Problem viewing Glasnevin records

Hermy

I'm having an issue with records I've paid for at the Glasnevin Trust website.

If I click to view any of them it just returns a blank where the entry would normally appear.

Just wondering if anyone else is having the same issue before I email them about it?

EDIT: I've just noticed searches for known interments aren't returning anything either.

BowWow

Just tried.
Signed in ok, but same as you - blank page for any records I could see previously.

Hermy

Thanks for checking BowWow.

I'll email them about it on the morrow.

tenterfields

Any explanation from Glasnevin Trust? Site still seems not to be functioning. I tried a search on a known burial but it came back with zero results.

Hermy

I've been offline since I posted that so I haven't sent that email.

I'll send it off shortly and let you know if I hear anything back from them.

Hermy

Lynn has just been in touch to say there was a major outage last week and that it could be another week before the system is fully up and running again.

pinkypinky

Thanks for that report, Hermy.

tenterfields

Thanks Hermy.

BowWow

Not working for me yet.

bobbyy gee

snip

pinkypinky

Bobbyy gee: please only post relevant content.

mindhorn

Is the site ok for anybody else? First time trying it this morning and the search function doesn't seem to be working.

Hermy

I'm seeing a message on-screen saying that the database isn't currently accessible.

mindhorn

Has it worked since your opening post?

Hermy

I haven't tried it because to the best of my knowledge they haven't fixed it yet.

BowWow

From their website -

"Genealogy Search
Please note that you cannot access the genealogy database at this time. Our technical team is working to fix the issue, and we sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused."

pinkypinky

I was in touch with Lynn about this 2 weeks ago (after Hermy) and she thought it would be fixed by the end of that week, which it obviously wasn't.

I know that a big overhaul of their genealogy site is in the offing. Wonder if they just decided to use this fault downtime to finish it off and will start afresh? That's my hopeful thinking.

tenterfields

Is there any update on when the Glasnevin site is likely to be back?

pinkypinky

I checked with them today. They have no current timeframe for getting the database online - lots of problems of a technical nature.

Hermy

Two months and still no word.

Thanks for checking.

BowWow

This is certainly taking it's time. I have a short list of burials to check now.

Was supposed to be fixed in first week of October - obviously a very serious issue...

mindhorn

Still down. Has anyone heard anything from them?

Hermy

Not a thing unfortunately.

pinkypinky

Nothing since I last checked (gosh, almost 2 months ago). I don't want to be bothering them. They know there's a problem and I'm sure if it could be online, it would be, since it generates money for them.

BowWow

"Genealogy Search
Thank you for your patience while we work to rectify the ongoing issue with our genealogy service as well providing enhanced search features. We expect that this will become available in the coming weeks. For any genealogy queries, please contact our resident genealogist Lynn on lbrady@glasnevintrust.ie"

pinkypinky

That's encouraging.

Mick Tator

pinkypinky wrote: »

That's encouraging.

No it is not!
Sorry Pinky, I disagree. That site is down almost FIVE months. It is an absolute disgrace. It is not good enough for a body that (per its own mission statement!) “…… operates on the premise that a high quality of customer service is derived from committed and compassionate employees working together to provide the best standard of carewhether it be through assisting with public inquiries ……”

Glasnevin Trust is in receipt of major public funding, Board Failte grants, etc. – we the taxpayers pay! Glasnevin was allocated €25 million under a 10 year programme as part of the National Development Plan in 2006. On this project to date they have spent and received funding back through OPW of €12.5m

What is wrong with ‘officialdom’ and basic IT/customer service?
We have seen failure after failure – Garda PULSE system does not work properly; the Company Registration office system does not work properly (and the new system they are implementing is not working). Of the (about) 50,000 computers in the HSE, about 40,000 are dependent on old software and 12,000 of those cannot be replaced because they are needed to run radiology and other systems that cannot run on newer software.

The list goes on, and on…….

pinkypinky

I am encouraged that we might have it back soon, not that it's been down for so long without explanation.

Hermy

Mick Tator wrote: »

That site is down almost FIVE months. It is an absolute disgrace. It is not good enough for a body that (per its own mission statement!) “…… operates on the premise that a high quality of customer service is derived from committed and compassionate employees working together to provide the best standard of carewhether it be through assisting with public inquiries ……”

I hope you've made you're feelings known to the good folk at Glasnevin Trust.

Mick Tator

Hermy wrote: »

I hope you've made you're feelings known to the good folk at Glasnevin Trust.

No, not to them because I've given up on that site. My issue is another example of rubbish service from a state funded body. Were I to write it would be to the Minister with responsibility for the OPW and put the Chairman of the Glasnevin Trust on copy. BUT the website says the Chairman is David Bunworth, the latest annual report online is 2018 and it names somebody else. There is only one email address, info@ so an email would be binned, no underling would pass it ‘up the line’. The way to go is a Parliamentary Question and embarrass the minister publicly.

