University cancels professor over use of word

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

...that sounded like the N-word...in Chinese...because...?

Full article from the BBC linked.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54107329

Start of article.

The suspension of a US university professor has ignited a debate over the use of a seemingly innocuous Chinese word.
Professor Greg Patton at the University of Southern California (USC) was telling students in a communications lecture last month about filler, or pause words, such as 'err', 'umm' or 'you know' in English.
Footage of his lecture, which has now gone viral, shows Prof Patton saying: "In China, the common pause word is 'that, that, that'. So in China, it might be na-ge, na-ge, na-ge."
Annunciated, na-ge sounds like the N-word...

“Has ignited a debate”... what sort of absolute gobshyte thinks there’s a debate to be had around this?

I've just watched the offending video.


Madness.

mcmoustache

Hunky Monster wrote: »

...that sounded like the N-word...in Chinese...because...?

Full article from the BBC linked.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54107329

Start of article.



“Has ignited a debate”... what sort of absolute gobshyte thinks there’s a debate to be had around this?

This is stupidly dumb. Any students who have problems with this should be turfed out of the university or moved to some useless but "safe" course because they clearly are not equipped to handle many aspects of life yet.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

mcmoustache wrote: »

This is stupidly dumb. Any students who have problems with this should be turfed out of the university or moved to some useless but "safe" course because they clearly are not equipped to handle many aspects of life yet.

You see that’s a bit hard with the SJW’s and their mob rule mentality. I have no doubt in my mind he was suspended to stop more violence/damage to property.

DesperateDan

America has gone mad

MarkR

A quote from the article sums it up well.

"For him to be censored simply because a Chinese word sounds like an English pejorative term is a mistake and is not appropriate, especially given the educational setting," she said. "It also dismisses the fact that Chinese is a real language and has its own pronunciations that have no relation to English."

Padraig Mor

Sometimes the only appropriate reaction to a story is - "for ****'s sake".

WrenBoy

China is gonna eat the US alive if this is the type of graduates they're producing.

DangerScouse

DesperateDan wrote: »

America has gone mad

Gone mad? I lived there for 12 years and it's always been mad.

Be right back

God love the poor students. They have to be kept 'psychologically safe'. How would they cope outside of college?

suicide_circus

Those students had a very niggardly interpretation of the professor's motivations

alias no.9

Having visited China with work a few times, the similarity of this commonly uttered Chinese word with the word in question is definitely apparent. If you hear it in passing, you might think you heard the N word but once you actually listen, it's just not the same word, even when you don't understand Chinese.

Donald Trump

Proper order. There should be no place in academia for people who use such racial slurs.

People always need to find out all of the words the sound like a word that a black person might object to in any language in any country in the world.

I always get upset here when people talk about what they had for their dinner - don't they know that "spuds" sounds like a derogatory slur used against darker skinned people in the Australian aboriginal Ngunnawal language which has been extinct since before the early 1800s? Check your privilege people!

There should be no place for any of that kind of reprehensible behaviour. Just fire the silly honkey right now.

jmayo

So basically US students and no doubt the modern advocacy groups want other peoples, races, nationalities to change their language to suit their agenda.

And no doubt our own social justice types who now look to America for guidance will want to follow suit.

FFS.

Could someone remind these spanners how old some of the major Chinese dialects are and that they have been around a lot longer that their American or as the rest of us would say English.
Chinese language is the oldest written language and they want it fooking changed. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I think the world needs another major world war or something to refocus minds to more important matters.
The cold war managed to keep attention focused a good few decades, but once that went lunacy started to take over.

And the Covid19 pandemic just isn't pandemic enough to stop this shyteology.

Cordell

Sometimes I think the world needs another major world war or something to refocus minds to more important matters.

Something like, let's say, a global pandemic? Made up problems like gender neutral toilets and diversity issues took a back seat for a month or two, now they're back on the front page.

Off with his head!

jmayo

Cordell wrote: »

Something like, let's say, a global pandemic? Made up problems like gender neutral toilets and diversity issues took a back seat for a month or two, now they're back on the front page.

Did you not read my last line.

It isn't a great enough pandemic.
Maybe if it had greater effects on college going age, on people from more privileged backgrounds with nothing better to do, it might have more noticable impact on these gobdaws.

Now the likes of an ebola pandemic might, just might, put a stop to this.

the purple tin

The Dean who booted him off the course is the real bollocks of the story.
He should have stood up for his employee and said this is an innocent misunderstanding.
By suspending him he has given the story legs and given the twitter twits another platform to spout their BS.

quokula

A business professor at the University of Southern California became the center of an international academic controversy last weekend, after ​the school administration received a letter accusing him of using Chinese words that sounded like an English racial slur. ​

The letter was not signed by any individuals, but instead by "Black MBA candidates c/o 2022."

CNN obtained a copy of the letter, but could not find an official USC group by that name or reach the letter-writers for comment.

A USC Marshall spokesperson told CNN that Patton has not been suspended from teaching; he has only stepped away from the specific course in question, and continues to teach his other classes.

So he hasn't been suspended or reprimanded in any way, and the only complaint about him was made anonymously. Sounds very much like some people were trying to manufacture a culture war so the usual perpetually outraged people have more "cancel culture" to get outraged about.

antodeco

Richie Kavanagh wouldn't stand a chance!

TomTomTim

the purple tin wrote: »

The Dean who booted him off the course is the real bollocks of the story.
He should have stood up for his employee and said this is an innocent misunderstanding.
By suspending him he has given the story legs and given the twitter twits another platform to spout their BS.

This has been the scariest thing about cancel culture. Employers bowing down to demands of these types without question, firing likely loyal employees because of the whims of radical activists.

petronius

I was told by a chinese academic that they call white people ghost people? it sounded like "Gwaylow" as a result the european people in the group began to refer to themselves as gwaylow.

another term Big Noses? probably not nice and uncool - but I am not sure I would recognise it if i heard it

They will probably ban daoine or fear gorm in the irish language soon

M256

I was told that Peadar sounds extremely offensive is some Eastern European languages, so does Handon

The closest it could be compared to that word would be "nigga".

Context has become terribly unfashionable these days. Personally, I can't believe that such a ruling was made... what kind of society are they creating for themselves? Just seems utterly retarded to me.

I wonder are the students traumatized when Black people call each other the N word? Hmmm.. I guess there's a case for white people becoming traumatised when black people use the word, since they've been conditioned to be uncomfortable with it's use within society. Wonder if that would fly.

jmayo

quokula wrote: »

So he hasn't been suspended or reprimanded in any way, and the only complaint about him was made anonymously. Sounds very much like some people were trying to manufacture a culture war so the usual perpetually outraged people have more "cancel culture" to get outraged about.

Now you may play this that he hasn't been affected because he has not been officially suspended or reprimanded, but he and probably his career have been affected by the very fact he has been a subject of media discussion and had to step away from the course.

He has publicly been named and him having to resign from doing this course is on his record.

Of course as usual the ones excusing this type of shyteshow pandering to "PC gone mad" demands will always argue on technicalities.

Sure he is grand, his career and life hasn't been affected one bit by this nonsense. :rolleyes:

the purple tin

jmayo wrote: »

Now you may play this that he hasn't been affected because he has not been officially suspended or reprimanded, but he and probably his career have been affected by the very fact he has been a subject of media discussion and had to step away from the course.

He has publicly been named and him having to resign from doing this course is on his record.

Of course as usual the ones excusing this type of shyteshow pandering to "PC gone mad" demands will always argue on technicalities.

Sure he is grand, his career and life hasn't been affected one bit by this nonsense. :rolleyes:

If he ever tried getting work in another university, this incident would be a big black mark against him (pardon the pun).

BeardySi

Question for anyone who can be bothered to find the video - was he giving similar examples from other languages or did he just land on chinese for some reason?

quokula

jmayo wrote: »

Now you may play this that he hasn't been affected because he has not been officially suspended or reprimanded, but he and probably his career have been affected by the very fact he has been a subject of media discussion and had to step away from the course.

He has publicly been named and him having to resign from doing this course is on his record.

Of course as usual the ones excusing this type of shyteshow pandering to "PC gone mad" demands will always argue on technicalities.

Sure he is grand, his career and life hasn't been affected one bit by this nonsense. :rolleyes:

I agree that his life has very much been impacted by right-leaning media turning nothing into something and manufacturing a culture war around him to distract from the real issues in society. I haven't seen a single example of any actual real person who is a supposed "SJW" and actually supports him being suspended (which he wasn't, despite large swathes of the media pretending he was) - the only criticism of him came in the form of an anonymous letter which probably came from people trying to create the misguided outrage that this thread is full of (or at most it might be a prank gone wrong) - it doesn't surprise me that he chose to stop teaching this class since he doesn't know which student in it is the one that filmed him and wrote the anonymous letter.

petronius

petronius wrote: »

I was told by a chinese academic that they call white people ghost people? it sounded like "Gwaylow" as a result the european people in the group began to refer to themselves as gwaylow.

It's not common, and even within Chinese society, it's seen as a rude word. Most Chinese would use the more mainstream word, "laowai". "Gwailo" is Cantonese, I think, rather than mainsteam Mandarin. I learned it myself long ago, but have rarely heard it used in conversations.

another term Big Noses? probably not nice and uncool - but I am not sure I would recognise it if i heard it

Except that Big Noses are connected with sexuality. A big nose suggesting a big... so, it's not really an insult of any kind.

Although Chinese people can be incredibly racist at times, they're generally quite polite in how they refer to foreigners... many foreigners speak some Chinese, so they've learned to be more careful. It's just with the local dialects that they're more likely to regress to using the more ignorant words about foreigners... but again, there's rarely any racism involved.. unless the foreigner is Black.

In any case, it's like the thread on Expat on AA, it's about people looking to get offended, rather than the words themselves having any serious negative meaning. Creating negative associations about words, so they can be shut down, while at the same time, justifying all the time that people invest in getting offended.

osarusan

quokula wrote: »

So he hasn't been suspended or reprimanded in any way, and the only complaint about him was made anonymously. Sounds very much like some people were trying to manufacture a culture war so the usual perpetually outraged people have more "cancel culture" to get outraged about.

No doubt people will try and spin this as far worse than it is, but it is bad enough already.


There's no reason for him to even be stepping away from that particular course.

MoonUnit75

quokula wrote: »

So he hasn't been suspended or reprimanded in any way, and the only complaint about him was made anonymously. Sounds very much like some people were trying to manufacture a culture war so the usual perpetually outraged people have more "cancel culture" to get outraged about.

Absolutely correct. There's no story here. The quasi-religious fundamentalism of these and a growing number of students is perfectly fine. McCarthyism was just a warm up for this, but isn't it great!

is_that_so

BeardySi wrote: »

Question for anyone who can be bothered to find the video - was he giving similar examples from other languages or did he just land on chinese for some reason?

It's the ignorance of the beholder problem. For example one could use the Irish word "focal" and be deemed by equally ignorant monoglots to be swearing. He offered context to it and communications is his thing.

KaneToad

What about a film studies professor talking about Ruth Negga. Do they have to self censor?

What about the academic study of offensive racial terms? Is the literature just a load of redacted text?

quokula

quokula wrote: »

I agree that his life has very much been impacted by right-leaning media turning nothing into something and manufacturing a culture war around him to distract from the real issues in society. I haven't seen a single example of any actual real person who is a supposed "SJW" and actually supports him being suspended (which he wasn't, despite large swathes of the media pretending he was) - the only criticism of him came in the form of an anonymous letter which probably came from people trying to create the misguided outrage that this thread is full of (or at most it might be a prank gone wrong) - it doesn't surprise me that he stopped teaching this class since he doesn't know which student in it is the one that filmed him and wrote the anonymous letter.

You're missing the influence that student groups have in Universities in the US. No university wants to get a bad reputation, since that would affect signing up to courses... and they're already suffering in terms of revenue. Complaints by students about lecturers tend to be taken quite seriously, with this topic of racism being something rather strong considering the current atmosphere with BLM.

You can't really separate things here. There have been so many past "incidents" of student groups marching, boycotting, causing trouble in the name of perceived racism or equality, combined with the present state of the US... any university is going to be very uncomfortable with generating student anger.. and from what I've seen, it doesn't take much to get them all whipped up.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

BeardySi wrote: »

Question for anyone who can be bothered to find the video - was he giving similar examples from other languages or did he just land on chinese for some reason?

If you can’t be bothered to find the video yourself I can’t be bothered answering you.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

What's the N word?

quokula

quokula wrote: »

So he hasn't been suspended or reprimanded in any way, and the only complaint about him was made anonymously. Sounds very much like some people were trying to manufacture a culture war so the usual perpetually outraged people have more "cancel culture" to get outraged about.

He has needlessly stepped away from the course in question. His name is being needlessly besmirched. He did absolutely zero wrong.

Total nonsense.

BeardySi

BeardySi wrote: »

Question for anyone who can be bothered to find the video - was he giving similar examples from other languages or did he just land on chinese for some reason?

He chose an example from the most widely spoken language in the world.

kenmm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

...that sounded like the N-word...in Chinese...because...?

Full article from the BBC linked.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54107329

Start of article.



“Has ignited a debate”... what sort of absolute gobshyte thinks there’s a debate to be had around this?

But you love it tho, don't you?

Yellow_Fern

BeardySi wrote: »

Question for anyone who can be bothered to find the video - was he giving similar examples from other languages or did he just land on chinese for some reason?

I think because he was drawing on his experience of teaching in two different Chinese universities.

Danzy

Hunky Monster wrote: »

...that sounded like the N-wytun Mord...in Chinese...because...?

Full article from the BBC linked.
5 hip ji
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54107329

Start of article.



“Has ignited a debate”... what sort of absolute gobshyte thinks there’s a debate to be had around this?

We live in an increasingly conformist society.

Due to a lack of genuine transgressions, the righteous have to go for stupid things like this.

It is not just that they enjoy jumping on someone but the randomness of it, the innocuous reason to destroy a person. It beats others in to silence.

The modern left have become the Jesuits.

That's not a coincidence, it's the same middle class holies.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

kenmm wrote: »

But you love it tho, don't you?

Have you a point or just wanna go with personal jibes?

kenmm

Danzy wrote: »

The modern left have become the Jesuits.

Here we go :pac:

893bet

https://youtu.be/24JhHLpgjXI


This is the offending video.


The only person who isn’t wrong in this is the professor. The Dean should be shot with his own ****.

Errashareesh

kenmm wrote: »

Here we go :pac:

Someone I went to college with - staunchly socialist and feminist - is even saying it (particularly in relation to how today's feminists are actually anything but) so maybe there's something in it.

Are the students who complained really dense or what? Did they not know the course they had signed up to and were they not listening to the lecture he was giving? If they were following along then they would have understood what he had just said.

There must be some seriously stupid people getting into courses in USC.

TomTomTim

KaneToad wrote: »

What about a film studies professor talking about Ruth Negga. Do they have to self censor?

What about the academic study of offensive racial terms? Is the literature just a load of redacted text?

They'll have to stop teaching about Niger in geography classes too haha

kenmm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Have you a point or just wanna go with personal jibes?

Not really a personal jibe. The story is obviously a load of **** - what more do you want from it?

Some other crappy argument on the internet?

TomTomTim

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Are the students who complained really dense or what? Did they not know the course they had signed up to and were they not listening to the lecture he was giving? If they were following along then they would have understood what he had just said.

There must be some seriously stupid people getting into courses in USC.

If you haven't noticed by now, these people don't give a damn about context or intent.

jmayo

quokula wrote: »

I agree that his life has very much been impacted by right-leaning media turning nothing into something and manufacturing a culture war around him to distract from the real issues in society. I haven't seen a single example of any actual real person who is a supposed "SJW" and actually supports him being suspended (which he wasn't, despite large swathes of the media pretending he was) - the only criticism of him came in the form of an anonymous letter which probably came from people trying to create the misguided outrage that this thread is full of (or at most it might be a prank gone wrong) - it doesn't surprise me that he chose to stop teaching this class since he doesn't know which student in it is the one that filmed him and wrote the anonymous letter.

Ahh yes it is all the fault of the right wing. :rolleyes:

Was the professor removed from the course before the story broke on any right wing media like the National Review and subsequently became Nationwide and now worldwide ?

Had there been complaints about him before they broke the story ?

Did the National Review not break the story that he had been "paused" from the course ?

Did the National Review not do the story on Sep 3rd about the incident happening on virtual lecture on Aug 20th ?

Was the letter of complaint not sent on Aug 21st ?

Did Greg Patton not apologise on Aug 26th ?

Patton denied intentionally mispronouncing the Chinese word and offered “another deep apology for the discomfort and pain that I have caused members of our Community.” He added that “While no derogatory or racial slur was or has even been used, and the example was framed as from China and in Chinese, and although my intent has been and always will be 100 positive towards every student, I recognize that I need to get better. And I will continue to learn from, partner with and grow together with my students in continually working to create a more perfect learning environment.”

Was it not on August 24th that the Dean Geoff Garrett sent a letter to the school community about the incident and saying Patton had been removed from teaching the class?

Dear Full-Time MBA Class of 2022,

Last Thursday in your GSBA-542 classes, Professor Greg Patton repeated several times a Chinese word that sounds very similar to a vile racial slur in English. Understandably, this caused great pain and upset among students, and for that I am deeply sorry. It is simply unacceptable for faculty to use words in class that can marginalize, hurt and harm the psychological safety of our students. We must and we will do better.

Professor Marion Philadelphia, Chair of the Department of Business Communications, will take over teaching the remainder of GSBA-542, beginning tomorrow, Tuesday August 25.

Over the coming weeks and months, I have no higher priority than to work with Vice Dean Sharoni Little, Vice Dean Suh-Pyng Ku and the other members of the Marshall leadership team to identify and redress bias, microaggressions, inequities and all forms of systemic racism associated with anyone’s identity throughout our school. We each must grow and learn always to engage respectfully with one another while fostering and exemplifying the knowledge and skills needed to lead and shape our diverse and global world—such as courage, empathy, compassion, advocacy, collaboration, and integrity.

I am deeply saddened by this disturbing episode that has caused such anguish and trauma. What happened cannot be undone. But please know that Sharoni, Suh-Pyng and I along with the entire Full-Time MBA Program team are here to support each of you. We welcome the opportunity to have conversations with any of you individually.

Sincerely,

Geoff Garrett

So was Greg Patton not publicly reprimanded by the Deans letter to the school and also by being replaced as the lecturer on the course.

Oh and all long before you claim this was all caused by right wing media getting involved ?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Those bloody right wing SJW’s up to no good as usual..: