Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Definition of Primary Residence + rent a room

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Browney7 wrote: »
    If people are choosing to flout taxation law that's their business and in the event (albeit maybe unlikely) that they receive an audit or revenue come knocking, they may be in for a world of hurt.

    You'd also be potentially somewhat hostage to this couple if you ever fell out and they had the sword of Damocles hanging over you with a "I'll grass to the revenue on you...".

    What you choose to do is up to you - it's your business at the end of the day

    Well my plan would be to be a good "landlord". Rent would probably be below market rate too.


  • Options
    #33
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    I could just rent it to a couple then and leave one room free.

    Surprised the amount of pushback on this, I know a couple people who have been renting out their PPR and living elsewhere and getting paid 20k+ a year into their bank accounts and nothing has been said. And that's going on nearly a decade now. And they aren't even registered on the rent a room.
    We're strangers on the internet. We wont advise you to break the law.

    If my best friend was in your position I might give a speech about the chances of being caught, all it takes is one unhappy licensee. The likely consequences from a tax perspective and from a control of your own home perspective. But we wont advice illegal actions here.

    Just the same as we wont advise to rape or murder.


  • Options
    #34
    Sarn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭Sarn


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    I could just rent it to a couple then and leave one room free.

    Surprised the amount of pushback on this, I know a couple people who have been renting out their PPR and living elsewhere and getting paid 20k+ a year into their bank accounts and nothing has been said. And that's going on nearly a decade now. And they aren't even registered on the rent a room.

    If they’re pulling in over €14k then it’s not under the rent a room relief.


  • Options
    #35
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Sarn wrote: »
    If they’re pulling in over €14k then it’s not under the rent a room relief.

    Yes I know which is far more clear and dodgy than what I am saying and they've been at it nearly a decade now.


  • Options
    #36
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Well my plan would be to be a good "landlord". Rent would probably be below market rate too.

    No matter how good a LL you are it's easy enough to get landed with a delinquent tenant. You're then going to try and put them out with little to no notice as you consider them a licencee. That's when you're potentially going to end up with an RTB adjudication that they were in fact a tenant, possibly be ordered to take the tenant back and landed with a compensation bill.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    No matter how good a LL you are it's easy enough to get landed with a delinquent tenant. You're then going to try and put them out with little to no notice as you consider them a licencee. That's when you're potentially going to end up with an RTB adjudication that they were in fact a tenant, possibly be ordered to take the tenant back and landed with a compensation bill.

    How many delinquent tenants are there?

    I have rented and subleased for years and years and i've never had any trouble.

    Vast vast majority of people are good people and know they have to pay.

    And if there were any bad tenants trying to shaft me i would simply move back in and would force them out as I'd be the owner occupier.


  • Options
    #38
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    How many delinquent tenants are there?

    I think it worked out to about 1 in 100
    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    I have rented and subleased for years and years and i've never had any trouble.

    Vast vast majority of people are good people and know they have to pay.

    Mostly that's going to be your experience, thankfully. However it only takes one.
    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    And if there were any bad tenants trying to shaft me i would simply move back in and would force them out as I'd be the owner occupier.

    See this is why me and others are trying to warn you about gaming the system. It doesn't work that way.

    You obviously have decided on your course of action, I'm not sure why you felt the need to try and justify it or gain the approval of a bunch of randomers on the interwebz.


  • Options
    #39
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    How many delinquent tenants are there?

    I have rented and subleased for years and years and i've never had any trouble.

    Vast vast majority of people are good people and know they have to pay.

    And if there were any bad tenants trying to shaft me i would simply move back in and would force them out as I'd be the owner occupier.

    OP, you clearly have a very weak understanding of the processes and regulations here. I would suggest you go get some proper advice before doing what you're talking about.

    Once you move out, your renters are tenants, not licensees. This is a fact, and irrefutable. Any attempt to suggest otherwise will be laughed out.

    You cannot then simply move back in. You can evict tenants in order to reclaim the property for your own use, or for the use by a family member, but you must sign a statutory declaration indicating that this is your intention, and you must say how long you'll need it for. If you try rent again within a year, you must offer it back to your previous tenants.

    You cannot decide that you're just going to move back in without evicting the current tenants and sleep on the sofa. Your tenants can, and will challenge this, and they will win.

    Without understanding this stuff, the end result is your tenants are going to end up with some nice compensation for your incompetence.


  • Options
    #40
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    That gives the definition for main residence but not for sole, which I have just found. :)

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/living-city-initiative/lci-definitions.aspx



    This clears things up perfectly. You choose what your PPR is. Otherwise they would say, the property you live in for majority of the year or give a number of days required to live there.

    That definition belongs to the living city initiative.


  • Options
    #41
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    davindub wrote: »
    That definition belongs to the living city initiative.

    Seems hard to believe there's different definitions of sole residence.

    A lot of tax companies don't believe it's very clear either.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Brego888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Brego888


    I'm always curious to find out how the revenue would find this out? Is it only through a random audit?


  • Options
    #43
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Brego888 wrote: »
    I'm always curious to find out how the revenue would find this out? Is it only through a random audit?

    Would also like to know this considering there doesn't seem to be any auto alerts when X amount is lodged in an account.


  • Options
    #44
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,233 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »

    The definition of primary residence is unclear.

    No it’s not .


  • Options
    #45
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Allinall


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Would also like to know this considering there doesn't seem to be any auto alerts when X amount is lodged in an account.

    It can come to their attention through numerous ways:

    You could be randomly selected for audit.
    Your bank could be audited.
    Your bank could report what they believe to be suspicious transactions.
    Any of your tenants/ licencees could be audited.
    Any of your tenants/ licencees could report you.
    Any of your neighbours could report you.


  • Options
    #46
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Well my plan would be to be a good "landlord". Rent would probably be below market rate too.

    Landlord has tenants.
    Market rate relates to tenancies.

    Looks like you’ve answered your own question here.


  • Options
    #47
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I don't know why you keep coming back on this one OP - legally your position is untenable!
    While, the chances are that you would get away with what you are proposing, I would be willing to make a significant bet that both the Revenue or the RTB would find against you if it came down to it!


  • Options
    #48
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Landlord has tenants.
    Market rate relates to tenancies.

    Looks like you’ve answered your own question here.

    That's why I put landlord in "". :)


  • Options
    #49
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭DubCount


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    That's why I put landlord in "". :)

    I don't think you are proposing "tax evasion" - I think its just tax evasion. The rules are clear. Your PPR for the purpose of Rent-a-room is where you live, where someone would expect to find you most of the time. Revenue and the RTB wont give credit for being a nice "Landlord". If you are confident you are have invested a new tax loophole, go call up Revenue for an opinion.


  • Options
    #50
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    That's why I put landlord in "". :)

    Ohh, ok then. Then you “are not” committing tax evasion....... :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #51
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Thanks all, got the answers I needed.

    Mods can lock the thread now.


  • Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement