Possibility of microbial life on Venus

iLikeWaffles

The Royal Astronomical Society are said to be making an announcement tomorrow. Rumours have been flying around about this, possibly being the discovery of life in our solar system. Namely on Venus.

There was a page pulled from the Earth Sky website, here is a cached version....

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AdUWrpm80WHsJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fearthsky.org%2F%3Fp%3D343883%20&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&fbclid=IwAR0ZAin4PwgL4_ui7e2upi_mTdFWT0VrLDU4f4MQ3ESCpug5Z8_4DttmKW4

The announcement will be featured on the Sky at Night tomorrow on BBC4.

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAstroSoc/posts/10158743402369521

Going live on Facebook at 4pm tomorrow.

AllForIt

Surprised this hasn't made news headlines.

If there is life in our own solar system in addition to ours on another planet then what does that say about the probability of life in the rest of the universe - highly likely I'd say.

iLikeWaffles

AllForIt wrote: »

Surprised this hasn't made news headlines.

If there is life in our own solar system in addition to ours on another planet then what does that say about the probability of life in the rest of the universe - highly likely I'd say.

It may do tomorrow just before the weather probably. If it is a peer reviewed announcement then it is a big deal!

Well it is already highly likely I would say. Even without there being a discovery in our Solar System, it would most definitely increase the odds of there being intelligent life elsewhere though.

iLikeWaffles

The Science Shed on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/scienceshed/posts/167178628320520

Press conference tomorrow afternoon.

iguana

AllForIt wrote: »

Surprised this hasn't made news headlines.

If there is life in our own solar system in addition to ours on another planet then what does that say about the probability of life in the rest of the universe - highly likely I'd say.

It's embargoed until this afternoon. Articles on this appeared on Friday, referring to an announcement on the 14th, and were taken down quickly.

I think the implication of life on our nextdoor neighbour increases the likelihood of more life in our solar system alone. I'd have thought it more likely for there to be life on moons like Europa, Enceladus or Callisto ahead of Venus. So if life has managed to come about in Venus, I think it increases the likelihood of it being possible on those moons.

US2

They found the chemical Phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus.

US2

US2 wrote: »

They found the chemical Phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus.

Yeah at levels far exceeding what would be expected naturally, at the "Habitable" zone of the atmosphere

iLikeWaffles

US2 wrote: »

They found the chemical Phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus.

Yes exactly lots of people hyping it up to beat the band! The levels they found would indicate microbial life, massive amounts of unnatural production i.e. a factory spewing it out could be the only other explanation.

If it is not microbial life then our understanding of how things work are about to come into question! Which is also a major deal - collectively we are not as smart as smart as we think we are.

US2

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Yes exactly lots of people hyping it up to beat the band! The levels they found would indicate microbial life, massive amounts of unnatural production i.e. a factory spewing it out could be the only other explanation.

If it is not microbial life then our understanding of how things work are about to come into question! Which is also a major deal - collectively we are not as smart as smart as we think we are.

It's very exciting either way. Really looking forward to this announcement.

iLikeWaffles

That cached page from post #1 working for anyone else? seems to have either expired or was pulled by google.

AMKC

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

The Royal Astronomical Society are said to be making an announcement tomorrow. Rumours have been flying around about this, possibly being the discovery of life in our solar system. Namely on Venus.

There was a page pulled from the Earth Sky website, here is a cached version....

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AdUWrpm80WHsJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fearthsky.org%2F%3Fp%3D343883%20&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&fbclid=IwAR0ZAin4PwgL4_ui7e2upi_mTdFWT0VrLDU4f4MQ3ESCpug5Z8_4DttmKW4

The announcement will be featured on the Sky at Night tomorrow on BBC4.

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAstroSoc/posts/10158743402369521

Going live on Facebook at 4pm tomorrow.

There is nothing on BBC 4 tomorrow about The Sky at Night. I just looked.

iLikeWaffles

AMKC wrote: »

There is nothing on BBC 4 tomorrow about The Sky at Night. I just looked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mk7h

Special report at 10.30pm

see third box on the right

Showing on Virgin as 10.30

Gooey Looey

This is huge news

TheIrishGrover

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah at levels far exceeding what would be expected naturally, at the "Habitable" zone of the atmosphere

That's the problem though: Terminology. I presume you mean non-biologically in that you mean that this was generated by living organisms.

"Not Natural" would lead many to believe this meant artificially.

Will be interesting to see alright. I put 50 euro on Paddy Power years ago about extraterrestrial life (conclusive proof of microbial life on Mars or Venus or Europa or wherever would pretty much mean life is abundant elsewhere is a distinctly average star can have live emerging on two planets.

Gooey Looey

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

That's the problem though: Terminology. I presume you mean non-biologically in that you mean that this was generated by living organisms.

"Not Natural" would lead many to believe this meant artificially.

Will be interesting to see alright. I put 50 euro on Paddy Power years ago about extraterrestrial life (conclusive proof of microbial life on Mars or Venus or Europa or wherever would pretty much mean life is abundant elsewhere is a distinctly average star can have live emerging on two planets.

Come on, tell us the rest of it..... What odds did you get?

I'm trying not to get excited.

The BAS have hyped up stories in the past.

Fred Cryton

If we find microbial life on Venus there is a high probability it is a cousin of ours. Bacteria can survive on Meteors between Earth and Mars & Venus.

It would still be sensational news if we confirm life can survive on other worlds.

