Antisocial behaviour

blowin3

I was reading an article on the Clare Champion regarding antisocial behaviour in Clare. I unfortunately have had to put up with this behaviour while Clare County Council basically do nothing about these people.

How rampant is it happening and its about time decent people got together to stop this intimidation.

Valresnick

blowin3 wrote: »

I was reading an article on the Clare Champion regarding antisocial behaviour in Clare. I unfortunately have had to put up with this behaviour while Clare County Council basically do nothing about these people.

How rampant is it happening and its about time decent people got together to stop this intimidation.

Rampant in Dublin. Very little being done by anyone. Gardaí can only do so much. Courts and judicial system constantly let them down. The amount of grey tracksuit wearing scumbags is growing by the day. No political party willing to do anything. Normal people not willing to do anything because if you touched one these angels you’d end up in jail.

blowin3

I agree the council say its a Garda issue and the Gardai say its a civil issue go to the council so the circular continues. But people need to stand up to these thugs and demand politicians take note . Just interested to see if many more people in clare have similar issues.

TheBlackPill

blowin3 wrote: »

I agree the council say its a Garda issue and the Gardai say its a civil issue go to the council so the circular continues. But people need to stand up to these thugs and demand politicians take note . Just interested to see if many more people in clare have similar issues.

Large scale vigilante action cannot be far off, as the authorities just pander to scum that make decent people's lives a misery

blowin3

I am not advocating violence but I am saying council and landlords should be held to account. They dump these people onto private estates and don't care after that. But i can assure you our friends in the council will make sure they are not living close to them.

MarkR

So this isn't really about antisocial behavior in general, but people in social housing causing trouble? I don't really see any short term solution. Take example of a young guy, living with his Mrs, and he's going out selling drugs. Drugs are bad. He's in a council semi, but so are his Mrs and kids. Do you turf them all out? Is that fair on the kids? Don't tell me that it's the criminal's fault, when some kid is homeless.

Men with big sticks isn't going to work either. They'll get someone. Someone will be caught on CCTV, or just recognized. We all know what happens to masked vigilantes. They get found out. Now their family is at risk. Or should be turfed out of their own council house, (if in one) I presume?

Education and support services would be a better use of time and money.

afro man

MarkR wrote: »

So this isn't really about antisocial behavior in general, but people in social housing causing trouble? I don't really see any short term solution. Take example of a young guy, living with his Mrs, and he's going out selling drugs. Drugs are bad. He's in a council semi, but so are his Mrs and kids. Do you turf them all out? Is that fair on the kids? Don't tell me that it's the criminal's fault, when some kid is homeless.

Men with big sticks isn't going to work either. They'll get someone. Someone will be caught on CCTV, or just recognized. We all know what happens to masked vigilantes. They get found out. Now their family is at risk. Or should be turfed out of their own council house, (if in one) I presume?

Education and support services would be a better use of time and money.

if he going out selling Drugs he should be arrested and im sure the Mrs has a fair idea what he is doing.. most council estates I would imagine have some sort of rules for people living there break the rules and pay the price.. So now you want state to also pay for education and support for drug dealer leaving on reduced rates ??

Cluedo Monopoly

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Large scale vigilante action cannot be far off, as the authorities just pander to scum that make decent people's lives a misery

I think you might be right. I envisage groups of men in hi-vis jackets and hurls sorting some of these gobdaws out.

MarkR

afro man wrote: »

if he going out selling Drugs he should be arrested and im sure the Mrs has a fair idea what he is doing.. most council estates I would imagine have some sort of rules for people living there break the rules and pay the price.. So now you want state to also pay for education and support for drug dealer leaving on reduced rates ??

See, you didn't answer the question. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be kicked out. I'm asking about the others in the household who aren't responsible.

Do you kick her out, and the kids? He gets a suspended sentence, and come right back home. What is your solution?

afro man

MarkR wrote: »

See, you didn't answer the question. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be kicked out. I'm asking about the others in the household who aren't responsible.

Do you kick her out, and the kids? He gets a suspended sentence, and come right back home. What is your solution?

Kick him out lock him up ,, Strip house of all proceeds of crime ,, If wife knows as well kick them all out and put them back on waiting list … if you willing to deal drugs you deserve no Sympathy,, Is he worried about ruining other peoples lives or dealing to their children when he returns to his cosy council house with his wife and family.

MarkR

afro man wrote: »

Kick him out lock him up ,, Strip house of all proceeds of crime ,, If wife knows as well kick them all out and put them back on waiting list … if you willing to deal drugs you deserve no Sympathy,, Is he worried about ruining other peoples lives or dealing to their children when he returns to his cosy council house with his wife and family.

