Poor quality work

leroypatches

Hi,
Any thoughts on what to do?
I got an extension done by a builder. His subbie electrician was always holding everything back. Never there when he needed to be.

Now the job is done. Parts of the original house were reconfigured. Now I’m finding random unterminated live wires in several places. A Live feed an old two way switches with live strappers heading off to no fitting. New Cables behind skim. After-thought cables running behind skirting. Joins under attic floor with no boxes. Raging as everything else done very well.

Whats the best thing to do?

leroypatches

Would love some thoughts from other electricians

Invite the contractor back to inspect the work and ask if they'd like to address it before you have it independantly audited and assessed by safe electric.

To be honest I'm what's known as a cowboy in the industry and I fix RECI/professional fitter/auto-sparks work so often I take it as par for the course it's actually my business model. I don't raise issue over when things are incorrectly or poorly implemented other than informing the client. Unterminated live wires?....I'd take them to task.

I'm just finishing a barge. It's now got 4 times the power output from my installing all the equipemnt that was previously mounted to the vessel in a more effective manner. My rates are lower than the last guy too.

Tuco88

By the sounds of it the he won't be easy to get back. Was he a member of RECI?

That may not be that unfortunate.

Here I've a 1994 camper. A tyre fitter ruined 2 of my rims 2 years ago with an impact gun. The only discontinued from manufacture replacements I can source are €300 each. I can just put the old ones on but then I need a tractor impact to take them off..which is easy peasy get on the side of a road but what happens when i break a wheel stud?

Who should I call to remedy the situation for me?

Sir Liamalot

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Unterminated live wires?....I'd take them to task.

To clarify: If they are live wires as opposed to inert brown insulated copper strands.

leroypatches

Tuco88 wrote: »

By the sounds of it the he won't be easy to get back. Was he a member of RECI?

He is. And is coming back. Just trying to see how best to handle it.

leroypatches

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

To clarify: If they are live wires as opposed to inert brown insulated copper strands.

Yes. Live unfortunately. But left from where demolition occured. Not
being used but not terminated or disconnected from the board.

I now bring rims to tyre fitters instead of vehicles. I just keep getting into arguments the other way around. They prefer it when I don't watch.

leroypatches

leroypatches wrote: »

Yes. Live unfortunately. But left from where demolition occured. Not
being used but not terminated or disconnected from the board.

ffs


Ah...new sparks please! One with a sense of responsibility.

Tuco88

At least show him the issues you have. For peace of mind might be worth getting another Electrician to have a look over the work if possible.

Sir Liamalot, did he use a pneumatic jack hammer to remove the studs thats bad two wheels? I take it its the studs you are looking for not the wheels��

I left the country before I realised what the [#cen$ored*] had done. I tried 3 garages before I found one who could remove the rims. It takes a double handed impact. The rims are dished the studs are stretched. New rims €300 each, 10 new studs €10 each, tyre mounting to new rims €30. €900 for two tyres changed.

I had my car done (another fitter) and had to request they use a torque wrench and they said they didn't have one.

There's no good outcome for the situation LP is bringing to the table other than get the lumox to pay an expert to fix the issue. I wouldn't trust the original sparks to do it right regardless, given the described track record.

Bruthal

leroypatches wrote: »

Yes. Live unfortunately. But left from where demolition occured. Not
being used but not terminated or disconnected from the board.

What method was used to test this?

Bruthal

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

To be honest I'm what's known as a cowboy in the industry and I fix RECI/professional fitter/auto-sparks work so often I take it as par for the course it's actually my business model.

It's astonishing what's out there alright. Endless jobs fixing others incredible bad attempts at electrical work. Always seemed as if doing it right would have been easier than what's often seen.

Being bad is one thing..quite normal...for me to find. Weaponising installations is another.

There's only a handful of people on this planet can wire a liveaboard. I see €60k factory conversions charging at 200W with a designed opertional load of 150W and all wired on 2.5mm² battery cable with a 25W parasitic load. "Go-anywhere" vehicles on their knees 3 hours after leaving a campsite 16A replacing batteries every 2 years.

Meanwhile I'm delivering systems that charge at 3.5kW which is apparently impossible with lead acid and yet I can. Tinternet if rife with old wives tales passed about as industry truths and manufacturers that bald faced lie about their products' performance. Bandwagons of advocates who not only don't measure anything but also don't have a meter.

If you want life without a trailing lead there's not many places to go. My current clients are running an electric kettle and induction hobs from a lead battery with an engine producing 250A with an untapped 1.5kW overhead and four domestic solar panels that are half the price for double the output as the 12Volt variety most turn their nose up at because they are too big and don't say 12V.

It's a rarity I will elect to work downstream of another installers enterprising. Usually it's throw it overboard, keep the cable and start over.

If a client hasn't a clue what they're buying, and an installer has only half a clue what they are doing then the litmus becomes personality and punctuality. Spare me. I fit meters.

leroypatches

Bruthal wrote: »

What method was used to test this?

