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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    And you couldn't mention other countries, you were howled at that "THIS IS AN IRISH SITE AND WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT IRISH RESTRICTIONS!!!"


    now they bring up the most minor restrictions from far flung places to try to keep thier silly conspiracy alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    New CT; Monkeypox.

    COVID of course is a nothing illness anymore and everyone is sick to death of it, but no worries, monkeypox is a new disease that has started to make waves.

    Of course, this is a CT theory and not an actual discussion on monkeypox but the CT goes that this disease has been planned and will in effect become the next pandemic. Where does this CT come from?

    Last year, the NTI partnered with the Munich Security Conference to conduct a tabletop exercise on reducing high-consequence biological threats. The exercise examined gaps in national and international biosecurity and pandemic preparedness architectures—exploring opportunities to improve prevention and response capabilities for high-consequence biological events. Participants included 19 senior leaders and experts from across Africa, the Americas, Asia, and Europe with decades of combined experience in public health, biotechnology industry, international security, and philanthropy. Developed in consultation with technical and policy experts, the fictional exercise scenario portrayed a deadly, global pandemic involving an unusual strain of monkeypox virus that first emerged in the fictional nation of Brinia and spread globally over 18 months. Ultimately, the exercise scenario revealed that the initial outbreak was caused by a terrorist attack using a pathogen engineered in a laboratory with inadequate biosafety and biosecurity provisions and weak oversight. By the end of the exercise, the fictional pandemic resulted in more than three billion cases and 270 million fatalities worldwide.


    Discussions throughout the tabletop exercise generated a range of valuable insights and key findings. Most significantly, exercise participants agreed that, notwithstanding improvements following the global response to COVID-19, the international system of pandemic prevention, detection, analysis, warning, and response is woefully inadequate to address current and anticipated future challenges. Gaps in the international biosecurity and pandemic preparedness architecture are extensive and fundamental, undermining the ability of the international community to prevent and mount effective responses to future biological events—including those that could match the impacts of COVID-19 or cause damage that is significantly more severe.

    Just to say at this point, where monkeypox is in no way threat to society like COVID was and, based on what we know, will never be a threat like COVID, that monkeypox becoming something that has restrictions once again imposed on societies would, for me, be almost impossible to believe was anything other than a Trojan horse or a deflection for something more nefarious.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    The thing is that this is claimed about every pandemic or new illness. It was claimed about covid when it started too.

    What about this one makes you think it would turn out differently?

    In what way was the disease "planned"?

    Why do these guys when they do these exercises always happen to pick the one scenario that is planned to be actually used by the global conspiracy? It's always a give away...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭ Seathrun66


    Over 15 million dead. The survival rate is 98% not the nonsensical 99.9% regularly referred to. One in fifty die. That's too much and protecting our most vulnerable is essential.




    .

    Post edited by Seathrun66 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    Well, the participants of the study are of apparent credibility in terms of their experience, credentials etc. Further, I have not seen many other pandemic plans of the scale of which this one was undertaken so if you are referencing that there are in fact many pandemic type plans, it would help to post them.

    Lastly,the interesting thing about this CT is that almost none of us ever heard of monkeypox up until a few weeks ago and yet over a year ago it was the chosen disease for a "fictional" pandemic, which, in the fictional scenario, coincidentally took hold in the mainstream discourse on 15 May 2022. Quite a coincidence indeed and the timing is perfect for covid restrictions just dropping off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Are the participants of the study/exercise claiming that it was trial run for a secret evil plot to take over the world?


    For other examples of conspiracy theories about pandemics being used to take over the world, you only need to look at this thread.

    Have a search on the forum for terms like Zika, swineflu, birdflu, SARS. you'll find basically the same stuff being claimed in those threads too.

    Likewise, look up Jade Helm and other "readiness excerise" related terms.


    But I had heard of monkeypox before hand. Cause it's a funny sounding word. The disease has been around for ages. https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/index.html

    But that doesn't really answer the question. Why would they use monkeypox in both the exercise and the real deal? Why drop a clue like that?

    Why not do the excerise with a different disease? Or do it with monkeypox, but then say in public that it was a different disease. Or better yet, keep the excerise entirely secret.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    Perhaps they used monkeypox as they are getting too arrogant that people will just swallow whatever it is they are told. This can of course be possible as it is often the case that serial killers or abusers get cocky the longer they get away with their crimes.

    The participants in the study are not claiming it is about world domination but I don't think that is the real point of the CT. The CT is that COVID or monkeypox are being used as a justification for shoehorning in something else into society like biometric health passports or population control etc. It is not a CT to say that the billionaire elites do have some influence over democratically elected governments, not necessarily saying control but definitely influence and often this influence can take the form of lobby groups and NGOs.

    For me, I am of the view still that any sort of restrictions to combat monkeypox should be treated as a red flag as there is nothing at all that would indicate the State should impose any sort of restrictions on the general public. However, if there are no restrictions or mass mandatory vaccination programmes like with COVID or masks or anything then I will firmly admit this CT is bogus.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    OK. So they so arrogant that they're going to leave a hint about their secret plan out in the open for literally no reason?

    Do you understand how that sounds a little silly for most people whodunit subscribe to conspiracy theories?


    Do these experts claim that their plan is to introduce measures that aren't needed for nefarious purposes? I'm still a bit confused as to why the fact they are experts is somehow supporting the conspiracy theory here.


    But good for you for actually nailing down a failure condition for your conspiracy theory. That's a rare sight.

    So if there's no new restrictions or measures due to monkey pox by the end of June you'll admit that thr conspiracy theory was false?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    Why June? The timeline from the "fictional" scenario was it? I think we will see in the next 6 weeks if this monkeypox thing looks like it will become an actual "we need restrictions" type event and it is growing in prominence fairly rapidly (presumably as the Ukraine skirmish is not dominating the news as much) so end of June is reasonable.

    A delay to central banks introducing QT and raising interest rates, citing monkeypox as the reason, would be another red flag for me btw as I do sense there is some CT potential in the pumping up of the asset bubble with QE and low interest rates, moreso than biometric passports or population control. To introduce QT and raise rates will cause the global recession which could be a massive event and the central banks are constantly biding their time in order to avoid biting the bullet and collapsing asset prices.

    So, somewhat counterintuitively I appreciate; seeing restrictions imposed due to monkeypox and seeing a delay to meaningful interest rate rises and QT, blaming monkey pox, would indicate to me that monkeypox is a Trojan horse.

    A side note; I do think there would be a relevance to this thread for a discussion on this monkypox CT as, for those of us sceptical of the COVID measures, it would not be surprising to see something new be used as a reason to reimpose restrictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Why not June?

    Conspiracy theories like this never actually give themselves set deadlines, usually so they can weasel and squirm away from their claims.


    So what will happen by the end of June that will indicate that the conspiracy theory is correct? What will indicate that it was not correct?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    Seeing restrictions would indicate to me it has legs, but even seeing some calls for restrictions would raise alarm bells.

    "Mild illness" is how this monkey pox usually manifests, by all accounts, and prolonged physical contact with an infected person is needed to spread it, it would seem, so therefore I see zero justification for masks, social distancing, widespread vaccinations etc and therefore calls for these things will flag for me that something else might be going on here.

    The media aren't necessarily talking this thing up for clickbait reasons and, as we saw with COVID, there could be mysterious "awareness campaigns" being paid for that result in the articles we see in the media. But it doesn't really make sense that we should be seeing multiple, prominent articles in the media to do with monkeypox right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    Ok. So if by the end of June there's no restrictions due to monkey pox, you'll agree the theory has failed?

    What are you defining as "calls for restrictions"? That's a very wishy washy term I think.


    But why does it not make sense for you to see articles about it in the media?

    Why does "It's a global worldwide conspiracy to introduce evil restrictions" make sense to you? Especially given that this was claimed for covid too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    If there is little progress on the hysteria-meter that we have borrowed from the covid mob, then I think this CT will not grow any legs and will, like smallpox, be eradicated.

    It almost seems a bit ridiculous now the scenario planning used which involved monkeypox as the virus for the simulation - what is effectively a bit of a cold and a rash with nothing more serious from it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    That's not really a respons to my post man. Try again.


    First please define what you mean by "progress on the hysteria meter"?


    I think based on my experience of conspiracy theories you are keeping this term vague and open so as not to make any solid prediction that might be falsified.

    You could argue you were right if the WHO says anything about the virus being contained regardless of how innocuous the statement is.


    So please define your terms. Make a solid prediction and stand by it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    If you like a timeline, then I'm afraid we are veering out of the CT world and into the real world. A CT is by its very definition not something that I could nail down specifically to a timeline or even to a specific set of events. If you would like it to be like this then I would suggest the Current Affairs thread on the topic.

