Swirl flap damage

Chiparus

My 5 year old BMW x5 stopped working , eventually got it going and it was brought straight to BMW dealer.

Apparently there has been major damage to the engine and I am looking at about €15,000 for parts and labour:eek: This is due to swirl flaps breaking off and being ingested into the engine.

Does anyone have any ideas? Is it even worth repairing ?

ba_barabus

Chiparus wrote: »

My 5 year old BMW x5 stopped working , eventually got it going and it was brought straight to BMW dealer.

Apparently there has been major damage to the engine and I am looking at about €15,000 for parts and labour:eek: This is due to swirl flaps breaking off and being ingested into the engine.

Does anyone have any ideas? Is it even worth repairing ?

Find a very good BMW specialist and that price will probably drop considerably. That's the first thing I'd do.

9935452

The car is worth very little without a good engine.
A good independent would save you thousands over a main dealer

Tails142

You should be able to do a full engine swap for at most 2.5k labour and pick up an engine for 2k or lower, I'm pretty sure that's what I paid after timing chain failure on a 7 series, that's at an independent specialist.

Can't believe they're still putting those swirl flaps in

Sexual Chocolate

Tails142 wrote: »

You should be able to do a full engine swap for at most 2.5k labour and pick up an engine for 2k or lower, I'm pretty sure that's what I paid after timing chain failure on a 7 series, that's at an independent specialist.

Can't believe they're still putting those swirl flaps in

I read that BMW stopped using swirl flaps altogether a few years back, though there is a lot of misinformation out there.

With the N series engine its actually the rod that breaks, different way to how the older ones used to break I believe but the same ****ty outcome in the end.


OP are BMW offering you any goodwill ?

Chiparus

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

I read that BMW stopped using swirl flaps altogether a few years back, though there is a lot of misinformation out there.

With the N series engine its actually the rod that breaks, different way to how the older ones used to break I believe but the same ****ty outcome in the end.


OP are BMW offering you any goodwill ?

Yes , some but really i'm in the hole for at least 10k , I loved BMW for the service and reliability , this has really shocked me.

kippy

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes , some but really i'm in the hole for at least 10k , I loved BMW for the service and reliability , this has really shocked me.

Marketing works.

Sexual Chocolate

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes , some but really i'm in the hole for at least 10k , I loved BMW for the service and reliability , this has really shocked me.

If your interested in the names of a few BMW independent garages just ask. It will still cost a few grand but not 15k.

mickdw

Dont give them 15k.
Get a used engine fitted. Be good as new.

ShadowHearth

Was it serviced in main dealer? Did you bought it from them? You could push for some Good will of them, to cover some part.

5 years old and with such major feck up, I would presume BMW would do at least something for you.

Zascar

Swirl flaps are a known issue in some bmw engines. I've never owned one but was going to and the one thing to check is if the swirl flaps have been done and if not, get them done. Very unfortunate they went wrong for you. AS mentioned already find a good bmw independent and get a quote, or if not a 2nd hand engine. What year is the car and how much is it worth?

Chiparus

Zascar wrote: »

Swirl flaps are a known issue in some bmw engines. I've never owned one but was going to and the one thing to check is if the swirl flaps have been done and if not, get them done. Very unfortunate they went wrong for you. AS mentioned already find a good bmw independent and get a quote, or if not a 2nd hand engine. What year is the car and how much is it worth?

151, I would guess 35k,

vectra

whereabouts in the country are you?
Maybe a few posters could suggest an indi.

Chiparus

Cheers Im in the south east.

vectra

I guess Fermoy is too far?

road_high

Chiparus wrote: »

Cheers Im in the south east.

There’s a guy in Carlow- I know nothing about his work but he’s been there a long time- Bilbao Motor Works.
https://www.qsn.ie/qsn-garages/bilboa-motor-works/

road_high

Chiparus wrote: »

My 5 year old BMW x5 stopped working , eventually got it going and it was brought straight to BMW dealer.

Apparently there has been major damage to the engine and I am looking at about €15,000 for parts and labour:eek: This is due to swirl flaps breaking off and being ingested into the engine.

Does anyone have any ideas? Is it even worth repairing ?

This is really dreadful for a relatively new car and sounds like it’s been well serviced and minded too. €15 k is insane money. The arrogance of even looking for that kind of money with a straight face.
Have you been in touch with bmw Ireland?

road_high

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes , some but really i'm in the hole for at least 10k , I loved BMW for the service and reliability , this has really shocked me.

Bmw reliability unfortunately has been garbage for a long time now. And I say that as an owner of one. Mines a company lease but I’d have serious thoughts of buying one privately. Big bills seem to be a very common theme

Chiparus

road_high wrote: »

This is really dreadful for a relatively new car and sounds like it’s been well serviced and minded too. €15 k is insane money. The arrogance of even looking for that kind of money with a straight face.
Have you been in touch with bmw Ireland?

