Garda apologizing to company in HSE Ventilator case

BearsyBoo

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-hq-corrects-claim-about-7-5m-hse-ventilator-deal-1.4345073


I've been following this story for a while, the HSE signed a contract with this crowd for 7.5 million on a Friday and said they would pay on the Monday, they subsequently fail to pay. (Yes that's right 7.5 million of tax payers money just like that)

The crowd they fail to pay then takes them to court, to try get out of this the HSE claim fraud and the guards make a statement.

Now the guards have to publicly apologize to this company, all extremely strange.

It seems like the HSE are going to great extents to hide how they spent/mis spent tax payer money at this time.

I believe they spent a billion in two weeks, surely we need some sort of investigation in to how this money was spent

Sleeper12

BearsyBoo wrote:

I believe they spent a billion in two weeks, surely we need some sort of investigation in to how this money was spent

Investigation into the hundreds of needles Covid-19 deaths in the nursing homes should take priority impl

BearsyBoo

BearsyBoo wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-hq-corrects-claim-about-7-5m-hse-ventilator-deal-1.4345073


I've been following this story for a while, the HSE signed a contract with this crowd for 7.5 million on a Friday and said they would pay on the Monday, they subsequently fail to pay. (Yes that's right 7.5 million of tax payers money just like that)

The crowd they fail to pay then takes them to court, to try get out of this the HSE claim fraud and the guards make a statement.

Now the guards have to publicly apologize to this company, all extremely strange.

It seems like the HSE are going to great extents to hide how they spent/mis spent tax payer money at this time.

I believe they spent a billion in two weeks, surely we need some sort of investigation in to how this money was spent

I am fully confident when I say this.

If this happened in the U.K., it would get ten times more attention in the Irish media and people would be demanding the government be held to account for it.

This will get covered up by the HSE and the government will not be expected to comment on it, because the Irish media is too afraid of upsetting them.

duffman13

Plenty of panic buying going on in March and April. PPE costs were crazy during this time but a few of those deals need investigating too

ohnonotgmail

Aegir wrote: »

I am fully confident when I say this.

If this happened in the U.K., it would get ten times more attention in the Irish media and people would be demanding the government be held to account for it.

This will get covered up by the HSE and the government will not be expected to comment on it, because the Irish media is too afraid of upsetting them.

you clearly haven't been paying attention to what is happening in the UK. they have spaffed millions on PPE that wasnt fit for purpose and there were no repercussions for anybody involved. they spent 100's of millions on a track and trace system that doesn't work. The UK doesn't do accountability any more.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you clearly haven't been paying attention to what is happening in the UK. they have spaffed millions on PPE that wasnt fit for purpose and there were no repercussions for anybody involved. they spent 100's of millions on a track and trace system that doesn't work. The UK doesn't do accountability any more.

And there we are. A quick attempt to deflect and shout “over there”. There is a separate thread for the U.K. response, as you are well aware.

I would imagine the directors of Narooma medical are now fearful of a file being opened to investigate alleged child abuse, or whatever the civil service do to make annoying problems go away.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Aegir wrote: »

I am fully confident when I say this.

If this happened in the U.K., it would get ten times more attention in the Irish media and people would be demanding the government be held to account for it.

This will get covered up by the HSE and the government will not be expected to comment on it, because the Irish media is too afraid of upsetting them.

Aegir wrote: »

And there we are. A quick attempt to deflect and shout “over there”. There is a separate thread for the U.K. response, as you are well aware.

I would imagine the directors of Narooma medical are now fearful of a file being opened to investigate alleged child abuse, or whatever the civil service do to make annoying problems go away.

uh, you're the one who brought the UK into it?

ohnonotgmail

Aegir wrote: »

And there we are. A quick attempt to deflect and shout “over there”. There is a separate thread for the U.K. response, as you are well aware.

I would imagine the directors of Narooma medical are now fearful of a file being opened to investigate alleged child abuse, or whatever the civil service do to make annoying problems go away.

i was responding to your comment. you brought it up.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Aegir wrote: »

And there we are. A quick attempt to deflect and shout “over there”. There is a separate thread for the U.K. response, as you are well aware.

I would suggest that you should go and read the other post in this thread about the UK by none other than your good self...

Ivy Unkempt Stimulation

Ivy Unkempt Stimulation wrote: »

I would suggest that you should go and read the other post in this thread about the UK by none other than your good self...

I would suggest you go back and read my post more carefully.

