How bad is Eastern Europe etc

PTH2009

just curious how bad is Eastern Europe if we're getting so much migration too here of all places

Is it over populated and jobs are hard to come by ?
They seem large countries with the same service's as us

yenom

I found it to be a grand spot for a visit. No loud mouth British in football jerseys causing hassle. They don't put up with that kind of thing.

Nigel Fairservice

The pay in Ireland is higher. An Eastern European friend said to me once that their job back home only covered their living expenses. In Ireland a job can cover your living expenses plus a bit more. Trying to quantify the bit more part is hard as it depends on your job/pay. I'd imagine moving from a lower cost economy in Eastern Europe to Ireland would be a bit of a shock financially speaking due to the cost of living here. As the economies of Eastern Europe continue to develop Ireland will probably lose some of its appeal. I've been to much of Eastern Europe and liked it for the most part. Slovenia was probably my favourite.

biko

Generally great places. I haven't been everywhere but where I've been I have enjoyed visiting.

Your Face

It depends exactly where in Eastern Europe one is talking about.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Generally, the further east you go the lower the standards of employemtn. Czech, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia would be grand. Bulgaria, Romania, former Russian states (possibly with the exception of Ukraine - not sure about) would be lower. Belaurs would probably be the worst. Poland and the Baltics - somewhere in the middle (Estonia seems prtty solid though)

HalloweenJack

I taught English in Brno in the Czech Republic back in 2011/2012.

It's a decent-sized city. There's a good amount of IT companies there and there's a good bit of industry. It's not a poor place at all. It's not Prague either, though, where things are more expensive and more exciting. I earned about €600 a month and I never had to worry about not having enough. About half of that went on rent (which many told me was expensive for where I was). It was a comfortable enough life but any time I came home, I noticed the difference. A pint there could be had for €1.20 which doesn't compare to paying between €4 and €5 at the time.

Saving a decent amount of money was the big problem. Whatever you could save didn't go very far as soon as you left. The Czech Republic is one of the more stable Eastern Europe countries. Public transport is pretty good and accomodation in that there is a lot of both, though it is dated. The problem is the money that can be earned for the majority, not that those opportunities don't exist.

completedit

Just normal, at least in the main cities. You can make good money in Prague(not really eastern Europe-more west than Vienna) and Sofia too, just depends on your sector.

theguzman

A couple years working here in minimum wage jobs will let you build a house back home in Eastern Europe, we tend to get alot of the under-educated working class Eastern Europeans who come here to do the hard graft, wheras a Solicitor in Poland isn't going to be coming here to wash cars or do housekeeping in hotels etc. Its the typical story of immigration everywhere, work abroad, save money for your future and to provide for parents and family.

JupiterKid

I’ve travelled a fair bit around Eastern Europe in my 20s and it has some truly amazing places - Budapest, the old town of Prague, the Dalmatian coast, the Tatra Mountains between Slovakia and Poland, the majesty of St. Petersburg.

It has its good and bad parts, but is highly differentiated and generally is more prosperous the closer to the boundary with Western Europe. Much of what we in Ireland see as “Eastern Europe” - Czechia, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia and Hungary - is geographically and culturally more Central Europe.

The women get more beautiful the further east you go..

Richard Hillman

Some of the places are a bit like Ireland in the 90s. They were coming out of economic ruin and things are starting to come along nicely.

I have noticed a lot of people I have become aquanted with over the years have recently returned home to places like Poland, Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary.

I suppose we here in Ireland are at the tipping point of having reduced disposable income year in year out. Whereas life is becoming more comfortable within their homelands.

I have been to a few Iron Curtain Countries. I find them very pleasant places. Very safe, lovely people and good beer. I definitely feel safer there than I would do in places in Germany, Italy and France.

Kylta

Deleted User wrote: »

The women get more beautiful the further east you go..