To be fair about 15 k was the total, they have since agreed 50% off parts so I was told 11.5 k. I have a really good relationship with the BMW garage but I cannot afford that much-

tabby aspreme

What mileage was on the x5

Immortal Starlight

Horrible thing to happen and crazy money they are looking for. What engine was in the X5.

hurikane

Chiparus wrote: »

To be fair about 15 k was the total, they have since agreed 50% off parts so I was told 11.5 k. I have a really good relationship with the BMW garage but I cannot afford that much-

Sounds like super relationship, if things don’t work out, I’m here, I’m high maintenance and if things go wrong you’ll have to spend a fortune on me too.

I can just imagine the conversation they had, tell them it’ll be 15k initially, then tell we’ll give a discount on parts and labour, keep the price over 10k though, when they com back tell them 11.5k and if they look for more, go down to 11k.

road_high

Chiparus wrote: »

To be fair about 15 k was the total, they have since agreed 50% off parts so I was told 11.5 k. I have a really good relationship with the BMW garage but I cannot afford that much-

Still crazy money as you no doubt know. Not many of us have 11.5k just hanging around to blow on car repairs. I think you’ll have to shop around, the Labour they change would be massive

road_high

hurikane wrote: »

Sounds like super relationship, if things don’t work out, I’m here, I’m high maintenance and if things go wrong you’ll have to spend a fortune on me too.

I can just imagine the conversation they had, tell them it’ll be 15k initially, then tell we’ll give a discount on parts and labour, keep the price over 10k though, when they com back tell them 11.5k and if they look for more, go down to 11k.

I thought the same but then I’m not well up enough on the costs to know exactly

ShadowHearth

Chiparus wrote: »

To be fair about 15 k was the total, they have since agreed 50% off parts so I was told 11.5 k. I have a really good relationship with the BMW garage but I cannot afford that much-

That is a start, I bet you try to push them more and they will drop price more. They could even drop parts cost, because as mentioned already, flaps issue is a major oversight by bmw. Try BMW Ireland too.

Chiparus

My car was being recalled for EGR replacement on the day of the failure , It maybe the fault in the EGR cauased the Swirl flap failure?
It was reported on honest John a similar incident -although they got the engine replaced for free.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/owning-1/2019-03/bmw-egr-recall-158000-owners-still-waiting-for-repairs/

I own a 14 plate f31 325d , went in for the egr recall on Friday , they replaced the egr and the cooler did a pressure test and said the manifold has failed so they are ordering one , manifold took off this morning 6/7/20 , got a phone call at 11 saying they have ordered an engine for my car as the swirl flaps had gone into the engine and caused a lot of damage my car ran fine before it went in no noises or anything , has anyone else had this happened to them ? I think the tech has done something wrong and the dealer is fronting the costs , I am very happy that it is getting a new engine fitted for free but should I push for them to explain fully what has happened as it seems strange that it flew apart whilst in the dealers

Chiparus

tabby aspreme wrote: »

What mileage was on the x5

180K km

Chiparus

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

Horrible thing to happen and crazy money they are looking for. What engine was in the X5.

2 lit

Immortal Starlight

Chiparus wrote: »

2 lit

Do you have any extended warranty? I’ve an X5 40d a year younger than yours and I did take one. Don’t know what the outcome would be with the warranty though. It’s ridiculous swirl flaps are still an issue nowadays.

mickdw

A 2.0d engine should be got 2nd hand for reasonable money even if it means going to uk for it.
Get it fitted by good bmw independent.

If this was my car, id be hammering bmw for a completely free repair or else wouldnt darken their door again. They can only say no. If so, go the route as outlined above.
The last thing id be doing is paying crazy lanour rates to the dealer to fix an issue that should be covered.

galwaytt

mickdw wrote: »

If this was my car, id be hammering bmw for a completely free repair or else wouldnt darken their door again.

Great idea in principle, but BMW have absolutely no interest in you darkening their door again.

At this stage OP is just a lifetime of pain to them, and OP would need to buy the next 2 or 3 cars from them just to stay ahead. Easier for them all round if OP walks away.

They'll just hook another new customer instead: easier, less hassle.

Such is the value on 'brand loyalty' these days: there is none. Kinda like insurance companies really.

LillySV

Thought my neighbour was in bad luck when had to pay 8k for Land Rover when engine went...sounds like a bargain now!!! And I was strongly thinking of getting an X5 at one stage!! That’s shocking.... does this problem arise in the 3 litres also?

