Nearly 6,000 women in Ireland have suffered Female Genital Mutilation

DelaneyIn

Nearly 6,000 women in Ireland have suffered Female Genital Mutilation and more than 1,600 are deemed to be at high risk.

But there has only been one prosecution here since the practice became illegal in 2012.

Garda Detective Inspector Danny Kelly, who worked on the historic case that saw a young girl’s parents jailed, yesterday called for greater cooperation between State agencies in the fight to protect girls in Ireland from FGM.

And advocacy groups warned that more girls are being “subjected to cutting” at home because of the Covid pandemic.

According to AkiDwA and ActionAid Ireland, both NGOs that work with migrant women here and abroad, up to 6,000 women have survived FGM in this country.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/nearly-6000-women-ireland-suffered-22553284

FGM is predominatly experienced by Islamic women from the Horn of Africa, in the West African countries of Guinea, Sierra Leone, Gambia, Mauritania, Mali and Burkina Faso, as well as in Sudan and Egypt.

So how does a government or society go about re-educating these people with out sounding islamo phobic racist or xenophobic?

Tell me how

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/nearly-6000-women-ireland-suffered-22553284

FGM is predominatly experienced by Islamic women from the Horn of Africa, in the West African countries of Guinea, Sierra Leone, Gambia, Mauritania, Mali and Burkina Faso, as well as in Sudan and Egypt.

So how does a government or society go about re-educating these people with out sounding islamo phobic racist or xenophobic?

They make sure that there are laws against such practices
They encourage community leaders to spread the message that such practices are illegal
They actively encourage medical professionals to direct information and education messages that such practices are dangerous and against medical advice.
They investigate any situation where such practice is suspected.
They charge and prosecute anyone suspected of carrying out such practices.

Or what do you suggest OP?

Mr. Karate

Tell me how wrote: »

They make sure that there are laws against such practices
They encourage community leaders to spread the message that such practices are illegal
They actively encourage medical professionals to direct information and education messages that such practices are dangerous and against medical advice.
They investigate any situation where such practice is suspected.
They charge and prosecute anyone suspected of carrying out such practices.

Or what do you suggest OP?

No way anyone in the mainstream parties has the balls to ban Sharia in this Country. Even though they should before it gets rooted into the Country.

Odhinn

Mr. Karate wrote: »

No way anyone in the mainstream parties has the balls to ban Sharia in this Country. Even though they should before it gets rooted into the Country.

You might want to tell this to the courts, as they seem to think the practice is banned

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/parents-jailed-over-female-genital-mutilation-of-daughter-1.4152765

Mr. Karate

Odhinn wrote: »

You might want to tell this to the courts, as they seem to think the practice is banned

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/parents-jailed-over-female-genital-mutilation-of-daughter-1.4152765

Clearly it isn't otherwise they wouldn't be able to build Mosques and have Halal butchers here.

Chris_Heilong

They will highlight it and talk about it but not take any actions to stamp it out. A few arrests would be a start. Treating everyone the same means religion and identity have no bearing and can never be used as a shield, ignorance is not a defense for breaking the law.

relax carry on

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Clearly it isn't otherwise they wouldn't be able to build Mosques and have Halal butchers here.

Oh dear. Please have a look at Art 44 of the constitution and stop embarrassing yourself.

relax carry on

Tell me how wrote: »

They make sure that there are laws against such practices
They encourage community leaders to spread the message that such practices are illegal
They actively encourage medical professionals to direct information and education messages that such practices are dangerous and against medical advice.
They investigate any situation where such practice is suspected.
They charge and prosecute anyone suspected of carrying out such practices.

Or what do you suggest OP?

Pretty sure the OP knows the above are already in place but that's not the answer they were looking for. It's more likely a torches and pitchforks kinda answer being sought.

Odhinn

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Clearly it isn't otherwise they wouldn't be able to build Mosques and have Halal butchers here.

You seem to be conflating perfectly legal activities with a practice specifically outlawed in the state. Why shoudn't there be mosques and halal butchers?

Tell me how

relax carry on wrote: »

Pretty sure the OP knows the above are already in place but that's not the answer they were looking for. It's more likely a torches and pitchforks kinda answer being sought.

That much was never in doubt.

4068ac1elhodqr

Odhinn wrote: »

You might want to tell this to the courts, as they seem to think the practice is banned
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/parents-jailed-over-female-genital-mutilation-of-daughter-1.4152765

The headline tells you all there is to know

(1st ever conviction) for ‘heinous and barbaric’ practice recorded in history of the State

I.e. A (tiny) 6,000/1 chance of legal action per annum (or ever actually), for medieval barbarism.
1st time ever in history a conviction in Ireland, although it has been illegal, practiced, and brushed under the carpet for rather some time now, perhaps a decade or two.

sydthebeat

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Clearly it isn't otherwise they wouldn't be able to build Mosques and have Halal butchers here.

You don't need sharia law to have mosques or halal butchers?? But I'm sure you knew that.

Also, sharia law doesn't call for fgm, and actually there are situations where fatawa has been called against those who fgm

Its a barbaric practise, which is against the law in Ireland.... And every effort should be made to educated those who practise it that it is not in any way culturally acceptable

Gatling

sydthebeat wrote: »

Its a barbaric practise, which is against the law in Ireland.... And every effort should be made to educated those who practise it that it is not in any way culturally acceptable

No amount of education will stop it ,they know it's barbaric,they know the suffering the victims go through and yet there culture comes first our laws and values mean nothing to them

end of the road

Mr. Karate wrote: »

No way anyone in the mainstream parties has the balls to ban Sharia in this Country. Even though they should before it gets rooted into the Country.

it is already banned.

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Clearly it isn't otherwise they wouldn't be able to build Mosques and have Halal butchers here.

neither have anything to do with sharia law.

ToddDameron

Odhinn wrote: »

You seem to be conflating perfectly legal activities with a practice specifically outlawed in the state. Why shoudn't there be mosques and halal butchers?

There should be laws against Halal butchers. It's absolutely moronic that we have laws in place that dictate what is humane (which are already debatable), yet we allow actions that directly contradict them, due to cultural reasons.

Das Reich

relax carry on wrote: »

Oh dear. Please have a look at Art 44 of the constitution and stop embarrassing yourself.

He is right actually. After the video of Theresa May wishing happy ramadan to muslim in UK you can see that those politicians are very affraid to deal with them.

https://youtu.be/_AWsEWvV8Zc

eviltwin

I’d imagine a fair amount of those women experienced FGM elsewhere as children before moving here.

Odhinn

ToddDameron wrote: »

There should be laws against Halal butchers. It's absolutely moronic that we have laws in place that dictate what is humane (which are already debatable), yet we allows actions that directly contradict them proceed due to cultural reasons.

Should there be laws against kosher butchery?

ToddDameron

Odhinn wrote: »

Should there be laws against kosher butchery?

There should be no exceptions to Irish law based on cultural practices. That's clear in my post.

sydthebeat

Gatling wrote: »

No amount of education will stop it ,they know it's barbaric,they know the suffering the victims go through and yet there culture comes first our laws and values mean nothing to them

I didn't say only education, I said every effort should be made to educate ... So education is the goal, not the method.

So I'm talking about international pressure, including ostracisation..... Fines, trade embargoes... Basically every avenue open to the international community.

jam_mac_jam

Odhinn wrote: »

Should there be laws against kosher butchery?

Yes. It's cruel to animals. It is banned in some European countries for this reason.

y0ssar1an22

i'd like to know what % was 'at home', is it all? do hospitals offer that?

barbaric behavior, ****ing animals. arrest those responsible and prosecute them for GBH.

and shame on anyone who defends that.


I hope the females involved can live a full life.

Gatling

sydthebeat wrote: »

I didn't say only education, I said every effort should be made to educate ... So education is the goal, not the method.

So I'm talking about international pressure, including ostracisation..... Fines, trade embargoes... Basically every avenue open to the international community.

It was reported last year it happening in UK hospitals and I'd wouldn't rule it out that's it's happened in Irish hospitals and gp surgeries too , that's highly educated doctors doing this ,there is no real fear and if you have any kind of crackdown its Islamophobic ,and Muslims are up in arms saying it's not happening

4068ac1elhodqr

sydthebeat wrote: »

.... And every effort should be made to educated those who practise it that it is not in any way culturally acceptable

end of the road wrote: »

it is already banned.

It's well know that it's banned, and inacceptable to the vast, vast majority.
But one single conviction back in Janurary, isn't exactly laying down the law in any meaningful way.

CS states/asks: ..for anyone who suspects or believes a child is at risk of FGM to "contact the Garda".

Clearly this isn't really happening, hasn't happened in the past, likely won't happen in the future (from these communities).
Thus will continue at the increasing rate of 6,000pa. You'd be lucky to present even a single handful (e.g. x5) of cases for prosecution per year.

Since it has been illegal guesstimate of 50-100,000 cases total in the last decade(s), with to date: x1 single conviction.
Perhaps this particular one was only noticed, and followed up, due to the severity of the infliction of the injury when presented to medical staff (bleeding and removal of parts).

Das Reich

ToddDameron wrote: »

There should be no exceptions to Irish law based on cultural practices. That's clear in my post.

It's not "cultural reasons", they just find disgusting a non muslim touching their food.

relax carry on

Das Reich wrote: »

He is right actually. After the video of Theresa May wishing happy ramadan to muslim in UK you can see that those politicians ate very affraid to deal with them

What part of Art 44 confuses you that you consider that it doesn't cover freedom to practice your religion in line with laws enacted by the state to protect its citizens? And what part of a former UK prime minister acknowledging a religious holiday of some UK citizens covers the terrible practice of FGM carried out by some Irish residents/citizens?

Odhinn

Das Reich wrote: »

It's not "cultural reasons", they just find disgusting a non muslim touching their food.

What do you say to people who find your user name "disgusting"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane

y0ssar1an22

praise whatever sky god you want, defend that barbaric behavior if you can.

Hotblack Desiato

Accumulator wrote: »

Thus will continue at the increasing rate of 6,000pa.

It's clearly not 6000 per annum, so it looks like you're pushing an agenda and aren't going to let facts get in the way.

Das Reich

Odhinn wrote: »

What do you say to people who find your user name "disgusting"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane

To study more history, specially the bombing of Normandy by yankees that killed 75.000 civilians leaving 200.000 orphans.

And what part of a former UK prime minister acknowledging a religious holiday of some UK citizens covers the terrible practice of FGM carried out by some Irish residents/citizens?

It just shows they are affraid to deal with them.

Tell me how

Dominique Microscopic Cocktail wrote: »

Clearly this isn't really happening, hasn't happened in the past, likely won't happen in the future (from these communities).
Thus will continue at the increasing rate of 6,000pa. You'd be lucky to present even a single handful (e.g. x5) of cases for prosecution per year.

The muslim population in Ireland is just over 60,000 total. How do you think it is happening at a rate of 6,000/annum?

4068ac1elhodqr

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's clearly not 6000 per annum, so it looks like you're pushing an agenda and aren't going to let facts get in the way.

Fair enough point, thought that the OP states 6k (pa).

The figure relates to since 2016 (4 yrs).

According to Central Statistics Office (CSO) data from 2016, an estimated 5,790 women and girls living in Ireland have suffered FGM.
This is still a high figure, regardless, consider also just x1 conviction.

A quick google, also shows that as many as 1,632 girls living in Ireland are currently estimated to be at 'high risk of FGM' (via CEO of development charity Actionaid).
Isn't there a better duty of care to protect these 1,600 circa girls from harm?

4068ac1elhodqr

Tell me how wrote: »

The muslim population in Ireland is just over 60,000 total. How do you think it is happening at a rate of 6,000/annum?

See above, discovered/corrected that the figure relates to a 4yr period.
Is circa 6k (over 4yrs), with just 1 single conviction in any way acceptable?

source: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30978150.html

end of the road

Das Reich wrote: »

He is right actually. After the video of Theresa May wishing happy ramadan to muslim in UK you can see that those politicians are very affraid to deal with them.

https://youtu.be/_AWsEWvV8Zc

no they aren't.
wishing a muslim happy ramadan is the biggest non-issue going.
absolutely scraping under the barrel here so you are.

Tell me how

Dominique Microscopic Cocktail wrote: »

Fair enough point, thought that the OP states 6k (pa).

The figure relates to since 2016 (4 yrs).

According to Central Statistics Office (CSO) data from 2016, an estimated 5,790 women and girls living in Ireland have suffered FGM.
This is still a high figure, regardless, consider also just x1 conviction.

A quick google, also shows that as many as 1,632 girls living in Ireland are currently estimated to be at 'high risk of FGM' (via CEO of development charity Actionaid).
Isn't there a better duty of care to protect these 1,600 circa girls from harm?

I refer you to post #2.

end of the road

Das Reich wrote: »

To study more history, specially the bombing of Normandy by yankees that killed 75.000 civilians leaving 200.000 orphans.

so because the yanks killed civilians which was completely wrong, the nazis are a great bunch of lads?
grow up.

Das Reich wrote: »

It just shows they are affraid to deal with them.

how does it?
it's simply wishing muslim people a happy ramadan, how does that corelate to being afraid to deal with "them" and what sort of dealing with of "them" do you want exactly?

skooterblue2

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i'd like to know what % was 'at home', is it all? do hospitals offer that?

barbaric behavior, ****ing animals. arrest those responsible and prosecute them for GBH.

and shame on anyone who defends that.


I hope the females involved can live a full life.

Its the women that do it to the girls....... think about it.

4068ac1elhodqr

Tell me how wrote: »

I refer you to post #2.

From that, your 4th point suggests that

'They investigate any situation where such practice is suspected'

What's the chance that the 1,600 or so currently viewed or suspected as bing as in a high risk category, will be monitored and consulted.

If any from this 'high risk group' are mutilated, also what's the chance of any convictions (considering the current lowly x1 total rate to date).

The law (if not already) should include FGM that takes place abroad.
Upon return the relatives who took the youngster out of the country for this procedure, should be held accountable upon their return.

y0ssar1an22

Dominique Microscopic Cocktail wrote: »

Fair enough point, thought that the OP states 6k (pa).

The figure relates to since 2016 (4 yrs).

According to Central Statistics Office (CSO) data from 2016, an estimated 5,790 women and girls living in Ireland have suffered FGM.
This is still a high figure, regardless, consider also just x1 conviction.

A quick google, also shows that as many as 1,632 girls living in Ireland are currently estimated to be at 'high risk of FGM' (via CEO of development charity Actionaid).
Isn't there a better duty of care to protect these 1,600 circa girls from harm?

its not a fair enough point!

1 is too many.

5790...who are the people that carried out that 'procedure'. that's who i'd be looking for, ****ing scumbags!

a TD hitting the beer at a golf outing during a pandemic, vs mutilating a woman.

why do so few people care?!

y0ssar1an22

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Its the women that do it to the girls....... think about it.

i dont give a **** if its a male/female/or whatever; its barbaric. there's no defence.

it should be prosecuted under the harshest possible laws!

suicide_circus

How bloody dare any of you judge other people's cultural practices, ever heard of the Magdalene Laundries??!

Tell me how

suicide_circus wrote: »

How bloody dare any of you judge other people's cultural practices, ever heard of the Magdalene Laundries??!

Yes.

Can you point me to anybody arguing that they should have been allowed to continue?

Tell me how

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i dont give a **** if its a male/female/or whatever; its barbaric. there's no defence.

it should be prosecuted under the harshest possible laws!

Think this is the 3rd time you have said similar.

Nobody is defending the practice of FGM.

skooterblue2

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i dont give a **** if its a male/female/or whatever; its barbaric. there's no defence.

it should be prosecuted under the harshest possible laws!

I am not defending it, I am suggesting it is ingrained into the culture and you will not remove it as easily as you think.

y0ssar1an22

Tell me how wrote: »

Think this is the 3rd time you have said similar.

Nobody is defending the practice of FGM.

what are your own views on it?

i've made mine clear 3 times.

relax carry on

Das Reich wrote: »

It just shows they are affraid to deal with them.

I'm sorry but we are at man in the pub level of discussion here. How exactly does a former UK prime ministers acknowledgement of a religious holiday belonging to some of her citizens come into the discussion around FGM in Ireland? Who are "they" and "them"? I presume the "them" are Muslims in your eyes? Any chance of having a look at the origins of FGM and who practices it and where? It predates Christianity and Islam and is practiced by many groups.

https://www.unfpa.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-frequently-asked-questions

"And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions."

Tell me how

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

what are your own views on it?

i've made mine clear 3 times.

I refer you to post #2.

Antares35

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Clearly it isn't otherwise they wouldn't be able to build Mosques and have Halal butchers here.

Mosques and Halal butchers carry out FGM? Are you suggesting we stamp out FGM or the religion entirely?

y0ssar1an22

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am not defending it, I am suggesting it is ingrained into the culture and you will not remove it as easily as you think.

its illegal and prosecute it as such.

re the wider culture/world, yeah i agree. am i going to run off on a crusade to rid the world to mutilating women? No.

that culture though, should not be accepted in any place on the world.

Mr. Karate

sydthebeat wrote: »

You don't need sharia law to have mosques or halal butchers??

What do you think they practice their faith and business according too? Its amazing how willfully ignorant some people are when it comes to Muslims.

skooterblue2

Does anyone remember Dr Ali Selim from Trinity advocating for FGM about 3 years back before they either sacked him or gave him leave?