Flat wheel, cannot remove lug nuts

pudzey101

Hi currently with insure my van commercial insurance. Wheel is flat as anything due to a nail in it. Can anyone with them before provide me with info if they will tow me to a local tyre place etc.

Any help appreciated. Its just van is parked outside a customers house and am eiger to get removed. Tried changing the spare week but wheel brace snapped so them lug nuts are very well stuck on.

antix80

Best bet is to leave the nail in place and try pumping up the tyre. If air stays in, drive it to the nearest garage.

con747

If you have break down cover just call up and they will fit the spare for you.

pudzey101

Yeah I have a air pump connects via cigarette lighter. The spare tyre I have is way to big for the car don't ask ����

bobbyy gee

Did you go anti clockwise I would borrow another wrench then put metal pole over it
https://www.lockingwheelnutkeys.co.uk/how-to-remove-tight-wheel-nuts

Water John

You need a repair kit, if it won't hold enough to drive to the garage.
https://www.tyrego.ie/product-p/cf560550.htm

Spook_ie

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Did you go anti clockwise I would borrow another wrench then put metal pole over it
https://www.lockingwheelnutkeys.co.uk/how-to-remove-tight-wheel-nuts

^^^^^^^
This When on a school trip many, many years ago in a Transit minibus, we stopped on motorway to change flat tyre, tried everything we could think of to turn the nuts anti clockwise, even using the jack under the wheel brace and the weight of the minibus to try and shift them, nothing doing. Called the breakdown service, along comes guy with wrench and pipe, removes the nut clockwise. Big note stuck onto spare wheel for any teachers in the future!

pudzey101

Spook_ie wrote: »

^^^^^^^
This When on a school trip many, many years ago in a Transit minibus, we stopped on motorway to change flat tyre, tried everything we could think of to turn the nuts anti clockwise, even using the jack under the wheel brace and the weight of the minibus to try and shift them, nothing doing. Called the breakdown service, along comes guy with wrench and pipe, removes the nut clockwise. Big note stuck onto spare wheel for any teachers in the future!

Yeah no literally broke the 21mm 1/2 drive with a extender and pole for leverage. Haha just wondering does breakdown include a flat tyre and bringing it to a garage for repair?

con747

pudzey101 wrote: »

Yeah no literally broke the 21mm 1/2 drive with a extender and pole for leverage. Haha just wondering does breakdown include a flat tyre and bringing it to a garage for repair?

If they can't fix it or put the spare on they would in any break down cover I had.

wonski

That's what the breakdown cover is for.

Rang three times and always happy with the results. Fixed once on the side of the road and towed once back to home no problem (15km).

The third time was an embarrassing one - running out of fuel in the middle of the night. Got a lift to the petrol station and loan of a Jerry can.

No matter how minor the issue is if you can't drive you call them

pudzey101

wonski wrote: »

That's what the breakdown cover is for.

Rang three times and always happy with the results. Fixed once on the side of the road and towed once back to home no problem (15km).

The third time was an embarrassing one - running out of fuel in the middle of the night. Got a lift to the petrol station and loan of a Jerry can.

No matter how minor the issue is if you can't drive you call them

Thanks so much will ring them as soon as they open.

Hoboo

con747 wrote: »

If you have break down cover just call up and they will fit the spare for you.

I haven't changed a tyre in 18 years, insurance breakdown does that

Irishphotodesk

It's possible that the last person who was at the tyres used an electric tool to tighten the nuts, and probably overtightened them, its probable that a mechanic or breakdown assist will be able to sort you out without needing to tow it

Isambard

google your van's manual and check which way the nuts are threaded. Could be the opposite on either side but often that would be indicated with arrows.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

It's possible that the last person who was at the tyres used an electric tool to tighten the nuts, and probably overtightened them, its probable that a mechanic or breakdown assist will be able to sort you out without needing to tow it

He just needed to crack the nuts. Wheel brace + a length of steel pipe over it and boom he’s done.

Isambard

Hunky Monster wrote: »

He just needed to crack the nuts. Wheel brace + a length of steel pipe over it and boom he’s done.

he did that "Yeah no literally broke the 21mm 1/2 drive with a extender and pole for leverage"

emeldc

Everyone should have something like this in the boot.
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/wheel-brace/products/1868893/wheel-master-wrench-17-19-21-23mm?gclid=CjwKCAjwtNf6BRAwEiwAkt6UQvyFwepSXPG-C_YCzFANVhw7bXOfFoiAcw6sxZz7fnp6xspJMNYu4RoCjMcQAvD_BwE

antix80

emeldc wrote: »

Everyone should have something like this in the boot.

Another thing everyone should have is a decent jack. The one in my car is like something out of a kinder egg. People blame manufacturers for wanting to keep costs down but id say their main consideration is keeping down weight and space.

listermint

The problem will either be paint or surface rust in the wheel. Easily solved. You need an impact socket just the socket sized for you wheel nuts. And a lump hammer.

Put socket on give each wheel nut 3 or 4 bangs of the hammer then remove as normal.

I'd the same problem in 3 of the wheels on my van. Broke numerous sockets bent a few bars all to no avail for over an hour . Used the impact socket and hammer and got them off in minutes

listermint

emeldc wrote: »

Everyone should have something like this in the boot.
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/wheel-brace/products/1868893/wheel-master-wrench-17-19-21-23mm?gclid=CjwKCAjwtNf6BRAwEiwAkt6UQvyFwepSXPG-C_YCzFANVhw7bXOfFoiAcw6sxZz7fnp6xspJMNYu4RoCjMcQAvD_BwE

They won't help I bent one completely on mine .

emeldc

listermint wrote: »

They won't help I bent one completely on mine .

The one I posted is a cheap one. You can buy a decent quality one for less than €30. Either way the brace supplied with the car is usually less than useless when the nuts have been put on with an air gun. I bought 4 torq wrenches in Lidl for €20 each and they’re a great job. My daughter had to use hers last week at night (with a little help), otherwise she wouldn’t have got home.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Isambard wrote: »

he did that "Yeah no literally broke the 21mm 1/2 drive with a extender and pole for leverage"

Ah right, didn't see that. Jaysus how tight were they?!

listermint

emeldc wrote: »

The one I posted is a cheap one. You can buy a decent quality one for less than €30. Either way the brace supplied with the car is usually less than useless when the nuts have been put on with an air gun. I bought 4 torq wrenches in Lidl for €20 each and they’re a great job. My daughter had to use hers last week at night (with a little help), otherwise she wouldn’t have got home.

Ive bent an expensive one on my van. i then added a 4 foot extension bar it it broke the expensive socket. You might find leverage isnt the game in town always, Which is why things like impact wrenches exist.

A wrap of a lump hammer on an impact socket is the best cure for a properly seized nut. By properly seized i dont mean over tightened Which is what an extension bar is for.

spaceHopper

Break down should cover you. Just call them and ask them tell them you've already used and extension bar and broken a socket.

bluelamp

pudzey101 wrote: »

Wheel is flat as anything due to a nail in it.

If you pull the nail out with a pliers, screw in a bigger screw in the hole, pump it up, you'll get a few miles out of it to get to a garage.

pudzey101

Got it sorted lads, snapped 2 wheel braces but them cross shaped ones with a large pole done the trick haha cheers for all the help everyone appreciated

newmember2

DIY!!

(I should be a mod ffs) :pac:

colm_mcm

I’d be checking the other wheels too.

peasant

pudzey101 wrote: »

Got it sorted lads, snapped 2 wheel braces but them cross shaped ones with a large pole done the trick haha cheers for all the help everyone appreciated

If you think that it was properly overtightened (and not just stuck due to rust) it might do no harm to have the studs inspected and/or changed at the next service.
Overtightening the nuts can stretch the bolts and they then use their strength...the wheel might literally come off the wagon

pudzey101

Thanks lads I took all 4 wheels off and inspected. Put some anti seize on the lugs and all is good

lomb

pudzey101 wrote: »

Thanks lads I took all 4 wheels off and inspected. Put some anti seize on the lugs and all is good

I dont think your supposed to put any grease on the lugs as it affects torque and retention. Its a good idea to buy new bolts and clean out the threads and use a torque wrench to torque them or keep an eye out for funny noises and if you think your wheel is coming loose pull over immediately.

mickdw

pudzey101 wrote: »

Thanks lads I took all 4 wheels off and inspected. Put some anti seize on the lugs and all is good

Anti seize between the wheel and hub. Dont put it on the threads

pudzey101

mickdw wrote: »

Anti seize between the wheel and hub. Dont put it on the threads

That's what I done just some gt45 or wd40 on the threads

peasant

and again...boring me...:D
Putting anti seize, copper grease etc on the lugs is fine...as long as you put it on the edge only (where the lug touches the wheel) and not on the thread.