Were dublin, louth or wicklow, better not leave out meath

breezy1985

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Generally, the further east you go the lower the standards of employemtn. Czech, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia would be grand. Bulgaria, Romania, former Russian states (possibly with the exception of Ukraine - not sure about) would be lower. Belaurs would probably be the worst. Poland and the Baltics - somewhere in the middle (Estonia seems prtty solid though)

Estonia are after attracting alot of big online companies like TransferWise , Twitter and the online betting companies. I have a fair few English speaking friends doing well over there working in tech support

ancapailldorcha

PTH2009 wrote: »

just curious how bad is Eastern Europe if we're getting so much migration too here of all places

Is it over populated and jobs are hard to come by ?
They seem large countries with the same service's as us

Poland is the only country I've been to that I actively dislike. Was a horrible place to visit. The rest of them are wonderful and have very interesting histories based on those I've visited.

whisky_galore

Found those countries and their cities easy, cheap and very safe to get around. Most places were neat, litter free and well looked after.

Unlike here no nackery kids throwing fireworks, burnt out cars or benefits underclass perpetually making trouble. They can do apartment living without going down the Ballymun dystopia road.

Nigel Fairservice

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

The pay in Ireland is higher. An Eastern European friend said to me once that their job back home only covered their living expenses. In Ireland a job can cover your living expenses plus a bit more. Trying to quantify the bit more part is hard as it depends on your job/pay. I'd imagine moving from a lower cost economy in Eastern Europe to Ireland would be a bit of a shock financially speaking due to the cost of living here. As the economies of Eastern Europe continue to develop Ireland will probably lose some of its appeal. I've been to much of Eastern Europe and liked it for the most part. Slovenia was probably my favourite.

I worked with a Polish guy back in 2005. He was earning same as me so about 20k a year and was sending money home to his mother. She was concerned he wasn't eating enough because he could send over so much money to her.

I moved to the Czech Republic in 2009. Lifestyle was great. Went out in the evening 3-4 times a week. While the wages compared to here are so much lower, life in general is a lot cheaper. I met a french couple while over there who had been living in Dublin until the downturn in 2008/2009. Their experience of both places was similar to my own, in that in Ireland you went out once a week at most but if your ipod/laptop/phone needed replacing you went out and replaced it. In Czechia you could afford to go out 3-4 times a week but if something expensive needed replacing, you had to save up for it, probably over a few months.

Over there, my budget for a friday night sesh was about 20 euros. 5 or 6 pints, dinner, see a stripper, have a few games of pool and a taxi home.

The 10% deposit I need to save in Ireland would buy me a home in full in some parts of Czechia, Slovakia, Poland etc.

So to answer the OP, living a frugal life in Ireland you can save up a meaningful amount of money that will set you up in Eastern Europe. That's why people want to come here.

ancapailldorcha

The FNG wrote: »

I found Poland great. Can I ask where you went and what you disliked?

Krakow. Couldn't get any info from staff at museums, couldn't get served at restaurants and the only person I encountered who was remotely civil was the woman shilling for a stripclub.

HalloweenJack

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I taught English in Brno in the Czech Republic back in 2011/2012.

It's a decent-sized city. There's a good amount of IT companies there and there's a good bit of industry. It's not a poor place at all. It's not Prague either, though, where things are more expensive and more exciting. I earned about €600 a month and I never had to worry about not having enough. About half of that went on rent (which many told me was expensive for where I was). It was a comfortable enough life but any time I came home, I noticed the difference. A pint there could be had for €1.20 which doesn't compare to paying between €4 and €5 at the time.

Saving a decent amount of money was the big problem. Whatever you could save didn't go very far as soon as you left. The Czech Republic is one of the more stable Eastern Europe countries. Public transport is pretty good and accomodation in that there is a lot of both, though it is dated. The problem is the money that can be earned for the majority, not that those opportunities don't exist.

I'm pretty sure I met you in the Immigrant in Brno in 2012.

ancapailldorcha

The FNG wrote: »

I was in Gdansk and Sopot and basically had the opposite experience. People were nice. Maybe more of a big city attitude in Krakow?

I tend to stick to cities and this is the only Eastern European one I couldn't find anything nice to say about it. I had a much better time in any other country I've been to.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I tend to stick to cities and this is the only Eastern European one I couldn't find anything nice to say about it. I had a much better time in any other country I've been to.

My experience of Krakow was the opposite of yours. Had a really great time there.

WesternZulu

I have been to a few places in Eastern Europe if your definition of Eastern Europe stretches to places that were formerly part of Yugoslavia.
I've been to Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, and Montenegro.

They're all great places to visit, particularity enjoyed Montenegro and Lithuania. Bosnia and Herzegovina were a very underdeveloped however.

