BMW R 1150 GS

Detritus70

Yes, I am a complete fool and have privately bought myself one of those.
It's a '99, with 90000 km on the clock.
The bike is mostly in good order, but I am noticing a certain rough feel when driving along, this does not seem to come from the engine (engine runs and revs freely), it feels more gearbox/final drive like.
It's a bit as if gears are worn, don't mesh properly and seem to feel a bit rough when I'm driving along. Bit like sitting on a coffee grinder.
When I pull the clutch, driving feels a lot smoother.
If anyone had any troubleshooting hints, they would be appreciated.

CorkBlackbird

Detritus70 wrote: »

Yes, I am a complete fool and have privately bought myself one of those.
It's a '99, with 90000 km on the clock.
The bike is mostly in good order, but I am noticing a certain rough feel when driving along, this does not seem to come from the engine (engine runs and revs freely), it feels more gearbox/final drive like.
It's a bit as if gears are worn, don't mesh properly and seem to feel a bit rough when I'm driving along. Bit like sitting on a coffee grinder.
When I pull the clutch, driving feels a lot smoother.
If anyone had any troubleshooting hints, they would be appreciated.

Try replacing Final Drive oil and see if that smoothes out the ride.

Worst comes to the worst replacing the final drive with a used one in good condition.. plenty on eBay for less than €200

rustynutz

The final drive is a known weak point on BMW GS's, if it is prepare to have your wallet opened. Try the oil first as mentioned above

Detritus70

Thanks, it seems the logical starting point.
This thread could go on a bit, this bike does need some TLC and I'm a sucker for neglected beauties.

rustynutz

Detritus70 wrote: »

Thanks, it seems the logical starting point.
This thread could go on a bit, this bike does need some TLC and I'm a sucker for neglected beauties.

If it came at the right money then it should be a fun project, I'm more into older sportsbikes myself but can definitely see the attraction with buying bikes that need work

Detritus70

rustynutz wrote: »

If it came at the right money then it should be a fun project, I'm more into older sportsbikes myself but can definitely see the attraction with buying bikes that need work

Username is a giveaway.
It cost €3300, but this is in Germany, those old bikes can go for up to €7k here. Ireland may be different.

listermint

Do 99s with final drive issues make that much. Seems high. 7 seems really high

Detritus70

listermint wrote: »

Do 99s with final drive issues make that much. Seems high. 7 seems really high

You'd be amazed how much certain brands/types of cars make in Germany.
This bike was rock bottom for that model here. Cheaper ones are pure rusty sheds. And this one's in decent shape otherwise.
Or even just old bangers.
The difference is insurance. I drive an 18 year old Fiesta (1.6) and it costs me €300 to insure. The bike costs about €150 to insure.
Tax between the two is less than €200.
Because insurances in Germany don't wage war on cars based on age and because payout for whiplash is a fraction of the payout in Ireland, insurance is affordable.
For example, payout for whiplash in Ireland is between €12000 to €15000 for non serious cases with no lasting damage.
In Germany you'd get about €600 for the same injury. Because suing for a few hundred is not financially viable, whiplash is not anywhere near as prevalent here.

Lyle Lanley

rustynutz wrote: »

The final drive is a known weak point on BMW GS's, if it is prepare to have your wallet opened. Try the oil first as mentioned above

It's lasted over 20 years and 90k Kms. Not sure that counts as a weak point!

Detritus70

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

It's lasted over 20 years and 90k Kms. Not sure that counts as a weak point!

They do have the odd issue, but nothing too bad.
This is something I have planned for next year. For now the bike runs and drives, so this is just the preliminary research.
I do love my Q.
(Q in German is pronounced the same as Kuh, meaning cow. The older models where called rubber cow )

rustynutz

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

It's lasted over 20 years and 90k Kms. Not sure that counts as a weak point!

How do you know it's on its first replacement? I'd bet its not

Detritus70

rustynutz wrote: »

How do you know it's on its first replacement? I'd bet its not

Not according to the FSH, but the ABS unit was rebuilt.

goblin59

Detritus70 wrote: »

Not according to the FSH, but the ABS unit was rebuilt.

you might be better off just bypassing the ABS on those.

I know on the 2005 R1200GS they're a pain in the hole.

Dad disabled the one on his bike as it was prone to failing for no reason.
It takes the brake assisting servos with it when it fails, so alot of people chose to bypass it in order to keep the servos safe

H_Lime

goblin59 wrote: »

you might be better off just bypassing the ABS on those.

I know on the 2005 R1200GS they're a pain in the hole.

Dad disabled the one on his bike as it was prone to failing for no reason.
It takes the brake assisting servos with it when it fails, so alot of people chose to bypass it in order to keep the servos safe

I don't know enough to speak with any authority on it but there's crazy stories about brake failures out there re this. I'd be inclined to bypass myself.

two wheels good

On your 1150GS model no need to be unduly worried about final drive or ABS.
The notorious problem is servo brakes on 2003-on models due to failure mode with reduced braking. Not so on the earlier non-servo ABS.
Surprised your ABS was "rebuilt". Usually very robust. Does the service history include fluid changes?

The usual FD failure on an 1150 is the crown wheel bearing. A DIY job, ~£80 for bearing, seal, o-ring.
To check FD;
Check for play with weight partially off the wheel. Play can be paralever bearing or FD crown wheel bearing.
Remove caliper or retract pads and listen for rumble in FD bearing when turning by hand.
Change the FD oil. Look for grey colour and metal filings. Any oil leaking from seal don't ride it. Bearing probably already ripping the seal.

But I'm not saying your problem is FD. Many FDs last >80k miles. Some fail early, supposedly due to incorrect shimming.

About your question:
Not enough info to go on really. Easy to confuse an engine needing a tune-up with transmission roughness.
Start with a service, adjust tappets and throttle balance.
Also, change the brake/clutch fluids. Replace original brake hoses if they're still fitted.

Have a look on UKGSer website for all the info you'll ever need.

Detritus70

Two wheels good, thank you for your very excellent advice, I certainly will look into that.
I have to look into the service history, the bike was serviced every year or every 10000 km, so everything should be on the money with fluids.
I don't know why the ABS was rebuilt, but it should not be a point of great worry.
As I said, this is not of any great hurry, the machine sounds and feels quite nice and maybe I am overly paranoid, the only point of comparison I have is a 2003 GS that I rode which seemed to feel smoother, but of course there are differences between those two bikes.
For example, mine has single spark plugs and those apparently have a tiny bit of jerkiness compared to the later twin spark plug models.

I will follow your plan, because it is logical, start with the small things and work your way up.

Lyle Lanley

rustynutz wrote: »

How do you know it's on its first replacement? I'd bet its not

I have a 99 that is still on its first after over 150k.

Detritus70

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

I have a 99 that is still on its first after over 150k.

You're referring to a bike I trust?

cococoady

Bit off topic but also to do with a BMW, this time a 2010 GSA 1200. Although the bike is 10 years old there's only 30,000 km on it. However the last week the brake failure warning light has come on the the ABS is no longer working and the speedo also won't work until after about 5 mins of driving. Any ideas as to what could be causing this? I'm not very technical minded myself now.

zubair

cococoady wrote: »

Bit off topic but also to do with a BMW, this time a 2010 GSA 1200. Although the bike is 10 years old there's only 30,000 km on it. However the last week the brake failure warning light has come on the the ABS is no longer working and the speedo also won't work until after about 5 mins of driving. Any ideas as to what could be causing this? I'm not very technical minded myself now.

Don't think there's much to worry about. ABS sensor is linked to the speedo on many bikes. Getting the code cleared could resolve it but probably the sensor is dirty or has moved. I expect the rear sensor is the one related to the speedo. Give the sensor a wipe and make sure it's seated correctly.

cococoady

zubair wrote: »

Don't think there's much to worry about. ABS sensor is linked to the speedo on many bikes. Getting the code cleared could resolve it but probably the sensor is dirty or has moved. I expect the rear sensor is the one related to the speedo. Give the sensor a wipe and make sure it's seated correctly.

I'm guessing I'll need to take the back wheel off to be able to do this.

listermint

If your not very technical just bring it to an independent motorcycle mechanic.

Sir Galahad

I’m now on my 10th 1150 Adventure. I ride throughout the year and use the bike as my main mode of transport. They are very dependable. I’ve had single spark and dual spark. I’ve had ABS 1 and Servo Assisted ABS. The1150’s were built at a when BMW did the product testing before releasing them to the customer and when most of the bike was not made in China. My latest 1150 is a 2005 SE with 17,000 miles on it. Where is the OP based ? A dependable mechanic the knows BMW helps.

two wheels good

cococoady wrote: »

I'm guessing I'll need to take the back wheel off to be able to do this.

[EDIT] Correction: The ABS sensor is behind the rear wheel. Parts fiche.
Zubair's advice is correct.
Also check for play in final drive. This can upset the sensor gap. But if it's all fine after 5mins riding this is unlikely problem- fortunately!

Also:
Normal service resuming after 5mins makes me think is the battery voltage could be low. Put the battery on charge and see if there's any improvement.
ABS not working could be brushes stuck in ABS unit. Has anyone had a look at it? I don't think it's labour-intensive; cover can be removed with ABS in-situ AFAIK.
Check that brake light switches are working correctly.

Detritus70

Sir Galahad wrote: »

I’m now on my 10th 1150 Adventure. I ride throughout the year and use the bike as my main mode of transport. They are very dependable. I’ve had single spark and dual spark. I’ve had ABS 1 and Servo Assisted ABS. The1150’s were built at a when BMW did the product testing before releasing them to the customer and when most of the bike was not made in China. My latest 1150 is a 2005 SE with 17,000 miles on it. Where is the OP based ? A dependable mechanic the knows BMW helps.

I'm based in Germany. The bike's been going great, next on the list is oil change, new sparks, air filter and check out the oil in the final drive as suggested by two wheels good.
The spark plugs were a bit cruddy and cleaning them up with a wire brush has already improved the way the bike runs, it's already smoother.
The last service entry is 80000 km, it's now at 90000 and maybe that service was skipped, but I shall address this shortly.
So far no need for a mechanic, we'll see as this rolling project progresses.

two wheels good

I found a more convincing explanation for the speedo resuming after 5mins

If the speedo control module finds the signal from the rear sensor is faulty it will switch to using the front sensor signals after a while.
Disconnect the rear sensor from the loom. The control module should switch to the front sensor immediately, or at least more quickly.

Detritus70

Right, parts ordered and on their way.
Sadly I can't order oil online here, well I could, but there's no way to dispose of the old oil afterwards no recycling facility will take it. And the shop is 300km away, it's too far to drive and I can't send oil per mail.
The only way is to buy oil from a shop and they are obligated to take the old oil back. I found a BMW bike shop where I bought four litres of oil for SEVENTY(!!!!) Euro, but they will take the old oil back.
Buying oil online in Germany is a scam!
As well as oil filter, air filter, sparks and an oil filter tool.
I will also have a go at adjusting the valve play.
Then check the usual, brake discs, pads, fluid and I'm considering changing gearbox and final drive oil, but maybe not this time.
Anything I missed?

H_Lime

Sorry I've not read all this thread but you can buy oil in Ireland, you are in Ireland? We're a bit backwards but yep we have oil.
Regarding the old oil, leave it in the new container and put it on let's say a shelf?
Edit, I read on and yer in Deutschland... Disregard the first two sentences and maybe go to a shop that sells it����

two wheels good

The main dealer is the last resort for service items.
Did you find a German indie parts supplier? Knecht and Mahle filters are equivalent.


The engine and gear oil is standard auto oil. e.g. 20w50 mineral. Unless it's been running on synth .
€22-25 for 5l here. Local auto factor should be able to get it.
Buy another 5L and hand over all the waste oil at the same time?

Best to do gbox and FD oil. Drain FD into a clean container to inspect the oil.
You didnt forget the oil removal tool, good! Stick a few magnets on the base of filter if you have some.

Other service jobs to consider- depending on service history;
fuel filter, care required with studs if they're rusty, new o-ring.
check alternator belt
change brake fluid. (What about disposal?)
rear bleed nipple prone to seizing and shearing but dont panic, the insert is available in s-steel
open drain plug on air-box. front left of air box.

Lots of other tasks worth doing on a 20 yr old GS. Have a look on UKGSER, or PM me.

EDIT: Fill the filter with oil before installing, Check the rubber seal on old filter hasn't stuck to engine.
(Sorry if that's already obvs)

Detritus70

Well, attempt number one went absolutely nowhere.
Had the oil, filter, air filter and sparkers at the ready and then found out the sodding tool for the oil filter didn't fit.
It's a bit of a procedure, because I need to take those guard rails off (or whatchermacall those rollbars) and to do that the tank needs to be undone, but first remove the seat.
Then remove the underbody guard, try the tool, at least 5 mm too small.
Argh.
Changed the spark plugs and air filter at least.
Second attempt some time this week.
It's been a productive day (Not!), because I also tried to change the brake shoes on the missus Duster and found out I have no nut big enough to remove the brake drum.
Don't you just love it when you spend hours working and achieved absolutely nothing.
Ah well, at least the weather was nice.

Detritus70

Just a side note.
You'll need a 36 mm nut to undo the center nut if you want to change the rear brake shoes of a Dacia Duster.

enrique66_35

Detritus70 wrote: »

Well, attempt number one went absolutely nowhere.
...
Don't you just love it when you spend hours working and achieved absolutely nothing.
Ah well, at least the weather was nice.

As long as you learned something, got some experience working on the bike then I'd say you achieved plenty!

cococoady

two wheels good wrote: »

[EDIT] Correction: The ABS sensor is behind the rear wheel. Parts fiche.
Zubair's advice is correct.
Also check for play in final drive. This can upset the sensor gap. But if it's all fine after 5mins riding this is unlikely problem- fortunately!

Also:
Normal service resuming after 5mins makes me think is the battery voltage could be low. Put the battery on charge and see if there's any improvement.
ABS not working could be brushes stuck in ABS unit. Has anyone had a look at it? I don't think it's labour-intensive; cover can be removed with ABS in-situ AFAIK.
Check that brake light switches are working correctly.

You could be onto something with the battery alright. A couple of mornings the bike wouldn't start for me but did start later in the afternoon. I took the battery out and connected it to a trickle charger which said it was 80% full. Said I'd top it up to 100% whilst it was out. Couple of days later the bike wouldn't start again in the morning. Connected the charger to it again and it said there was only 20% charge in it. Going to get a new battery and hope that sorts everything.

two wheels good

ABS errors are often caused by weak batteries. These colder mornings...
Consider fitting a trailing power lead to the new battery so that you can connect the charger - and avoid the CanBus current complications on the acc socket.

two wheels good

R1150 engine bars; consider yourself lucky if your bars aren't also attached at the gearbox mounting/foot peg hanger.

Tank removal is easy thanks to QD connectors mostly. Worth replacing the little o-rings sometime at that age. The plastic of the male connectors can become brittle with age, careful handling required. If replacing, usually replaced with brass items.

galwaytt

Put an Odyssey PC680 battery in it.

I used to fit them.to very RT and GS I ever had.

https://www.murraymotorsport.com/extreme-racing-25-dry-cell-battery-pc680?gclid=CjwKCAjwlID8BRAFEiwAnUoK1YojglaiICN0v34XANTB_kJKNnMH2y5jkCBapHaKVbUn0jWhZ20U0BoCcqAQAvD_BwE

Set up charger directly, forget via the CanBus

Detritus70

Well, finally got around to changing the oil on Mathilda. Got the right tool and it was a doddle.
I didn't have to entirely remove the tank, just remove the seat, undo one bolt and lift the tank a little.
The I had enough access to undo the bolts to remove the frame and then proceed with the oil change.
Put everything back together, started her up and she ran like a bag of sh*te.
After a bit of digging I realised that the throttle cable on the right had come out and wasn't seated correctly. Put it back bike ran beautifully.
So that's new sparkplugs, air filter, oil and filter. Pumped up the tires (were a bit down) and went for another test drive.
Bike runs very well, well apart from the still slightly rough feeling gear box or final drive, but that's really not much of an issue and will be addressed later.

Detritus70

Hotblack Desiato

Yeah that BMW oil specially pumped out of BMW oilfields by BMW and refined in a BMW refinery then hand-poured into special BMW bottles sure is superior stuff, what would oil companies know about making oil, eh?? :pac:

Detritus70

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yeah that BMW oil specially pumped out of BMW oilfields by BMW and refined in a BMW refinery then hand-poured into special BMW bottles sure is superior stuff, what would oil companies know about making oil, eh?? :pac:

Yeah, not going back there again.
They told me a full service could cost €1000. :eek:

two wheels good

Nice condition. Nice colour too.

I see you have the desirable and rare Touratech side panels.
Detecting an unseated throttle cable, and the sense of relief is a rite of passage.

Detritus70

two wheels good wrote: »

Nice condition. Nice colour too.

I see you have the desirable and rare Touratech side panels.
Detecting an unseated throttle cable, and the sense of relief is a rite of passage.

The bike is in good condition overall, if one looks closer it becomes clear that this is a bike that has spent some time outside, some metal parts could do with a touch up and some plastic parts are a little faded, but it's a good basis to start with.
But I can tell you now, this bike is going to be every day transportation for me, it'll never be a polished concourse winner.

nigeldaniel

Detritus70 wrote: »

Yeah, not going back there again.
They told me a full service could cost €1000. :eek:

Yee Gods 1K for a full sere... you could get a fix it upper for that!!!
I was half thinking of a high miler R800 a while back at Classic Bikes Dublin but with all the travel restriction and hassle, I gave it a miss.

Detritus70

Mini update, weather has been unsuitable for riding here in the Allgäu, we've had a lot of snow.
But for the past week things have improved and while the mountains are still snow covered, the low lying areas are mostly clear.
Changed the gearbox and final drive oil yesterday, Motul 75W140 in the box and Motul 80W90 in the final drive.
After everything I've done the bike does feel smoother than initially, but the oil from the final drive looked like it never had been changed. There was sludge in it and there were a few metal shavings on the drain plug, nothing much.
It rides fine now, but I will definitely investigate into replacing the final drive crown wheel at some point.
No pics as there's nothing much to show.

Next on the list, adjusting valve clearance.

Sir Galahad

Great to see an update. Since I posted here last the servo on the brakes failed. It’s a 2005 so not unexpected. Thankfully I was stationary in traffic when it failed. Servo now removed as well as abs and all is well now. Keep us updated.

Detritus70

Sir Galahad wrote: »

Great to see an update. Since I posted here last the servo on the brakes failed. It’s a 2005 so not unexpected. Thankfully I was stationary in traffic when it failed. Servo now removed as well as abs and all is well now. Keep us updated.

Sure thing. The ABS in mine is the old, non-servo type. I've heard that the newer ones can be troublesome.
The problem with mine is that the ABS will quit if your battery isn't 100% fresh and fully charged. That's when you get the alternating blink of doom.
Drive it for a few km, turn off and on again, all is well.
But that was to be expected after months in the garage.
Have to say I'm loving this bike and thankfully nothing has gone wrong with it so far (knock on wood, throw salt over shoulder and clutches lucky rabbit's foot)

Sir Galahad

Detritus70 wrote: »

Sure thing. The ABS in mine is the old, non-servo type. I've heard that the newer ones can be troublesome.
The problem with mine is that the ABS will quit if your battery isn't 100% fresh and fully charged.

I think yours is "ABS 1" and is trouble free and fit for purpose. Once you replace the battery or start riding it for the summer again it wont give you problems. Enjoy.

two wheels good

ABS: Wait a few seconds between ign. on and starting. Gives the ABS self-test time to complete before the current draw from starter.
If the starter is gummed-up or magnets are beginning to detatch (common prob) the current draw is high and increases possibility of ABS faults. Symptom: starter slow to turn-over.

But braking power isn't impaired - unlike servo failure. As you say just restart later, or keep battery charged. Nuisance is having to set the clock!

Detritus70

two wheels good wrote: »

ABS: Wait a few seconds between ign. on and starting. Gives the ABS self-test time to complete before the current draw from starter.
If the starter is gummed-up or magnets are beginning to detatch (common prob) the current draw is high and increases possibility of ABS faults. Symptom: starter slow to turn-over.

But braking power isn't impaired - unlike servo failure. As you say just restart later, or keep battery charged. Nuisance is having to set the clock!

I'll give it a try.
Starter turns fine unless bike has been standing and I only had to set the clock once, that was the first start after the winter.
In warm weather and regular driving, I've no problems.
The ABS just doesn't like it if the battery isn't 100% fit and healthy, but it should survive the summer.
Not done any riding lately, because:

Detritus70

Sir Galahad wrote: »

I think yours is "ABS 1" and is trouble free and fit for purpose. Once you replace the battery or start riding it for the summer again it wont give you problems. Enjoy.

Yes, it's ABS 1.
Nearly bought a later BMW with type 2.
Glad I didn't. The later one felt much smoother to drive than my pepper grinder, but I guess that's down to final drive crown wheel.
And of course I've single spark instead of double.

Detritus70

Small update.
The bike had it's inspection, new tires and rear brake pads.
It feels much better on the new rubber and the cops who stopped me agreed that TUV, new tires and brakes are indeed the way to go.
You will get stopped a lot by cops here if you're on a bike.
Usually they take over a roadside car park, usually in a speed restricted zone, a guy with a radar gun hides down the road and clocks you and radios the results to the guys in the car park. Further up the road another cop waves at you to pull into the car park and there will be further cops who process everyone that got stopped.
It's like an assembly line. You get used to it. And the cops are usually sound.
This weekend I will attempt to adjust the valve play.

As for the rear end, I'm just calling the bike Pepper for now.
There is still a certain slight roughness.
I've watched videos on rebuilding that rear end and concluded that buying a whole rear diff is the way to go, since I don't have gear pullers and a hydraulic bearing press.
At the moment it's only a small issue that bears watching over time.