Employer withdrawing sick pay in breach of own policy

Durtburd

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s1ippy

I think all along you would have been entitled to this payment:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/covid19_enhanced_illness_benefit.html

antix80

It sounds like you were taking the p155 a bit. I know you didn't mean to and the whole covid situation has driven some people to distraction.

I'd advise you to take your unpaid leave and hopefully you'll have a job at the end of it.

Buy a desk and a chair. Working from home is one thing but working from bed isn't a thing.

Hoboo

Durtburd wrote: »

I work for a very large and profitable financial services company.

My employers sick pay policy states that I'm entitled to up to 26 weeks of sick pay. Its at the company's discretion and lists some scenarios where they may withdraw it e.g. failure to follow procedures around medical certs, disciplinary issues, refusing to deal with the company's doctor etc.

I have been off work twice previously due to having to get covid tests. The first time I was out for a while as it took ages to get results and then someone i lived with had to be tested and my employers didn't want me to come back to the office. It totalled approx 7 weeks.
2nd time was only for a week. I had no laptop from work so was unable to work from home.

I have now been off work again for another 2 weeks as I have had to idolate as I unknowingly had contact with a confirmed case. I have been working in violation of health and safety rules during this time ad I dont have anywhere appropriate to work due to my living situation - I've been using my work laptop on my bed and taking regular breaks, despite this my back is knackered from hunching over.

I've now been asked by the hse to isolate for a further 2 weeks again making it total 4 weeks. My employers have said I now have to use up holidays or go unpaid.

I have a document the company issued where they stated unequivocally that they will not reduce anyones pay because they're unable to perform their job as a result of covid. Their jobs and pay will not be at risk. Those who are self isolating will continue to be paid.

I'm supposed to have a phone call with HR on Monday about this and don't know what to do. Will i have any recourse if they refuse to change their stance and insist I go on holidays or else unpaid leave?

To add to your woes you're about to receive a few pages of unqualified rubbish.

Your edit seems to support their viewpoint, also, you stated in the first paragraph that sick pay is at their discretion, the list of exemptions presumably is not exhaustive.

IAMAMORON

Hang tough OP.

But I find that profitable IFS co's will not hang around when it comes to weeding out any pisstakers.

Bring that document that you previously misinterpreted to that HR meeting on Monday and try your best to seem competent.

Good luck.

antix80

Bit of a story..
My colleague is awful. She was employed less than 6 months and didnt qualify for sick pay. When the lockdown was announced the company decided to pay all staff forced to self-isolate. She was so excited and announced "does this mean I'll get paid when i take sick leave"
The following day she went home sick during lunch.
The next day she texted a junior administrator to say she was going to self isolate for 2 weeks. (her mgr was on AL)
The next day her manager called her to see what was going on. My colleague hadn't called the doctor and thought she was going to have a 2 week paid holiday!

Her manager got a laptop couriered to her and told her to get a cert if she was sick.

Anyway.. Some parallels to your case. What you think is reasonable, your employer does not. Also you can lose your job for absenses.

antix80

Hoboo wrote: »

To add to your woes you're about to receive a few pages of unqualified rubbish.

He started it!

antix80

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Hang tough OP.

But I find that profitable IFS co's will not hang around when it comes to weeding out any pisstakers.

Bring that document that you previously misinterpreted to that HR meeting on Monday and try your best to seem competent.

Good luck.

Harsh!

JamBur

I would agree with previous posters. Your post reeks of malingering. Sorry if I'm wrong, but that's the way it comes across.

There is an element in every company who have taken advantage of these uncertain times.

LegacyUser

I dont understand, you have the ability to work from home but you are deciding to not work while isolating at home?

Is that it?

IAMAMORON

Durtburd wrote: »

I have been with the company for a few years, excellent performance throughout. I have been certified by my GP every time I've had to isolate. For the first period I only had to isolate for 2 weeks, after that it was the companys decision for me to stay home while my housemate waited for test results.

