PT expectations

Ella281

Hi all. Just had a question about PTs.
What would you expect from a PT in the initial stages in order to establish a plan or help you achieve your goal?
I have started with one recently and we have gone straight into the exercises but no measurements taken/plan/goals set out.
Is this right?
Thanks.

Jayesdiem

Ella281 wrote: »

Hi all. Just had a question about PTs.
What would you expect from a PT in the initial stages in order to establish a plan or help you achieve your goal?
I have started with one recently and we have gone straight into the exercises but no measurements taken/plan/goals set out.
Is this right?
Thanks.

No because he/she cannot measure your progress against baseline. Change trainer.

Cill94

I don't see an issue with them not taking measurements like skinfolds (personally find that a bit invasive), however if fat loss is a goal of yours, then they should at least encourage you to track your weight.

There should also be a regular objective measure for your progress in the training itself. For example, I keep a log of each client's sessions, and can show them how much stronger they've gotten since day 1.

I wrote an article on the topic a while back that might give you an idea of what to expect from a good coach https://www.cillianoconnor.net/single-post/2019/10/16/Finding-the-Right-Coach-for-YOU

ax530

Trainer usually does measurements weights, leg, arm ... CMS.
I have been offered documents with meal plan ideas & tips.
Usually trainer will mention weight did previously will increase it ect I don't follow take note of these I'm mostly just happy to get the exercise done

Alf Veedersane

I don't think measurements are entirely necessary. If they weren't confident in their use of calipers, they're better off not doing it anyway since the number wouldn't be in any way accurate.

But there should have been a discussion about what you wanted from the PT. Lose weight, lose fat, get stronger, get bigger, etc. They can't come up with a plan if they don't know what your goals are.

Sheep Shagger

What's the going rate for a PT these days if you are doing it 'virtually' ie not physically in a gym.

Black Sheep

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

What's the going rate for a PT these days if you are doing it 'virtually' ie not physically in a gym.

Depends.

You could pay 150 euro or more per month for 1 to 1 online coaching, if that's what you're talking about.

There are online group coaching options out there which are based on templates or set programming that clock in much cheaper, could be 25 euro a month etc.

The world is your oyster if you're willing to be coached online, as you can opt to train with anyone anywhere. Occasionally there will be sales offered (20% off the first 3 months and so on) from US companies pushing online coaching.

I would suggest this whole route will suit someone who knows how to train but needs help with their programming.

Sheep Shagger

Thanks, yeah the one I'm looking at is €150pm

Dublin based, 1-1 virtually with individual plans etc and a library of you tube tutorials.

Might give it a shot for 3 months (minimum term) and see...

Mellor

Ella281 wrote: »

Hi all. Just had a question about PTs.
What would you expect from a PT in the initial stages in order to establish a plan or help you achieve your goal?
I have started with one recently and we have gone straight into the exercises but no measurements taken/plan/goals set out.
Is this right?
Thanks.

The plan, goals, expectation should have been the main conversation initially.
How do they know if you want to lose weight, or whether you don;t care about weight but want to get stronger.

If would have been a good idea for them to take measurements. But on the other hand, it's very easy to do yourself, as remember you are paying for that time too.
Some PT push monthly assesments, that are simply convoluted ways to bill an extra 30mins.

silverharp

the main reason to use a trainer is to train safely in a gym and to learn how to get more out of the equipment thereand to push you a little more than you might yourself. Have your expectations managed , going to a gym doesnt mean you will lose weight ,as such whether they take measurements or isnt of huge importance. You have a scales and measuring tape at home, know your weight and your waist and you have 80/20'd the issue, getting measured at a gym is more pampering the client and creating a bit of dependence on the trainer, which isnt necessarily bad just not essential.
If you were looking for goals that the gym or a trainer can help with then think about what type of fitness would improve your lot, be it health, longevity , functional fitness for other activities.
Personally I think it would be more interesting to do some kind of base line fitness test that would measure your cardio fitness and strength now, then track that over the next year. So if you went from "sedentary" to above average in 6 months to a year, thats all you need to confirm what you knew anyway as you would have noticed the difference along the way.