Mr.Patrick O’Donovan TD has been a politician for almost his entire adult life. He is Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works since July 2020. Prior to that gig he served as Minister of State at the Department of Finance and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform with special responsibility for Public Procurement, Open Government and eGovernment, from June 2017 until June 2020. Open Government and eGovernment? and a venture under his control takes five months to fix an IT issue? Ooooh wait, he used to have special responsibility for Public Procurement……….. anyone recall, when under his rule there was a Public Procurement fiasco for PPE at the inception of Wave 1 of Covid?

Glasnevin Trust has a board of about a dozen people but only two female directors. Why? The annual report is very opaque on financials and shows little on corporate governance, not even how long the directors have served. Why? The available accounts are from 2018. Why? Where is the accountability? The directors probably are nice people but none should be allowed in office for more than 5 years and they should be paid for their work. It seems they are not at the moment for a ridiculous number of meetings.

If it’s not fixed by month end remind me and I promise I’ll write:)

PS I’d bet Lyn Brady is pulling her hair out in frustration, at a time when people would, during lockdown, be using the PPV aspects.
PPS - Mods - move this to Chat if you wish.

pinkypinky

I would send Lyn a copy of this thread! I only talked to her once by email about this and she did sound frustrated then.

What about a letter in the Irish Times?

Mick Tator

pinkypinky wrote: »

I would send Lyn a copy of this thread! I only talked to her once by email about this and she did sound frustrated then.

What about a letter in the Irish Times?

IT is not a topic for the Irish Times at the moment, they generally will publish only as a result of their own articles. That might happen soon, as today's news has Revenue apologising for a breakdown in their IT systems , unable to cope with Brexit documentation. And we know how long Revenue had to prepare for that!

tabbey

I fail to see why you blame the office of public works and Patrick O'Donovan. Glasnevin received the money during the boom, for the purpose of gravestone restoration. The fact that the cemetery is situated in the constituency of the then taoiseach was a factor.
Since the bubble burst, glasnevin has received very little state funding.
Glasnevin always seemed a happy and helpful place when George was the boss there. That seems to be changing and covid is not helping. I feel great sympathy for Lynn as she has always been helpful and it is not her fault that there is a computer fault.

Mick Tator

tabbey wrote: »

I fail to see why you blame the office of public works and Patrick O'Donovan. Glasnevin received the money during the boom, for the purpose of gravestone restoration. The fact that the cemetery is situated in the constituency of the then taoiseach was a factor.
Since the bubble burst, glasnevin has received very little state funding.
Glasnevin always seemed a happy and helpful place when George was the boss there. That seems to be changing and covid is not helping. I feel great sympathy for Lynn as she has always been helpful and it is not her fault that there is a computer fault.

Hi Tabby,
I’m not blaming Lynn. You are missing the point.

A business is governed by a hierarchy - frontline staff, management, directors. It is the role of the directors (taking into account the wishes of and promises to the shareholders) to set the rules of operation in play, execute them and ensure all works. The buck stops at the top.
The Board, reporting to the Minister in charge (OPW) also represents the interests of the shareholders, i.e. us, the taxpayer. All fail when the business does not meet its objectives.

The IT system at Glasnevin Trust (GT), is broken and has been allowed to remain in that state for nearly five months. The executive management has failed to ensure it has been fixed and the board and minister apparently have taken a back seat. Furthermore, GT is overdue in publishing its accounts/annual report, as the last available is from 2018. That contains considerable business jargon (waffle) and aspirations. For example, on page 18 it states:
<<Key priorities have been identified for the period to 2023 summarised as follows:
1 Development of the Core Business
2 Build on the Cultural, Heritage, Education and Tourism components of Glasnevin Trust
3 Consolidate upon existing partnerships and build new stakeholder relationships
4 Review our internal governance and organisational structure to ensure the most effective operation of the Trust’s activities and facilitate robust and quality governance and leadership
5 Increase our public profile via Marketing and public relations activities>>

It is unclear how much money is brought in from the online business (probably very small), but a broken IT system conflicts with GT’s achievement of the majority of those objectives particularly in an era of Covid. It also has a major impact on image and as a result, GT is suffering reputational damage.

Cash/funds is not an issue for GT – in 2018 it had revenue of €9,902,92, expenditure of €9,614,397, so a profit of about €300k. It also has reserves of €19,632,903 (yes, about €20 million).

Whether or not Glasnevin is a happy place or has nice staff is immaterial. We are discussing an online presence, a key element of any modern business, one, if broken in a private business, would have been fixed in hours or at maximum a couple of days, or heads would roll. Instead, we are looking at broken functionality for nearly five months. From a management or corporate governance perspective it is a major ‘fail’ and simply is not good enough from a business in receipt of public funding.

BowWow

We're going way off topic here, but I've always thought that the Glasnevin Trust was a private, not for profit, company/charity. I fail to see how it reports to the Minister in Charge of the OPW?
They certainly got Public funds (once off?) coming up to 2016 and spent it well on new footpaths and grave restorations - doubt they are in receipt of regular public funding.
It's a well run business, in normal times operating a major tourist attraction in addition to their regular business of burials and cremations.

In the current issue, the failure of part of the website, I've contacted them and can sense the staff frustration. I understand that it was a major issue and not solvable quickly as initially hoped. They have helped me with queries without looking for payment.
I, for one, look forward to the return of the enhanced facility.

pinkypinky

Glasnevin Trust is a registered charity and states they are a not for profit organisation their website.

They have an IT manager according to their organisation flow chat in the 2018 annual report. That person is who should do the explaining. However, I suspect they're not obliged to tell people what's been going wrong.

Mick Tator is right that a private company would have had this fixed a lot sooner. I'm quite sure they've lost out on lots of revenue. Certainly, in my work, there's been several times since September that I had to tell a client I couldn't get a grave record for them in Glasnevin.

Mick Tator

BowWow wrote: »

We're going way off topic here, but I've always thought that the Glasnevin Trust was a private, not for profit, company/charity. I fail to see how it reports to the Minister in Charge of the OPW?
They certainly got Public funds (once off?) coming up to 2016 and spent it well on new footpaths and grave restorations - doubt they are in receipt of regular public funding.
It's a well run business, in normal times operating a major tourist attraction in addition to their regular business of burials and cremations.

In the current issue, the failure of part of the website, I've contacted them and can sense the staff frustration. I understand that it was a major issue and not solvable quickly as initially hoped. They have helped me with queries without looking for payment.
I, for one, look forward to the return of the enhanced facility.

All from their (out of date) annual report:-
Glasnevin Trust is the registered business name and operating name of The Dublin Cemeteries Committee (DCC) a body corporate established under The Dublin Cemeteries Committee Act 1970
The Dublin Cemeteries Committee is a registered charity
.………the Trust invested massively in the visitor centre and undertook a huge renovation programme with the help of the Government through the OPW.
……….We continued, in association with the Office of Public Works, the Glasnevin Cemetery Restoration project. We were allocated €25 million under a 10 year programme as part of the National Development Plan in 2006. On this project to date we have spent and received funding back through OPW of €12.5m with €250,000 in 2018. The project has been extended into 2019 and we are grateful for the continued support of the OPW.
The principal funding sources are:
•Income from burials, grave sales and cremations
•Income from tours of Glasnevin Cemetery
•Merchandise income•Support from Monument Works and Florists trading
•Statutory funding through OPW and Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht
•Fundraising is a very small element of our funding but we hope to grow this in the future
(My emphasis in the above)

Just because DCC is a charity does not absolve it from respecting commercial reality, effective corporate governance and providing an efficient service to stakeholders. No doubt all are nice people (and the directors do the gig gratis) but that is not the point. All organisations that receive State funding should be fit for purpose.

mindhorn

Five weeks since they updated the message on their website and nearly six months since Hermy started this thread. Curious as to what the ongoing issue actually is.

BowWow

The Glasnevin site was down all Patrick's day - hopefully an indication that they are fixing/updating it?

Garlinge

Oh dear! I have a lot of records that I paid for but did not take copy of as the site kept them.

Mick Tator

As promised I have sent a strongly-worded letter to Minister O'Donovan.

Hermy

Good man Mick - fair play!

pinkypinky

Well done!
Looking forward to hearing what civil servant response you get

tenterfields

Well, the website has been updated and it looks as if the genealogy search facility is operating again at long last. However, when I logged in there was no account history. The results of the many searches I have made and paid for have apparently been wiped. I have contacted Glasnevin to inquire. Anybody else have any information?

pinkypinky

Yep. Spoke to Lynn today. It will be finished next week. We'll get an email to do a password reset and our previously purchased stuff should be there.

Hermy

Great stuff folks - thanks for the update.

Mick Tator

pinkypinky wrote: »

Well done!
Looking forward to hearing what civil servant response you get

Had a personalised acknowledgement today from the Minister's Priv.Sec., said a detailed response will issue later. That's decent, but the site isn't working for me (on Firefox) as of now.

BowWow

Mick Tator wrote: »

Had a personalised acknowledgement today from the Minister's Priv.Sec., said a detailed response will issue later. That's decent, but the site isn't working for me (on Firefox) as of now.

Try this in your browser bar -

https://www.dctrust.ie/genealogy/home.html

Mollymoo19

Woo-hoo!

though previous records purchased from the old site are not showing. I could not place a new order either,

(sorry, hadn't see the updates from yesterday, when I responded)

pinkypinky

I was talking to Lynn and she advised that next week everyone will get a reset password link and once you do that, it will import all previous purchases.

BowWow

Just searched for, found and purchased a single record, all worked ok.