I wouldn't live in any of them though, there is an obvious difference in development in all of the countries I visited compared to Ireland that became more apparent once you left the cities and visited more rural areas.

From working abroad and renting to a lot of eastern europeans the two things that attract them

More money for returning to home. They save 10% of their Irish money and after a few years, they have a sizable deposit for a house back home or they send money home and it's going a lot lot further.

Life experience. Young and exploring the world, practising English in a business environment will improve their careers.


I personally have never understood the dread about leaving home. Millions do it every year and never look back. Others return home but with great memories.

DangerScouse

theguzman wrote: »

A couple years working here in minimum wage jobs will let you build a house back home in Eastern Europe, we tend to get alot of the under-educated working class Eastern Europeans who come here to do the hard graft, wheras a Solicitor in Poland isn't going to be coming here to wash cars or do housekeeping in hotels etc. Its the typical story of immigration everywhere, work abroad, save money for your future and to provide for parents and family.

Yeap. Dated a Hungarian girl years ago who worked here in a beauty salon for 5 years and saved up enough to buy outright a brand new house in Hungary.

I find eastern european people in general to be fantastic and love their work ethic (much like the Irish in that regard) and have high family values. They are mostly also deeply proud nationalists which is to be greatly admired.

XsApollo

Edit : scratch that.
Too lazy

Lawlesz

I have been living in 'eastern' Europe for the best part of 10 years, across 3 countries. It's grand. Bureaucracy can be a nightmare, a lot of government institutions are very old fashioned and painful to do business with, but in general the people are friendly and helpful, if a little stand offish at first. Salaries are much lower than home but cost of living also is much cheaper. I managed to buy a house here which I could never have done at home.

In general, don't believe everything you see or hear about the iron curtain, the countries are developing rapidly with much more western influence. Before coming here, my expectation was dreary Communist era apartments and damp and snow, and while there is plenty of old Communist architecture around, it is modernising fast.

Weather is also great, with warm summers and snowy winters, beautiful countryside, and as for the women...

breezy1985

DangerScouse wrote: »

Yeap. Dated a Hungarian girl years ago who worked here in a beauty salon for 5 years and saved up enough to buy outright a brand new house in Hungary.

I find eastern european people in general to be fantastic and love their work ethic (much like the Irish in that regard) and have high family values. They are mostly also deeply proud nationalists which is to be greatly admired.

I wouldn't be too fond of some of the nationalists knocking around Poland and Hungary at the moment

Seamai

The FNG wrote: »

I was in Gdansk and Sopot and basically had the opposite experience. People were nice. Maybe more of a big city attitude in Krakow?

Krakow is probably the Polish city most visited by foreigners and like many places where tourism has become one of the main money spinners tourists are often just about tolerated.
I liked Krakow but not the people, the city has a wealth of history and considers itself Poland's cultural capital so maybe they have a bit of a superiority complex. Warsaw ranks pretty much bottom of the list of cities I would like to revisit.

JupiterKid

Personally, I found Poland a lovely country and the Poles a warm and friendly, helpful people - much friendlier than the Czechs and Slovaks, IMO. Russians were as cold as ice, I found.

I made a few Polish friends from the time they worked with me in the early 2000s in Dublin and even though they've long since returned to Poland (one of my friends from Krakow saved furiously in Dublin and bought a large apartment in Krakow for cash - yes indeed!) we are still in touch and I've been over and stayed with two of them. The warmth and hospitality I was shown over there was wonderful.

The young women in Prague were stunning on the two occasions I visited there in 1999 and 2004. Real head turners - model-esque in their beauty. The Czech guys are so-so in their looks - they are often handsome and fit in thier 20s but many seem to let themselves go as they get older. Maybe that's because in Czechia and some other neighbouring countries - women outnumber men significantly - a legacy of World War 2 and the Iron Curtain, I believe.

Lawlesz

Lawlesz wrote: »

Weather is also great, with warm summers and snowy winters, beautiful countryside, and as for the women...

Thats something I miss. Proper discernible seasons.

The_Brood

You get paid more to come over here and take the dole money for no work than you do working full time at even average-paid jobs in several parts of Eastern Europe.

Let that sink in.

The_Brood

The_Brood wrote: »

You get paid more to come over here and take the dole money for no work than you do working full time at even average-paid jobs in several parts of Eastern Europe.

