To neuter or not?

eeinke

Wondering whether should neuter our 7 month old cross e.g. golden retriever /lab/collie.
What are the advantages of neutering ? When should one do it? Ideal time..

What is involved if we don't neuter the dog?....pls be realistic


Thank you

skooterblue2

Is it a dog or a bitch?
I have seen it done too early and they lose interest in life and gain weight.
Wait a year for the personality of the Dog to develop, then consider it.

A uncasterated dog depending on the breed will humping everything and will have loads of testerone, depending on the dog it could make them territorial or possibly aggressive. Castration would make them more docile.

Bitches, obviously you dont want the hassle of her coming in heat twice a year. Pups, drowning pups, complications with birth, finding homes for pups etc. sorted with one trip to the vets.

eeinke

Its a bitch, she's currently 7 months old now -golden retriever mix

irish_goat

Spaying helps reduce the risk of unwanted pregnancy(main reason), also prevents risk of ovarian cancers and pyometra. Also, having her in heat every 6 months can be a whole hassle with the blood and potentially having male dogs sniffing around/bothering her on walks.

The risk of weight gain can be managed with a healthy diet (which you'd be doing anyway for that breed).

DBB

The research indicates that larger breeds of dogs, both male and female, should not be neutered until they have reached full physical maturity, which will be at a minimum of 1 year of age.

tk123

My retriever girl didn’t go into heat until she was 13 months - they don’t all go into heat like clockwork every 6 months like people seem to think(!) I had agreed with my vet that I was going to wait and let her grow to minimise the risk of joint issues as my other guy had issues due to damaged growth plates closing too soon.. the heat itself was fine - I feel it’s a bit exaggerated to try and convince people to spay early like the 6 month thing? She was spayed a few months later at 17 months.

bertiebomber

allow her to have her first in season / in heat / period then neuter her

skooterblue2

bertiebomber wrote: »

allow her to have her first in season / in heat / period then neuter her

That sounds like the best idea.

DBB

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That sounds like the best idea.

Why?

DBB

I'm just thinking that although bigger breeds seem to have their first heat a little later than smaller breeds, they're usually still too young to spay if done following their first heat... even if they're done midway between first and anticipated 2nd heat.
So, both of my GSDs were just about 8 months coming into heat for their 1st time. Had they been spayed mid-cycle after their 1st heat, they still would have been only 11 months old.
The advice now is to leave larger breed males and females until they're at least 12 months old, to give them time to grow and to allow their growth plates to close, joints to mature etc... which quite often means leaving them until they're 18 months plus.
So, for me anyway, doing it after the first heat is too early. The risk of joint deformities is pretty high. Is it higher than the risk of mammary cancer by delaying it beyond the first heat? I don't know. I suspect it is, but perhaps someone who knows more than I can clarify!

Knine

My bitches are almost always spayed later in life, never any issues with mammary cancers etc. Recently one was done age 10.

I have noticed that my entire Dogs/Bitches are much livelier & far better coats/muscle tone than the altered dogs. The cruciate injuries & joint issues that we did have were always among the spayed/neutered dogs. They also age quicker/look older.

I now always leave my males entire.

Dubl07

I'm still an advocate for ovary sparing spaying. It leaves the hormones, prevents pregnancy, eliminates the risk of pyometra, reduces the risk of bone cancers. I got my girl's surgery done at 19 months. Not because of mess or other issues but because I didn't want puppies or pyo.

Okay, so there's a marginally higher risk of mammary cancer, but what dog doesn't love belly-rubs at every opportunity? Mine is a fiend for for them. I'd be much more likely to spot a mammary issue than a bone one at an early enough stage to treat successfully.

Knine

omicron wrote: »

The worst of both worlds in my opinion. You out them through the surgery so you don't have to deal with heats, but they can still get stump pyometras and mammary carcinoma.

Mammary carcinoma is 52 times more likely in an unneutered bitch versus one neutered

That's not to say everyone should neuter - but there's more to it than prevention of heat, and people like to blame everything that went wrong in their dog post neutering on then having been neutered.

All my bitches are done far later as they are show dogs, never any issues with cancer. My neutered cross breed is dying from cancer though.

There is no blaming, I have a lot of dogs & the facts are that any joint issues, cruciate injuries have been in the neutered.

