A problem son

boetstark

Good morning boardies. I am looking for people's thoughts on a family matter.
We have an only son who is 17. He has never wanted for anything down through the years.
We moved him to a private school from junior cert as he was doing badly and getting in trouble in previous school.
He is now in l6th year but still refuses to do assignments ,study etc. He has managed to get into the wrong sort of company at this school also. It is at the stage where his behaviour is causing health issues to myself , as I have a heart condition.
He doesn't drink or stay out late , just stays all day on xbox or Instagram.
What should we do , is it extreme to cut him loose and ask him to leave. He will be 18 next Feb and will definitely flop his leaving cert. No ambition and gives smart answers when we confront him.
Please please any suggestions.

spurious

What does he want to do?
Does it involve needing a Leaving Cert. and doing the LC at 17/18?

boetstark

spurious wrote: »

What does he want to do?
Does it involve needing a Leaving Cert. and doing the LC at 17/18?

Everything we ask , all he says is i haven't a clue. That is ok as I wasn't sure either at his age.
But without a leaving cert he is doomed. It is such a kick in the gut that we pay nearly 7k a year , and he is content to take take the whole time.

shesty

Well......have you asked him what is going on?In a non-confrontational way?Thoughts on life, so to speak?(I do know the response you will most likely get but have you tried it in a way that doesn't involve a row).Maybe not 'what do you want to do." But more "are you planning on sitting the LC?" Maybe for starters?

I admit after a certain point I wouldn't be funding gaming or devices etc. for a start myself....

Spanish Eyes

Have you spoken to the school? They might have some strategies to help you out. I'm sure he is not the first lad to go through a period of disengagement like this.

I am a bit surprised the school has not given feedback on his lack of completion of assignments etc. Talk to them first and try to find out if they can help out.

Valresnick

It’s sad to say but back in my day my father would have given me a serious kick up the *ole. That old ways seem to be gone now. Anyway, If he doesn’t want to do anything yet wants to play computer games and Instsgram then once he turns 18 he should have to pay for them himself. If not cut it off. Perhaps consider a career in the Defence Forces too ? Just a thought !! Again once he’s 18 he’s an adult and you’ve really done all you can do at that stage. Try paint a picture of life once he passes 30. No Job, no prospects, road to nowhere etc. The years fly by too ! Instsgram won’t save you then.

Cushtie

boetstark wrote: »

He has never wanted for anything down through the years.
Please please any suggestions.

I hate to sound like an old fogie but that might be some of the problem there. Might be time for a bit of tough love.

Sardonicat

There us no compulsion to fund xbox and mobile phones prior to 18 either.

Has he a gaming addiction? It's a thing. I have a now 19yo nephew who flunked his LC the year before last and stays in his room all day gaming with his meals being brought up to him on a tray.

Talk to him. The LC isn't the be all and end all. There are other routes to a career and they don't all have to start at 17/18. But he has to do something, even if it's something he's not all that keen on. An etb course. Anything. Get a bit of structure into his life and remove the xbox if you have to. I'd be more worried about him not developing socially and not having any interest beyond a screen than I would about the LC.

Augme

boetstark wrote: »

But without a leaving cert he is doomed.

There are plenty of people who flipped a leaving cert and have been very successful. Not everyone is capable of study in the way the leaving cert is designed. Not everyone is capable of learning is that manner and not everyone needs to be. The leaving cert is the most over rated exam a person will ever do.

You said he isn't out drinking or out late at night, sounds like pretty well behaved 17 year then. Tbh you should consider yourself very lucky in that regard.

It must be a huge amount of pressure for him knowing that if he tries to do well in the leaving cert but fails he will be a "flop" in your eyes. You seem to be basing all of your son's value and worth in how successful he is in the leaving cert, does he not amount to anything else in your eyes?

beveragelady

Turn of wifi, confiscate games. Ask the school about putting him on monitoring report. If he goes a full week without any homework problems or behavioural problems then there's a possibility of weekend gaming. If his study/behaviour improves in general then you might relax and allow limited evening gaming.