Let that sink in.

I was a software tester for a well known American software company. I earned 12k euro the first year. My partner at the time was a vulnerability manager in IBM and she earned less than that.

Versus here,186 a week in dole plus HAP. Is it any surprise people want to come here?

HalloweenJack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I met you in the Immigrant in Brno in 2012.

Haha, could be, though there was another Boards poster living out there and I met up with him a few times as well.

whisky_galore

A disappointment was Czech Rep.
Found Prague over touristed, stank of piss, BO and weed.
Heaps of homeless, but seemed to be harmless. None of that Dublin edginess and a fine city otherwise.

Budapest had shop assistants who would nearly throw the change and receipt at you they were that rude.

BuboBubo

Poland, nice to visit. Went to Krakow a few years ago, highly recommend it.

There are jobs in Poland, but the wages are poor compared to here. Red-tape and bribery are rampant (throwback to communist era) buying a car in Poland is more difficult than buying a house here!

Saving enough to buy a house, then moving back to Poland is common, others have bought homes here and will never return.

Expect to hear more eastern-european names in hurling and football circles in the coming years. Many have settled, enjoy the pace of life here, and have kids born here who will stay.

Sorry for generalising by using Poland as an example, I have some Polish friends I chat with regularly.

I've been to most "East European" countries, and what a diverse set of places they are. The Baltic
countries, in particular, are developing fast and align themselves more with Scandinavia. They are certainly immaculate, with high living standards, and with ever increasing prices. Sofia in Bulgaria is a splendid city, with a huge investment in exposing its historic underground city, a place where people really do respect their own environment. The Balkan countries have a great organic food scene, quite in tune with the "hipster" society. Last time I was in Hungary was 1996 and it was then a very hospitable place, in a quiet sort of way, which was enthusiastically opening up to tourism; however I believe it is quite the opposite now for some reason. I noticed back then that Budapest was a city of dog-lovers (people were bringing cats out too), and that if you were seen to admire or interact with people's pets, it went a long way and a conversation opener.

ohnonotgmail

The_Brood wrote: »

You get paid more to come over here and take the dole money for no work than you do working full time at even average-paid jobs in several parts of Eastern Europe.

Let that sink in.

EU citizens cannot just rock up to ireland and claim social welfare.

AndyBoBandy

Though not strictly Eastern Europe, Lithuania (one of the 3 Baltic States) is a fantastic place.

I lived there for 18 months while on a work assignment, and the capitol city Vilnius was fantastic. Great bars, great clubs, great restaurants, and great culture all round. (would put Dublin to shame in a lot of categories). People were incredibly friendly, and in the 18 months I was there, we were never hassled once by drunkards, or toe rags in general (we went out every weekend and simply didn't see any behaviour like this).

Before I went there I was expecting to enter an 80's style Soviet dystopia, but was quite shocked at how modern the place was.

I spent the first 9 months I was there single, and had a great time in that regard (women were incredibly friendly & beautiful)..... then the 2nd 9 months I was in a relationship with a girl. 10 years later we are still together. She followed me back to Ireland a few months after I left as she transferred from the Lithuanian office to her companies U.K. office (and got to be home based in Ireland).

For anyone that's never been, I'd highly recommend going for a long weekend if/when things get back to normal.

Below is a photo of a purely decorative lake in an immaculate city park in Bulgaria. It has notices "no swimming" and everybody heeds them. I reckon if that park were in Dublin it would be filled with scobes nesting about, throwing litter and adding some interesting colours to the water. I have not been to the Black Sea coast where most foreigners go, but the inland cities of Bulgaria have terrific civic landscapes which are hugely respected by the locals. It is very uplifting to visit likes of Sofia and Plovdiv, and I would recommend them for a nice city break which is about as affordable as you could get. If you are a history buff you are in for a treat.

The_Brood

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

EU citizens cannot just rock up to ireland and claim social welfare.

I assume that is sarcasm?

murpho999

whisky_galore wrote: »

Found those countries and their cities easy, cheap and very safe to get around. Most places were neat, litter free and well looked after.

Unlike here no nackery kids throwing fireworks, burnt out cars or benefits underclass perpetually making trouble. They can do apartment living without going down the Ballymun dystopia road.

Why do people put Ireland down at every opportunity?