TheIrishGrover

Can't even remember. Can't even log into account (It was about 10 years ago )

Here we go

iLikeWaffles

Phosphine gas confirmed!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-020-1174-4

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAstroSoc/videos/2812338679041927

presentation

I'm in love with Professor Jane now

iLikeWaffles

That is interesting... if the microbes are at 10% efficiency and sparse in terms of the rest of the make-up of Venus then there is a lot of them.

Aceandstuff

"Not abiologically" - So, we're going to find out if that means little ayy-LMAOs?

Phosphine level too high for photo-chemical.

Too high for thermo-dynamics...
By several orders of magnitude!!

Aceandstuff

"We are not claiming we have found life on Venus"

Aceandstuff

Aceandstuff wrote: »

"We are not claiming we have found life on Venus"

...but...

So a massively exotic new chemistry or microbes.

That last question kinda threw them. They don't know what biological process produces phosphine on earth.

One of the questions about Panspermia but it's even better to NOT be Panspermia. It's really important to be uniquely a Venus based life, to show that life can spontaneously develop in other solar systems.

Well sh1t's just got interesting...

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the questions about Panspermia but it's even better to NOT be Panspermia. It's really important to be uniquely a Venus based life, to show that life can spontaneously develop in other solar systems.

And that's what they said it would have to be unlike anything on earth.

iLikeWaffles

Deleted User wrote: »

That last question kinda threw them. They don't know what biological process produces phosphine on earth.

Which one, light and dark side?

Would only be able to look at the dark side of Venus efficiently from orbit of Venus.

Microbes thrive on Earth in the absence of Oxygen or by Industrial means.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/phosphine

Does anyone have a link to the press conference?

iLikeWaffles

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to the press conference?

The link is in the first post, can rewatch there:

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAstroSoc/videos/2812338679041927/

corcaigh1

AllForIt wrote: »

Surprised this hasn't made news headlines.

If there is life in our own solar system in addition to ours on another planet then what does that say about the probability of life in the rest of the universe - highly likely I'd say.

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this universe is teeming with life...

iguana

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well sh1t's just got interesting...

?

US2

Funny

iLikeWaffles

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

The link is in the first post, can rewatch there:

https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAstroSoc/videos/2812338679041927/

When I clicked on it, there was nothing showing. Thanks.

iLikeWaffles

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Which one, light and dark side?

Would only be able to look at the dark side of Venus efficiently from orbit of Venus.

Microbes thrive on Earth in the absence of Oxygen or by Industrial means.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/phosphine

No, the question before that asking if they knew what produces the gas on Earth. They couldn't definitively answer, but one (Sarah?) said that she was sure (without proof) the gas is produced biologically on Earth.

iLikeWaffles

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the question before that asking if they knew what produces the gas on Earth. They couldn't definitively answer, but one (Sarah?) said that she was sure (without proof) the gas is produced biologically on Earth.

There was a couple of questions they didn't provide speculation about. Unknown...

Despite a large body of robust circumstantial evidence for the production of
phosphine by life, the exact mechanisms for biologically-associated
production of PH3 are still debated, and the metabolic pathway leading to PH3
production in anaerobic bacteria is unknown. However, we note that the
absence of a known enzymatic mechanism is not evidence for the absence of
biological production. The synthetic pathways for most of life’s natural
products are not known, and yet their origin is widely accepted to be biological
{page break}
because of the implausibility of their abiotic synthesis, their obligate
association with life, and their chemical similarity to other biological products.
For example, a recently published, manually curated, database of natural
molecules produced by life on Earth contains ~220,000 unique molecules of
biological origin, produced by thousands of species (Petkowski et al. 2019a)
while the number of known, experimentally elucidated, metabolic pathways
from organisms belonging to all three domains of life is only ~2,720 (Caspi et
al. 2017). Further examples of the complexities in discovering metabolic
pathways for molecules associated with biological activity are provided in
Appendix E.

page 5 - 6

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1910/1910.05224.pdf#:~:text=On%20Earth%2C%20phosphine%20is%20associated,trace%20amounts%2C%20in%20the%20atmosphere.

iLikeWaffles

Deleted User wrote: »

When I clicked on it, there was nothing showing. Thanks.

The link I provided in the previous post work?

iLikeWaffles

Sky at Night was interesting, they were able to explain it better in a relaxed format. Repeated on Thursday at 7pm.

The demonstrations of sulphuric acid done on the program with the sugar, peas and then succulent plant show promising hypothesis. Although a few drops of acid on a very hardy plant is hardly a controlled experiment. More so done to say if there is microbial life there it might have evolved to survive in the acidity of Venus's atmosphere.

igCorcaigh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1u-jlf_Olo

iguana

iguana wrote: »

?

Overall.


This is a massive discovery. It's either new chemistry (exciting to only scientific minded people, in the main) or actual alien life.


If it's, amazingly, the second then it it will have ramifications for societies and religions around the world

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If it's, amazingly, the second then it it will have ramifications for societies and religions around the world

This is more a philosophical discussion, but I think it'd need to be intelligent life, especially if they still had their own creation myth religion.

iLikeWaffles

The philosophical ramifications might not be as challenged as you would think. Could just be confirmation bias for most of them!

igCorcaigh

Live chat coming up at 22:30h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfN4oGeAs2k

iLikeWaffles

ALMA detects Glycine found in amino acids on Venus, yet to be peer reviewed... https://www.sciencealert.com/astronomers-report-they-ve-detected-an-amino-acid-found-in-dna-in-venus-atmosphere