These are obvious steps to take and I'm sure you've thought of them. If you're worried that he'll lose it completely if he doesn't have internet access so you're unwilling to take these steps then you have an even bigger problem than you thought.

Even with Covid plenty of young people are working weekend jobs. A brief taste of being at the bottom of the foodchain in a workplace often works wonders to focus the mind on education.

He doesn't have to do a LC, but he can't be allowed to continue like this either. He needs to understand that straight away.

Mrnew

boetstark wrote: »

Everything we ask , all he says is i haven't a clue. That is ok as I wasn't sure either at his age.
But without a leaving cert he is doomed. It is such a kick in the gut that we pay nearly 7k a year , and he is content to take take the whole time.

It was your choice to pay 7k a year so you can't blame him for that. He doesn't need a LC if he goes to do anapprenticeship. Bit over the top to want to kick your child out for being on technology when he is not actually doing anything bad. You need to get a grip and realise what actual bad children do

boetstark

Thanks everybody for the kind and helpful responses.
Had a chat again this evening he is doing homework for past 3 hours , feast or a famine.
He is a good boy really but xbox / ps4 are ruining lots of kids. He was a promising swimmer and rugby player but we allowed him to give them up.
I'm sure he will find his way in life eventually it is up to us to support and love him.

Valresnick

boetstark wrote: »

Thanks everybody for the kind and helpful responses.
Had a chat again this evening he is doing homework for past 3 hours , feast or a famine.
He is a good boy really but xbox / ps4 are ruining lots of kids. He was a promising swimmer and rugby player but we allowed him to give them up.
I'm sure he will find his way in life eventually it is up to us to support and love him.

Kids grow out of these things and most end up fine. All parents panic when they are this age. Most will stop doing it once they mature and it will be all good. Best of luck

TP_CM

Just to note that some kids aren't academic. They learn by using their body and movement is more their forte than studying. If he was good at sports then maybe the defence forces, as another posted suggested, is a good option. Or a trade, or something outside of the study world. Who knows.

I come from an academic family but one cousin hated school the whole way through. He is now a truck driver and a successful welder, and while that's different to the rest of us, he is very happy with his life. There are a 1000 different ways to live a life, we need to trust that if we love our kids they will find a way.

Water John

Don't actually know any 'spoilt ' child who are wasters. It might require a third party to make any intervention, parents intervention are usually the last option to achieve a positive result.

ThewhiteJesus

It’s not easy at that age, I can promise you one thing, cutting him loose as you put it would be the worst mistake you ever made imo, let him grow up a bit if he fails the leaving no big deal he could do it again, try not to let it worry you so much it’s his path and he’ll grow up in time

Iodine1

The best education some of these guys get is to work in a crap job getting grief from bosses, customers etc etc trying to earn a pittance. However maybe he is struggling with school work and is opting out rather than admitting it? Paying big money to a good school won't help if it's help he needs, as they tend to be very academically focused.

Stihl waters

boetstark wrote: »

He has managed to get into the wrong sort of company at this school also..

Ah the "old fell into bad company" mantra

It always surprises me when I hear parents say this, it's like theres no way their little darlings are the bad company they fear so much, maybe it's he that is the problem and not the other kids

PauloMN

boetstark wrote: »

Thanks everybody for the kind and helpful responses.
Had a chat again this evening he is doing homework for past 3 hours , feast or a famine.
He is a good boy really but xbox / ps4 are ruining lots of kids. He was a promising swimmer and rugby player but we allowed him to give them up.
I'm sure he will find his way in life eventually it is up to us to support and love him.

Stick with it, keep talking to him, it's an awkward age as they think they know it all but we know they know f**k all really.

I'd make it very clear that his behaviours is causing you health issues. That's even more important than his LC or future. He has to understand and appreciate that first and foremost.