The entire dogs also look much fitter & younger & run rings around the neutered.

tk123

Dubl07 wrote: »

Okay, so there's a marginally higher risk of mammary cancer, but what dog doesn't love belly-rubs at every opportunity? Mine is a fiend for for them. I'd be much more likely to spot a mammary issue than a bone one at an early enough stage to treat successfully.

This is an excellent point. I feel like joint issues and even arthritis can be downplayed / dismissed in some settings when they can have a major impact on quality of life. I’m very lucky with our vets - they do a lot of cruciate surgeries and also arthritis clinics so are very clued in and up to date compared to our old practice who still are practicing the 6 month rule.
Nobody is saying don’t ever spay - there is newer evidence which proves waiting prevents other types of cancers and conditions which needs to be taken into consideration.

anewme

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Bitches, obviously you dont want the hassle of her coming in heat twice a year. Pups, drowning pups, complications with birth, finding homes for pups etc. sorted with one trip to the vets.

Drowning pups?

Not sure what im reading to be honest. Anyone even suggesting drowning pups is not fit to own a dog.

skooterblue2

anewme wrote: »

Drowning pups?

Not sure what im reading to be honest. Anyone even suggesting drowning pups is not fit to own a dog.

I am suggesting that if you dont neuter the dog you may end up drowning pups, which is the same as sending them to the pound to be put down later. WTF are you supposed to with massive litters of pups every year?

What are you supposed to do with litters of pups of 8 or more, that no one wants? Yes it happens in the real world.

Knine

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am suggesting that if you dont neuter the dog you may end up drowning pups, which is the same as sending them to the pound to be put down later. WTF are you supposed to with massive litters of pups every year?

What are you supposed to do with litters of pups of 8 or more, that no one wants? Yes it happens in the real world.

Eh you could be a responsible dog owner & keep your dog under control when in heat. Not all of us are incapable of minding a bitch in heat

skooterblue2

Knine wrote: »

Eh you could be a responsible dog owner & keep your dog under control when in heat. Not all of us are incapable of minding a bitch in heat

Accidents happen, bitches get out, dogs are motivated to ride. I am saying it is better to be safe than sorry, if you arent will to do what is necessary in the aftermath get them neutered.

Knine

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Accidents happen, bitches get out, dogs are motivated to ride. I am saying it is better to be safe than sorry, if you arent will to do what is necessary in the aftermath get them neutered.

Accidents never happen in my house despite owning both stud dogs & bitches. It is never necessary to inflict cruelty on a dog/puppies because of your incompetence.

skooterblue2

Knine wrote: »

Accidents never happen in my house despite owning both stud dogs & bitches. It is never necessary to inflict cruelty on a dog/puppies because of your incompetence.

Well good for you! That is why it is not cruel to neuter them. I am not saying to drown unwanted pets, I am saying if you are not willing to do it then use the neutering option.

skooterblue2

DBB wrote: »

Why?

See reasons quoted above.

DBB

Yeah... I just don't feel it's always the best thing for the bitch's health to spay her after her first heat, for reasons I've already described. Particularly for larger breeds.
Having run a rescue for 20 years now, there are a couple of conclusions I've come to.
One is that the vast majority of "unwanted" pups come from bitches whose owners couldn't give a hoot about neutering. The people who are conscientious enough to get their dogs and bitches neutered for population control purposes are pretty much always the people who don't let their dogs wander about unsupervised anyway.
Second, I don't know of one single rescue who won't take in a litter of unwanted pups. Not one. There is always support for people who find themselves with a litter of pups they don't want. There's also the option of getting the recently mis-mated bitch a hormonal shot, the equivalent of a "morning after pill". There is absolutely no excuse for anybody, ever, to drown a litter of pups.

skooterblue2

DBB wrote: »

Second, I don't know of one single rescue who won't take in a litter of unwanted pups. Not one. There is always support for people who find themselves with a litter of pups they don't want. There's also the option of getting the recently mis-mated bitch a hormonal shot, the equivalent of a "morning after pill". There is absolutely no excuse for anybody, ever, to drown a litter of pups.

So what happens to litter of pups after a week with no takers? You put them down right? My point was to be responsible for your own dog so you would not be put in that position.
My nighbour who let her farm get out of control had to put on the brake on one week. They had 47 kitten baptised. Granted there were no rats on the farm but seriously lad, there has to be some responsible planning going on.

DBB

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So what happens to litter of pups after a week with no takers? You put them down right?

I have never seen a single rescue, ever, putting down healthy pups, no matter how long the pups were with them. In fact, rescues will tell you that there is rarely any difficulty in rehoming puppies.

Choc Chip

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So what happens to litter of pups after a week with no takers? You put them down right? My point was to be responsible for your own dog so you would not be put in that position.
My nighbour who let her farm get out of control had to put on the brake on one week. They had 47 kitten baptised. Granted there were no rats on the farm but seriously lad, there has to be some responsible planning going on.

A decision on neutering a dog who lives in my house is totally different to a decision on neutering a cat in a colony. Rescues or vets will work with farmers with colonies to operate TNR schemes and help rehome surplus kittens. I don't think there's a single legitimate excuse nowadays for drowning kittens.

And I'm speaking from experience - my elderly farming neighbours had a huge number of cats that are now under control after our vet worked with them on a TNR basis and put up signs in the practice to rehome kittens.

Graces7

Choc Chip wrote: »

A decision on neutering a dog who lives in my house is totally different to a decision on neutering a cat in a colony. Rescues or vets will work with farmers with colonies to operate TNR schemes and help rehome surplus kittens. I don't think there's a single legitimate excuse nowadays for drowning kittens.

And I'm speaking from experience - my elderly farming neighbours had a huge number of cats that are now under control after our vet worked with them on a TNR basis and put up signs in the practice to rehome kittens.

Thank you. I was actively involved with two separate TNR volunteer groups in West Cork. One arranged a " Fix it for a Fiver" scheme with two local vets with money earned in their thrift shop .

All my six cats are rescues and all safely neutered in time. As were two more I cared for in Kerry.

Also see " the cat lady of cape clear" for how to do this responsibly and caringly

tk123

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So what happens to litter of pups after a week with no takers? You put them down right? My point was to be responsible for your own dog so you would not be put in that position.
My nighbour who let her farm get out of control had to put on the brake on one week. They had 47 kitten baptised. Granted there were no rats on the farm but seriously lad, there has to be some responsible planning going on.

Pups are homed when they're 8 weeks..so I don't know what the 1 week thing is about. Your arguments are a bit farfetched and possibly not related to a pet situation. 99% of the posters here won't be in a situation were their dog will get out/is left roaming so there isn't going to be an accident. Like me their pets are never out of their sight so there won't be a chance that they'll discover their dog is pregnant and be left with a litter of pups. Responsible planning is what the OP is doing by asking when they should think of spaying their dog. The same way others who chose to leave them intact have taken into consideration what that entails.

skooterblue2

tk123 wrote: »

Pups are homed when they're 8 weeks..so I don't know what the 1 week thing is about. Your arguments are a bit farfetched and possibly not related to a pet situation. 99% of the posters here won't be in a situation were their dog will get out/is left roaming so there isn't going to be an accident. Like me their pets are never out of their sight so there won't be a chance that they'll discover their dog is pregnant and be left with a litter of pups. Responsible planning is what the OP is doing by asking when they should think of spaying their dog. The same way others who chose to leave them intact have taken into consideration what that entails.

The one week refer to their time in the pound. The other posters have taken the "drowning the pups" and taken it to some odd places. I gave my response to the OP to neuter the dog after a year. How can you keep on a dog 24/7. What if he gets out through the ditch or another dog hops over the wall?

Knine

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The one week refer to their time in the pound. The other posters have taken the "drowning the pups" and taken it to some odd places. I gave my response to the OP to neuter the dog after a year. How can you keep on a dog 24/7. What if he gets out through the ditch or another dog hops over the wall?

You should actually know where your dog is 24/7

He won't be able to get out through ditches etc if you have a secure area for him/her when you can't supervise 100%

DBB

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The one week refer to their time in the pound. The other posters have taken the "drowning the pups" and taken it to some odd places. I gave my response to the OP to neuter the dog after a year. How can you keep on a dog 24/7. What if he gets out through the ditch or another dog hops over the wall?

Ah, I think we've crossed wires a bit here. The county pounds can put dogs to sleep if they're not reclaimed by their owners after 5 days. If the dog is surrendered, they can, in theory, but put to sleep immediately. And, there's no doubt, a lot of dogs have died in the past because of this.
However, in the past 10 or 15 years, the majority of pounds have either voluntarily, or been forced into better welfare standards, and are rehoming dogs both directly, and via rescue groups who take dogs and pups from the pound, prepare them for rehoming (neutering, vaccinating, training perhaps), and rehome them. The days of the pound being a death sentence for unwanted puppies is well gone, because puppies are so very easy to rehome.

skooterblue2

Knine wrote: »

You should actually know where your dog is 24/7

He won't be able to get out through ditches etc if you have a secure area for him/her when you can't supervise 100%

That might be possible in a flat in the city but in the country on an acre living in a bungalow is a different thing. The only way you could secure that is with chain link fencing. For a motivated dog, it is never perfect. Tying a dog to post for the day isnt an option either.

muddypaws

I wonder how I manage to keep my dogs secure on 2.2 acres of land, and know where they are at all times? The youngest 2 are currently fascinated by the cattle that have appeared in the adjacent fields. But they can't get near to them because they are safely contained behind fencing.

Knine

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That might be possible in a flat in the city but in the country on an acre living in a bungalow is a different thing. The only way you could secure that is with chain link fencing. For a motivated dog, it is never perfect. Tying a dog to post for the day isnt an option either.

I think you missed my point. I said if you have a secure area otherwise you should not have a dog.

Dubl07

A friend has 26 acres. Around 5% is fenced securely to contain dogs and small children. The other land is also fenced securely to prevent cattle from wandering.

borderlinemeath

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That might be possible in a flat in the city but in the country on an acre living in a bungalow is a different thing. The only way you could secure that is with chain link fencing. For a motivated dog, it is never perfect. Tying a dog to post for the day isnt an option either.

I live in a bungalow in the country on an acre. I have 5 dogs so I have secure fencing. We've recently bought another 13 odd acres and an old house but we probably won't be moving there for another year or so because fencing a secure area and keeping our dogs safe is just as important as renovating the house.

bertiebomber

DBB wrote: »

Why?

the benefit of the hormones for growth

DBB

bertiebomber wrote: »

the benefit of the hormones for growth

Yes. Once again, I will say, that leaving bitches until only after their first heat to spay them, as advised in the post I asked "why?" to, is not necessarily long enough. The latest research backs this up.

Tangleytuftles

eeinke wrote: »

Wondering whether should neuter our 7 month old cross e.g. golden retriever /lab/collie.
What are the advantages of neutering ? When should one do it? Ideal time..

What is involved if we don't neuter the dog?....pls be realistic


Thank you

With a golden retriever, neutering them at all before 2 years can quadruple cancers and joint issues. UC Davis did a study on it, just Google golden retriever neuter study.
I personally don't neuter my dogs unless medically needed as a good owner should know where their dog is at all times and intact dog behaviour is hyped up more than it needs to be but they're behaviours untrained neutered dogs do too. Plus I'll take testicular cancer or mammary cancer over more dangerous cancers any day.
With golden retrievers and their proneness to cancer, I actually wouldn't neuter for as long as possible, bare minimum 2 years. Mammary cancer is easy to spot and feel(you should be feeling the nipples on any female dog for lumps neutered, or not at least monthly) and pyometra is far more common in older(7+) dogs.
If for some reason you can't control an intact bitch, I'd neuter now and save up thousands for cancer and joint issues and then prepare better before getting another dog. I also might be biased but I prefer males. Mostly because you don't need to neuter them unless they get testicular cancer which is the easiest cancer to spot and feel imo.

Infographic below is from puppy culture and its a good way to visualise the pros and cons.

Kerny21

Dubl07 wrote: »

I'm still an advocate for ovary sparing spaying. It leaves the hormones, prevents pregnancy, eliminates the risk of pyometra, reduces the risk of bone cancers. I got my girl's surgery done at 19 months. Not because of mess or other issues but because I didn't want puppies or pyo.

Okay, so there's a marginally higher risk of mammary cancer, but what dog doesn't love belly-rubs at every opportunity? Mine is a fiend for for them. I'd be much more likely to spot a mammary issue than a bone one at an early enough stage to treat successfully.

Hi, I'd love to know where you got it done! It's something I'd be really interested in for my rotten girl, she's coming on 5 months now. I know it will greatly reduce her risk of cancers in the future.

boomerang

skooterblue2 wrote: »

My nighbour who let her farm get out of control had to put on the brake on one week. They had 47 kitten baptised.

That is sick.