Again, you seem to be ignoring the part about the kids. What do you do about them? They have to be housed.

tayto lover

When people are allocated a council house do they not have to sign a behaviour contract with the council?
If they do then they should be removed from the house if they break the contract. One warning and out the next time.
Simple way to solve the issue.

afro man

tayto lover wrote: »

When people are allocated a council house do they not have to sign a behaviour contract with the council?
If they do then they should be removed from the house if they break the contract. One warning and out the next time.
Simple way to solve the issue.

Yes I'd have no issues with this either as long as it is enforced

afro man

MarkR wrote: »

Again, you seem to be ignoring the part about the kids. What do you do about them? They have to be housed.

Answer this if father and mother both found guilty of dealing drugs what is your solution..
If they go to jail I'm sure court would look to get children looked after by parents family members. Worse case they might have to be taken into care.. But as already stated what father or mother would be classed as good parents if they ok with dealing drugs.

MarkR

afro man wrote: »

Answer this if father and mother both found guilty of dealing drugs what is your solution..
If they go to jail I'm sure court would look to get children looked after by parents family members. Worse case they might have to be taken into care.. But as already stated what father or mother would be classed as good parents if they ok with dealing drugs.

That's still not answering my example. If they're both in prison, then the kids would go into care. If the mother is still home, you want her and the kids turfed out on the street? I don't think they take kids from parents for being homeless. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, I've no love for scumbags, just playing the devil's advocate on a complex issue with no easy solutions.

Valresnick

tayto lover wrote: »

When people are allocated a council house do they not have to sign a behaviour contract with the council?
If they do then they should be removed from the house if they break the contract. One warning and out the next time.
Simple way to solve the issue.

Because soft touch - bleeding heart Ireland won’t ever ever allow that to happen !!

blowin3

A lot of the antisocial behavior is not always council owned property.

I know of at least 2 cases in Ennis where the families are on the HAP scheme where the council washes their hands saying its a private property that a landlord is responsible. The landlord basically does noting as he/she is guaranteed payment from the lovely people in HAP the Garda will say its civil. The Rental tenants board will rarly give an evection order against a family especially where children are involved.

The people at fault here in my eyes are the council they just sit back and tick boxes and dont give a damn about home owners in these situations .

Henry Ford III

What sort of anti social behaviour are we talking about here exactly, and where?

blowin3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What sort of anti social behaviour are we talking about here exactly, and where?

All night parties fights intimidation drugs etc. does not always have to be Ennis as HAP will pay out anywhere be it Ennis Ruan Milltown etc. But council wash their hands say talk to land lord who gets paid anyway so most dont give a damn.

I know of at least 2 cases in Ennis that have been going on for over 3 years on a private estate where HAP are paying everyone one wins but the neighbors who are often scared to complain.

afro man

Plenty of Anti social behavior out In Shannon the last few days
cant mention the Community involved or I will get banned
but shocking carry on at Graveyard entrance and surrounding area .. Think Clare FM Have report on it now

colm_mcm

http://clareherald.com/2021/01/gardai-investigate-shannon-firearm-incident-13011/

MarkR

I've seen the video of the car chase / shooting, as well as the "call out" video afterwards. From the article, and it's pictures, it seems that it may involve some people who have been parked up in the local cemetery for the last month or so.

With guns involved, it's a bit more than antisocial behaviour. From the video, I would hope the gardai are able to identify the vehicle, and those responsible.

afro man

MarkR wrote: »

I've seen the video of the car chase / shooting, as well as the "call out" video afterwards. From the article, and it's pictures, it seems that it may involve some people who have been parked up in the local cemetery for the last month or so.

With guns involved, it's a bit more than antisocial behaviour. From the video, I would hope the gardai are able to identify the vehicle, and those responsible.

MarkR

you forgot to Mention our Local community who are based at Ballymurtagh they are involved also .its their town after all

MarkR

afro man wrote: »

MarkR

you forgot to Mention our Local community who are based at Ballymurtagh they are involved also .its their town after all

I'm only going by what's in the news report. I don't have any information about anyone else's involvement in it.

irishproduce

afro man wrote: »

Plenty of Anti social behavior out In Shannon the last few days
cant mention the Community involved or I will get banned
but shocking carry on at Graveyard entrance and surrounding area .. Think Clare FM Have report on it now

Why can't you mention who is involved. It's travellers who have hitched up blocking the graveyard. It's reported on the town community group on FB that there is a local Guard available for 3 hours each day to accompany people who need to use the graveyard to grieve loved ones.
That's what it's come to. A guard has to sheparone people because of travellers.
What are the policitians out there doing?

