Beef price tracker 2

Good loser

Bass Reeves wrote: »

BS
The processors use Irish beef to force down the price of beef in the UK. That is what happened two years ago. The processors were hosting that they would get it down to 3/kg.

The hullabaloo has actually changed grading which has improved a bit. 3 years ago it was impossible to get a Friesian onto an O- not to mind an O=. Everything was being driven down to aP grade as processor's were packaging all the beef for the supermarkets so it was immaterial to them what an animal graded.

Conspiracy theory again. Mindless.

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Precedence over the last 40 years would indicate that there is absolutely no conspiracy theory outlandish enough regarding the antics of Irish beef processing.
To dismiss a point of fact from a very good poster with such belligerent blindness is the real definition of “mindless”.

The 20cent + breed bonus for o- grade is fully verifiable since the aftermath of the protest.
The effect of this outlined by Bass combined with live cattle going north and eastward across the watery divide has actually brought some competition between a cartel of processors (with identical quotes week on week still) is what’s keeping uk prices buoyant.

Because rules of basic economics are that it’s the cheapest beef that sets the bar for farmgate price not the most expensive.

It's business, farmers aren't unscrupulous enough to handle it.
Maybe the mindless conspiracy theories are right, maybe they're wrong but its childish to complain the way farmers do.
It's poor business practise to subsidise beef price from BPS and upsets the whole way that the market works. Any action that was taken by farmers didn't make a bit of difference to price, The balance of supply and demand has changed

Robson99

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not only winter finishing. From now on I intend to try to have all cattle slaughtered by end of September. Impossible to get cattle , Friesians especially to finish off autumn grass. You wod have them on 5-6kgs and they still would not be fleshing out. Put them in on silage and ration is not the answer either.

It's will be costing 3 day to feed cattle inside in a shed, outside on grass and ration for the Autumn it will be costing 2/day neither is sustainable so I be aiming to hand everything by end of September.

It one thing getting wet and dragging ration to trough's through mud. Losing money at it as well is stupidity.
As my mother use to say ''fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me''

Very true.
And a very good saying as well

Good loser

Jjameson wrote: »

The balance of supply yes. Demand remains largely consistent.
As does consumer price. So when you have processors and retailers profiteering when supply increases very marginally and no benefit for consumers who in turn pay farmers through their taxation even the corr brother would be hard preesed to make the truth any more “out there”!!!

It's basic economics that where supply and demand curves intersect the price is struck.
If demand is steady and supply falls prices rise and vice versa.
Surely you can see the simple fact that prices have risen by 50c per kilo in the last six months is down to scarcity.
Both the Irish price locally and the world price. And the UK price.

Nothing more complex than supply and demand. (Currency is a factor in both.)

wrangler

Good loser wrote: »

It's basic economics that where supply and demand curves intersect the price is struck.
If demand is steady and supply falls prices rise and vice versa.
Surely you can see the simple fact that prices have risen by 50c per kilo in the last six months is down to scarcity.
Both the Irish price locally and the world price. And the UK price.

Nothing more complex than supply and demand. (Currency is a factor in both.)

Such is the conspiracy theorists on here that if the cat had kittens the beef processors would be blamed.

Robson99

Any rise next week ?

richie123

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s no doubt farm gate supply is what gives the cartel control of farm gate price. A small increase of supply with no live exports and the whims of a cartel are where our”market” starts and stops.
And no tangible link whatsoever to consumer demand, currency fluctuations farm gate beef price any where else.

High volume low margin is a claim you and and few others special individuals have have repeatedly posted here.
A 360kg O= Angus steer is coming into in well in excess 1€ a kg more than two years ago. €360. Sterling is 3p to euro stronger.
And the rest came out of a rabbits hat. The consumer didn’t see the benefit 2 years ago of 75% price beef.
And paid out 300 million in special beef aid schemes since.
2 for farmers and 1 for processors.

Your saying the factory pocketed the difference?

Base price

30% increase in the live export of finished and store cattle so far this year.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/30-increase-in-live-exports-of-store-and-finished-cattle-632306

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

Your saying the factory pocketed the difference?

Between the Factories and the retailer's. Smaller retailer's and butchers paid the same wholesale for beef. It was interesting that Pat McDonnagh of Supermac's highlighted that at the time he was paying exactly the same for his beef products than before the cattle price fall.

While larger retailers may have benefited from the beef price fall, smaller retailer's, butchers, restaurants and fast food outlets did not.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Between the Factories and the retailer's. Smaller retailer's and butchers paid the same wholesale for beef. It was interesting that Pat McDonnagh of Supermac's highlighted that at the time he was paying exactly the same for his beef products than before the cattle price fall.

