How common is it to be turned off by the prospect of marriage/kids?

mr_fegelien

In the last few decades, women have been liberated (at least in the Western World) to the extent that there's generally no social obligation to get married and have kids. Many more women than ever are choosing a childfree/husband-free lifestyle.

I wonder though about men. How many men are completely put of by the idea of marriage/kids? I'm only in my early 20s but ever since I was 13, I swore never to get married or have kids.

For me the main reason is financial. I'm in college and struggling. I know the job market has become much more competitive for millenials/Gen Z'ers in the last 50 years and I don't think I can balance struggling in a job/finding housing while trying to raise a kid for 18+ years.

I don't want to be lonely so I'd probably get into a relationship with a girl but definitely not marriage. I know a few men who have been absolutely destroyed in family court again in terms of finances. Having to pay 50% of their wage towards maintenance for their kids/spouse whom they'll never see/rarely see. Also looking at worse examples like Jeff Bezos and the amount of money his wife will get in a divorce makes me shake my head in bewilderment as to why he even got married in the first place.

440Hertz

On the other side of it I know several couples who’ve had marriages break down, got divorced and did so in a totally civilised and amicable way. It’s not always a big drama.

A lot of marriages are very balanced and mutually supportive. You’re painting a rather grim view of life as a couple.

If you have kids you’re responsible for them. That’s just life and it’s not a bad thing.

Also there are loads of people totally happy to have kids. There are people in straight and gay couples who can’t have kids easily who go out of their way to overcome those hurdles too and are very happy about raising a family. Others are delighted to not have kids.

Having kids isn’t for everyone and I don’t think there’s any answer to your question.

It’s your life. You have your own views, priorities, objectives, hopes, dreams and what makes you happy may differ from me and we both may differ from someone else.

So I guess all I’m saying is having kids can be brilliant, not stressful at all, rewarding and great fun, or it can be a total drag.

Some people don’t care about money. Others do.
Some are very family oriented. Others aren’t.

You’re asking for answers that nobody can give.

Many things will change in your life as you grow older, Mr fegelien.

Starting boards threads about all of the joys that are ahead of you won't give you the wisdom of experience in advance

I wouldn't worry about the misfortune of Jeff bezos ever striking you, in any case.

Padre_Pio

Firstly, a lot of your examples are extremes. Extremely bad divorces, divorce settlements, expenses etc.
This is just the risk you take, same as any major life choice and in general, marriage is very high reward, low risk. Hopefully you end up with a loving family.

Secondly, Women have exactly the same worries and responsibilities and hopefully, if you do get married, kids etc, you and your partner will be a team, tackling these challenges together. You're not in it alone.

Finally, you're not at the stage if your life where these things matter. You're in college, why would you begin to think about marriage and kids. Far more pressing things to worry about. Exams, job, money, career, progression etc. In 5 years, when you're hopefully more financially stable, and maybe in a relationship, marriage and kids will start to become more like the next step in life.

It's weird seeing your friends turn from immature lads into father's and husband's, but you'll start thinking "f*ck it, if he can do it, I'll have no bother"

Ekerot

The divorce rate in Ireland is nearly 15% if I'm reading this statistic here correctly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography

Personally marriage sounds like a pain, or a "Misunderstanding between two idiots" as my father would put it.
That and I hate weddings, or more specifically Irish weddings since the few I've been to feel like some warped Barbie fantasy of the brides.
25000 for a dinner dance and half cooked Yorkshire Puddings? No way José! I'd rather just get the marriage cert and go to a restaurant afterwards with my beloved.

august12

Ekerot wrote: »

The divorce rate in Ireland is nearly 15% if I'm reading this statistic here correctly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_demography

Personally marriage sounds like a pain, or a "Misunderstanding between two idiots" as my father would put it.
That and I hate weddings, or more specifically Irish weddings since the few I've been to feel like some warped Barbie fantasy of the brides.
25000 for a dinner dance and half cooked Yorkshire Puddings? No way José! I'd rather just get the marriage cert and go to a restaurant afterwards with my beloved.