Xbox.... I've been there with my son, they are so addictive. What I would say is don't go in all guns blazing and rip the thing out of his room. I put a block on the router after midnight so it wouldn't work, as some nights he was there at 2 or 3 in the morning still on the feckin thing. He was pissed off for about a week and then just dealt with it. Amazing how kids adapt to a new normal. I'm still not overly happy about how much time he spends on it, but it's gradually getting less (he's started college now).

Any chance of him getting a weekend job? Difficult I know at the best of times, even harder at the moment with Covid-19. But it really helped our son appreciate time and money. Buys his own stuff now (games etc.) and gives up "mammy tax" out of his income, which is his contribution towards day to day expenses. Then saves a good bit of it.

Would be good if he had a goal like saving for a car or something like that. Keep at him in a nice way, sit down and chat to him. It's really tiring sometimes as you get either no reaction or a negative reaction, but the 1 or 2 times out of 10 where you get some positivity back make it really really worth it.

blindsider

boetstark wrote: »

Thanks everybody for the kind and helpful responses.
Had a chat again this evening he is doing homework for past 3 hours , feast or a famine.
He is a good boy really but xbox / ps4 are ruining lots of kids. He was a promising swimmer and rugby player but we allowed him to give them up.
I'm sure he will find his way in life eventually it is up to us to support and love him.

I completely agree.

It is also up to you to guide him, mentor him and help him to be the best person he can be - morally, socially and 'occupationally' (I don't want to limit anyone by saying 'professionally').

IMOm parents have a moral obligation to guide their children through the (sometimes) turbulent adolescent years - and unfortunately, some choices made now, in experimenting with maturity, have consequences far beyond adolescence.

Would your son consider doing an apprenticeship? There are a growing number out there, in trades, engineering and insurance....he might well need Leaving Cert though....

Best of luck!

Water John

OP this article might be a consolation and a little help to you;
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/oct/10/seven-tips-for-parenting-teen-boys-nagging-them-is-like-shouting-into-a-void

DesperateDan

Is he creative? Ken Robinson might help here https://youtu.be/NRnToFZQQP4

beachhead

boetstark wrote: »

Good morning boardies. I am looking for people's thoughts on a family matter.
We have an only son who is 17. He has never wanted for anything down through the years.
We moved him to a private school from junior cert as he was doing badly and getting in trouble in previous school.
He is now in l6th year but still refuses to do assignments ,study etc. He has managed to get into the wrong sort of company at this school also. It is at the stage where his behaviour is causing health issues to myself , as I have a heart condition.
He doesn't drink or stay out late , just stays all day on xbox or Instagram.
What should we do , is it extreme to cut him loose and ask him to leave. He will be 18 next Feb and will definitely flop his leaving cert. No ambition and gives smart answers when we confront him.
Please please any suggestions.

Go to the school and ask what reports his teachers have made.Sounds like a serious withdrawal from active life.Apart from teenage hormones it could present conditions i.e. future prospects or bullying.

spurious

If he really doesn't know what he wants to do, assure him that there is no need to choose something straight after LC.
Perhaps a few years in the world of low paid work might help him decide for/against a few things?

23 for the mature student route may seem an eternity away from him, but it's not really.

I would try and break the 'all day inside on the computer' habit, if only for a half hour walk. Staying indoors, willingly or not, is not great for mental health.

randylonghorn

boetstark wrote: »

Everything we ask, all he says is i haven't a clue.

This may be a lot of the problem. It can be very demoralising at that age to have no clue what you want to do when everyone around you is talking about going to X college, needing Y points for Z course, applying for AGS / army / an apprenticeship, whatever it may be. It feels like you're the only one struggling to figure out a direction, and everyone else has it sussed (this is unlikely to be the reality, but it's often how it seems), and it's easier to bury your head in the gaming world (in his case) because that's an escape from a reality where he's not coping - as he probably sees it.

Add to this that at that age they're struggling to figure out what "adult" means for them in a broader sense, that this year has been weird for everyone and especially for that age group, and even possibly a touch of gaming addiction - though I'd bet on it being more escapism than anything else.