While larger retailers may have benefited from the beef price fall, smaller retailer's, butchers, restaurants and fast food outlets did not.

How do you know that processors are making money now, they could be losing money now, it's all speculation

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

How do you know that processors are making money now, they could be losing money now, it's all speculation

Why would you make a.loss greater. AA cattle answer your question as processor's chase them at any price. If they wanted throughput to cover costs they be casing cows and Friesian bullocks to cover costs

Grueller

wrangler wrote: »

How do you know that processors are making money now, they could be losing money now, it's all speculation

Now wrangler, you always said that business was business and those boys would shut down if losing money.

richie123

Jjameson wrote: »

Reputedly bears **** in the woods too Richie!

I'm sure they did more power to them.
Not a lot we can do about it

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Between the Factories and the retailer's. Smaller retailer's and butchers paid the same wholesale for beef. It was interesting that Pat McDonnagh of Supermac's highlighted that at the time he was paying exactly the same for his beef products than before the cattle price fall.

While larger retailers may have benefited from the beef price fall, smaller retailer's, butchers, restaurants and fast food outlets did not.

What are you trying to say ?

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

What are you trying to say ?

If you are losing money you reduce throughput. Two factory's near me have gone from 3-4 days. The other option is to aim for lower priced market and increase through put ( cows and Friesian bullocks).

They have access to CMS, they know how many cattle are there. They know the percentage's what AA, HE, and continental cattle are there, as well as p grade compared to R grade.

The action is with AA cattle not with R+ grade charly or U grade LM cattle.

When you have the information you can use it. They are still making money

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

Now wrangler, you always said that business was business and those boys would shut down if losing money.

Do you think they change the price according to cattle price, we see here that pat Mc Donagh is paying the same all year.
Do you not thinkl that lamb processors stay trading in expensive spring lamb just to make a killing in the autumn. i'd say they make very little money in the spring but have to stay in to take advantage of farmers in the autumn when there's no where else to go with lamb
Processors have to hold shelf space whether they make money or not, Contracts are negotiated months before. They can't just dip and out of beef processing, they have to have continuity. Just because they lose money for a couple months it doesn't mean they won't have a very good annual profit

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you are losing money you reduce throughput. Two factory's near me have gone from 3-4 days. The other option is to aim for lower priced market and increase through put ( cows and Friesian bullocks).

They have access to CMS, they know how many cattle are there. They know the percentage's what AA, HE, and continental cattle are there, as well as p grade compared to R grade.

The action is with AA cattle not with R+ grade charly or U grade LM cattle.

When you have the information you can use it. They are still making money

Agreed and they're very good at it too.

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

Agreed and they're very good at it too.

I send a 30-36 months old AA bullock in last week to an ABP factory. What was he retailed at. Will he go as generic beef to Dunnes, ASDA etc. Or will he be retailed as AA's steak's and mince in LIDL( who have an U36 month limit). I got no fooking bonus

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Do you think they change the price according to cattle price, we see here that pat Mc Donagh is paying the same all year.
Do you not thinkl that lamb processors stay trading in expensive spring lamb just to make a killing in the autumn. i'd say they make very little money in the spring but have to stay in to take advantage of farmers in the autumn when there's no where else to go with lamb
Processors have to hold shelf space whether they make money or not, Contracts are negotiated months before. They can't just dip and out of beef processing, they have to have continuity. Just because they lose money for a couple months it doesn't mean they won't have a very good annual profit

No Pat McDonagh said he saw no discount when prices fell in 2019. Now either he was very bad at bargaining, a man that took on McDonald's and won or there was an increase in margin somewhere.

Natural competition should prevail. It prevails in every mart accross the country but it fails bin beef.

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No Pat McDonagh said he saw no discount when prices fell in 2019. Now either he was very bad at bargaining, a man that took on McDonald's and won or there was an increase in margin somewhere.

Natural competition should prevail. It prevails in every mart accross the country but it fails bin beef.

He could be telling lies too how would anyone know bar his accounts team.
What's the bottom line here ?
Are anyone of us going out setting up a factory to take advantage of these savage returns factories are making ?
Theres no point talking bout this fullstop
We'd all do the exact same if we were in the same position.

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

He could be telling lies too how would anyone know bar his accounts team.
What's the bottom line here ?
Are anyone of us going out setting up a factory to take advantage of these savage returns factories are making ?
Theres no point talking bout this fullstop
We'd all do the exact same if we were in the same position.

Nobody came out to call him s liar. Processor's have there own lobby group set up. They all have voices to disprove a point.

I am sick about this set up a factory BS.