Alf Veedersane

silverharp wrote: »

the main reason to use a trainer is to train safely in a gym and to learn how to get more out of the equipment thereand to push you a little more than you might yourself. Have your expectations managed , going to a gym doesnt mean you will lose weight ,as such whether they take measurements or isnt of huge importance. You have a scales and measuring tape at home, know your weight and your waist and you have 80/20'd the issue, getting measured at a gym is more pampering the client and creating a bit of dependence on the trainer, which isnt necessarily bad just not essential.
If you were looking for goals that the gym or a trainer can help with then think about what type of fitness would improve your lot, be it health, longevity , functional fitness for other activities.
Personally I think it would be more interesting to do some kind of base line fitness test that would measure your cardio fitness and strength now, then track that over the next year. So if you went from "sedentary" to above average in 6 months to a year, thats all you need to confirm what you knew anyway as you would have noticed the difference along the way.

I disagree. A good PT does a lot more than showing a client how to use the equipment properly with good technique.

brownej

The initial session with the PT should have included discussions of goals and objectives. How can they do a programme for you if they dont know what you want.
They should have also had a discussion with you on injuries that you may have and should have done a movement assessment of some description to see where to even start with you.

Wanderer19

brownej wrote: »

The initial session with the PT should have included discussions of goals and objectives. How can they do a programme for you if they dont know what you want.
They should have also had a discussion with you on injuries that you may have and should have done a movement assessment of some description to see where to even start with you.

This ∆∆∆
Plus I'd do photos and measurements (with a tape measure).;Scales too, but I'd rely more on the measurements and how the client is feeling/doing regarding progress.

Ella281

Yeah. I never had a PT before so it’s all new to me.
When I saw PT adevertised, I thought goals, exercises, measurements and nutrition plan.
Whereas I have only been doing strength exercises. I’m just worried about my goals and meeting them. We only briefly discussed my goals and hopes etc
Not sure if this is the norm. I would of expected more than what he’s giving tbh.

Sheep Shagger

Has anyone used a 'virtual PT' based in ireland but its all done via zoom/whatsapp etc...what's the going rate €150 per month?

Alf Veedersane

Ella281 wrote: »

Yeah. I never had a PT before so it’s all new to me.
When I saw PT adevertised, I thought goals, exercises, measurements and nutrition plan.
Whereas I have only been doing strength exercises. I’m just worried about my goals and meeting them. We only briefly discussed my goals and hopes etc
Not sure if this is the norm. I would of expected more than what he’s giving tbh.

You have three choices at this point: (1) carry on as is, (2) have the chat with him about what you want from it and ask that the training be aimed at that and (3) move on.

Should be no issue with 2, to be honest. A good PT want to help you get where you want. They draw the map and you follow it.

But if you're not happy with the outcome of the chat then look elsewhere

Cill94

Ella281 wrote: »

Yeah. I never had a PT before so it’s all new to me.
When I saw PT adevertised, I thought goals, exercises, measurements and nutrition plan.
Whereas I have only been doing strength exercises. I’m just worried about my goals and meeting them. We only briefly discussed my goals and hopes etc
Not sure if this is the norm. I would of expected more than what he’s giving tbh.

Just a note here. It’s a really common misconception that PTs are qualified to give nutrition plans. General nutrition advice yes, but not specific meal plans. Only registered dieticians should be doing that. I would be more wary of PTs offering this service than the ones who don’t.

Regardless, you should definitely raise your concerns with this person you’re paying.

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

Just a note here. It’s a really common misconception that PTs are qualified to give nutrition plans. General nutrition advice yes, but not specific meal plans. Only registered dieticians should be doing that. I would be more wary of PTs offering this service than the ones who don’t.

Regardless, you should definitely raise your concerns with this person you’re paying.

A specific meal plan for a specific treatment, yes only dietitians are qualified to do that.
But diet for weight loss for 95% of people not a specific treatment and general advice is fine, and general advice can include a meal plan.

ILoveYourVibes

Mellor wrote: »

A specific meal plan for a specific treatment, yes only dietitians are qualified to do that.
But diet for weight loss for 95% of people not a specific treatment and general advice is fine, and general advice can include a meal plan.

I agree with you 100%.

However some pts ..have never done a course in a nutrition and some have.

Its a common misconception that every qualified PT has done nutrition as part of their qualification. That isnt true.

Nor do some know a lot from just experience etc. They may not feel they know any more than a lay person.

Some pt courses have nutrition as apart of the course some do not. Some fitness people are interested in nutrition and some are not.

Plenty of pts have zero interest in nutrition and don't want to provide it as a service. Its just not what they want to do. They might not even feel they know enough.

I agree a lot with silver harp ...

Some pts might consider the whole goal setting thing ...spoon feeding clients ...and not worth the time it takes. Some are totally into it.

OP i would find a PT with the approach YOU like.


You want someone to motivate you and organize this for you. Not every PT works like that.