Clareman

Lots of reasons for not mentioning who is involved, the main reason would be discussing an ongoing legal matter.

irishproduce

Apologies. I didn't appreciate the legal aspect. I'm not aware there's a legal case on it.
Can anyone post a link?

Clareman

I think it's linked to this case https://www.clareecho.ie/two-arrests-made-following-release-of-firearm-in-shannon/

As a general rule of thumb, if someone is named on another site, it's ok to name them once you reference the other site, boards shouldn't be the first place to name someone.

afro man

More fun and games in shannon fast food outlet robbed at knifepoint ... attempted break in near Gaa club..and the suspected person did a runner when car stopped by guards.. but guess what this genius left his child behind in his car ..

MarkR

Geniuses.

Shapey Fiend

I'm not as well informed about this as I could be as someone else said the situation is very complex. Evictions are a lot slower in Ireland than in other European countries. If there are so many people in the queue for council accommodation I think the ones who aren't two years in arrears or selling drugs/causing mayhem should get swapped in and replaced with someone else who's contributing properly.

On the other side there's a huge amount of vacant or derelict housing around the country that should be taxed. Private rental market is stupid now we should have rents that are affordable for everybody which we don't due to an artificially created shortfall.

In terms of drug dealing we probably should be looking at ways to decriminalise some of the lighter stuff and put the money back into treatment. Addiction needs to be tackled you're always going to have it and it's just creating a huge market for dealers.

Johnboy1951

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I'm not as well informed about this as I could be as someone else said the situation is very complex. Evictions are a lot slower in Ireland than in other European countries. If there are so many people in the queue for council accommodation I think the ones who aren't two years in arrears or selling drugs/causing mayhem should get swapped in and replaced with someone else who's contributing properly.

Do you know many (any?) families who would take up residence in a property from which those "selling drugs/causing mayhem" were evicted?
I think most would refuse such accomodation.

On the other side there's a huge amount of vacant or derelict housing around the country that should be taxed. Private rental market is stupid now we should have rents that are affordable for everybody which we don't due to an artificially created shortfall.

They are taxed and if disposed of, taxed again.
'Should have' is just aspirational.
Would you rent your property for considerably less than the going rate?

In terms of drug dealing we probably should be looking at ways to decriminalise some of the lighter stuff and put the money back into treatment. Addiction needs to be tackled you're always going to have it and it's just creating a huge market for dealers.

There is no need to look far for the ways and means to do this and to study the results of such actions.

We never, ever do things right in this country ....... half arsed attempts at reform and inadequate support afterwards causing failure.

But then we, the citizens, elect these people so we get what we vote for!

Shapey Fiend

I think I'd take a house if I was on a waiting list for 10 years. Surely of the thousands in those lists someone will take it?

I do rent out my apartment for below the going rent. I've had the tenant for 7 years and 500 euro a month for a 2 bed apartment sounds about right to me.

Maybe people could be better incentivised to refurbish and rent a place out if there are blocks in dublin with 20% occupancy and flipping sites without ever building on them. I've had multiple tenants destroy my place, travellers squatting in there etc. It's a nightmare but I do believe deliberate vacancy is public vandalism. Of course I'd have probably have left it vacant and flipped it at this point if Ennis apartments still weren't less than half their 2006 valuations.

Agreed on the political front. They're just a reflection of our choices.

blowin3

I know a property in Ennis that Clare CoCo is paying HAP for. The tenant was found guilty of antisocial behavior by the RTB but no termination order was served. The antisocial behavior is still going on there and also drug dealing also months of rubbish dumped out the back .
Both the landlord and the council do noting the local politican FG for the area just ignores all communication. So the residents and some are frontline workers basically have no rights just told phone the guards who in fairness do their best. This is a private estate in Ennis town.

MarkR

blowin3 wrote: »

I know a property in Ennis that Clare CoCo is paying HAP for. The tenant was found guilty of antisocial behavior by the RTB but no termination order was served. The antisocial behavior is still going on there and also drug dealing also months of rubbish dumped out the back .
Both the landlord and the council do noting the local politican FG for the area just ignores all communication. So the residents and some are frontline workers basically have no rights just told phone the guards who in fairness do their best. This is a private estate in Ennis town.

Any other local politicians you can chase up? You can call environmental health to report rubbish dumped like that.

You may have seen this.

https://www.clarecoco.ie/services/housing/social-housing/anti-social-behaviour/

Clareman

blowin3 wrote: »

I know a property in Ennis that Clare CoCo is paying HAP for. The tenant was found guilty of antisocial behavior by the RTB but no termination order was served. The antisocial behavior is still going on there and also drug dealing also months of rubbish dumped out the back .
Both the landlord and the council do noting the local politican FG for the area just ignores all communication. So the residents and some are frontline workers basically have no rights just told phone the guards who in fairness do their best. This is a private estate in Ennis town.