I'd be inclined to encourage him to concentrate more on short-term goals than long-term goals for the moment. Stress that it's fine not to know what he wants to do right now, that you didn't at that age, that lots of people don't, that many of those who are so sure of where they're aiming right now will change their minds, maybe more than once. That's life. It's not always easy or straightforward.

All that said, I wouldn't disagree with the idea of switching off the router at a certain hour either ....

JustAThought

He has been doing badly and dossing at both schools so this has been a problem for years
now. Is he dyslexic? Does he have a learning or concentration problem? What have his grades been like subject by subject since he started secondary? Is he consistently getting low or dreadful grades in everything and bottom of all
classes ir does he have spurts or good and bad subjects? Worth getting all is report cards
from both schools out and tracking the grades, comments and subjects. All the trachers can’t be wrong.

As regards you enabling him the xbox, iphone, and wifi access has to stop. If he has no access, facility and outlets for his online dossing he can’t be distracted by them. You are his parent and finamcial controller amd your scope for impacting him and influencing his future is still there. As for
the suggestion that he be allowed doss for another 4 years until he is 22
and them stay at home for another 4 or 5 -
he will not survive past first year in college unless he passes an exam or shows up & works - even private colleges have standards.

Maybe get him to do chores for his privileges and cost that into his access to x box for a hour. An hour of cleaning windows and mirrors or weeding or digging in the garden - not faffing about dusting or doing dishes. It sounds like he is spoilt rotten and has no sense that the endless
cash or easy life will ever end.

Has he any sense of money or work? Ask him how he will buy clothes or be able
to go to clubs or have holidays with his friends if he is unemployable without a leaving cert & that he cannot live at home without a job. Will he stack shelves? Tesco has a programme
for people with inly the JC to stack shelves and
work in the stockroom - is that his plan for
his life? How long will his friends stick with him if that is the level he is stuck at for life?

People have talked about being an ordinary level entrant in the army but that is competitive and requires a leaving cert - and they don’t take in lazy bed heads who cannot follow instruction or take discipline. It sounds like a socially and financially motivated reality check is due form him - spell it out and check out his past work and figures - maybe there is something medically wrong with him - there are few other excuses.

JustAThought

PS

Supervised study or homework - no
music, no tv, no smartphones, no social
media or texting friends. Books and supervision. He clearly is not functioning when left to himself.

And have you or the school done study techniques with him? A 7k school should have - or you can. But don’t leave him to do it alone anymore - he is clearly not able to
do
it himself properly, or not bothered/ motivated or worried of any consequences. You need to show him you mean business by taking away his toys, teach him how to study / work and then lean on him! Otherwise he will be lost.


People say here that you dont need a traditional education or LC for life but that - or hard work elsewhere is the majority pathway to success. Work being the denominating factor.

ablelocks

just happened across this thread (by searching for walking routes?)

another option for kids that really needs to be explored is apprenticeships - there is such a variety now across a range of sectors and industries and for a lot of kids, this may be a better route.

college is not for everyone, and with the way college life and courses have been changed by covid, I'm not sure it's going to be the same experience for a number of years anyway

I've asked my daughter in 5th year to research and seriously consider it - the way i see it, you do your apprenticeship, work a few years, figure yourself out and then do a third-level course part-time, which could be paid or subsidised by the employer. Within a few years, apprenticeships are going to be viewed just as positively as third-level qualifications are (were?)

apprenticeship programmes

onlinemathsgr

It might be worth getting him a part time job or even one in the holidays so he can see the value of school.

A kid in the school i teach in, who was a great kid, got "given" a job by his father in the summer in a meat factory, he said upon his return to school that he wanted to do well in his leaving so he could get a decent job - so perhaps some exposure to that might help.

A promising swimmer and rugby player, and now he plays xbox all day, all that excess energy has to go somewhere, a good walk in the woods or beach with you might do wonders for him.

Any gfriend/bfriend/bullying problems that you might need to look into?