What a PT is supposed to be is the RIGHT PT for you.

Not everyone likes the goal setting measurement stuff etc. But you do ..so find a pt that is right for you.

Alf Veedersane

Goal setting isn't for the PT to do. Its for the client to know. But what the PT does with the client should reflect what the client wants to gain from their time with the PT.

Otherwise, what's the basis for the workout/exercise that they give the client?

Cill94

Mellor wrote: »

A specific meal plan for a specific treatment, yes only dietitians are qualified to do that.
But diet for weight loss for 95% of people not a specific treatment and general advice is fine, and general advice can include a meal plan.

As far as I’m aware, dieticians are the only nutrition professional that are protected by law. (Or so the INDI claims).

Coming at it strictly from a legal standpoint, my understanding would be that PTs leave themselves vulnerable to legal action if they were ever to dispense a meal plan that had a serious negative effect on a client’s health.

ILoveYourVibes

Cill94 wrote: »

As far as I’m aware, dieticians are the only nutrition professional that are protected by law. (Or so the INDI claims).

Coming at it strictly from a legal standpoint, my understanding would be that PTs leave themselves vulnerable to legal action if they were ever to dispense a meal plan that had a serious negative effect on a client’s health.

This is true.

Its not that you WOULD harm someone. But people are sue happy these days.

In fact some solicitors make a living suing gyms and pts ....its a huge issue partic in Ireland.

Even a waiver doesn't really protect you.

look at these search results.
https://www.google.com/search?q=people+suing+gyms&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Its too easy to make a claim in Ireland.

I mean their health could be going south anyway ...nothing to do with you..but ...if you can sue ..why wouldn't they?

There are a lot of people who want to take advantage.

You cant say anything these days. Its changed the business.

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

As far as I’m aware, dieticians are the only nutrition professional that are protected by law. (Or so the INDI claims).

The protection covers the job title not the advice or service.

Same way you have to be qualified to use the title architect. But you don’t have to be a architect to give somebody advice relating to design - but you can mislead someone either.

Coming at it strictly from a legal standpoint, my understanding would be that PTs leave themselves vulnerable to legal action if they were ever to dispense a meal plan that had a serious negative effect on a client’s health.

Yes they could. But so would a dietician.

Which is why they have to be clear that it’s general advice not medical or specific advice.
From a legal standpoint. Telling somebody to eat whatever amount of PFC, would be the same as giving them an example meal plan that achieves that ratio of PFC.

Cill94

Mellor wrote: »

The protection covers the job title not the advice or service.

Same way you have to be qualified to use the title architect. But you don’t have to be a architect to give somebody advice relating to design - but you can mislead someone either.


Yes they could. But so would a dietician.

Which is why they have to be clear that it’s general advice not medical or specific advice.
From a legal standpoint. Telling somebody to eat whatever amount of PFC, would be the same as giving them an example meal plan that achieves that ratio of PFC.

Surely if you're in a court, you're going to have a far better chance of winning a case if you can prove you were sufficiently qualified to provide a service?

Similar to how I'd assume an architect with a degree would have better protection under law if someone's house falls down, than if someone unqualified designed the house for them?

Maybe I'm assuming too much of the legal system

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

Surely if you're in a court, you're going to have a far better chance of winning a case if you can prove you were sufficiently qualified to provide a service?

I don't see how. Despite the qualification, the result was a negative effect on a client’s health. They are liable for that.

Similar to how I'd assume an architect with a degree would have better protection under law if someone's house falls down, than if someone unqualified designed the house for them?

Maybe I'm assuming too much of the legal system

Protected how? If the advice was genuinely bad advice, and caused the house to fall down, then they are liable. A qualification doesn't remove responsibility, it anything it increases it.

You seem to be thinking that being qualified to give advice provides some sort of legal protection. It doesn't, but it enables you to get insurance.

ILoveYourVibes

Mellor wrote: »

I don't see how. Despite the qualification, the result was a negative effect on a client’s health. They are liable for that.



.

This is true.

However giving advice when you are not actually sufficiently qualified leaves you even more open to being sued.

Remember ..you don't have to give bad advice. People LIE mellor.

And if you are not qualified it might be more reasonable to believe you gave misguided or bad advice.

Infact ...insurance wise its questionable to ask if you insurance as a PT would actually cover it.

In a lot of cases I am certain it would not.

And if you are not covered ..dont do it.

Mellor

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is true.
However giving advice when you are not actually sufficiently qualified leaves you even more open to being sued.
Remember ..you don't have to give bad advice. People LIE mellor.