This has to be the funniest post today!!!

Eire Go Brach

Your still young. You might change. Lot can happen.

As an atheist. For me that’s how we live on. Through our kids. Just like every other animal on this planet. Another way to look at it.

Padre_Pio

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

Your still young. You might change. Lot can happen.

As an atheist. For me that’s how we live on. Through our kids. Just like every other animal on this planet. Another way to look at it.

That's a weird statement to make.
If atheism reduces having children down to a simple biological act, no different than animals, then I may start going back to mass.

What about atheism stops you having children because you and your partner wish to have them, to watch them grow up and experience the world, and to have lifelong companions?

SeaFields

I know quite a few lads that swore, in their early twenties, they'd never have kids. They are now in their thirties and absolutely loving being fathers.

I'm not married nor a dad.
I'd make a poor parent.

I've abstained from the poll.

Mongfinder General

More and more people are just going their own way - it ain't worth putting up with a lifetime of compromise if you're not happy or happier being single.
If you do ever get married - have a plan b. Make sure you've got fcuk all to your name on paper. Easier said than done but still doable. At least if you end up in the family law court you can cry poverty.

PsychoPete

I have zero interest in getting married or having children and it's the same for herself. I can't see that changing for me any time soon

Eire Go Brach

Padre_Pio wrote: »

That's a weird statement to make.
If atheism reduces having children down to a simple biological act, no different than animals, then I may start going back to mass.

What about atheism stops you having children because you and your partner wish to have them, to watch them grow up and experience the world, and to have lifelong companions?

Ok exclude the atheism bit. If I lived my life without procreating. I would feel it’s a bit of a waste. It’s just how I would feel. We only have one life. Just do whatever makes you happy. I have 2 kids and have no real interest in marriage.

antimatterx

Sorry, Bezos didn't lose money, his wife got her share. They quit their jobs, moved to Seattle and set up Amazon together.

Also she settled for 50% of what she could have got.

El Gato De Negocios

mr_fegelien wrote: »

In the last few decades, women have been liberated (at least in the Western World) to the extent that there's generally no social obligation to get married and have kids. Many more women than ever are choosing a childfree/husband-free lifestyle.

I wonder though about men. How many men are completely put of by the idea of marriage/kids? I'm only in my early 20s but ever since I was 13, I swore never to get married or have kids.

For me the main reason is financial. I'm in college and struggling. I know the job market has become much more competitive for millenials/Gen Z'ers in the last 50 years and I don't think I can balance struggling in a job/finding housing while trying to raise a kid for 18+ years.

I don't want to be lonely so I'd probably get into a relationship with a girl but definitely not marriage. I know a few men who have been absolutely destroyed in family court again in terms of finances. Having to pay 50% of their wage towards maintenance for their kids/spouse whom they'll never see/rarely see. Also looking at worse examples like Jeff Bezos and the amount of money his wife will get in a divorce makes me shake my head in bewilderment as to why he even got married in the first place.

Are you studying psychology?

Because pretty much every single thread you start is related to relationships or psychology.

Seems like you are just farming for a course rather then just being an oddball the cursory glance at your posts would indicate.

eviltwin

Married 12 years and have two kids. Personally I could have left the marriage bit out but the laws here don't give the same rights to cohabiting couples so it made sense to make it legal. A good relationship is a great place to be, I'm blessed I knew my partner as a friend for a long time before we hooked up and I think that gave us a good base. 25 years together next year and I still wouldn't want to be with anyone else. Kids are hard work but don't stay kids forever. My eldest is mid 20's and we have a great relationship as adults, that gets me though the hump of dealing with my youngest.

Dickie10

37 now and absolutley no gra happening at all for either a relationship or kids. lockdown was tough not going out socialising as i may have hooked up with the right person if they came along, kind of gone from that routine now and no intrest or longing for it now at all. but kids or marriage absolutley scares the heck out of me yes.

pwurple

The thing about kids is, they aren’t kids for long. And while that baby bit can be quite boring and annoying, your own offspring are the funniest / most interesting human beings you’ve ever met once they start to talk and have the craic.

Deep Thought

so.. I have seen many of the OPs posts.

OP, you are always asking about this kinda stuff....

Its time to stop asking the forums and get out and experience it

We are not you...nobody on here really cares what you do, we all voice an opinion but dont care what you do with that advice

so, to reiterate, my advice, get off the forums and find the answers in real life

Dickie10

i think its a good topic , something you dont here much about, like are men looked down upon in society for staying marriage free, child free and maybe even relationship free. i know i have never been in a serious relationship in my life and im 37. i would think its not that uncommon i know 3 friends the same all late 30s

Irish_rat

Kids and marriage is great but you have to pay for that gratitude for 15+ years.

Personally, I want to be financially independent in the next 5 years.

Padre_Pio

Irish_rat wrote: »

Kids and marriage is great but you have to pay for that gratitude for 15+ years.

Personally, I want to be financially independent in the next 5 years.

Sometimes 25+ years, per child :pac:

Irish_rat

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Sometimes 25+ years, per child :pac:

Yeah and that means you are tied to working until you retire an old man. Just my 2 cents

Padre_Pio

Irish_rat wrote: »

Yeah and that means you are tied to working until you retire an old man. Just my 2 cents

Well, they are your kids. You should love them unconditionally and want them to succeed. Many of us got where we are off the hard work and effort of our parents.

sportsfan90

I'm not one of those who swore to never have kids, tbh in my early 20s I never really thought about it a whole lot.

I'm now 30 and while I'm thinking about it a bit more, I'm still not edging any closer to thinking I'd like to be a dad some day. Hopefully I'll have nieces & nephews, but the want to ever have some of my own still is pretty much non-existant.

I guess being a man I have the luxury of not having the body-clock issues to the same extent that women have once they near 40.

Dickie10

still huge amount of bachelors older men around my area is it still common in ireland

Galwayguy35

I was supposed to get married years ago, I called it off because I couldn't say for definite if I wanted to have kids and while it was probably one of the hardest things I've had to do it was the right decision.

My ex is now with someone who could give her the marriage and kids which she wanted to have.

I think some people go ahead with a wedding despite having doubts about the whole thing and it just leads to heartache for both parties down the line.

FHFM50

sportsfan90 wrote: »

I'm not one of those who swore to never have kids, tbh in my early 20s I never really thought about it a whole lot.

I'm now 30 and while I'm thinking about it a bit more, I'm still not edging any closer to thinking I'd like to be a dad some day. Hopefully I'll have nieces & nephews, but the want to ever have some of my own still is pretty much non-existant.

I guess being a man I have the luxury of not having the body-clock issues to the same extent that women have once they near 40.

Not true, as we age the quality of our sperm decreases and the chances of a child having mental health issues such as Autism or Schizophrenia becomes much more likely.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/children-with-older-dads-at-greater-mental-illness-risk/#:~:text=Males%20may%20have%20the%20advantage,disorders%2C%20especially%20autism%20and%20schizophrenia.

fineso.mom

You're 'worse' example of Jeff Bezos doesn't add much to your argument. He didn't just give her 38billion of his money. They divided up their assests,he gets to keep 75%of their Amazon stock and voting control over her 4% stake in the company.
They started the company together and have agreed how they want to divide their assets. How is this a 'worse example'?
What do you think should happen when people divorce?

Wibbs

FHFM50 wrote: »

Not true, as we age the quality of our sperm decreases and the chances of a child having mental health issues such as Autism or Schizophrenia becomes much more likely.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/children-with-older-dads-at-greater-mental-illness-risk/#:~:text=Males%20may%20have%20the%20advantage,disorders%2C%20especially%20autism%20and%20schizophrenia.