Chiparus

galwaytt wrote: »

Great idea in principle, but BMW have absolutely no interest in you darkening their door again.

At this stage OP is just a lifetime of pain to them, and OP would need to buy the next 2 or 3 cars from them just to stay ahead. Easier for them all round if OP walks away.

They'll just hook another new customer instead: easier, less hassle.

Such is the value on 'brand loyalty' these days: there is none. Kinda like insurance companies really.

Yes I agree, I have bought 5 cars off them in the last 12 years and this is the first time I have had this happen, and the service department is very good and I would like to stay with them.

mickdw

galwaytt wrote: »

Great idea in principle, but BMW have absolutely no interest in you darkening their door again.

At this stage OP is just a lifetime of pain to them, and OP would need to buy the next 2 or 3 cars from them just to stay ahead. Easier for them all round if OP walks away.

They'll just hook another new customer instead: easier, less hassle.

Such is the value on 'brand loyalty' these days: there is none. Kinda like insurance companies really.

Ya well im not saying it would work but you have to give them some hassle and follow through on not buying from them again if they dont play ball.
I agree BMW dont seem to care about customer loyalty - given the way they go about their pcp deals but if there are throwing away repeat customers due to poor pcp pricing and also throwing away customers due to poor levels of goodwill on known faults, they are in trouble. The new to the brand young buyers for the most part would likely disappear in a sales downturn - a dealer turning away someone who has bought a long line of cars from them all over goodwill from the manufacturer is stupidity. By all accounts the dealer has a large hand in whether you get goodwill or not so I think its very much worth while putting your case strongly.

galwaytt

mickdw wrote: »

Ya well im not saying it would work but you have to give them some hassle and follow through on not buying from them again if they dont play ball.
I agree BMW dont seem to care about customer loyalty - given the way they go about their pcp deals but if there are throwing away repeat customers due to poor pcp pricing and also throwing away customers due to poor levels of goodwill on known faults, they are in trouble. The new to the brand young buyers for the most part would likely disappear in a sales downturn - a dealer turning away someone who has bought a long line of cars from them all over goodwill from the manufacturer is stupidity. By all accounts the dealer has a large hand in whether you get goodwill or not so I think its very much worth while putting your case strongly.

Oh I'd certainly have a go, and not give up lightly on it, but at the end of the day it's a case of who blinks first. An OP promise 'to never buy from them again' will actually not be a loss to them in this instance, so I don't think that's an option I'd be waving at them at the start of the conversation because ultimately OP would be the loser.

Need to bargain 'smarter' really.

MetzgerMeister

Back in March the engine in my F30 330d spun a bearing on the motorway as myself and a friend (whom had agreed to buy the car from me) were on our way to Naas as I was viewing an M4 in Ladytown industrial estate. I had to leave the car with Conlans (who were only by the grace of God located a few hundred meters away from my destination) for a few days while the engine was taken out, stripped etc to find the cause. Thankfully the car was still driving albeit with a loud knocking from inside!

Conlans then submitted a goodwill claim with BMW for a new engine. BMW came back with an offer of 80% of the engine cost. A bit of back and forth and they bumped it up to 100% of the engine cost, leaving me to pay 3k labour which I was happy with as I got a 2 year warranty on the new engine. The car had a full BMW service history and wasn't ever serviced outside the BMW network which helped plus the condition the rest of the car is in (for a 2013).

I have to say, Conlans were great to deal with and they really did fight my corner as far as I can tell despite the fact that I had no previous dealings with them. The day I arrived on their forecourt with a goosed engine was my first time dealing with them.

Does your X5 have full BMW service history? If not, do you have receipts for OEM BMW parts used in servicing? I was told specifically that as long as OEM parts are used (oil filter, air filter etc.) for servicing outside the BMW network and I have the receipts to prove so, the warranty on the engine remains intact.

Chiparus

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Back in March the engine in my F30 330d spun a bearing on the motorway as myself and a friend (whom had agreed to buy the car from me) were on our way to Naas as I was viewing an M4 in Ladytown industrial estate. I had to leave the car with Conlans (who were only by the grace of God located a few hundred meters away from my destination) for a few days while the engine was taken out, stripped etc to find the cause. Thankfully the car was still driving albeit with a loud knocking from inside!

Conlans then submitted a goodwill claim with BMW for a new engine. BMW came back with an offer of 80% of the engine cost. A bit of back and forth and they bumped it up to 100% of the engine cost, leaving me to pay 3k labour which I was happy with as I got a 2 year warranty on the new engine. The car had a full BMW service history and wasn't ever serviced outside the BMW network which helped plus the condition the rest of the car is in (for a 2013).

I have to say, Conlans were great to deal with and they really did fight my corner as far as I can tell despite the fact that I had no previous dealings with them. The day I arrived on their forecourt with a goosed engine was my first time dealing with them.

