Gardai have overwhelmingly negative view of Travellers - survey

Foxhound38

According to an article by the Times today, the results of a survey carried out within the Gardai shows overwhelmingly negative views of Travellers and Roma within the force.

This is a bit of a tough one - on the one hand, these lads and ladies are on the front lines having to deal with people from these groups everyday. These attitudes were likely not picked from the ether. And I'm not one to defend the "culture boss" stuff - you only have to take a look at the illiteracy, educational attainment, incarceration, drug use, teenage pregnancy, suicide and chronic joblessness rate within those communities to see that there is and has been a very serious problem with the culture they speak about.

On the other hand, if the people working for the State agency they are most likely to have contact with from an early stage in life already has a negative view of their entire group, what hope can there be of improved relations between settled and travelling people? What hope is there that there can be any future buy-in to society from these people?

What can be done here?


Mod Note from post 78

Generic 'traveller bashing' is not welcome here. Either post in specific relation to the OP or dont post at all.

Eric Cartman

Id imagine the first hand experience of these groups has only cemented their negative views.
The only way for travellers to reform the views of them in society is for themselves as a community to actively stop participating in crime and violence. The state has done all it can, its time for them to take personal responsibility for how society correctly sees them.

suicide_circus

Foxhound38 wrote: »

What can be done here?

These groups could stop committing crime on an industrial scale?

Banana Republic.

Foxhound38 wrote: »

According to an article by the Times today, the results of a survey carried out within the Gardai shows overwhelmingly negative views of Travellers and Roma within the force.

This is a bit of a tough one - on the one hand, these lads and ladies are on the front lines having to deal with people from these groups everyday. These attitudes were likely not picked from the ether. And I'm not one to defend the "culture boss" stuff - you only have to take a look at the illiteracy, educational attainment, incarceration, drug use, teenage pregnancy, suicide and chronic joblessness rate within those communities to see that there is and has been a very serious problem with the culture they speak about.

On the other hand, if the people working for the State agency they are most likely to have contact with from an early stage in life already has a negative view of their entire group, what hope can there be of improved relations between settled and travelling people? What hope is there that there can be any future buy-in to society from these people?

What can be done here?

Pavee Point need to actually be more then just a name, they need to actively encourage and enforce change plus the travelling community need to want to change aswell. The Gardaí didn’t pick up this attitude out of nowhere but you can’t tar all the Gardaí or the travelling community with the same brush either. It’s a really tough one because they are a law unto themselves. The Gardaí have to deal with a caveman mentally from the Male and female travelers which has gotten considerably worse with the introduction of drug fuelled traveller gangs too. The Gardaí need more power, The will for change has to be on both sides but without the intimidation from travellers Gardaí wouldn’t have this issue in the first place.

CtevenSrowder

Is anyone surprised?

Duke of Url

Remove the minority ethnic group status and treat them like any other Joe Soap in the country.

We dont need buy in from them.

We need the laws of the country to apply to everyone residing in the country.

Plumbthedepths

I find the results of the study shocking. I rarely hear of any Garda interaction with members of said communities.

Thelonious Monk

What I find disappointing is that the one or two travellers that get an education and a public voice, like that Dr Joyce woman, use their platform to just bang on about how mistreated travellers are by us, instead of maybe trying to sort out their own community instead of blaming it on others. It's at the stage now where neither side trusts the other, but it can't all be down to us to sort everything out.
Also their way of life is just not compatible with ours, so they're always going to be breaking the law. I really don't know what can be done.

Eric Cartman

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I find the results of the study shocking. I rarely hear of any Garda interaction with members of said communities.

ohh theres plenty of interaction, sadly they're just reluctant to up this interaction to involving handcuffs as it should.

whisky_galore

In other news, water found to be wet.

jimmycrackcorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I find the results of the study shocking. I rarely hear of any Garda interaction with members of said communities.

I too am shocked at the idea that the gardai have the same opinions as the rest of us

Eric Cartman

Various Artists wrote: »

Funny how 'they' are trying to lump in the travellers with the Romanian gypsies when those two groups probably hate each other.