Actually the more you dig into that it's not nearly so clear cut. Take the three times higher! stat. No numbers given. If the risk of something is in ideal circumstances 1 in 100, then 3 in 100 is "three times higher" but it's still low risk. Similar goes on with regard to an increase in birth defects and the like with older mothers. Yes the risk goes up, but not nearly to the degree some scaremongering suggests. It also depends on the fitness and biological age of the men(and women). All things being equal a pre-diabetic overweight 35 year old with a hash habit is going to be producing worse swimmers than a fit as a butcher's dog 45 year old who does marathons for the craic.

But Sportsfan still has a point, the fact is a 50, 60, even 70 year old bloke can still father a child, a 50 year old woman can't(unless through major medical assistance), so there is less pressure on men compared to women on that score. Forgetting extremes it is certainly true that a 35 year old guy is under far less pressure than a 35 year old woman who wants to have a family.

Wibbs

fineso.mom wrote: »

They started the company together and have agreed how they want to divide their assets. How is this a 'worse example'?
What do you think should happen when people divorce?

Indeed. It's hardly as if she rocked up when he was already a multi billionaire stuck it out for a few years and then cashed in. She supported him from the start and raised his kids while doing so. What she got IMHO is very fair.

eviltwin

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually the more you dig into that it's not nearly so clear cut. Take the three times higher! stat. No numbers given. If the risk of something is in ideal circumstances 1 in 100, then 3 in 100 is "three times higher" but it's still low risk. Similar goes on with regard to an increase in birth defects and the like with older mothers. Yes the risk goes up, but not nearly to the degree some scaremongering suggests. It also depends on the fitness and biological age of the men(and women). All things being equal a pre-diabetic overweight 35 year old with a hash habit is going to be producing worse swimmers than a fit as a butcher's dog 45 year old who does marathons for the craic.

But Sportsfan still has a point, the fact is a 50, 60, even 70 year old bloke can still father a child, a 50 year old woman can't(unless through major medical assistance), so there is less pressure on men compared to women on that score. Forgetting extremes it is certainly true that a 35 year old guy is under far less pressure than a 35 year old woman who wants to have a family.

There might not be a physical body clock but most guys I know who want children feel a pressure to have them while they are young enough to enjoy them. Having kids is a young persons game.

Wibbs

Oh most definitely ET, but is there also an element of societal and partner pressure and expectation in that too? I know one couple who got hitched when he was IIRC 42 and she was 30. They had their first child soon after, another came along around a few years later, their last when he was 50 and no comments were passed, but if they had met when he was 50 and she was 38 and it was the first child I suspect there might have been? Though again even on that score such pressures tend to be a lot higher for women.

I suppose as a general "rule" and for the average person, which is the vast majority, the time difference in pressures between men and women is about ten years. IE the pressure to start a family that a woman might feel at 35 would be similar to the pressures a man might feel at 45.

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually the more you dig into that it's not nearly so clear cut. Take the three times higher! stat. No numbers given. If the risk of something is in ideal circumstances 1 in 100, then 3 in 100 is "three times higher" but it's still low risk. Similar goes on with regard to an increase in birth defects and the like with older mothers. Yes the risk goes up, but not nearly to the degree some scaremongering suggests. It also depends on the fitness and biological age of the men(and women). All things being equal a pre-diabetic overweight 35 year old with a hash habit is going to be producing worse swimmers than a fit as a butcher's dog 45 year old who does marathons for the craic.

But Sportsfan still has a point, the fact is a 50, 60, even 70 year old bloke can still father a child, a 50 year old woman can't(unless through major medical assistance), so there is less pressure on men compared to women on that score. Forgetting extremes it is certainly true that a 35 year old guy is under far less pressure than a 35 year old woman who wants to have a family.

The only thing I would add is that the "clock", for want of a better term is different for men. If you're in decent shape at 40 or 50, attractive and have a decent income then you might be able to find a younger woman to have kids with but I don't think a lot of older chaps really fit that bill well enough to attract women in their twenties and thirties.

Dickie10

i wonder will there be a large cohort of people both male and female be chosing singledom even if not totally by choice with the covid restrictions? like when you think of it unless you are really driven to meet a partner , you would have missed almost a whole year of dating opportunities. when will restrictions be relaxed enough to let natural meetings happen?

Wibbs

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't think a lot of older chaps really fit that bill well enough to attract women in their twenties and thirties.

Very much so. Plus chances are a guy like that is much more likely have been off the market long before that age. Looking around my male friends there are a few with age gaps going on, but they were never guys short of female attention or company, have their sh1t together pretty much across the board and the age gaps came about because of long term relationships mostly with women around their own age going south, so they were "on the market" again. They also all have a wide social circle and meet new people on the regular through work and the like. In the cases where I knew their ex long term partners they seem to have had more difficulty starting over. All of the above is a small sample of course.

On the other hand one mate of mine who was on said market again actively avoided any sort of large age gap after a couple of experiences as in his words he couldn't be dealing with the drama of that and much preferred women more his own age.

Dickie10

Very intereting , find it amazing how much attention men get if their single past 30 and not half alchos or any other baggage. if there good looking ish then quick wnoiugh rumors of sexuality begin to abound when 34-5 and no woman

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

Very much so. Plus chances are a guy like that is much more likely have been off the market long before that age. Looking around my male friends there are a few with age gaps going on, but they were never guys short of female attention or company, have their sh1t together pretty much across the board and the age gaps came about because of long term relationships mostly with women around their own age going south, so they were "on the market" again. They also all have a wide social circle and meet new people on the regular through work and the like. In the cases where I knew their ex long term partners they seem to have had more difficulty starting over. All of the above is a small sample of course.

On the other hand one mate of mine who was on said market again actively avoided any sort of large age gap after a couple of experiences as in his words he couldn't be dealing with the drama of that and much preferred women more his own age.

Aye, there's a paradox there afoot. Speaking generally of course.

Dickie10 wrote: »

Very intereting , find it amazing how much attention men get if their single past 30 and not half alchos or any other baggage. if there good looking ish then quick wnoiugh rumors of sexuality begin to abound when 34-5 and no woman

I don't know. I'm where I always was but less bothered about the whole thing to be honest.

Galwayguy35

Dickie10 wrote: »

Very intereting , find it amazing how much attention men get if their single past 30 and not half alchos or any other baggage. if there good looking ish then quick wnoiugh rumors of sexuality begin to abound when 34-5 and no woman

I doubt anyone has got to their mid 30s without at least one past relationship under their belt and even if they haven't I also doubt other people even care what their sexuality is.

ancapailldorcha

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I doubt anyone has got to their mid 30s without at least one past relationship under their belt and even if they haven't I also doubt other people even care what their sexuality is.

I'd say it's more common that you'd think. Most of my friends were single until their late twenties and early thirties and married their first partners.

mr_fegelien

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd say it's more common that you'd think. Most of my friends were single until their late twenties and early thirties and married their first partners.

I've heard the reason is (besides people doing degrees and pushing marriage/kids/sex down the line in terms of age) is that men gain their sexual value in their late 20s and onwards.

Generally, younger men have a harder time attracting mates for the simple reason is that men of all ages are much more easily attracted to women than vice versa and women in their 20s are at their prime in terms of looks. A woman in her 20s could be a waster but so long as she's not a riff-raff, not obese and light skinned, she's get innundated with way too much sexual attention from men.

Meanwhile, women are generally attracted to financial stability in men and maturity which many younger men are lacking. So it's only when younger men have gotten jobs in their late 20s that they become more attractive.

Wibbs

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I've heard the reason is (besides people doing degrees and pushing marriage/kids/sex down the line in terms of age) is that men gain their sexual value in their late 20s and onwards.