Phase tester

Don't be the circuit waterbug.

Cerco

leroypatches wrote: »

Phase tester

More like plug and play imho.

leroypatches

Cerco wrote: »

More like plug and play imho.

Don’t get ya?

2011

leroypatches wrote: »

Phase tester

This is type of device is not a reliable way to determine whether a cable is live or not. They can illuminate when mains voltage is not present. A small induced (acceptable and safe voltage) is often enough to make these "phase testers" light up. Worse still they may not illuminate when a conductor is live.

A proper test instrument is required.

leroypatches

I Put multimeter on them too.

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

This is type of device is not a reliable way to determine whether a cable is live or not. They can illuminate when mains voltage is not present. A small induced (acceptable and safe voltage) is often enough to make these "phase testers" light up. Worse still they may not illuminate when a conductor is live.

A proper test instrument is required.

Also a phase tester uses you as part of the circuit, so can fail in spectacularly dangerous ways.

Bruthal

Risteard81 wrote: »

Also a phase tester uses you as part of the circuit, so can fail in spectacularly dangerous ways.

The current can be perceived if the user is in contact with something such as earthed pipework as well.

Risteard81

Risteard81 wrote: »

Also a phase tester uses you as part of the circuit, so can fail in spectacularly dangerous ways.

Making the user a rather over-sophisticated fuse.

leroypatches

All very good points.

Any other advice or thoughts on the original post from any electricians?

Chuck Noland

leroypatches wrote: »

All very good points.

Any other advice or thoughts on the original post from any electricians?

You got the best advise imo already. Document the issues by listing and photographing them. Ask the sparks too review and let them know you’ll be asking Safe Electric to come and take a look at when he’s done as if those issues are easily identifiable from a non spark, it’s quite possible there could be more.

Did you receive any paper work for the installation from the spark?

kramer1

Get a cert out of him and a copy of the test record s

punisher5112

I'm actually shocked at what passes these days, I done 4 years and failed one exam out of 4. Commendation in others and the recession hit, I'd be able to do the job right and better then many I've seen with the papers.

Unfortunate for me with timing to be honest.

As advised, write down all the issues found and get him to sort.

If he doesn't has the builder been fully paid yet? If not and getting nowhere use this to get it rectified and pay when everything is done correctly.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

and get him to sort.

You obviously have more faith in human nature than I do. How's that saying about doing the same thing and expecting different results go again?

kramer1

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

You obviously have more faith in human nature than I do. How's that saying about doing the same thing and expecting different results go again?

Threaten him with reci, he'll make good if he's registered. Has he been paid in full yet?

Make good on the bits that are flagged you mean? What about the bits behind the scenes?

kramer1

Get test record sheets and a cert that should cover a lot of the problems, still worried after that then get someone in to do a periodic inspection. Would give a fair degree of confidence in the installation, not a lot more you can do short of a rewire.

Insulation resistance test. Check every terminal for torque etc....

Maybe I'm just being hypercrytical.

bobbyy gee

get builder back to fix it or call the regulating body

Here a plumber installed two cold taps in my house one is red one is blue...can I get him back to fix it?

Zarco

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Here a plumber installed two cold taps in my house one is red one is blue...can I get him back to fix it?

Had tha conversation with a plumber one day

Was on a job but he didn't seem to care.

Zarco

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Insulation resistance test. Check every terminal for torque etc....

Visual will tell you a lot quickly

Take the cover off the distribution board and see what it's like

Check a few outlets see what they're like


Joins with no boxes doesn't sound great, might be downlights but still

Zarco

Zarco wrote: »

he didn't seem to care.

Good enough for the Irish.

What we call standard I'd say is broken.

Spare me the excuses and BS cold water is coming outtov the red tap...that's not right! I'm too busy finishing insulating the house after the last fellar said it was good enough, to do anything about it right now. :rolleyes:


As regards the original problem. Let the original installer fix his work. Don't pay him anything else. Get a professional to fix it after his fixes and send him the bill.

leroypatches

Thanks a mil for all the comments. He’ll be coming back soon so will have a list and see how it goes. Will get the cert and get it checked by someone else after. Will let you
Know how I get on.

Thanks again.

leroypatches

just a follow up question.

In a cert 3, which the electrician will be issuing, he will certify all the circuitry from the new extension.

What is required of him in relation to the altered circuits in the original house - the original house was reconfigured, so there was a good bit of wiring to be done but he didn’t redo circuits for the like of lights that were moved.

meercat

leroypatches wrote: »

just a follow up question.

In a cert 3, which the electrician will be issuing, he will certify all the circuitry from the new extension.

What is required of him in relation to the altered circuits in the original house - the original house was reconfigured, so there was a good bit of wiring to be done but he didn’t redo circuits for the like of lights that were moved.

The Cert 3 should cover any alterations also.
Ask for a copy of the test records from him too.

leroypatches

Great. Thanks.