Absolutely, theres no group more racist against 'brown' people in this country than travellers and the Roma consider travellers as rocking the boat too much resulting in their criminality being more visible and clamped down upon.

Foxhound38

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What I find disappointing is that the one or two travellers that get an education and a public voice, like that Dr Joyce woman, use their platform to just bang on about how mistreated travellers are by us, instead of maybe trying to sort out their own community instead of blaming it on others. It's at the stage now where neither side trusts the other, but it can't all be down to us to sort everything out.
Also their way of life is just not compatible with ours, so they're always going to be breaking the law. I really don't know what can be done.

It boils my blood when they do that because often the ones who do manage to get a decent education (and fair play to them for that much) face the most vociferous opposition during that process from their own community, generally members of their own extended family who see education as a threat to the culture, especially for girls. It's definately not unheard of for male members of extended traveller families to attempt to forcefully take girls out of education even where the parents of the child wish them to stick with it.

Then the ones who get through it often turn around at the end of it and publicly blame the rest of us for the problems that beset that community. There is definately prejudice in the settled community towards them but it's generally gained from first hand experience and their biggest issues are ones they themselves created.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also their way of life is just not compatible with ours, so they're always going to be breaking the law. I really don't know what can be done.

Sure, you do. You said it at the beginning of the sentence. Their way of life is incompatible with ours.

Which means that Traveller culture should not be protected, and moves should be made to wean Travellers away from that culture. Their special ethnic status should be removed, and they shouldn't receive any welfare benefits that aren't already available to normal citizens.

Basically, as was said earlier, they need to be treated the same as any other member of Irish society. They're not a minority needing special treatment. but simply Irish people.

Come down hard on the drug dealing, the prostitution, the bare knuckle fighting rings, etc. Heavily Tax the use of caravans or mobile homes, while providing them with basic jobs capable of paying the rent in apartments. No free houses. Treat them the same as any other working class persons/families needing a helping hand. Cut out all the BS that prevents them from being treated the same as any other Irish person, with the responsibilities and consequences of their choices/behavior.

Dempo1

What can be done? Absolutely nothing, Nada, Zilch frankly. I work in a Midlands town and weekly, daily, hourly I witness what the Gardai have to put up with, let alone the public. Things got marketly worse after ENDA Kenny stood up in the Dail and approved ethnic recognition, the ink had barely dried on the legislation when the nonsense started, ask any retailer dealing with this BS on a daily basis. It's perhaps an awful thing to say but since restrictions came in re Covid-19, it's been a godsend and pretty much most of the horrendous behaviour seems confined to their own dwellings & circle

punisher5112

Is this any surprise?

Gardai need armed back up to enter sites....

They intimidate to no end and the UK police don't even know what to do with them.

Banana Republic.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What I find disappointing is that the one or two travellers that get an education and a public voice, like that Dr Joyce woman, use their platform to just bang on about how mistreated travellers are by us, instead of maybe trying to sort out their own community instead of blaming it on others. It's at the stage now where neither side trusts the other, but it can't all be down to us to sort everything out.
Also their way of life is just not compatible with ours, so they're always going to be breaking the law. I really don't know what can be done.

Absolutely nailed it, their way of life isn’t compatible to ours. You can fit a round peg in a square hole.

boombang

I saw the Gardaí arrest two people in Dún Laoghaire the other week. I can't be sure, but they seemed to be travellers. One of them resisted arrest and gave the guards such a hard time. There'd be no way you wouldn't form a negative view of people like that.

amadangomor

boombang wrote: »

I saw the Gardaí arrest two people in Dún Laoghaire the other week. I can't be sure, but they seemed to be travellers. One of them resisted arrest and gave the guards such a hard time. There'd be no way you wouldn't form a negative view of people like that.

Had an interaction with them in Dun Laoghaire.

Was out with friends who were playing bongos on the rocks. The traveler girls were interested and came over and had a try. The lads on the other hand started to throw stones at us. Polish lads with us threw stones back at them:pac:

Have had a couple of positive interactions with travelers but most have been negative. Sad the uncivilised ones give the others a bad name.