There can be something to that, but in my experience anyway men can be placed in roughly two camps; those who get into relationships fairly early and consistently and those who don't. The former may settle down younger, or have a few relationships until they settle down, latter tend to come into their own later on say around 30, but a fair number don't, or like ancapailldorcha notes end up with the first person they have a relationship with.

kerryjack

Sex before marriage is a sin sex after marriage is a miracle.

Dickie10

Wibbs wrote: »

There can be something to that, but in my experience anyway men can be placed in roughly two camps; those who get into relationships fairly early and consistently and those who don't. The former may settle down younger, or have a few relationships until they settle down, latter tend to come into their own later on say around 30, but a fair number don't, or like ancapailldorcha notes end up with the first person they have a relationship with.

+1 on this, Yes have really noticed this phenomena, for some reason some guys absolutley hate being single and on the dating game and the antics that involve, boozing most weekends, mad weekends away, nightclubs, sun holidays etc. I think this kind of scene was big for dating in 90s and 00s maybe not as much now, but i would hazard a guess it still rings through up until covid in 80% of cases.
There are also guys who for some reason got hard to score with girls and eventually when they got to late 20s early 30s became seen this as a safe bet by women looking at the old bio clock, they were a safe pair of hands, naturally these lads were only too deleighted too get away from their "mates " and be taken seriously by others in thier community by settling down with a partner, these same guys you always had the feeling were itching to come out with statements like "Awww lads id love to head out tonight but we dont have a babysitter" or "...easy for you say, you dont know how much childcare cost", " not tonight lads were away with kids in morning" Now i know i may be poking fun, but you always knew the lads whos hearts were never in the weekend sesh and gave the collection of guys they tailed around with the boot the minute they got a partner, usually these mates were not really old friends but just a gang of single guys all on the pull together.


then there are others that love this kind of weekend fun and the thrill of the chase however these are usually good looking , popular guys who wouldnt go too long without scoring , they see it as a game, these guys if they leave it too long to eventually settle actually get afraid of the thought of a relationship where there nights out and antics are curtailed down to something like netflix and chill or cinema nights unless they are really into their partner they get hard to give up the game, unfortunatly i fell into this trap, i had numerous opportunities to get into relationships but feared giving up saturday night antics. As my friends paired off bit by bit with partners i scurried from one gang of single lads to the other, unfortunatley having to tag onto some gangs at times, sometimes younger gangs and hope not to be called out on it! Eventually i would also strike out on my own into pubs and eventually as the night wore on fall in wwith like minded souls. this can be very odd and not for the fainthearted, however you begin to realise you have super social skills and great ability to read people.

Any body agree or disagree that you can become addicted to the chase of it all.

ancapailldorcha

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I've heard the reason is (besides people doing degrees and pushing marriage/kids/sex down the line in terms of age) is that men gain their sexual value in their late 20s and onwards.

Generally, younger men have a harder time attracting mates for the simple reason is that men of all ages are much more easily attracted to women than vice versa and women in their 20s are at their prime in terms of looks. A woman in her 20s could be a waster but so long as she's not a riff-raff, not obese and light skinned, she's get innundated with way too much sexual attention from men.

Meanwhile, women are generally attracted to financial stability in men and maturity which many younger men are lacking. So it's only when younger men have gotten jobs in their late 20s that they become more attractive.

Depends on the man. Generally? Perhaps but not for myself. I'm very much the introverted type which doesn't exactly help.

It makes sense I suppose as the "right time" to settle down is at that stage as well.

Dickie10

always find women after 21/22 become very mature very quick and want to move onto the next phase

ED E

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

Are you studying psychology?

Because pretty much every single thread you start is related to relationships or psychology.

Seems like you are just farming for a course rather then just being an oddball the cursory glance at your posts would indicate.

OP is Cartman in the Warcraft episode of South Park.