Somebody lying and misrepresenting themselves as a dietitian or whatever is a entirely different issue, and not relevant to the above tbh.

And if you are not qualified it might be more reasonable to believe you gave misguided or bad advice.
Infact ...insurance wise its questionable to ask if you insurance as a PT would actually cover it.
In a lot of cases I am certain it would not.
And if you are not covered ..dont do it.

Again, that's why we are talking about general dietary guidelines, verses specific or medical advice. There is no legal requirement to be a dietitian for the former afaik. Same way that people aren't sued for general on facebook, or on here.

Simple example, you mentioned PTs who included nutrition as part of there course. I believe that covers your course too. Would you give general diet advice to a client?

ILoveYourVibes

Mellor wrote: »

Would you give general diet advice to a client?

Not if i can avoid it.

My insurance doesn't cover it. This was pointed out to me specifically by the insurer.

If pressed reluctantly yes. With the caveat 'Im not a professional'.

Again, that's why we are talking about general dietary guidelines, verses specific or medical advice. There is no legal requirement to be a dietitian for the former afaik. Same way that people aren't sued for general on facebook, or on here.

Do members of facebook have to take out professional indemnity insurance as i did?

And i mean you have to be pretty dim to take advice from the general public on facebook. Good or bad.

Mellor

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Not if i can avoid it.
My insurance doesn't cover it. This was pointed out to me specifically by the insurer.

Correct. It shouldn’t cover you.
So only give advice that doesn’t require insurance or Crete liability

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Do members of facebook have to take out professional indemnity insurance as i did?

No. But your insurance doesn’t cover you for that, So doesn’t make a difference.

And i mean you have to be pretty dim to take advice from the general public on facebook. Good or bad.

There’s plenty of dim people out there.

There’s also plenty of people who built successful careers that started over social media.

ILoveYourVibes

Mellor wrote: »

So only give advice that doesn’t require insurance or Crete liability
.

I didn't ask for your advice.

I am a member of REPS

The Register of Exercise Professionals (REPs) states “Personal trainers should not provide prescriptive nutritional advice or develop bespoke individualised nutrition plans for clients.”

Mellor

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I didn't ask for your advice.

I am a member of REPS

Or sure you are talking about tbh.

That quote from reps backs up what I said btw. You can’t give Prescriptive nutritional advice. A dietitian should.
General advice is not the same as prescriptive advice. PTs should keep that in mind.

ILoveYourVibes

Mellor wrote: »

Or sure you are talking about tbh.

That quote from reps backs up what I said btw. You can’t give Prescriptive nutritional advice. A dietitian should.
General advice is not the same as prescriptive advice. PTs should keep that in mind.

we are not allowed to..

develop bespoke individualised nutrition plans for clients.”

also....

It doesn't back up what you say at all. Quite the opposite. We are not allowed to develop nutrition plans for clients it says so quite clearly.

And there are some clients who want trainers to be everything to them. Counselor, motivational speaker, nutritionist, trainer etc. Its not our job. It takes enough time to put together work out plans let alone nutrition plans. They can get someone else to do it.

Mellor

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

also....

It doesn't back up what you say at all. Quite the opposite. We are not allowed to develop nutrition plans for clients it says so quite clearly.

It’s says not to gives prescriptive advice or bespoke individual plans. Which is what I said above, they are not to give specific advice.

Prescriptive/specific advice and general advice are different things. If somebody doesn’t know the difference, they best avoid all to be safe.

ILoveYourVibes

Mellor wrote: »

It’s says not to gives prescriptive advice or bespoke individual plans. Which is what I said above, they are not to give specific advice.

Prescriptive/specific advice and general advice are different things. If somebody doesn’t know the difference, they best avoid all to be safe.

You are not allowed give any diet plan to someone. That is what it means.

General advice is this ...don't eat junk...don't eat too much..don't eat too little ..drink water..five portions of fruit and veg..diet should be 60% carbs 30 % fat and 10% protein. Here is the Food pyramid. There ...done.

Its the kind of advice most pts dont actually believe in. Probably most people here don't believe in the food pyramid. But well if you stray from it. You have given someone bespoke advice.

Anytime you say ..up your protein ..that is prescriptive and bespoke and goes against general health advice given by the govt.

You are also specifically not allowed to advise calorie restriction. You have to advise every woman to eat 2000 calories a day. You can't advise the omission or restriction of certain food groups etc.

You can't write out a plan.

