Pull ups tips

De Danann

I do a five day split of weight training, and am trying to build up enough strength to do a full pull up.

Last year I tried assisted pull ups using a machine or trx ropes but it never seemed to help me progress towards a full unassisted pull up. This year I focused on heavier weights and different isolation exercises and that has gotten me as far as managing a little shrug while hanging from the bar.

Does anyone have any tips for getting beyond that? Is this primarily a lack of arm, shoulder or back strength that has me stuck? My goal is to do at least one full pull up by Christmas.

Cill94

De Danann wrote: »

I do a five day split of weight training,

This year I focused on heavier weights and different isolation exercises and that has gotten me as far as managing a little shrug while hanging from the bar.

Is this primarily a lack of arm, shoulder or back strength that has me stuck?

You just need to get stronger overall. If you can’t do a strict pull-up yet then you’re getting ahead of yourself with 5 day splits and isolation exercises. You’d be better served working full body and focusing on compound exercises.

Try doing a combination of chin up negatives (just doing the lowering down portion slow and controlled) and get stronger on some kind of row. Good to set goals and I think Christmas is realistic if you stick to the above.

Alf Veedersane

Check this out. Good tips on building up your pull ups

1 sheep2

De Danann wrote: »

Does anyone have any tips for getting beyond that? Is this primarily a lack of arm, shoulder or back strength that has me stuck?

Back strength, I would think. Saw a few people on reddit before saying that began by first hanging from the bar.

Mellor

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Back strength, I would think. Saw a few people on reddit before saying that began by first hanging from the bar.

Hanging from the bar works your grip, and stretches you shoulders. But does very little if anything for your back.

De Danann wrote: »

I do a five day split of weight training, and am trying to build up enough strength to do a full pull up.

Last year I tried assisted pull ups using a machine or trx ropes but it never seemed to help me progress towards a full unassisted pull up. This year I focused on heavier weights and different isolation exercises and that has gotten me as far as managing a little shrug while hanging from the bar.

Does anyone have any tips for getting beyond that? Is this primarily a lack of arm, shoulder or back strength that has me stuck? My goal is to do at least one full pull up by Christmas.

Why a 5 day split?
That typical of advanced bodybuilders with assistance.
If you want to get stronger, follow a simple strength routine.

What do you weigh

Black Sheep

I think the least fussy means of building up to a strict pull-up is to do sets of controlled negatives.

Jump yourself up to the top of the pull-up position and hold there, then slowly lower yourself down through the movement to the bottom. Release, repeat. You will know you are working hard enough when you can no longer control your descent after a few sets.

Doing negatives in this way might not seem like it will get you to a strict pull-up but if you really focus on controlling the descent you'll get there.

There are also a few technical details that can make a different a difference to getting a pull-up. When the time comes to get your first one, really grip the hell out of the bar, hard, to encourage as much muscle activation as you can. Your glutes and your core should be tight as hell also.

The thing about pull-ups is that once you get that one pull-up, you can immediately start building on that. Once you can do one it's easy to use different protocols to get that number up to 2, then 3, then 5 and so on. But the first one is hard.

The final observation I'd make is that you don't mention your weight but body composition can be a factor here too.

De Danann

Mellor wrote: »

Hanging from the bar works your grip, and stretches you shoulders. But does very little if anything for your back.



Why a 5 day split?
That typical of advanced bodybuilders with assistance.
If you want to get stronger, follow a simple strength routine.

What do you weigh

I've always gone with my partner who does a five day split and trained me that way (Legs, Chest, Back, Shoulders, Arms). It's just my routine after work every day to go gym. I have no other hobbies or anything and I enjoy it.

I currently weigh 63kg on the button (female).

De Danann

Black Sheep wrote: »

I think the least fussy means of building up to a strict pull-up is to do sets of controlled negatives.

Jump yourself up to the top of the pull-up position and hold there, then slowly lower yourself down through the movement to the bottom. Release, repeat. You will know you are working hard enough when you can no longer control your descent after a few sets.

Doing negatives in this way might not seem like it will get you to a strict pull-up but if you really focus on controlling the descent you'll get there.

There are also a few technical details that can make a different a difference to getting a pull-up. When the time comes to get your first one, really grip the hell out of the bar, hard, to encourage as much muscle activation as you can. Your glutes and your core should be tight as hell also.

The thing about pull-ups is that once you get that one pull-up, you can immediately start building on that. Once you can do one it's easy to use different protocols to get that number up to 2, then 3, then 5 and so on. But the first one is hard.

The final observation I'd make is that you don't mention your weight but body composition can be a factor here too.

That's very helpful description, thank you. I had been told about doing negatives very recently so the fact you mention them too, I'll have to give them a try. They seemed like they would be just as difficult for me to do as a pull up though haha!

I weigh 63kg and am 5"4, quite slim build with some muscular definition on arms and legs as they are my favourite things to work out. I'll need to start focusing elsewhere though if I want to achieve this!

De Danann

Thank you for all the replies so far, some very good information and detail being provided!

Mellor

De Danann wrote: »

I've always gone with my partner who does a five day split and trained me that way (Legs, Chest, Back, Shoulders, Arms). It's just my routine after work every day to go gym. I have no other hobbies or anything and I enjoy it.

I currently weigh 63kg on the button (female).

It’s going to be suboptimal training a 5 day split in order to build strength for pull-ups.
You need a stronger back, but you only train back one a week. I’d be doing a 2 or 3 day strength split.
Or at the very least, include pull ups everyday.

No reason you won’t get there at 63kg. Just takes time.

Thelonious Monk

When I started them almost 20 years ago I used to go to the gym with my brother. So we'd do wide grip pullups and assist each other, as in I would push him from the hips while he pulled himself up. Sometimes we'd both have to use all our might to get over the bar! Eventually you'll be able to do a few on your own.
I would only do these once a week.
But for me now, it's down to how much I weigh and muscle to weight ratio. Currently they're easy as I lost a bit of weight during lockdown but if I let a few kg come back on they are so much harder and I'd struggle to do 8 at a time.

atilladehun

When I started I used the convict conditioning pull up basics to get going. Over time it got me up to 3x10 full pull ups at my best.

If you just Google convict conditioning pull ups you can find instructions and images. It might seem basic at the start but you spend that time working on form.

If you're working out with a squat rack then you can set the barbell at low heights and tip away.

Black Sheep

De Danann wrote: »

That's very helpful description, thank you. I had been told about doing negatives very recently so the fact you mention them too, I'll have to give them a try. They seemed like they would be just as difficult for me to do as a pull up though haha!

I weigh 63kg and am 5"4, quite slim build with some muscular definition on arms and legs as they are my favourite things to work out. I'll need to start focusing elsewhere though if I want to achieve this!

Sounds like body composition is not a factor then, I'm sure you'll get there.

To jump up to that top position use a box or similar, and once you've got yourself up there you just lower yourself in as controlled a manner as you can. If that's very hard you could get your training partner to put their arms around your waist for some minimal assistance.

The other time-tested method of getting pull-ups is for you to do them band-assisted. You are basically performing a pull-up as you would if it were strict, but you have a band over your shins (or you're standing on it) and this provides the extra help. The problem I've seen is that people go with too strong a band and they end up just yo-yoing up and down. You need to find a band that gives you minimal enough support but that lets you get some pull-ups. It can be tricky. In theory you'd then go down through bands until you're using the lightest one possible. You'd be doing reps with that one. Then one day you'd try a pull-up with no band, and ... voila... you'd do a rep.

Taylor365

This video helped me the most:

Went form using mostly my arms, to activating the lats a ton more!

Alf Veedersane

Like with any other movement, have some form of structure to how you build up your pull ups. Just going in and trying valid progressions to a full pull up, in an ad hoc way, without any structured progression, is going to yield way poorer results than a planned progression

Patsy167

As others have said - slow, controlled negatives work really well for most body weight exercises.

Greasing the grove is also a great method for Pushups and Pull-ups - https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/get-stronger-by-greasing-the-groove/

rubadub

De Danann wrote: »

That's very helpful description, thank you. I had been told about doing negatives very recently so the fact you mention them too, I'll have to give them a try. They seemed like they would be just as difficult for me to do as a pull up though haha!

Negatives helped me hugely, but go easy on them, I found them very easy to do and so it is easy to over do them and be in bits the next day or 2

Once you have these nailed, they’re really controlled you’ll be ready for a full pull-up and serious gains.

Be warned though: you might have serious DOMS from this, really serious DOMS! The eccentric phase of a lift is what causes the worst soreness and the first time you push yourself onto a negative chin-up might make you wince when opening a drawer the day after.

Cill94

rubadub wrote: »

Negatives helped me hugely, but go easy on them, I found them very easy to do and so it is easy to over do them and be in bits the next day or 2

Yeah I usually would recommend doing no more than about 5-10 total reps on these for the first session. Soreness generated can be pretty intense for some people.

atilladehun

rubadub wrote: »

Negatives helped me hugely, but go easy on them, I found them very easy to do and so it is easy to over do them and be in bits the next day or 2

That reminds me. I've seen chats online where people advocate doing a little often if you can at the start. Like get a door hanging bar and do things like 1-2 negatives or rows at least once a day to start.

Increase the frequency to a few times a day first. Then bring that frequency together to increase the quantity if you get me.

I think I added that to my pproach too.

rubadub

atilladehun wrote: »

That reminds me. I've seen chats online where people advocate doing a little often if you can at the start. Like get a door hanging bar and do things like 1-2 negatives or rows at least once a day to start.

That is pretty much what greasing the groove is.

Patsy167 wrote: »

Greasing the grove is also a great method for Pushups and Pull-ups - https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/get-stronger-by-greasing-the-groove/

I did this too and it definitely helped. I had a chinup bar in the entrance to my bedroom. I now do the odd pullup or hang when going down my stairs, I can grab onto the landing when half way down.

Once I got some chinups I got more really quickly. The way I see it you are not using all the muscles in the right combination before you can do one, so it would be like starting out with a 20kg dumbell and not being able to curl it or press it and struggling with it for ages before you can manage one.

Also the OP mentioned pullups rather than chinups, usually the convention is chinups are palms facing you and pullups is palms away, though it common for people to say pullups when they mean palms facing. Chinups are easier for most people so best to start on them first, palms facing you.

De Danann

rubadub wrote: »

Also the OP mentioned pullups rather than chinups, usually the convention is chinups are palms facing you and pullups is palms away, though it common for people to say pullups when they mean palms facing. Chinups are easier for most people so best to start on them first, palms facing you.

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to the gym this evening so I'll give this a go as well as attempting negatives. I've always attempted pull ups with palms facing away and hang from the bar with palms facing away.

Alf Veedersane

De Danann wrote: »

I've always attempted pull ups with palms facing away and hang from the bar with palms facing away.

You might find that the palms facing towards you might help in the short term as there is more bicep involvement.

AllForIt

I never found controlled negatives of any use. They strengthened my biceps more than anything I found. Assisted pull ups for me is way better. It engages all the muscles lat negatives don't. Use a lat pulldown machine in combo.

The problem with controlled negatives is if your shoulders and biceps are much stronger than your lat's they will find a way to do all the work, leaving your lats doing noting.

Mellor

AllForIt wrote: »

I never found controlled negatives of any use. They strengthened my biceps more than anything I found. Assisted pull ups for me is way better. It engages all the muscles lat negatives don't. Use a lat pulldown machine in combo

Which muscles are not used in a negatve?

Also, bicep involvement would be greatly reduced with pull-ups (palms out).
Would probably be better to do negatives with chin-ups instead of pull-ups.

The problem with controlled negatives is if your shoulders and biceps are much stronger than your lat's they will find a way to do all the work, leaving your lats doing noting.

Shoulders move the arm away from the body, lats do the opposite. Shoulders can stablise the movement, but they can't do any of the work of the lats.

Biceps aid the movement at the elbow, but nobody struggling to to a pull up is curling most of their bodyweight. But pull-ups will reduce the involvement,

Alf Veedersane

AllForIt wrote: »

I never found controlled negatives of any use. They strengthened my biceps more than anything I found. Assisted pull ups for me is way better. It engages all the muscles lat negatives don't. Use a lat pulldown machine in combo.

The problem with controlled negatives is if your shoulders and biceps are much stronger than your lat's they will find a way to do all the work, leaving your lats doing noting.

You're doing the second half of the movement, not a completely different movement. So why would the muscles used be different?

Cill94

AllForIt wrote: »

I never found controlled negatives of any use. They strengthened my biceps more than anything I found. Assisted pull ups for me is way better. It engages all the muscles lat negatives don't. Use a lat pulldown machine in combo.

The problem with controlled negatives is if your shoulders and biceps are much stronger than your lat's they will find a way to do all the work, leaving your lats doing noting.

The protocol you used can absolutely work.

Negatives also work and have worked for many many people. They only don’t work if you are not doing the following:

- Starting from a static hold with your chin over the bar

-Working a full range of motion

- Lowering yourself slowly without swinging

- Doing them in tandem with a lower intensity pulling exercise (e.g. a dumbbell row)

De Danann

I attempted negatives over the last couple of days and must say they are quite tricky! It's hard to resist letting yourself drop quickly rather than controlled.

I've also tried doing them with palms facing inwards and outwards to see which is easier for me. Inwards seems to use bicep strength more, and outwards I tried engaging lats more.

I've been doing sort of assisted negatives where I stand on tip toes on the edge of a box and lean down into the negative, relying as little as possible on my toes to control the descent.

The little 'shrug' I've been managing seems to be getting a little longer each time so I'm hoping it will eventually evolve into the full monty.

Thanks for everyone's tips and advice. I'll hopefully be posting back on this forum by Christmas to say I've done a full pull up!

Phillip876

Assisted pull-ups helps in strengthening muscles, then you can progress those into full pull-up. No doubt it takes time and effort, but its the foundation of your future training. A good foundation helps in preventing injuries and keeps you on the track of fitness.