Nobody will deal with you unless you give them 60-90 days credit. Beef takes 21 days minimum to age( ask SuperValu they try to pawn off 14 day aged beef on us).

We are all here to make a margin. You more than most know the BS. As you posted you could not live in the kitchen. I no Saint. But I know this game cannot stay the same. Ordinary producers cannot continue to receive 10-40c/ kg less than other mortals. I was quoted and had to take it 4.15 on the grid for 4 bullocks last week. I had to rush them out as they were all going over one age threshold or another

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Nobody came out to call him s liar. Processor's have there own lobby group set up. They all have voices to disprove a point.

I am sick about this set up a factory BS.

Nobody will deal with you unless you give them 60-90 days credit. Beef takes 21 days minimum to age( ask SuperValu they try to pawn off 14 day aged beef on us).

We are all here to make a margin. You more than most know the BS. As you posted you could not live in the kitchen. I no Saint. But I know this game cannot stay the same. Ordinary producers cannot continue to receive 10-40c/ kg less than other mortals. I was quoted and had to take it 4.15 on the grid for 4 bullocks last week. I had to rush them out as they were all going over one age threshold or another

They don't need a lobby group to disprove a point, there's no one threatening their business so they don't need to defend anything.
There's a small factory here beside me, started as a butcher in the 70s. There was 50+ cars in the car park last time I passed. So much for putting small abbatoirs out of business

cute geoge

The smalll butchers are just as big as crooks as Larry !!

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Nobody came out to call him s liar. Processor's have there own lobby group set up. They all have voices to disprove a point.

I am sick about this set up a factory BS.

Nobody will deal with you unless you give them 60-90 days credit. Beef takes 21 days minimum to age( ask SuperValu they try to pawn off 14 day aged beef on us).

We are all here to make a margin. You more than most know the BS. As you posted you could not live in the kitchen. I no Saint. But I know this game cannot stay the same. Ordinary producers cannot continue to receive 10-40c/ kg less than other mortals. I was quoted and had to take it 4.15 on the grid for 4 bullocks last week. I had to rush them out as they were all going over one age threshold or another

I do know the bs.too many lads complain about the factories.
Theres a simple solution
Lease the land and get a full-time job.
That's it..I dont give out about factories anymore because you cant on one hand give out and then turn around and do the same thing again,produce beef at a loss and let factories ride you.
It's a dying industry.
Death by a 1000 cuts
This latest price rise is a blip,
I hope I'm wrong.

Danzy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I send a 30-36 months old AA bullock in last week to an ABP factory. What was he retailed at. Will he go as generic beef to Dunnes, ASDA etc. Or will he be retailed as AA's steak's and mince in LIDL( who have an U36 month limit). I got no fooking bonus

I hope no one messed up in the factory and put the choice cuts in with under 30m Polly heifer.

Bigbird1

Took 4.20 the week before last couldn't get another cent, the same evening Agriland stated that 4.30 was easily got.

DukeCaboom

Bigbird1 wrote: »

Took 4.20 the week before last couldn't get another cent, the same evening Agriland stated that 4.30 was easily got.

From talking to agents (who are ringing me for a change) its actually been a long time since I've seen such a variation in prices up and down the country the last month. Its actually been as much as 30 cent in places.

Cattle are only this week starting to kill well.

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

Lidl and Aldi told a group of us (and later kpmg) that they pay the same up to 36 months and there’s no difference in how it comes to them.
All the others either stonewalled or gave very vague nonsensical answer spouting consumer demand as being the reason but provided no evidence of this or whether they even differentiate on the shelf at all.

This is the real answer. There is a load of HE and especially AA meat/ beef that may be appearing on shelves that we are not paid for. This is whether it over 36 months of grading O-

Good loser

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you are losing money you reduce throughput. Two factory's near me have gone from 3-4 days. The other option is to aim for lower priced market and increase through put ( cows and Friesian bullocks).

They have access to CMS, they know how many cattle are there. They know the percentage's what AA, HE, and continental cattle are there, as well as p grade compared to R grade.

The action is with AA cattle not with R+ grade charly or U grade LM cattle.

When you have the information you can use it. They are still making money

You're getting more and more fantastical Bass in your speculations (hallucinations?).
Life is a lot simpler than you admit.

I sent in a cow/heifer last year under age expecting at least €1,000.
She came home an hour later as cows were not being killed that day.
A week later, still under 30 months, she graded O5 and I got €650 for her.
Lesson learned.

There are tricks and turns in every business.
Don't magnify them beyond what's justified.
Conspiracy theories are for the weak-minded.

Butcher Boy

cute geoge wrote: »

The smalll butchers are just as big as crooks as Larry !!

Did you get caught by one of them or what.