The client just has to remember your advice and figure out how to implement it. If you can implement such vague advice.

that kind of advice ..isn't going to work for most people.

There is a huge move away from PT's giving nutritional advice because over the past few decades there has been atkins ..paleo etc And dieticians and Drs have been complaining. Lawsuits have been taken.


As a PT nutritional advice isn't a service im interested in providing.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

General advice is this ...don't eat junk...don't eat too much..don't eat too little ..drink water..five portions of fruit and veg..diet should be 60% carbs 30 % fat and 10% protein. Here is the Food pyramid. There ...done.

General advice can be a lot better than that

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

General advice can be a lot better than that

Maybe. It can definitely include more waffle.

But you can't advise them to use calorie restriction.Women have the recommended 2000 calories etc. You can't stray from the food pyramid and you can't stray from the recommended ratio of carbs protein etc.


Most people would prob not agree with the above advice here. But that is your limitations.

You are not allowed recommend fad or celeb diets. Its very specific. The guidelines are longer than that one sentence i gave you. I have them printed out somewhere.

The advice dieticians give to the general population ..is the advice you have to adhere to.

If somebody doesn’t know the difference, they best avoid all to be safe.

You have a tendency to think people around you are not as smart as you. Its not accurate.

People know good lawyers can 'muddy ' the difference.


Im just after hearing of a gym that had to settle because a guy knocked his own teeth out when he balanced a bar bell against the wall and it feel smacking him the in face.

Its VERY easy to bring a lawsuit in Ireland. No one wants the hassle. Even if they have done everything right.

Anyway giving nutritional advice ..it simply doesn't interest a lot of PTs. They don't want to offer the service. Its not something I do. People can find a PT that is prepared to.

Alf Veedersane

There's no maybe.

You can give general advice that's a lot better.

You don't have to reference fad diets or advise someone to put a bar on an unsafe perch. Just give good general advice, without crossing line into being prescriptive.

Not wanting to is separate and thats fine.

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's no maybe.

You can give general advice that's a lot better.

You don't have to reference fad diets or advise someone to put a bar on an unsafe perch. Just give good general advice, without crossing line into being prescriptive.

Not wanting to is separate and thats fine.

Fair enough. Obv im just writing a post on a forum in my free time.;)

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Fair enough. Obv im just writing a post on a forum in my free time.;)

Its something I had to do for a client in my own field some years ago. Prescriptive advice would potentially have led to legal issues. But you can give plenty of helpful detail to someone who is asking for help while still giving advice that would be classed as 'general'.

Mellor

The advice dieticians give to the general population ..is the advice you have to adhere to.

5 tp different dietitions and they could give different advice to the general population. It's all counts as general.

Go into any bookshop and there are dozens of health/fitness based cookbooks. Some are by dietitians, some aren't. Many former celebrity PT types have books. They don;t get sued as the advice is general.

If you don't want to offer the service, that's fine.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Its something I had to do for a client in my own field some years ago. Prescriptive advice would potentially have led to legal issues. But you can give plenty of helpful detail to someone who is asking for help while still giving advice that would be classed as 'general'.

Exactly.
It's really common in any number of fields.

calfmuscle

Mellor wrote: »

5 tp different dietitions and they could give different advice to the general population. It's all counts as general.

Go into any bookshop and there are dozens of health/fitness based cookbooks. Some are by dietitians, some aren't. Many former celebrity PT types have books. They don;t get sued as the advice is general.

If you don't want to offer the service, that's fine.


Exactly.
It's really common in any number of fields.

I think what she is saying is that if you advertise yourself as a registered pt and then give advice that is outside your scope of professional practice you are exposed to legal repercussions.

Very sensible advice and we would all be wise to adhere to it.

Ella281

Hi all. So, I’m not happy with the PT.
Absolutely no follow up or communication to organise or confirm sessions despite having contact details.
No direction with a plan and no talk about same.

Ive paid in full already. Disaster!!!

calfmuscle

Ella281 wrote: »

Hi all. So, I’m not happy with the PT.
Absolutely no follow up or communication to organise or confirm sessions despite having contact details.
No direction with a plan and no talk about same.

Ive paid in full already. Disaster!!!

Just send a nice message asking to arrange times. See what happens...

ILoveYourVibes

Ella281 wrote: »

Hi all. So, I’m not happy with the PT.
Absolutely no follow up or communication to organise or confirm sessions despite having contact details.
No direction with a plan and no talk about same.

Ive paid in full already. Disaster!!!

This spells unprofessional.