Feel free to PM me if you need some more advise

cheers

Mariset

Perhaps he has lost his confidence. He may fear that he's going to fail anyway.

quote="boetstark;114900582"]Good morning boardies. I am looking for people's thoughts on a family matter.
We have an only son who is 17. He has never wanted for anything down through the years.
We moved him to a private school from junior cert as he was doing badly and getting in trouble in previous school.
He is now in l6th year but still refuses to do assignments ,study etc. He has managed to get into the wrong sort of company at this school also. It is at the stage where his behaviour is causing health issues to myself , as I have a heart condition.
He doesn't drink or stay out late , just stays all day on xbox or Instagram.
What should we do , is it extreme to cut him loose and ask him to leave. He will be 18 next Feb and will definitely flop his leaving cert. No ambition and gives smart answers when we confront him.
Please please any suggestions.[/quote]

Red Hare

Whether or not the op unplugs the internet or kicks the son in the behind or not , or pays for private school or not , it seems like a normal teenage scenario to me.

Be grateful that he is not locked all the time, locked up, violent, suicidal. There are worse afflictions than xbox and lack of interest in school. Its normal for teenagers. Best wishes 🙂

rainbowtrout

A lot of people have suggested that the school should be keeping an eye on him. The OP said that it was a private school which is 7k a year. The son is going to a grind school. They care about the 500+ points students, those are the ones they promote, they won't really care if he does the work or not, he is a bum on a seat that helps to pay the bills, they won't be using his results to promote the school. Students in those places are doing 12 hours work a day. He is of no concern to them.

Time for the OP to be the parent, take away the phone and the xbox, even if he doesn't knuckle down to doing some work he can do other things such as going out and getting some exercise or help out around the house. Someone posted earlier that at least it's not drugs or alcohol, I see enough students who are completely feckless who spend all day from the time they get home until the early hours playing computer games. It's not healthy.

onlinemathsgr

Where does OP say their son is in a grinds school?

rainbowtrout wrote: »

A lot of people have suggested that the school should be keeping an eye on him. The OP said that it was a private school which is 7k a year. The son is going to a grind school. They care about the 500+ points students, those are the ones they promote, they won't really care if he does the work or not, he is a bum on a seat that helps to pay the bills, they won't be using his results to promote the school. Students in those places are doing 12 hours work a day. He is of no concern to them.

Time for the OP to be the parent, take away the phone and the xbox, even if he doesn't knuckle down to doing some work he can do other things such as going out and getting some exercise or help out around the house. Someone posted earlier that at least it's not drugs or alcohol, I see enough students who are completely feckless who spend all day from the time they get home until the early hours playing computer games. It's not healthy.

rainbowtrout

onlinemathsgr wrote: »

Where does OP say their son is in a grinds school?

The only private schools in the country are grind schools. They typically charge 7k a year which is what the OP is paying.

onlinemathsgr

Blackrock College
Belvedre college
Clongowes
Newbridge College
Roscrea College
Wesley
St Marys etc etc etc are they grinds schools?

thanks

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The only private schools in the country are grind schools. They typically charge 7k a year which is what the OP is paying.

pgj2015

Has he ever been to a GOOD career guidance counselor? I have used them in the past and they are great in my opinion. find a good one and pay whatever they want, the one I used was free and made me realize what I wanted to do for a living.

rainbowtrout

onlinemathsgr wrote: »

Blackrock College
Belvedre college
Clongowes
Newbridge College
Roscrea College
Wesley
St Marys etc etc etc are they grinds schools?

thanks

Nope. But they are not private. They are fee paying public schools which are funded by the state. Now maybe get off your high horse.

onlinemathsgr

Here i was only asking a question is all, cos I genuinely didnt know, maybe when i get off my high horse that i wasnt on, you might get some manners

thanks

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Nope. But they are not private. They are fee paying public schools which are funded by the state. Now maybe get off your high horse.

Red Hare

boetstark wrote: »

Good morning boardies. I am looking for people's thoughts on a family matter.....
...... No ambition and gives smart answers when we confront him.
Please please any suggestions.

The OP is looking for people's thoughts on a family matter and is not looking for smart answers as may have happened above in some instances.

Adult responsibilities and the world of work will mature the OP's son far more than any school regardless of school type.He obviously doesn't like school - that is not unusual.
Don't take smart answers from him. Let him know that he is well reared, that his parents have the finest of manners as do/did his grandparents and that you would like to see those manners, thank you very much.

Geuze

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The only private schools in the country are grind schools. They typically charge 7k a year which is what the OP is paying.

Off topic, but note that all schools are privately-owned, except the VEC/ETB schools.

Most schools are financed by the State, but not provided by the State.

paw patrol

maybe he just hates school and doesn't fit in or fit in to the structured learning.



my eldest fella was like that , I tried everything carrots & sticks
It hit me when he was doing his JC as I was studying too at the time and observed his study , he just wasn't wired for schools and exams.


Like your son he didn't know what he wanted and seemed to have no interests beyond his phone.

I put him in the LCA module instead of the LC in school as I figure the 2 years of study prior to LC would be a waste and he'd only barely get a pass . the change was immense he is thriving now.
He is out with a fella doing a trade as part of his work experience in LCA for the 2nd year and has been offered an apprenticeship with him too when he finishes 6th year next june.

The change in my son outside of school is great too he has more belief in himself and is better company and all the good stuff.

I guess what i'm saying is , it mightn't be your son is the problem but the structure of school.
The days of the pre historic ireland where you need a leaving cert is long gone.

Glinda

I think he's just being an immature kid. God knows lots of us were that at 17.

Appealing to his better nature isn't working because he isn't mature enough to see that the far-off rewards of a good leaving cert outweigh the immediate rewards of lazy days doing what he wants.

I agree with those who counsel against ratcheting up the conflict with him - it might make you feel like you're doing something, but it will make your house a fairly horrible place, and won't necessarily make him any more able to do something he's clearly struggling with at the moment.

Teenagers struggle with deferred gratification. If it was me, I'd move the reward very firmly into the near future. I did this with one of my children - nothing was working, not threats to move school, stop them going out, withdrawing pocket money, pleading with them to think of their future.

Eventually a couple of months out from the exams I realised I had to get a bit radical. I sat them down and promised a hundred euro for every A grade, fifty for a B, 25 for a C in the upcoming exam. It turned the whole exam from something they were doing for somebody else into a way they could get lots of money.

Best four hundred quid I ever spent. (Obviously you have to calibrate for possible grades, if i'd done the same for my other child I'd have been bankrupt).

I appreciate how lucky we were to be able to deploy bribery as a blunt instrument, and that option isn't available to everyone, but it works like a dream. I am making the leap from you being able to afford private school fees.

My child stuck his head down into the books, smiling away to himself about how he was putting one over on me and his Dad by getting excellent grades. Bless. He used the money to buy a much-wanted new phone.

binhead

Hi OP,

I'm going to recommend a specific college course, it does require a Leaving Cert but not high grades.

You said he used to swim so that will help. Now he may have no interest in this area whatsoever but if you can pique his interest at all then he might be motivated to pass the LC.

Outdoor Adventure Management is an adventure sports management course that runs in Coláiste Dhulaigh, it's a 3 year HND and you can leave with a wide range of instructorships and a HND in adventure management. It may sound random but trust me, it can be life changing.

Its based on Experiential Learning so it really suits the students that might not be best suited to traditional school structure / rote learning.

In some ways first year is like a boot camp but of really fun adventure sports.

Link here to the course..
https://www.cdcfe.ie/courses/outdoor-adventure-management-shackleton/

There are several other colleges offering similar courses and it is my area of work /study so if you want any advice on any of them feel free to message me.

Life is tough at that age but being immersed in the outdoors and being pushed out of your comfort zone can make a huge difference.

Good luck!