Might be worth asking in the Accommodation & Property forum as well, some of the folks there really know their stuff.

blowin3

MarkR wrote: »

Any other local politicians you can chase up? You can call environmental health to report rubbish dumped like that.

You may have seen this.

https://www.clarecoco.ie/services/housing/social-housing/anti-social-behaviour/

I spoke to the lady involved.
She says Clare Coco say its a private house its up to landlord they only pay the HAP payment.
She said Clare coco environment if it not the front of the house not their problem HSE environment say due to Covid restrictions etc.
Because they from a certain ethnic background local politicians back off dont want to get involved. She told me one neighbor has been intimidated all summer in her own garden and in town by this family. This is while holding down a job in a hospital .

MarkR

I don't think bringing travellers into this help. Codewords like "certain minorities" isn't cool or clever.

Written complaints would be best at this stage, if you're not getting help on the phone.

blowin3

MarkR wrote: »

I don't think bringing travellers into this help. Codewords like "certain minorities" isn't cool or clever.

Written complaints would be best at this stage, if you're not getting help on the phone.

Hey Mark I am sure if you lived next to this intemadtion its not cool or clever either. If I said an Ennis family of social economic background would that be ok. Its sicking that the protection these people get as I said Garda politicians and the paymaster Clare COCO no one cares. But I tell you something Mark this lady saw 3 of her clients die from Covid this week and is dealing with another 7 that are on a very sorry state. These are mother fathers grandfathers etc of Clare people and she puts her life on the line to try protect them. Than her neighbors who never have or will contribute to society party and have people coming and going from the house with no regard for Covid or regulations.

Than you tell this lady to phone or write she has done it all that Mark she even spent 2 days in a RTB tribunal where this family were found guilty of antisocial behavior but they are still there WHY I ask. The reason being no one wants to take them on am I angry yes I am Mark. This lady is a very good meek person and does not deserve to live or be treated like this in her own home which she has bought out of her hard earned money . Sorry for rant Mark I will prob get banned for this but do I care.

Johnboy1951

MarkR wrote: »

I don't think bringing travellers into this help. Codewords like "certain minorities" isn't cool or clever.

...

Doesn't help who?

Perpertrators?
Victims?
Reader?


I would certainly expect it to be acceptable to state the general area of residence of perpetrators.
Oh yeah ..... they do not have any fixed address. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should use the term 'of no fixed abode' in place of 'travellers'.

MarkR

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Doesn't help who?

Perpertrators?
Victims?
Reader?


I would certainly expect it to be acceptable to state the general area of residence of perpetrators.
Oh yeah ..... they do not have any fixed address. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should use the term 'of no fixed abode' in place of 'travellers'.

It's more anti traveller bias. It's not allowed here. Please don't post about it again.

Johnboy1951

My post was not anti-traveller, but most definitely was anti 'anti-social-behaviour'.

If those perpetrators were from any housing estate in any town then their location would be used to call them out without naming them.

Why should they not be called out in this case?
Because they have no fixed abode?

You can misinterpret my post in any way you wish, but my attitude is consistent regardless race, colour, creed or any other designation you care to mention.
Scrots are scrots regardless the designation.

Clareman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Doesn't help who?

Perpertrators?
Victims?
Reader?


I would certainly expect it to be acceptable to state the general area of residence of perpetrators.
Oh yeah ..... they do not have any fixed address. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should use the term 'of no fixed abode' in place of 'travellers'.

Travellers are a ethnic minority in Ireland so using any term to identify a minority would be considered racist which is against the rules of boards.ie so it cannot happen. If you don't like it I'd suggest bring the discussion to the main feedback forum or to your elective representatives, this isn't a mods issue but anyone that does bring ethnic/racial backgrounds into a discussion will have the ability to post removed.

afro man

Clareman wrote: »

Travellers are a ethnic minority in Ireland so using any term to identify a minority would be considered racist which is against the rules of boards.ie so it cannot happen. If you don't like it I'd suggest bring the discussion to the main feedback forum or to your elective representatives, this isn't a mods issue but anyone that does bring ethnic/racial backgrounds into a discussion will have the ability to post removed.

Clareman

Would the Protestant community not fall under Ethnic minority Banner also
You just cant label one Community with the term.

Clareman

afro man wrote: »

Clareman

Would the Protestant community not fall under Ethnic minority Banner also
You just cant label one Community with the term.

That would be religion rather than ethnic group.

I didn't "label" the group, Enda Kenny did so it's outside my control completely but I have to act on it if anyone posts outside the guidelines.