Thelonious Monk

What is the British police approach like to Irish Travellers? Is it just a case of the police having a hands off policy and letting them be like it is here?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

I'd suspect that this view is not confined to members of An Garda Siochana.

CtevenSrowder

I wonder what the Guards views are on the Amish and their illegal dumping.

punisher5112

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What is the British police approach like to Irish Travellers? Is it just a case of the police having a hands off policy and letting them be like it is here?

They're afraid of them.... Outnumbered and intimidated.

Gods Gift

Why did kenny do it.
Did he think it would be his legacy.
There are around 35000 travellers in Ireland. 80% unemployment. I live near a small town with a good few travellers and they have contributed zero to the town. During the country wide lockdown caravans came and went as they pleased from a new illegal halting site. One day no caravans, 3 days later over 20. Of the 8 pubs in town, 4 are up over discrimination. How do they get van licenses when the couple I have asked to write down quotes I got for painting a few sheds told me they can’t write.

RasTa

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What is the British police approach like to Irish Travellers? Is it just a case of the police having a hands off policy and letting them be like it is here?

More of this needed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCpygYSP6cg

Dog handler was cleared of all charges

Gods Gift

Gods Gift wrote: »

Why did kenny do it.
Did he think it would be his legacy.
.

Virtue signalling. It was the same with the acceptance of migrants pushed by the EU. Kenny wanted to appear magnanimous, and charitable towards those "less fortunate". There was no desire to consider the consequences to such gestures, or the overall cost to the taxpayer or society. TBF Kenny wasn't exactly alone in this kind of mindset. We've had a long line of politicians who want to make those kind of gestures.. perhaps showing other countries just how free and inclusive Ireland is.

StevenToast

The Gardai are normal people and they simply reflect the views of the general population...

Edgware

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Is anyone surprised?

Well you could have knocked me over with a feather!

Gerry Hatrick

The Gardai are correct. Travellers stole and killed my dog many years ago as well as well as stealing two bikes i had in my shed. They've earned their reputation it hasn't been dreamt up like a Donald Trump tweet.

shipposter

I also hate travellers

punisher5112

Sure they have a traveller in the senate now, she set up travellers pride which happens to be exactly the same as the LGBT movement.

Over the years I've caught them stealing, attempt at getting into houses which have footage of, intimidated at home and at work, threats, so much more.


A lot are big into drug dealing now too.

TheRiverman

Cue Martin Collins of Pavee Point to comment on this survey and blame everyone but his own lawless people.I have never heard him comment on why Travellers go to their own family weddings and funerals armed with slash hooks,hurleys,baseball bats,guns, machetes, etc.

boombang

I welcome the publication of this report. It's good that official Ireland is forced to acknowledge that travellers are not liked. If you were to rely on the Irish Times and RTE you would think that there was widespread love and sympathy for travellers as a group that have had a hard lot. Opinions in the real world are so different. It's the dishonesty of the official PC line that bugs me the most.

punisher5112

TheRiverman wrote: »

Cue Martin Collins of Pavee Point to comment on this survey and blame everyone but his own lawless people.I have never heard him comment on why Travellers go to their own people's family weddings and funerals armed with slash hooks,hurleys,baseball bats,guns, machetes, etc.

No normal person would but supposedly we aren't allowed to discuss or state the obvious, they are protected now more then ever and use the race card all the time.

If they were to contribute to society in some positive way that would be great but I don't believe I'll ever see it in my lifetime.

kob29

Maybe the Gardai...like the rest of us (& the law abiding travellers) are sick of upset people reporting their dogs stolen.

If travellers want to change the image they've earned then change their ways and stop always just screaming for rights, free land and special ethic status......return a few beloved dogs for a start!

punisher5112

boombang wrote: »

I welcome the publication of this report. It's good that official Ireland is forced to acknowledge that travellers are not liked. If you were to rely on the Irish Times and RTE you would think that there was widespread love and sympathy for travellers as a group that have had a hard lot. Opinions in the real world are so different. It's the dishonesty of the official PC line that bugs me the most.