Anti-seize on the thread makes it easier to over-tighten the lugs (and difficult to measure the proper torque, if you're so inclined), so once again you're stretching the studs and off come the wheels

There is proper science to putting the nuts on with the correct torque.
You know when you stretch steel it reacts in three different stages;
stage one, it stretches under load and then goes back to it's original shape once the load comes off
stage two, it stretches beyond the point of elasticity, it stays stretched once the load comes off
stage three, it breaks

The torque setting as quoted by the manufacturer is designed to get the studs into elastic stretch...they stretch a bit, but then they want to pull back in, making the whole fit super tight and really secure.
Overtightening your nuts does not make it more secure but less so as the elasticity is gone and any extra force (from hard cornering or braking) only stretches and loosens the assembly even more.


At home I always use a torque wrench when changing wheels and in the garage / tyre place I make a nuisance of myself by telling them the correct torque I want my wheels fitted at more than just once

emeldc

emeldc wrote: »

Everyone should have something like this in the boot.
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/wheel-brace/products/1868893/wheel-master-wrench-17-19-21-23mm?gclid=CjwKCAjwtNf6BRAwEiwAkt6UQvyFwepSXPG-C_YCzFANVhw7bXOfFoiAcw6sxZz7fnp6xspJMNYu4RoCjMcQAvD_BwE

listermint wrote: »

They won't help I bent one completely on mine .

Have to agree with lister - bought one from a local motor factors, think it was €25 or something, got three goes out of it. Brother bought one from a different motor factors and his bent on the first use. :rolleyes:


Nowadays I just use the X shaped one, that comes with the car. If having difficulty, I do the delicate wheel brace dance, where you hold onto the far side, with one hand on the car for balance, and stand on the near side, so try and jump around on it and get it off that way... usually works (but I'm heavy, so...).

Hoboo

Hoboo wrote: »

I haven't changed a tyre in 18 years, insurance breakdown does that

I wouldn't be able for that. Changing a wheel is about what, 10 minutes? 5 if you're motivated.


Wouldn't have the patience in me to sit waiting on a van to appear to do it.

newmember2

mickdw wrote: »

Anti seize between the wheel and hub. Dont put it on the threads

I thought nothing was to interfere with the bond between wheel and hub?

Del2005

emeldc wrote: »

Everyone should have something like this in the boot.
https://www.micksgarage.com/d/wheel-brace/products/1868893/wheel-master-wrench-17-19-21-23mm?gclid=CjwKCAjwtNf6BRAwEiwAkt6UQvyFwepSXPG-C_YCzFANVhw7bXOfFoiAcw6sxZz7fnp6xspJMNYu4RoCjMcQAvD_BwE

One of these is easier.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07YY2MRL5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fab_37izFb3HKAPP3

pudzey101

Del2005 wrote: »

One of these is easier.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07YY2MRL5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fab_37izFb3HKAPP3

Local tyre shops impact gun wouldn't get one of the lugs off. He said hell either crack the nut or thread my bolts.

All OK anyway now. Had all 4 wheels off and anti seized etc.

Whoever owned the car before me must have been in one of them strongman competitions haha

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

One of these is easier.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07YY2MRL5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fab_37izFb3HKAPP3

That looks interesting. Can't say I've ever seen one of those before (That can be run off the 12v socket). Would be very handy.


Anyone here ever used one? If it works as it should, it'd be a great addition to my box of "ah for fcuk sake" stuff I have in my boot.

mk7r

newmember? wrote: »

I thought nothing was to interfere with the bond between wheel and hub?

You are correct, no antisieze between wheel and hub, it's a common mistake.

Calahonda52

peasant wrote: »

and again...boring me...:D
.
Overtightening your nuts does not make it more secure

Far from boring

newmember2

pudzey101 wrote: »

Hi currently with insure my van commercial insurance. Wheel is flat as anything due to a nail in it. Can anyone with them before provide me with info if they will tow me to a local tyre place etc.

Any help appreciated. Its just van is parked outside a customers house and am eiger to get removed. Tried changing the spare week but wheel brace snapped so them lug nuts are very well stuck on.

Were you trying to Do It Yourself ? :pac: