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WWE and Twitch

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  • 02-10-2020 9:58am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭


    WWE getting heat over the Twitch takeover with Andrew Yang tweeting about it too. I can't wrap my head around how these people are independent contractors in any sense.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,391 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    WWE getting heat over the Twitch takeover with Andrew Yang tweeting about it too. I can't wrap my head around how these people are independent contractors in any sense.

    I think part of the problem rests on the wrestler themselves. Wrestlers are either afraid to speak out about it, are willing to accept how things are out of some misplaced view of loyalty or intimidation, or they simply don't care enough. There's not many people within the industry that would openly talk about it so it's managed to fly under the radar for such a long time.

    In order to change things I think you need a movement on the wrestlers part. Not just one or two wrestlers, but many wrestlers speaking out and taking a stand, and it needs to be current WWE wrestlers as well because retired wrestlers or wrestlers who are no longer part of WWE won't make much of a difference. Unfortunately I couldn't see many in WWE taking a stand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Riddle101 wrote: »
    I think part of the problem rests on the wrestler themselves. Wrestlers are either afraid to speak out about it, are willing to accept how things are out of some misplaced view of loyalty or intimidation, or they simply don't care enough. There's not many people within the industry that would openly talk about it so it's managed to fly under the radar for such a long time.

    In order to change things I think you need a movement on the wrestlers part. Not just one or two wrestlers, but many wrestlers speaking out and taking a stand, and it needs to be current WWE wrestlers as well because retired wrestlers or wrestlers who are no longer part of WWE won't make much of a difference. Unfortunately I couldn't see many in WWE taking a stand.

    One of the upsides of WWE no longer creating stars is that practically no talent in that company holds real sway. Of their regular roster, any of them could up and leave and you probably wouldn't even notice, let alone a casual viewer noticing. They're entirely interchangeable and the talent know it. They take a stand, they get fired, there's some guys in NXT or the PC waiting to take their place.

    In a completely made up scenario which will never happen, imagine tomorrow morning half of the main roster take a stand on the issue and go on strike. The ironic thing is because it'd leak and everybody would know about it, the curiosity views for Monday Night Raw would probably draw them one of their biggest ratings of the year. Of course that would dip, but I have no doubts they'd level out at roughly where they are right now audience wise, while still trending downwards on an annual basis. Of course, that's hypothetical and there's no way to prove that theory to be true or false, but when you think about the cache the current crop of main roster guys have, it must be at an all time low.

    And for WWE, this is just another bottom of the barrel, dirtbird move.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,126 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Paige will be fuming. I read that she makes $30,000 a month from Twitch (fùck knows why). Now WWE are taking a slice of that? My blood would be boiling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Paige will be fuming. I read that she makes $30,000 a month from Twitch (fùck knows why). Now WWE are taking a slice of that? My blood would be boiling.

    Not only a slice but controlling the content as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,434 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    There is crazy money to be made on these social media sites for them. Some of them would be better off telling Vince to go fcuk himself and get sacked.

    I was reading the other Sunny makes about $5k a week from less than a thousand subscribers of her OnlyFans site but I think Bella Thorne may have killed that site for those using it.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC




  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    This is going to get ugly real quick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,126 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    This is going to get ugly real quick.

    Is it? WWE wrestlers aren't exactly famous for standing up for themselves. The most we'll see is a few passive aggressive tweets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,881 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    So everyone has to stream on twitch?
    Will they have a minimum number of hours they need to do?
    I assume they won't be able to talk about what they want? This would affect those who already stream.
    Can imagine the lower card guys with very few people watching while they're streaming. Would nearly feel bad for them


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Paige will be fuming. I read that she makes $30,000 a month from Twitch (fùck knows why). Now WWE are taking a slice of that? My blood would be boiling.

    $30,000 per month? Jesus. These people don't live on the same planet as us.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    jaykhunter wrote: »
    $30,000 per month? Jesus. These people don't live on the same planet as us.

    Paige has the 18th largest subscriber count on Twitch currently. 17,000 paid subscriptions. Those subscribers pay $5 a month, of which Paige gets half. So about 42k a month, just streaming.

    Thats also ignoring any donations, sponsorships, etc. Cameos, Youtube channels, etc

    You can absolutely see why some people will freak at this. Losing the gut-ends of half a million a year....


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,677 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Is it? WWE wrestlers aren't exactly famous for standing up for themselves. The most we'll see is a few passive aggressive tweets.

    Well the wwe wrestlers will have to grow a spine it sounds like. We know for a fact that Jesse Ventura tried to start a union on wwe until the orange ego hulk hogan ratted him out to Vince. There is differing views on how solid the wwe talent contracts are and in one instance apparently if they were challenged the wrestlers might win but the thing is wwe and it’s legal dept would fight it and they have the resources to fight it.

    Maybe AJ styles who seems to have standing and is on twitch I believe could go to bat for his colleagues. He’s safe and he’s a Veteran.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Paige has the 18th largest subscriber count on Twitch currently. 17,000 paid subscriptions. Those subscribers pay $5 a month, of which Paige gets half. So about 42k a month, just streaming.

    Thats also ignoring any donations, sponsorships, etc. Cameos, Youtube channels, etc

    You can absolutely see why some people will freak at this. Losing the gut-ends of half a million a year....
    Would Paige be on a similar contract to the active roster where they basically can't leave? This is going to reshape how contracts are negotiated but you'd be sickened if there's no end in sight to one's current contract.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,434 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Every single independent contractor that signed with the WWE knew what they were signing up for and the more I think about it I have little sympathy for them if I'm being honest.

    I do feel they are being unfairly treated about their social media accounts however if they are using WWE copyrighted names and taking about WWE intellectual property while contracted to the WWE in any form on social media well then the WWE are very much entitled to there cut.


    Again it goes back to them knowing what they were signing up to when they joined the WWE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,126 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Well the wwe wrestlers will have to grow a spine it sounds like. We know for a fact that Jesse Ventura tried to start a union on wwe until the orange ego hulk hogan ratted him out to Vince. There is differing views on how solid the wwe talent contracts are and in one instance apparently if they were challenged the wrestlers might win but the thing is wwe and it’s legal dept would fight it and they have the resources to fight it.

    Maybe AJ styles who seems to have standing and is on twitch I believe could go to bat for his colleagues. He’s safe and he’s a Veteran.

    Unions seems to be an almost taboo thing in America. There would probably be a big split on those who want one and those who don't.

    The money they earn on Twitch should be theirs and WWE should piss off looking for a slice but with that said, these people are earning hundreds of thousands a year and in some cases, millions, so my heart doesn't bleed too much for them.

    Those parasocial relationships give me the creeps, if I'm honest. Streamers treating thousands of people like they're buddies (just pay me to acknowledge you first). Paige and Zelina saying nonsense like they've made thousands of friends from their Twitch community, give me a break. It's all very Black Mirror-y.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    A lot of Americans can't stand the idea of a collective having certain guaranteed protections so it's no wonder wrestlers have failed to stir the rest into a union. I'd say Styles would be the last person who would want a union.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    A lot of Americans can't stand the idea of a collective having certain guaranteed protections so it's no wonder wrestlers have failed to stir the rest into a union. I'd say Styles would be the last person who would want a union.

    Let's not pretend it's an American thing. You only have to say the word union here in Ireland too and you get the usual tropes bandied about - cant be fired, protecting older and sacrificing younger members, they do nothing etc etc etc.

    I'm by no means a socialist, but unions in general are derided by everyone not in them, it's a jealousy and begrudgery thing, so let's not pretend that it's only the bad Americans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,434 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    AJ commented on it last night.
    "I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what they expect from us when it comes to our channel. I don't know if it's something that they're like, 'We just want you guys under an umbrella like a WWE Twitch and have a set lineup and here is who is on when'. If that's the case - great! Then fans would know where and when to find us. I don't know if that's going to happen. I literally don't know, and unfortunately I found out the same way a lot of you did - through the internet, which is a shame."

    "You'd think it'd be better than that. For guys who are on here trying to, not only work for WWE, but get on here and Twitch and stuff like that, you'd think it'd be a lot easier to communicate with us and us alone instead of whoever it is behind the scenes and them going to Joe Blow and them having more information than us. Is anything set in stone? I don't think anything is. I think it's going to come down to communication."

    We don't get to see you; we don't get to talk to you; we don't get to do much. This is the next best thing. I don't know what they're hoping to get out of this. The communication has not been as great as we'd like. There's a lot of us who are all on the same page - we've talked to each other. We're facing the same thing. It's all doom and gloom or, 'Oh, that's all they want.' I feel like this is an opportunity for me and my channel to say, 'This is what's really going on' and debunk some stupid rumors that are going on."

    It sounds crazy, I know. Yes, we are [independent contractors]. Although, we have all these rules that we have to follow as if we are not independent contractors. That's a whole other can that you don't even want to open up, trust me. I don't want anyone else to open it up, to be honest with you. I know what's expected of me and I'd rather keep it that way. We just need to know exactly what they want when it comes to - we need to figure out what is needed of us when it comes to our platforms. It seems like a roundabout way to tell you I don't know what's going on.

    https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/news-aj-styles-finally-comments-wwe-taking-control-twitch-accounts


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,434 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Wrestlers have started closing down accounts and it looks like Paige might have quit she wrote a really great personal piece on it slamming the WWE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    The situation with Paige is more complex than for under twitch users under the WWE umbrella. She's trying to get into a bit of public grandstanding with a company that if they wanted to, could have sacked her at least twice. But of course the other side of that coin is that WWE have absolutely been looking out for themselves with their strangely kind treatment of Paige over the years.

    It's quite hard to see what will happen as I can't see them relenting on Paige as a special case twitch user. Mutual agreement to part ways incoming I imagine.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Paige:

    "There may be a time where I have to stop streaming. I'll have to walk away. If I have to leave, we have to make today and Saturday ****ing crazy. I've honestly gotten to the point where I cannot deal with this company anymore. Now I have to make a very important decision. I'm ****ing tired, man. I broke my ****ing neck twice, twice for this company. Over ****ing worked. I broke my ****ing neck twice for this company. They don't realize that this community isn't about subs. We build a community and family where this is an escape for a lot of people, including myself. I can't wrestle anymore. I was worked so hard in WWE that I can't wrestle anymore because my neck is ****ed. My whole dreams got taken away. I had to have something that fulfilled that huge ****ing void that I lost with wrestling. I couldn't wrestle anymore, something I lived and breathed since I was a fetus, and it got ripped away from me. I had to find something that I could fill a little bit of that and Twitch was a wonderful thing for me. It's such a wonderful place for me,"

    "I understand if they're like, 'you're wrestling every day and doing shows every day,' but I'm an injured wrestler. I get used for media stuff, sometimes, but at the end of the day, I'm in my house going ****ing crazy and I need something to keep me sane. Twitch was my escape. Right now, I'm just sitting on my ****ing ass. People think I should be thankful that I still have a ****ing job, and I am, but it doesn't mean I should be treated like ****ing ****. I had my neck taken away from me twice. You can't take away my Twitch too. I'm gonna keep streaming, we'll see how that goes," she said. "I haven't been used on TV in a year. This is our fun and where we can be ourselves. That's why we're here and on Twitch. We also have a wonderful community. What's the pocket change we're getting compared to the billions these people are getting? We're not hurting anybody or doing anything harmful, we're just having a good time. People are on YouTube, have merchandise, wrestling schools, and Twitch gets taken down?"

    (...)

    "People don't realize, I'm outspoken as ****. I will say how I feel, I don't care who you are. I will say how I feel because I don't like being walked all over."

    "you know what, I'm gonna start looking more into unionization. I've been learning about it by a unionization lawyer. This is bigger than Twitch, it's about taking ****ing control over your own life and not being controlled by anyone. I gave 10 years man. I poured my ****ing heart and soul into this. I had a bad couple of years like every mother****er has. I'm not the only one who is ****ing controversial around here. I'm not the only one. It's ****ng louder when it comes to me because I'm a ****ing female. I hate using that face because I'm a woman but it's because I'm a woman and women don't usually stand up for themselves."


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,881 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    She likes that asterisk key.
    What does she stream? Just herself talking or is it gaming?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,126 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Some fair points but her neck is fúcked because her family had her doing wrestling bumps at 13 years old, not because of WWE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Some fair points but her neck is fúcked because her family had her doing wrestling bumps at 13 years old, not because of WWE.

    I can't recall her having a particularly dangerous style in the ring.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,677 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Some fair points but her neck is fúcked because her family had her doing wrestling bumps at 13 years old, not because of WWE.

    Well didn’t she have scoliosis as a child ? I think She’s said she only discovered she had it when she signed with wwe or something like that. So while I agree wwe alone isn’t to blame because that road schedule wasn’t easy her neck was going to happen at some point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭montyrebel


    paige will be on onlyfans a day after she is fired


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,126 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    montyrebel wrote: »
    paige will be on onlyfans a day after she is fired

    She doesn't need to wait, Zelina is on there already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,187 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    J. Marston wrote: »
    She doesn't need to wait, Zelina is on there already.

    Yeah but Zelina has stated no nudes. What's the point so? :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭TimesArrow


    montyrebel wrote: »
    paige will be on onlyfans a day after she is fired

    Just had a look and Paige is only 28! Younger than a lot of the current roster. she’s been around forever It seems


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  • Registered Users Posts: 60,434 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Vince going to take a cut of Sasha's money from The Mandalorian I wonder.

    Maybe the reason she is credited by her real name is to stop the WWE taking a cut.


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