Farm accounts question: Can a farmers son be put down as an employee on accounts?

Farmer_3650

KAMG wrote: »

If the son is working 'long hours' as you call it, I would be really surprised if he isnt getting paid. Otherwise he is a fool. There is a big difference between working a few hours the odd weekend to help out your parents on the farm and working 24/7. If the son is off to college, I could imagine he is only doing a few hours here and there.

He wouldn't be working very long hours. He'd only be home weekends sept-may and then he's working most days for an agri contractor during the summer. I'd say an avg of 10-15hrs/week would be the height of it.

Sugarbowl

duffysfarm wrote: »

To suggest that a son registers for income tax and invoices his parents for work done on a farm is one of the most ludicrous suggestions i have ever heard. If you had a revenue audit or nera inspection they would rip tou to shreds.

What’s the problem with doing this? I know someone who has this setup. The son looks after their own tax through the accountant. The father pays the wages out of the farm account. The accountant suggested it. They have had no problem with it, and the son gets recognized for his work done.

duffysfarm

the tax system in Ireland is largely self assessment in that tax payers are responsible for their own tax affairs and Revenue do not check everything so the fact that one person does one thing does not mean that they are right as nobody may have checked it. a tax payer may get away with doing something wrong for a long time before it is ever checked, even a lifetime. take a look at the revenue press releases every quarter where they release the names address and details of persons who break the tax laws, default on taxes etc.

At the same time every case may be different - a son may be a part time farmer and part time fencing contractor and in that case he would invoice for his work as he is using his own tools, buys his own materials, responsible for his own hours, has more that one customer etc. just because they are a son doesnt mean that they have to be on payroll.
however given the details provided by the op - a son who is at college is and is working for only one person for a set number of hours each week and not supplying any tools or equipment is very unlikely to be self employed.
if anyone could register as self employed and invoice for their work then every employer in the country would sack their employers and tell them to go self employed.
one other thing to consider - would anyone here as a parent like to see their son or daughter been asked to register as self employed and not be treated as an employee and protected by the relevant legislation? no holiday pay, no bank holiday pay, no sick pay, no redundancy entitlements, no statutory entitlements?

Sugarbowl wrote: »

What’s the problem with doing this? I know someone who has this setup. The son looks after their own tax through the accountant. The father pays the wages out of the farm account. The accountant suggested it. They have had no problem with it, and the son gets recognized for his work done.

relax carry on

nhg wrote: »

You can pay up to €40 per week directly into their bank account without having to register as an employer with Revenue.

Can I ask where is that coming from as Revenues own instructions seem to contradict that. A farm laborer is not a domestic employee.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/becoming-an-employer-and-ongoing-obligations/registration-of-employers-for-paye-purposes/index.aspx

You must register as an employer if you pay your employee more than:

€8 per week (or €36 per month), if they are full time employees
€2 per week (or €9 per month), if they have other employment(s).

Tonynewholland

duffysfarm wrote: »

the tax system in Ireland is largely self assessment in that tax payers are responsible for their own tax affairs and Revenue do not check everything so the fact that one person does one thing does not mean that they are right as nobody may have checked it. a tax payer may get away with doing something wrong for a long time before it is ever checked, even a lifetime. take a look at the revenue press releases every quarter where they release the names address and details of persons who break the tax laws, default on taxes etc.

At the same time every case may be different - a son may be a part time farmer and part time fencing contractor and in that case he would invoice for his work as he is using his own tools, buys his own materials, responsible for his own hours, has more that one customer etc. just because they are a son doesnt mean that they have to be on payroll.
however given the details provided by the op - a son who is at college is and is working for only one person for a set number of hours each week and not supplying any tools or equipment is very unlikely to be self employed.
if anyone could register as self employed and invoice for their work then every employer in the country would sack their employers and tell them to go self employed.
one other thing to consider - would anyone here as a parent like to see their son or daughter been asked to register as self employed and not be treated as an employee and protected by the relevant legislation? no holiday pay, no bank holiday pay, no sick pay, no redundancy entitlements, no statutory entitlements?

Aren’t the highest paid people in RTÉ all in company setups. I don’t see why a farmers son/daughter couldn’t invoice for work done on the farm as a sole trader or otherwise

There are thousands of people contracting in the likes if IT that only work for one company too.

duffysfarm

they have all set up limited companies which for some strange reason makes it acceptable to revenue

Vivian Mysterious Stack wrote: »

There are thousands of people contracting in the likes if IT that only work for one company too.

Dinzee Conlee

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Aren’t the highest paid people in RTÉ all in company setups. I don’t see why a farmers son/daughter couldn’t invoice for work done on the farm as a sole trader or otherwise

Would they have to have their own insurance then?

Tonynewholland

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would they have to have their own insurance then?

Not sure what insurance would be needed from their side

AndrewJRenko

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Aren’t the highest paid people in RTÉ all in company setups. I don’t see why a farmers son/daughter couldn’t invoice for work done on the farm as a sole trader or otherwise

Those lads and lassies in RTE would all have considerable private work - public appearances, compere for commercial awards events, voiceover work.

893bet

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Would they have to have their own insurance then?

Insurance is nothing to do with revenue.

Dinzee Conlee

893bet wrote: »

Insurance is nothing to do with revenue.

I know that, it was more asking if that was something they needed to consider if they went down the sole trader route vs the employee route...

Tony above indicated it isn’t an issue.

Maybe the farm insurance covers them? I think it would be worth checking out. No point in trying to save a few quid only to discover you aren’t covered adequately if something did go very wrong...

Mooooo

You set the farm insurance to cover what ever amount of labour is going to be on the farm, regardless if it's direct employee or someone working as a sole trader