Does your X5 have full BMW service history? If not, do you have receipts for OEM BMW parts used in servicing? I was told specifically that as long as OEM parts are used (oil filter, air filter etc.) for servicing outside the BMW network and I have the receipts to prove so, the warranty on the engine remains intact.

Yes, BMW only.

MetzgerMeister

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes, BMW only.

That will stand to you big time.

With which dealership are you dealing?

Chiparus

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

That will stand to you big time.

With which dealership are you dealing?

I would rather not say, but they have been very good to me,

CoBo55

Chiparus wrote: »

I would rather not say, but they have been very good to me,

If it's Donohoes aka Bolands in Enniscorthy you're doomed...

SpannerMonkey

Chiparus wrote: »

Yes , some but really i'm in the hole for at least 10k , I loved BMW for the service and reliability , this has really shocked me.

This is a very common problem im afraid, not as much in the newer BMWs but it still happens. i personally know 3 people this has happened to average cost to repair between 5000-7500. BMWs have numerous common problems :rolleyes: and BMW doesn't care, because once your warranty is out after a measly 2 years you are no longer their problem.

First piece of advice NEVER NEVER go to a BMW main dealer for anything other than a service. their prices are scandalous and their knowledge is questionable, These guys tend to spend most of their time servicing cars not fixing them.

Second piece of advice go to a BMW specialist there are many all around the country. They will know how to sort these problems far better than BMW techs and they will be massively cheaper. Notice i said cheaper, not cheap. they are still pricey but its a good way to save money and these guys tend to know what they are at.

Third piece of advice. Forget the hype. I have personally owned 12 BMWs, i absolutely love them. Nothing drives as well as a BMW, i have owned a few 3 series a few 5 series a 6 series and a 7 series. of multiple generations. they are pure driving machines BUT they are among the most unreliable cars on the road, truly disgraceful reliability and i can think of few brands worse.

Their service departments are nice as pie for servicing but when something goes wrong they will ignore you and drive you to breaking point. Once upon a time they may have been good but these days BMWs are not that fancy or rare and the owning experience leaves a lot to be desired.

bazz26

Chiparus wrote: »

I would rather not say, but they have been very good to me,

If they are really good to you in return for your years of loyalty to them then they should be fighting tooth and nail on your behalf with BMW to do more. It sounds like they really are not though. As said, in a lot of cases the level of goodwill offered by a manufacturer can be determined by the case your dealer puts before them.

KFed

Would you consider taking legal advice? If the best bmw / the dealer are offering a repeat buyer is 5k off a 15k repair, having bought 5 new models in the recent past, I'd consider that derisory.

If the car was serviced on schedule in network using oem parts, by definition, yet, the engine failed at 180k km, then, would bmws defence be, well, the part that failed isn't a service part. And we contend it shouldn't last more than 180k km, so, they're implying their engines are good for no more that that.

I heard anecdotally of timing chain cases going legal.

I'd imagine you'd a case. A legal letter might focus a few minds in h.q.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Harcrid

Having had a somewhat similar experience (Timing Chain in my case) I can say that there is a chance you can get BMW to stump up but be prepared for a battle. There are many factors you will need to overcome. As said before, you need your dealer to be pushing the case on your behalf but even they have to battle with getting budget for it. BMW has a limited pot of cash for goodwill repairs like this so it can even depend on what time of the quarter your claim goes in.

With me I was told initially that BMW would not cover my timing chain damage, but contant communication and pushing my case with them resulted in a new engine being provided, on a 9 year old car I might add. In saying that, 2 newer cars with full BMM service history were refused the week after mine was approved so its a lottery.

newmember2

Harcrid wrote: »

Having had a somewhat similar experience (Timing Chain in my case) I can say that there is a chance you can get BMW to stump up but be prepared for a battle. There are many factors you will need to overcome. As said before, you need your dealer to be pushing the case on your behalf but even they have to battle with getting budget for it. BMW has a limited pot of cash for goodwill repairs like this so it can even depend on what time of the quarter your claim goes in.

With me I was told initially that BMW would not cover my timing chain damage, but contant communication and pushing my case with them resulted in a new engine being provided, on a 9 year old car I might add. In saying that, 2 newer cars with full BMM service history were refused the week after mine was approved so its a lottery.

Keane's on the Naas Rd got me a full timing chain tensioners and all chains replaced on an N47 with a rattly chain and I didn't know them from Adam and the car was a UK import with little service history. According to them the initial offer from BMW was parts only and they pushed and got the labour covered as well. That was their story anyway. Would not be keen to get in another BMW with their seeming knack for designing engines that suffer catastrophic failures.