My comment was about the Irish media,

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i was responding to your comment. you brought it up.

my comment about the Irish media? no, you were not.

ohnonotgmail

Aegir wrote: »

my comment about the Irish media? no, you were not.

it seems i misread your comment. apologies.

to answer your comment it would get little or no attention here. both of the things i mentioned have received little or no attention here and they are much bigger financially than this mistake by the HSE. the UK is so much of a ****show at the moment it is impossible for attention to be given to all of it.

If this happened in the U.K., it would get ten times more attention in the Irish media and people would be demanding the government be held to account for it.

Mr. CooL ICE

Aegir wrote: »

I am fully confident when I say this.

If this happened in the U.K., it would get ten times more attention in the Irish media and people would be demanding the government be held to account for it.

This will get covered up by the HSE and the government will not be expected to comment on it, because the Irish media is too afraid of upsetting them.

You're talking out of your hole and/or just don't follow Irish media. New children's hospital cost overrun? Cervical check scandal? These were massive, massive headline news issues in the Irish media for a long, long time. Far more attention was paid to these issues in Irish media than any stunt the UK government pulled in UK media.

Simple as this. You made this comment because you're being bitter as other posters have torn apart the UK government's and media's actions in a thread elsewhere and you have no answer for it.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mr. CooL ICE wrote: »

You're talking out of your hole and/or just don't follow Irish media. New children's hospital cost overrun? Cervical check scandal? These were massive, massive headline news issues in the Irish media for a long, long time. Far more attention was paid to these issues in Irish media than any stunt the UK government pulled in UK media.

Simple as this. You made this comment because you're being bitter as other posters have torn apart the UK government's and media's actions in a thread elsewhere and you have no answer for it.

I made the comment because it is true.

The Irish media would much rather shout “over there” and point at the U.K. (or US) government than carry out any sort of investigation in to events here.

As you mention the cervical cancer and children’s hospital fiascos, what was the outcome? Who was held to account?

odyssey06

Aegir wrote: »

I made the comment because it is true.

The Irish media would much rather shout “over there” and point at the U.K. (or US) government than carry out any sort of investigation in to events here.

As you mention the cervical cancer and children’s hospital fiascos, what was the outcome? Who was held to account?

I think our media is far too focused on what is happening in the US.

But there was huge media coverage in print and TV of the cervical cancer scandal.
You'll have to explain what further steps the 'media' could be expected to have done, that would have been legal, and would have achieved such outcomes?

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think our media is far too focused on what is happening in the US.

But there was huge media coverage in print and TV of the cervical cancer scandal.
You'll have to explain what further steps the 'media' could be expected to have done, that would have been legal, and would have achieved such outcomes?

Making sure some was held to account for starters.

Fionn1952

Aegir wrote: »

Making sure some was held to account for starters.

How exactly do you propose the media hold anyone to account beyond reporting on it, which we're all in agreement that they did?

Mr. CooL ICE

Aegir wrote: »

As you mention the cervical cancer and children’s hospital fiascos, what was the outcome? Who was held to account?

Stop shifting the goalposts. You were talking about Irish media coverage and not any inquests or tribunals.

duffman13

duffman13 wrote: »

Plenty if panic buying going on in March and April. PPE costs were crazy during this time but a few of those deals need investigating too

I was talking to a civil servant relation recently who said they were told to go get the ventilators and PPE by hook or by crook. There was pressure and panic and countries were bidding against one another in China for the material.

With hindsight it inevitable crap deals were done.

BearsyBoo

The actual apology printed in the Irish times, how did the guards manage to make such a “blunder” or was it the HSE?

Topgear on Dave

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I was talking to a civil servant relation recently who said they were told to go get the ventilators and PPE by hook or by crook. There was pressure and panic and countries were bidding against one another in China for the material.

With hindsight it inevitable crap deals were done.

The HSE paying over the top, or buying too many is entirely understandable in my opinion.

signing a contract, not honouring it and then using AGS to smear an otherwise decent company is something that needs to be investigated, but it won't be.

Fionn1952

Fionn1952 wrote: »

How exactly do you propose the media hold anyone to account beyond reporting on it, which we're all in agreement that they did?

Reporting on something would mean printing that the promised cost effective childrens hospital was now costing over €1bn more than budgeted.

Holding them to account would mean asking why the IMF reported flaws in the government procurement process were not addressed, in fact the government lied about the IMF report claiming that the IMF "found a generally good standard of public investment management in Ireland"

Who was it that ignored these flaws, why did they ignore them and who was it that decided to lie about the findings?

someone needs to be held accountable and this is where we need a good press. They pick up on these things and let them go too easily.

BearsyBoo

Aegir wrote: »

The HSE paying over the top, or buying too many is entirely understandable in my opinion.

signing a contract, not honouring it and then using AGS to smear an otherwise decent company is something that needs to be investigated, but it won't be.

This is the scary part that takes it to the realm of strangeness

BrianD3

The whole thing sounds very strange but if you know how at least some parts of the public sector operate, it may not be so surprising. It could simply be a case of someone senior in the HSE knowing someone senior in the Gardai with both organisations having an ass covering, bullying culture and an attitude of "private sector bad".

That's only when it suits of course - when they are trying to avoid employing staff to do work in house it's "private sector good". Outsource work, sign a contract, and if it turns out that someone senior has signed an unfavourable contract, revert to the previous position, delay payment, try to wriggle out of the contract etc. Knowing that, is it that much of a leap to think that the HSE would try to use the Gardai to get at a supplier?

BearsyBoo

Article in today’s Sunday times, seems like the IDA has involvement too

Dublin ventilator importer Narooma ‘cut out of state deal’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublin-ventilator-importer-narooma-cut-out-of-state-deal-xqx88fzsm

BearsyBoo

Seems like there’s an awful lot more to this story, Incompetent government agencies trying to bully the little guy

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/ida-faces-legal-action-over-ventilator-contract-1.4443114

James Brown

Is this related to the company consisting of one Irish man who organises music gigs in the middle east, getting a massive state contract to import ventilators from China that turned out to be not fit for purpose?

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you clearly haven't been paying attention to what is happening in the UK. they have spaffed millions on PPE that wasnt fit for purpose and there were no repercussions for anybody involved. they spent 100's of millions on a track and trace system that doesn't work. The UK doesn't do accountability any more.

Very interesting that nobody has pointed out the irony that Ireland, in fact, paid millions of euro for defective and unsuitable PPE.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-hse-says-20-of-delivered-protective-equipment-is-unsuitable-1.4221278

Our track & trace system has come in for tremendous criticism from scientists, too – it's so woeful that it's equipping the publicans and restauranteurs with a cogent (but unlikely) claim that their establishments are causing near-zero transmission.

This will not be investigated. All criticism is rapidly ignored.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Very interesting that nobody has pointed out the irony that Ireland, in fact, paid millions of euro for defective and unsuitable PPE.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-hse-says-20-of-delivered-protective-equipment-is-unsuitable-1.4221278

Our track & trace system has come in for tremendous criticism from scientists, too – it's so woeful that it's equipping the publicans and restauranteurs with a cogent (but unlikely) claim that their establishments are causing near-zero transmission.

This will not be investigated. All criticism is rapidly ignored.

Indeed there was a Panorama program about how the UK (& our own situation could be extrapolated from this) about how the UK should have been already prepared for an "overdue" pandemic. Experts had advised that there should be plentiful stocks of non-perishable quality PPE available at the first signs of one. Of course there were no votes in being prepared for a pandemic.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

Is this related to the company consisting of one Irish man who organises music gigs in the middle east, getting a massive state contract to import ventilators from China that turned out to be not fit for purpose?

No, I think that is separate. The company youre referring to is called Roqu Media International Ltd. The HSE paid them €14 million for ventilators that haven't been used yet, due to issues with the quality. The company had no previous trading history previous to the HSE ventilator deal.

Link: --> https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191468.html

Know a lad that made high 6 figures Del Boy style flogging PPE to the HSE. No previous experience in the area.

Missed opportunity for a lot of us. A few handy mortgages paid off.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

No, I think that is separate. The company youre referring to is called Roqu Media International Ltd. The HSE paid them €14 million for ventilators that haven't been used yet, due to issues with the quality. The company had no previous trading history previous to the HSE ventilator deal.

Link: --> https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191468.html

jesus that is just massive incompetency. Its one thing to be desperate for ventilators but quite another thing to be paying 14 million of cash up front and then ending up with just 72 ventilators that dont work despite 200 being on the contract. Do these people not know how to write a procurement contract that stipulates what is supplied has to actually work? And not one single head will roll over it either.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

jesus that is just massive incompetency. Its one thing to be desperate for ventilators but quite another thing to be paying 14 million of cash up front and then ending up with just 72 ventilators that dont work despite 200 being on the contract. Do these people not know how to write a procurement contract that stipulates what is supplied has to actually work? And not one single head will roll over it either.

The question that has to be asked is why did an Irish company that organises music festivals in the Middle East get a €14 million contract to import ventilators for the HSE. Why wasn't a company with a medical background selected instead?

If I need parts for a jumbo jet, Im not going to ask Louis Walsh to source them for me.

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

The question that has to be asked is why did an Irish company that organises music festivals in the Middle East get a €14 million contract to import ventilators for the HSE. Why wasn't a company with a medical background selected instead?

If I need parts for a jumbo jet, Im not going to ask Louis Walsh to source them for me.

yeah its bizarre stuff, I mean did they do any due diligence at all? A simple search of the company would have told them that they are a music promoter with absolutely nothing to do with medical equipment. Can you just imagine the conversation between HSE employees when they discovered this 'ah yeah sure it will be grand' :rolleyes:

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The question that has to be asked is why did an Irish company that organises music festivals in the Middle East get a €14 million contract to import ventilators for the HSE. Why wasn't a company with a medical background selected instead?

If I need parts for a jumbo jet, Im not going to ask Louis Walsh to source them for me.

The man behind that company is also the individual behind the "world's first health passport "

skimpydoo

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The man behind that company is also the individual behind the "world's first health passport "

He is also an ex IDA director, which is why he was chosen.

deandean

From my reading of articles, that company was chosen because of their expertise in logistics and not their expertise in medical equipment. By all accounts they handled the logistics quite well, i.e. they got the stuff from the point of origin into the country.

Muahahaha

No point getting the logistics right if what youre buying is unusable and a waste of 14 million quid

James Brown

deandean wrote: »

From my reading of articles, that company was chosen because of their expertise in logistics and not their expertise in medical equipment. By all accounts they handled the logistics quite well, i.e. they got the stuff from the point of origin into the country.

So from 'do we not have medical supply importers?' to 'do we not have importers?', makes it even worse IMO. However if he's ex IDA, likely a nice earner and who ever threw him the contract made on it too.

Apparently they didn't get the logistics right. From the main article:

In an invitation to the media to attend the arrival of the "fourth and final" delivery into Shannon on April 25, Roqu said that 100 ventilators had already arrived into Ireland, with a further 100 due on the impending flight.

That transport was eventually cancelled "due to technical difficulties with the flight", according to Roqu.

At the time of the contract, Roqu Media International Limited had current assets of just €122 and no trading history, per its 2018 accounts.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191468.html

James Brown

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Apparently they didn't get the logistics right. From the main article:


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40191468.html

Totally crony con. It should be investigated. People should be sacked.

deandean

I stand corrected ��

Masks deal fell through when Heroes Aid learned Irish media company was middleman.

A deal to bring 150,000 masks to Ireland from China foundered after a fundraising group discovered that the €108,000 bill was payable to Irish festival management company Roqu Media International rather than a Chinese wholesaler.

Roqu, a company paid €14.1 million by the HSE to import ventilators from China, had offered masks to Covid fundraisers Heroes Aid at a cost of €0.72 per unit.

Heroes Aid, a group led by Co Galway public health nurse and former city councillor **** *****, had liaised with Mr. ******, a Cork native with knowledge of Chinese supply lines and markets, to bring the Type II R surgical masks to Ireland in mid-April.

The group had initially worked with Conor McGregor to distribute €1.5 million in Personal Protective Equipment [PPE] that the MMA fighter had purchased to Irish hospitals in April 2020, at a time of a global PPE shortage.

Some €200,000 was subsequently received by the group via fundraising and direct donations, which led to its contact with Roqu via Mr ******.

However, when an invoice was requested from Mr ****** by Heroes Aid volunteer **** ******, he responded with a document payable to Irish-based Roqu.

“Every invoice I’d seen up to this point had been coming from the factory in China,” Mr Leddin said. “Why would we pay an Irish company we’d never heard of €100,000 of money donated by the public?”

Mr ****** did not respond to the Irish Examiner's request for comment.

Link: -->https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40200264.html

deandean

deandean wrote: »

From my reading of articles, that company was chosen because of their expertise in logistics and not their expertise in medical equipment. By all accounts they handled the logistics quite well, i.e. they got the stuff from the point of origin into the country.

We're not exactly in the era of Vasco de Gama, plenty of companies are capable of getting complicated machinery here. It must be a common occurrence.

Sounds like panic buying. Can somewhat understand that, but why not use a trusted source? There has to be a reason the experienced guys couldn't source the stuff.