Do you really think that Eastern European countries are utopias

Why mention one failed project Ballymun, that is now regenerated but not mention all the awful communist era tower blocks that you see all over?

A few incidents here of kids with fireworks and now the whole country is sh1t?

I actually think that Ireland is one of the best countries to live in with great scenery, attractions and normally a thriving social scene. I've lived abroad and I'm very happy to back here.

It's positives far outweigh the negatives. Plenty of foreigners like living here too.

Also, "Benefits underclass". What is this as people in Ireland don't receive "benefits".

breezy1985

The_Brood wrote: »

You get paid more to come over here and take the dole money for no work than you do working full time at even average-paid jobs in several parts of Eastern Europe.

Let that sink in.

Ya but you would have to live here with our very high cost of living so. It all relative.

I lived in London until last year and I found the cost of living there cheaper than Limerick

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

Below is a photo of a purely decorative lake in an immaculate city park in Bulgaria. It has notices "no swimming" and everybody heeds them. I reckon if that park were in Dublin it would be filled with scobes nesting about, throwing litter and adding some interesting colours to the water. I have not been to the Black Sea coast where most foreigners go, but the inland cities of Bulgaria have terrific civic landscapes which are hugely respected by the locals. It is very uplifting to visit likes of Sofia and Plovdiv, and I would recommend them for a nice city break which is about as affordable as you could get. If you are a history buff you are in for a treat.

So you've never seen the clear waters in the likes of Stephen's Green?

Seriously the stuff people come up with.

As far as I'm concerned my Eastern European travels have been Poland, Lithuania, Prague & Budapest.
Some lovely spots but I found a lot of the people dour, architecture outside city centres to be bleak and you see the same social problems there that you see everywhere else.

ohnonotgmail

The_Brood wrote: »

I assume that is sarcasm?

statement of fact

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/fc9c5e-operational-guidelines-for-deciding-officers-on-the-determination-of/#circumstances-giving-exemption-from-the-hrc-for-family-benefits-and-swa

The_Brood

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

statement of fact

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/fc9c5e-operational-guidelines-for-deciding-officers-on-the-determination-of/#circumstances-giving-exemption-from-the-hrc-for-family-benefits-and-swa

Well yeah they don't get it the literal very first day they step foot in Ireland, but those listed hurdles are very easily overcome and they know how to overcome them with great success.

ohnonotgmail

The_Brood wrote: »

Well yeah they don't get it the literal very first day they step foot in Ireland, but those listed hurdles are very easily overcome and they know how to overcome them with great success.

hmmm actual facts vs unsubstantiated nonsense. I wonder which i will believe.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

So you've never seen the clear waters in the likes of Stephen's Green?

Seriously the stuff people come up with.

As far as I'm concerned my Eastern European travels have been Poland, Lithuania, Prague & Budapest.
Some lovely spots but I found a lot of the people dour, architecture outside city centres to be bleak and you see the same social problems there that you see everywhere else.

Take a walk In the area from O'Connell Street towards Connolly Station. Have not come across anything like it in any other European city centre, east or west for that matter. So much of my own city is an absolute kip with under-educated people visibly deep in the sh1t of addiction, petty & worse crime.

Officer Giggles

I spent a week travelling across Albania. Shockingly poor country but the people couldn't have been nicer. Been to Hungary, Croatia, Montenegro and Slovenia, all lovely places

The_Brood

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

hmmm actual facts vs unsubstantiated nonsense. I wonder which i will believe.

I have no idea what ax you have to grind, but you should believe reality.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

Take a walk In the area from O'Connell Street towards Connolly Station. Have not come across anything like it in any other European city centre, east or west for that matter. So much of my own city is an absolute kip with under-educated people visibly deep in the sh1t of addiction, petty & worse crime.

Have you never seen people in Amsterdam. Especially around the back of Central Station.
Parts of Paris are no go areas.

Seriously, you mention one street and just focus on the junkies that you see and people then say that they're dominating the whole street whilst ignoring 80% of normal people walking around about their daily business.

I've had visitors come to visit me from abroad and they've all liked Dublin and felt safe and not one commented on people like you have.

ohnonotgmail

The_Brood wrote: »

I have no idea what ax you have to grind, but you should believe reality.

no axe to grind. just responding to nonsense.