This time the public health doctor in HSE is insisting on the isolation period.

I can see how it could look like I am taking the piss, but I am not.

Are you making them much wedge at the moment?

IAMAMORON

Durtburd wrote: »

Yes, about 8x my salary on average each year

Good luck.

whippet

Working from your bed is your problem ... I’m sure there is a chair in your living quarters ... work from home .. be productive and once you are showing that you are trying to be as productive as possible most employers will understand

lawred2

jaysus - the HSE told you this and that my hole

lawred2

Durtburd wrote: »

Work hadnt given me a laptop until about a month ago.

I'm in a house share so had to isolate away from housemates, one of them in particular is absolutely freaking out over corona and I'm getting a lot of hassle over being in quarantine in the house. I cant go to my parents as they are both high risk. My living situation is sh1t, my bedroom is small and my partner is in the room with me isolating too. There was nowhere else I could work. Its a sh1t set of circumstances. I've done my best considering.

work didn't "give me" a laptop either

But I did buy one as it's expected of me to be able to work remotely if I have to be remote.

IAMAMORON

Durtburd wrote: »

Work hadnt given me a laptop until about a month ago.



I'm in a house share so had to isolate away from housemates, one of them in particular is absolutely freaking out over corona and I'm getting a lot of hassle over being in quarantine in the house. I cant go to my parents as they are both high risk. My living situation is sh1t, my bedroom is small and my partner is in the room with me isolating too. There was nowhere else I could work. Its a sh1t set of circumstances. I've done my best considering.

My last piece if advice is not mention any of this to HR on Monday. The last thing you need is the see their fake smiles change to jaw drops and uncontrolled sniggering, how embarrassing.

They know exactly the time and date that they gave you the Lap Top.

Jim Root

Why should you be paid if you’ve contributing nothing over those 7 weeks? That’s a lot of time.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Your employer is definitely curious as to why you've have to take so much time off due to Covid related issues. I suspect they are just dotting the I's and crossing the T's with them arranging the meeting with HR. Once you have everything in order such as any required proof or certs for the leave you'll be fine.

Just be professional, not over defensive from the start (they are just doing their jobs) and I wouldn't bother going into too much detail regarding your home setup.

Just tell them you'll make the organisation 9 times your salary once things calm down. That should cover your lengthy absence period.

antix80

Louise Loose Beam wrote: »

Just be professional, not over defensive from the start (they are just doing their jobs) and I wouldn't bother going into too much detail regarding your home setup.

This is good advice. You can be certain HR and management did their homework before deciding on annual leave or unpaid leave.

Maybe concerns around productivity given feedback from coworkers or from monitoring network traffic.

Possibly 12 weeks out of the office during which time the op didn't take annual leave and is coming to the end of the year with 4 weeks left to take.... That could be another consideration! (one for op to answer)

As for a home setup.. Complaining about that is what I'd describe as ruining WFH for everyone.

nthclare

The general consensus is to go back to work, be lucky to have a job and don't rock the boat.

I know people who were on 6 figure salaries before covid 19 and they're packing shelves and working on tills in supermarkets now.
And they're quite happy to be doing something, it show's they're adaptable and flexible.

Any job these days is a blessing.

Imagine being an airline pilot with a huge Mortgage, big house stables and a wife 3 kids, two dog's and 4 horse's to look after.

And two big cars in the driveway, it's then you've problems.

Wishing you well on Monday and just go in and make the most of it, play along with company policy even if it's sh17 just do it.

Because you're worth it....

lawred2

nthclare wrote: »

The general consensus is to go back to work, be lucky to have a job and don't rock the boat.

I know people who were on 6 figure salaries before covid 19 and they're packing shelves and working on tills in supermarkets now.
And they're quite happy to be doing something, it show's they're adaptable and flexible.

Any job these days is a blessing.

Imagine being an airline pilot with a huge Mortgage, big house stables and a wife 3 kids, two dog's and 4 horse's to look after.

And two big cars in the driveway, it's then you've problems.

Wishing you well on Monday and just go in and make the most of it, play along with company policy even if it's sh17 just do it.

Because you're worth it....

Why would someone who was earning six figures now be happy working a till?

Hmmmm

antix80

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would someone who was earning six figures now be happy working a till?

Hmmmm

That's just a bit of happy claptrap. As if any of that's true.

nthclare

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would someone who was earning six figures now be happy working a till?

Hmmmm

Because they're better off working than being on the scribble.

Happiness is an inside job, it's not up to you to decide people's level of contentment, happiness or decisions.

People's career's have been devastated by the lockdown and restrictions.

You can hmmmm away now for all I care and sulk.
But that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

It's not exactly sunshine lollipops and rainbows for everyone at the moment cupcakes....

ebbsy

2 covid tests...choose your buddies more carefully Id say.

nthclare

antix80 wrote: »

That's just a bit of happy claptrap. As if any of that's true.

So what do people who were on really good wages and have responsibility do during a pandemic which obliterated their earning potential ?

Go out and find a job in the same area again ?

You tell me how a person who ran a successful tourism business, flew a plane or owned a nightclub or had a fleet of coaches on the road is going to match that at the moment.

When that's their primary purpose for year's, a lot of successful business owners have wage's overheads and in a lot of cases break even at the end of the year.

People like to work, just because they're worth so much on paper doesn't mean they're cash cow's.

When you're around a while and know about economics and business you'll be more understanding and empathic.

Having reread your op, I’m struggling to see why your employer was paying you while isolating, isn’t that what the pandemic payment is for? In reality, you are not sick nor on sick leave, so it is certainly debatable whether sick pay would apply, especially in light of their policy on pay when isolating, but not unwell. The timeframes here seem to be inordinately long, quarantine/self isolation is only 2 weeks, it’s hard to see why you needed 7 weeks.

antix80

nthclare wrote: »

Because they're better off working than being on the scribble.

Happiness is an inside job, it's not up to you to decide people's level of contentment, happiness or decisions.

People's career's have been devastated by the lockdown and restrictions.

You can hmmmm away now for all I care and sulk.
But that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

It's not exactly sunshine lollipops and rainbows for everyone at the moment cupcakes....

You've been reading too many self help blogs.

Anyone i know on 6 figures, and granted it's not too many (my own income is 6 figures if you include a decimal space) but they're all employed and busier than ever.

But you apparently know many people who lost 6 figure jobs during covid, shunned the covid wage, and immediately found work and happiness stacking shelves while wearing a facemask. Pull the other one.

nthclare

antix80 wrote: »

You've been reading too many self help blogs.

Anyone i know on 6 figures, and granted it's not too many (my own income is 6 figures if you include a decimal space) but they're all employed and busier than ever.

But you apparently know many people who lost 6 figure jobs during covid, shunned the covid wage, and immediately found work and happiness stacking shelves while wearing a facemask. Pull the other one.

You can hum and haw all you like, but are you suggesting that people are better off on the 350 and doing nothing ?

Some people are just able to dust themselves off and get on with it.

Different strokes for different folk's.

Not everyone wants to rot away at home on the covid payment and screw the system.

There's some work out there for delivery drivers at the moment, go figure....

JustAThought

Lets hope the OP dosn’t lose the run if himself at his HR meeting and tell them he was self isolating in bed with girlfriend while crouching over in bed ‘working’ and has hurt his back now and wants his sickpay. If he can’t smell the self entitlement himself and curb his words he will be in big trouble soon. You won’t be needing a crystal ball to see a P45 looming.

nthclare

JustAThought wrote: »

Lets hope the OP dosn’t lose the run if himself at his HR meeting and tell them he was self isolating in bed with girlfriend while crouching over in bed ‘working’ and has hurt his back now and wants his sickpay. If he can’t smell the self entitlement himself and curb his words he will be in big trouble soon. You won’t be needing a crystal ball to see a P45 looming.

Absolutely, the best way to get on ok is to leave the fragile ego at the door of the HR office and pass it out on the way out the door.

HR are far too clever these days for fanciful stories and being dictated to.
Best thing to do now is sell themselves again and find a nice quiet corner and get on with their work.

antix80

JustAThought wrote: »

Lets hope the OP dosn’t lose the run if himself at his HR meeting and tell them he was self isolating in bed with girlfriend while crouching over in bed ‘working’ and has hurt his back now and wants his sickpay.

Wait til HR tell him they activated the work laptop's webcam and found out how he really put his back out.

nthclare

nthclare wrote: »

The general consensus is to go back to work, be lucky to have a job and don't rock the boat.

I know people who were on 6 figure salaries before covid 19 and they're packing shelves and working on tills in supermarkets now.
And they're quite happy to be doing something, it show's they're adaptable and flexible.

Any job these days is a blessing.

Imagine being an airline pilot with a huge Mortgage, big house stables and a wife 3 kids, two dog's and 4 horse's to look after.

And two big cars in the driveway, it's then you've problems.

Wishing you well on Monday and just go in and make the most of it, play along with company policy even if it's sh17 just do it.

Because you're worth it....

Very true. The guy that can only afford a bedside and a bus pass should certainly feel sorry for the guy you mentioned.

nthclare

antix80 wrote: »

Wait til HR tell him they activated the work laptop's webcam and found out how he really put his back out.

lol very good.
I love that humour lol

Maybe they're in the wrong business , very sharp wit

Love it

Durtburd

Durtburd wrote: »

Thats a decision they've made. When we the staff complain about poor pay or other issues we constantly get the spiel about how the company looks after employees in other ways, such as this.

The 1st period was 7 weeks as it took hse 3 weeks to test me and deliver results. Housemate got very sick during that time, chest pains, breathing trouble, whole shebang. He was sent for testing and it took them about 5 weeks start to finish. Work decided they'd rather I stay at home until he got all clear.



Can you explain the grounds on which you think I could/would be dismissed?

I work for an insurance company, they are well practised at pointing out health and safety issues - they themselves stated that I shouldn't be working the way I am, I decided to do it anyway as its better than nothing.

But the Government introduced PUP specifically for situations like this where you were off work, but not ill. Also, the guidelines are that you isolate for two weeks, if no symptoms, you go about your business. Your company has a policy for this situation, you included it in your first post edit, that policy is broadly in line with what the Government expected employers to do during the pandemic.

Many employers are cutting back staff numbers as a result of Covid. Like others, I think you should put your case across calmly, and leave out the bit about your back/bed.

AndrewJRenko

antix80 wrote: »

Buy a desk and a chair. Working from home is one thing but working from bed isn't a thing.

Why would employees be buying office equipment for their employers? The very least that an employer can do is make sure that people have the right equpment to do the job. If people are basically forced into working from home, then the employer should be making sure they have the right equipment.

I know one bank and one tech company that have covered basic home office set up costs. Public service is not covering any costs, so you have tens of thousands of public servants fitting out their own offices at their own expense.

Strumms

nthclare wrote: »

You can hum and haw all you like, but are you suggesting that people are better off on the 350 and doing nothing ?

Some people are just able to dust themselves off and get on with it.

Different strokes for different folk's.

Not everyone wants to rot away at home on the covid payment and screw the system.

There's some work out there for delivery drivers at the moment, go figure....

people aren’t screwing anything. They are simply benefiting from a system that they themselves paid into and contributed to. Now when they are in need during unprecedented times they are getting a dig out and remaining safe. Also they are enabling the health, safety and wellbeing of everyone else in their community.

IAMAMORON

I get the distinct impression we are never going to hear how this HR meeting panned out.

Talk about making snowballs for someone else to throw around...

Cheeky enough.