    Therefore, what I will say adds credence to this CT is that we see the following progress in the disease;

    1. A narrative starts to appear that there is something being looked at here, usually accompanied with a "we're not worried, but doing some monitoring". This is to plant a seed in the public discourse and get people aware of the disease.
    2. The narrative shifts slightly more towards highlighting that there is something to be concerned about for certain people, but it is left a bit vague in how it is communicated so you find there are more people concerned than actually should be concerned if they read around the media reports and focused on the hard data.
    3. Some other country will be reported in the local news because they have taken what appears to be a serious and strong reaction to monkeypox e.g. re-introducing masks or imposing restrictions on certain travel or even on certain groups. However, while more people are now starting to take note of monkeypox, they still feel that there is a distance to what is happening in that country.
    4. Calls grow for certain action, portrayed as minimal, to combat spread of monkeypox, pointing to the other country that took measures and using them as a guide for what we should be doing. The official line from the government is that they are now monitoring the situation but not looking to introduce anything. Hysteria grows in the public discourse.
    5. Word gets out through backchannels that some measures will be introduced, ultimately followed by such measures being introduced. As these measures are introduced then the nefarious action that hid in the Trojan horse of monkeypox gets carried out (e.g. biometric passports, central banks keeping rates low and commencing QE once again).


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,483 ✭✭✭ whippet


    sounds like what is a normal response to any international event or incident - so not really offering any insight. Just vague enough to be akin to a tarot card reader's waffle.

    Of course with anything that could have potential societal risks.

    So what you are saying is that Biometric passports will be introduced and interest rates will be low along with QE. Interest rates can remain low for a multitude of reasons, the US has implemented QE four times in the last 15 years ... so two out of three of your 'metrics' will more than likely happen in the short or midterm ... regardless of any pandemic or monkeypox outbreak .... all that you are waiting on is the introduction of the 'Biometric Passport' (you haven't actually said what this is exactly) ... and your CT will hold out on the promise that I've predicted 2/3 things ... it's just a matter of time !!!

    So predictable



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,670 ✭✭✭✭ King Mob


    No, you're not nailing down the conspiracy theory because I suspect you're trying to leave yourself some wriggle room for when the predictions fail.

    If you were actually basing this on any special insight or secret information, you wouldn't have any issues being specific. Instead it just kinda looks like you're making all of this up like people did with covid and pretty much every previous pandemic and health crisis.


    So by what time will the 5 points you posted play out?

    End of June? Six months? Some vaguely defined deadline far in the future that you'll never actually have to face?



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,648 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    waffle. nothing else. the same waffle was said when covid appeared.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭ silliussoddius


    On the plus side we will no upgrade to 6G.



  • Subscribers Posts: 35,720 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    seems like as good a time as any to pull out the @nullzero post where he proposed an excellent template for those trying to exposit a CT here:


    A useful thought going forward might be to have a standard template for the OP of each new thread to follow.

    Outlining things such as;


    1.Subject (the conspiracy being discussed)

    2.Who the conspirators are (outline who "they" are)

    3.Why the conspirators decided to conspire on this particular subject.

    4.How the conspirators will ultimately benefit from the conspiracy.

    5.Outline how the conspirators failed to keep their plans secret (it's up for discussion here after all)

    6.Outline how the conspiracy will play out if it has not already done so.

    7.Give as much reasonable evidence as possible (in fact a scale of probability could be applied to each topic by mods related to how grounded or outlandish the topic at hand may be).

    8.Give a short list of both Pro's and Con's relating to the subject at hand (outlining what the theory should be taken seriously and also showing an understanding of why it might not be).

    so @Amadan Dubh over to you .......



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,174 ✭✭✭ splashthecash



    I'm sure someone has done this already, but would be curious to get OP's thoughts as of today, on his above post. Likely won't get any response but thought I'd ask none the less...



  • Subscribers Posts: 35,720 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    hes too busy, off denying the Tuam baby scandal.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    I think you've lost sight of the actual CT and focused on the potential reasons as to why monkeypox could be a trojan horse. I mean, I have not hung my hat on any of the possible reasons as to why there may be a subversive motive for talking up this fairly benign illness and if that is the direction to go down well in theory we could be here forever trying to think of possible reasons as to why a pandemic would be used as a cloak to introduce measures on society that would otherwise be a tough sell without a seemingly bona fides motive (i.e. to protect society from the pandemic we need to introduce X).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    Again, I think you are struggling to engage constructively and are attempting to reduce the CT to a simply "will it happen by X date, yes or no, as the whole likelihood of it being something possible depends on an exact timeline being produced" (maybe for your own comprehension purposes it may be easier to do this?). A bit too reductivist to be honest for me to engage with your line of questioning, so the best I can offer you King Mob is as stated already I'm afraid.

    To tie this back into the general CT in the thread and to touch upon a previous argument I made; could you see masks being reintroduced or vaccine passports needing to be updated due to the argument that covid is something justifying such actions once again?



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,648 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    I'm not sure to what exact end, I mean there was certainly some calls at different times for measures that would make the CCP proud (eg needing to show a vaccine pass just to do something completely regular in society), but by leaving the possibility of mask wearing and other COVID measures to be introduced each year, for example in the winter (typical respiratory illness time of year), it is effectively an admission that COVID measures are at the very least semi-permanent - which is the CT of this thread.



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