Leaving without paying bill

Avaya2020

Recently stayed in holiday home , on departure I paid the owner and thought nothing of it . Fast forward 2 weeks later I received a visit from the Gards to say the owner told them I left without paying the bill . Money was paid in cash on departure and because of COVID etc I thought nothing of getting a receipt. I explained my position to the Gard and was ask to call the Gard down the country who was dealing with it . Spoke with him and he said quite clearly he doesn’t believe me and wants a statement done asap. I work in a profession that I can’t be in court or be in trouble with the Gards but 110% paid my bill and think the owner is trying to pull a fast one . Anyone dealt with this before ? On another point I’ve never had so much as parking ticket in 40 years

Pinoy adventure

What proof if any do you have too say you paid the bill ? What proof does the other party have that you didn't pay your bill ? How did you book/reserve the place you stayed in ?

Mrs_Hen

Did they contact you prior to now looking for payment via phone, email, text or writing ?
Who did you pay are you sure it was the owner and not an employee ?
Have you made contact with them to ask how this misunderstanding has occurred ?

tayto lover

I feel sorry for you finding yourself in this position. But you cannot prove you paid because you have no receipt so you’re in trouble here.
You will probably have to pay again. Maybe the staff member you paid pocketed the original money?

Guard or Garda. Stop mutilating two languages.

Its your choice to make a statement or not. It will be a cautioned statement if you do make one.

Did youb pay at a reception desk and remember the time roughly? Could be cctv footage if you can tell the Garda the time.

Avaya2020

I made the booking online , key was left out in arriving, I never met or seen the owner all week , got a text morning of departure about fixing up . An hour later they arrived in car to see if we had a good time etc I paid her and we left . She had a mask on and the Gard asked me what the owner looked like and I explained about mask and told her the hair colour but couldn’t remember the car other than a saloon .

Avaya2020

It’s was a cottage In Donegal the middle of no where , I said to the Gards someone doesn’t just randomly drive up and ask about your week and ask for money , he said he knows the owner and believes them .

Hoboo

Avaya2020 wrote: »

I made the booking online , key was left out in arriving, I never met or seen the owner all week , got a text morning of departure about fixing up . An hour later they arrived in car to see if we had a good time etc I paid her and we left . She had a mask on and the Gard asked me what the owner looked like and I explained about mask and told her the hair colour but couldn’t remember the car other than a saloon .

So she texted you to arrange.

I'm guessing she never texted again to say "where the **** are you, you left without paying!".

Ask the gardai to do their job and get that from her.

joeguevara

Did you give back keys when paying your final bill?

If paid in cash can you show an atm withdrawal from it?

Was there a witness (even if a family member) of you paying?

Was it Air B N B or an actual resort where they gave you a contract?

Tell the Garda you will go to GSOC if he makes out that you are lying again.

Mrs_Hen

Okay you have a text from the host about paying and you answered it they arrived you paid a female ! and no texts since demanding payment I am sure your safe to say your okay then so if you have not had any other correspondence since then from then host.

Grab All Association

Can the owners and Gardaí prove you didn’t pay this bill? Surely the onus is on them to prove this and isn’t this is a civil matter anyway? I’d also be contacting that superintendent in Donegal, this Garda sounds personally involved and there’s a conflict of interest here.

eviltwin

So what is the owner saying that they arrived to collect money and you had already left? Or that they arrived as planned and you refused and left?

It doesn't make sense. If you left without paying either before the owner arrived or while they were there there would be evidence of some kind of attempt by the owner to contact you. She doesn't have that so where does that leave her.

I hope when you get it sorted you leave a scathing review on the website you booked from.

Avaya2020

joeguevara wrote: »

Did you give back keys when paying your final bill?

If paid in cash can you show an atm withdrawal from it?

Was there a witness (even if a family member) of you paying?

Was it Air B N B or an actual resort where they gave you a contract?

Tell the Garda you will go to GSOC if he makes out that you are lying again.

Booking was made through their personal website
Lodged money out at start of week as I thought I would on arriving
Didn’t see or hear from owner all week until departing
I was packing car when they arrived and partner was in home cleaning so no witnesses
Garda was very abrupt, said they want a statement as they didn’t believe me and would takes this further for a criminal investigation. Wanted me to come back to Donegal from Wexford and said I couldn’t because of the lockdown, kept saying they where going to get local Garda to drop out to my house if it’s not sorted . Any other time I would drive straight up there and but because of level 3 and as I said I can’t get in trouble am at loss here

seamus

Talk to your solicitor before making a statement and do not speak to the Gardai without your solicitor present. If the Garda says he knows the owner, they could be trying to pull a fast one by getting you to pay again and split the cash.

This is a situation where it's your word against theirs. Neither of you can prove the conversation that took place, and any attempt to prove intent would be very flimsy.

It's important you engage your solicitor for guidance on what happens next. Most likely s/he will help you prepare a written statement and that'll be the end of it.

I'd be inclined to make a complaint to GSOC about the Garda in question. Not only is he personally invested in the case, but he has also threatend to prosecute you if you exercise your legal right to refuse to make a statement. But again, your solicitor is best placed to advise.

wtf are the guards doing calling around about supposedly unpaid bills? - it's not a garda matter.

if you have the text message then that should put you in the clear.

what does the text message say? (roughly).

Hoboo

Avaya2020 wrote: »

Booking was made through their personal website
Lodged money out at start of week as I thought I would on arriving
Didn’t see or hear from owner all week until departing
I was packing car when they arrived and partner was in home cleaning so no witnesses
Garda was very abrupt, said they want a statement as they didn’t believe me and would takes this further for a criminal investigation. Wanted me to come back to Donegal from Wexford and said I couldn’t because of the lockdown, kept saying they where going to get local Garda to drop out to my house if it’s not sorted . Any other time I would drive straight up there and but because of level 3 and as I said I can’t get in trouble am at loss here

You must have skipped a few posts there, you're not at a loss at all.

Mrs_Hen

I was thinking the exact same, I am in the industry over 25 years and I have never heard such a crock of .... But how did you find a personal website to book on ?

joeguevara

Avaya2020 wrote: »

Booking was made through their personal website
Lodged money out at start of week as I thought I would on arriving
Didn’t see or hear from owner all week until departing
I was packing car when they arrived and partner was in home cleaning so no witnesses
Garda was very abrupt, said they want a statement as they didn’t believe me and would takes this further for a criminal investigation. Wanted me to come back to Donegal from Wexford and said I couldn’t because of the lockdown, kept saying they where going to get local Garda to drop out to my house if it’s not sorted . Any other time I would drive straight up there and but because of level 3 and as I said I can’t get in trouble am at loss here

Why would the Garda say that they would send someone out to your house when in the first post you said that local garda came out to your house? Bit strange.

Witcher

glasso wrote: »

wtf are the guards doing calling around about supposedly unpaid bills? - it's not a garda matter.

if you have the text message then that should put you in the clear.

what does the text message say? (roughly).

Well it is a Garda matter if there's an allegation that a person has avoided paying for a service when they knew payment was due.

Hoboo

glasso wrote: »

wtf are the guards doing calling around about supposedly unpaid bills? - it's not a garda matter.

if you have the text message then that should put you in the clear.

what does the text message say? (roughly).

Is making off without paying not considered theft?

Pinoy adventure

Hoboo wrote: »

Is making off without paying not considered theft?

Is accusing somebody of not paying a bill deframation ?

Witcher

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Is accusing somebody of not paying a bill deframation ?

If that was the case nobody could ever report a crime and identify a suspect.

Witcher

Witcher wrote: »

Well it is a Garda matter if there's an allegation that a person has avoided paying for a service when they knew payment was due.

Don't think that the guards do debt collecting for builders, painters in the same circumstances...

fitzparker

Of course the guard would believe the local, he should have a non bias approach to it.

no way would I travel another 800km round trip to give a statement, tell them to come to you.

you have at least a text message saying they are on the way, did they mention anything about where the key is?

if someone did a legger on a weeks payment or if nobody was there when they arrived, the first thing they would have done was called you. not wait a few days for a random guard to call at your door.

Potentially someone down there could have got there first and chance there arm pretending to be the owner but again, as point above if owner did turn up they would have called to see where you are.

joeguevara

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Is accusing somebody of not paying a bill deframation ?

Not if its true.

If it isn't you would have to be exonerated and then take a defamation case.

partyguinness

You would have thought if a guest was going to do a runner they would not have given all their personal details via the booking website.

Avaya2020

Went online to book holiday in Donegal
Found website that offered cottage for rent
Personal website belongs to owner
Booked online, made reservations
Can pay online or pay owner
Clicked pay on arriving
Before arriving owner text to say won’t be there
Key left under rock at holiday cottage
No contact made from owner until day of leaving
Text message to say “thanx for staying, can we fix up bill etc
Didn’t see text as I was packing car
Alleged owner arrived, spine with her a few minutes, said bill was x amount electric was x amount and I paid her in cash
Owner said leave key in same spot as cleaner
Coming to clean later
Packed up car left
2 weeks later call from Gards to say they owner called to say haven’t paid
Explained all off the above
Didn’t hear back until today when get a call to say they had been trying to get in touch
Explained I work night shifts and I live in middle of no where so signal not great
Garda said they where going to send someone out to my house as my shouldn’t be off that much !!
Went through whole story again
Said he didn’t believe me and that he wanted a statement- said I wasn’t driving to Donegal because of lockdown- got a cheeky response like I can get local Garda to come out to house , said I would drop into local and give one as I paid .
Again told he didn’t believe me and that owner was of good character, called back a few minutes ago with local Garda name and contact info to go in and give a statement.

Pinoy adventure

joeguevara wrote: »

Not if its true.

If it isn't you would have to be exonerated and then take a defamation case.

But if it'is true it most certainly is

SuperS54

Unless it's some internet scam whereby the OP rented from a scammer who rented from the owner, scammer collects money and disappears, owner only has scammers phone number so OP never receives a follow up.

Suggest asking the owner to describe you and your car and provide your phone number to the Garda, check if it is a scam or she's mixing you up with someone else. Plot twist, get the Garda's name and then ring the station looking for him in case this is a double swindle attempt!

I've never heard of an arrangement where you pay after staying in rented accomodation, AirBnB etc. all get credit card details and at least a deposit up front.

joeguevara

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

But if it'is true it most certainly is

If it is true it certainly isn't defamataion.

Fol20

Witcher wrote: »

Well it is a Garda matter if there's an allegation that a person has avoided paying for a service when they knew payment was due.

It’s a civil matter. Not criminal

Witcher

Fol20 wrote: »

It’s a civil matter. Not criminal

Section 8, Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

'Making off without payment' -

Subject to subsection (2), a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot is guilty of an offence.

Dial Hard

OP, has it not occurred to you to just ring the owner and ask where the confusion is?

GBX

Whats the chances you paid the cleaner and not the owner? Owner arrived after the cleaner, no money there. Cleaner said they didnt see any money left. Now the Garda are involved?

partyguinness

It is not for the Garda to say whether or not they believe you or the owner is of good character. Typical thick attitude

Call their bluff. Tell them to charge you and let the District Court decide which story to believe.

I am willing to bet my mortgage that it will be dropped quicker than a hot stone. End of.

Pkiernan

I'd ignore any phone calls from this Garda.

File a complaint with GSOC.

moceri

Sounds very suspect that this person is using a Garda "friend" to act outside their powers.
I would raise it with the Ombudsman office. https://www.donegaldaily.com/2016/12/19/more-than-e11million-paid-to-55-victims-of-donegal-garda-corruption/

joeguevara

moceri wrote: »

Sounds very suspect that this person is using a Hard to act outside their powers.
I would raise it with the Ombudsman office. https://www.donegaldaily.com/2016/12/19/more-than-e11million-paid-to-55-victims-of-donegal-garda-corruption/

This paper is not allowed in the Donegal forum as per their charter. Its a rag.

Avaya2020

Pkiernan wrote: »

I'd ignore any phone calls from this Garda.

File a complaint with GSOC.

TBH I would but he kept saying they will get local garda to come out the house , I’d rather not have Garda arriving out to my home making a spectacle of me .

Witcher

OP for your own sake go to the local station and make a statement in relation to it and provide as much evidence as you can, printed screenshots of texts etc.

Disregard the advice to ignore phone calls from the Garda, other people are always very brave when it's someone else's case.

Ignoring it may just result in a summons coming to your door someday and the guard standing up in court and saying you failed to engage with him.

joeguevara

Avaya2020 wrote: »

TBH I would but he kept saying they will get local garda to come out the house , I’d rather not have Garda arriving out to my home making a spectacle of me .

You said in the OP that you already received a visit from the Gardai.

Avaya2020

I called local Garda , they said the Garda in Donegal have been in touch and they needed me to come down and make a statement asap. Said it was an voluntary statement which would then be sent to Donegal for them to proceed whatever this means . Told local Garda what had been said and he declined to make a comment on what the other Garda had said . Said that I was told it was a civil matter but he said it’s criminal if owner wants to press charges

Samuel T. Cogley

On the defmation thing. Qualified Privilege.

joeguevara

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

On the defmation thing. Qualified Privilege.

If its not true the owner would be open to defamation and malicious prosecution.

Avaya2020

joeguevara wrote: »

You said in the OP that you already received a visit from the Gardai.

Apparently they arrived out some evening at 10pm but no one was home , told them I work nights so didn’t know if they did or not

joeguevara

Avaya2020 wrote: »

I called local Garda , they said the Garda in Donegal have been in touch and they needed me to come down and make a statement asap. Said it was an voluntary statement which would then be sent to Donegal for them to proceed whatever this means . Told local Garda what had been said and he declined to make a comment on what the other Garda had said . Said that I was told it was a civil matter but he said it’s criminal if owner wants to press charges

You said they visited.

Anyway. Call owner. Say you paid. Record this. No need to get consent for recording.

Tell Garda that unless a charge is made that no statement will be provided.

Tell local Gardai the same and that you will come to the station if it is required.

Then stop thinking about it.

SOunds like they are mixing you up with someone else or you paid the wrong person.

micah537

So the video evidence from your cars dash cam which is now at your solicitors office, shows the owner arriving and you handing the money to them, will be presented in court. So now you are waiting to be summoned to court so tell the Gardaí to stop wasting your time as you have all the proof you need

TheWonderLlama

just go to a solicitor, now.

bring a printout of the booking form, screenshots of the texts and tell them the full story.
Copy of the bank statement showing cash withdrawal.

Do not wing it. Do NOT give a statement to the guards before doing this.

Did you get the name of the garda in Donegal? maybe call them back and ask for name, rank and number if queried, say your solicitor requires it.

My best guess is they will write to the owner directly to deny accusations and that'll be the last you'll hear of it. But that is only a guess and not advice.

joeguevara

TheWonderLlama wrote: »

just go to a solicitor, now.

bring a printout of the booking form, screenshots of the texts and tell them the full story.
Copy of the bank statement showing cash withdrawal.

Do not wing it. Do NOT give a statement to the guards before doing this.

Did you get the name of the garda in Donegal? maybe call them back and ask for name, rank and number if queried, say your solicitor requires it.

My best guess is they will write to the owner directly to deny accusations and that'll be the last you'll hear of it. But that is only a guess and not advice.

Solicitor would cost more than the cost of the weeks cottage rental.

joeguevara

micah537 wrote: »

So the video evidence from your cars dash cam which is now at your solicitors office, shows the owner arriving and you handing the money to them, will be presented in court. So now you are waiting to be summoned to court so tell the Gardaí to stop wasting your time as you have all the proof you need

Dont ever lie to a Garda or a lawyer.

Witcher

joeguevara wrote: »

You said they visited.

Anyway. Call owner. Say you paid. Record this. No need to get consent for recording.

Tell Garda that unless a charge is made that no statement will be provided.

Tell local Gardai the same and that you will come to the station if it is required.

Then stop thinking about it.

SOunds like they are mixing you up with someone else or you paid the wrong person.

If they were being charged a statement wouldn't be needed, the proceedings have already commenced. The OP won't be charged as the Garda isn't going to come down from Donegal for the purposes of charging someone for a small monetary value offence. The case will proceed by summons if it proceeds at all.

As I said OP, be cautious of advice telling you to bury your head on this. If it was as easy as ignoring the Gardai nobody would ever be convicted of a crime. The same people would be leaving scorch marks after them to get to the station.

Go in and make a statement, provide your evidence and see what happens then.