Well that absolutely loved getting snapped with your one cash..... She wasn't poor she stated just homless, she wanted her 4ever home and cried loud enough and got it.....

shipposter

shipposter wrote: »

I also hate travellers

I don't. I hate traveller culture.

Travellers, themselves, should be treated on an individual basis. I've taught adult literacy classes to Travellers, and quite a few of them are lovely people, just dealt a bad hand in life. The same could easily be said for a variety of working class people I know who are just as rough, have done time, etc. Hard life.

The mistake of Irish society and governments is the idea that we should support Travellers in their cultural lifestyle. Instead, we should be doing away with this primitive culture, and pushing Travellers into becoming Irish people.

As long as there is the "Traveller" category, then they will continue to be outside of society, and have little interest in joining with Irish people.

c.p.w.g.w

What the traveller community needs, is a proper role model that encourages/promotes education...

Sock of hearing "we can't get jobs" well you don't have a junior cert, you can't read or write... effectively it their parents fault for not ensuring they get to school and do the nessesary work...

Dyr

Various Artists wrote: »

Funny how 'they' are trying to lump in the travellers with the Romanian gypsies when those two groups probably hate each other.

When the Roma first showed up I'm told that our indigenious ethnic minority referred to them as "jews" for some reason.

No love was lost.

Multipass

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What is the British police approach like to Irish Travellers? Is it just a case of the police having a hands off policy and letting them be like it is here?

No, they actually do manage to move them on, unlike here. The town where my family live dug a kind of moat to stop them parking caravans. This was after the last lot moved, having stolen the internet cabling, and smearing human faeces all over the local playground.
I can’t imagine why they are so despised....

breezy1985

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sure they have a traveller in the senate now, she set up travellers pride which happens to be exactly the same as the LGBT movement.

Over the years I've caught them stealing, attempt at getting into houses which have footage of, intimidated at home and at work, threats, so much more.


A lot are big into drug dealing now too.

She is involved in groups that help traveller women in abusive relationships and also an LGBT traveller group so at least she is willing to admit her culture has problems and is trying to reform from within too.

My whole problem with the ethnic minority status is as one of the above posts points out and our new senator shows that when they do get an education and engage in society they are no better or worse than the rest of us and are accepted.
Many aspects of Irish culture are different I for instance see my working class culture as very different to the upper class people in my city or the D4 people and people with my address on a CV do also get discriminated against jobs wise but still non of those cultures should be considered an ethnic minority.

Banana Republic.

Multipass wrote: »

No, they actually do manage to move them on, unlike here. The town where my family live dug a kind of moat to stop them parking caravans. This was after the last lot moved, having stolen the internet cabling, and smearing human faeces all over the local playground.
I can’t imagine why they are so despised....

Yea sure they moved them from that Something Farm place, a huge illegal traveller site, they do much better then the laws over here.

banie01

Why are the results of a survey that was carried out between 2012-2014 of a limited cohort of Gardaí only newsworthy now?

Insp McInerney interviewed 182 gardaí from across the organisation, comprising 111 ELOs and 71 frontline gardaí, between 2012 and 2014.

What actual news is this release distracting from?

Foxhound38

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

What the traveller community needs, is a proper role model that encourages/promotes education...

Sock of hearing "we can't get jobs" well you don't have a junior cert, you can't read or write... effectively it their parents fault for not ensuring they get to school and do the nessesary work...

The biggest problem is that the same people who "can't get jobs" because they lack education or literacy will then proceed to have a rake of kids who they will by and large then remove from education after or in many cases before primary school is completed - allowing the cycle to repeat itself. Even when the parents wish them to go on to finish secondary school, often extended family see it as an affront to their culture (a sort of "they think they're better than us" mentality) and especially in the case of girls often attempt to physically remove them from formal education.

On the settled side the problem is that when this happens, there is rarely any follow up from the school (who are often happy enough to be rid of Travellers at the school anyway) or any attempt to enforce the child's right to an education by the State - because if anyone else tried to take a kid out of school before 12 Tulsa would rightly be all over it.

silver2020

My sister is in retail.

She has very little interaction with travellers as they prefer not to go via the checkout when they pick up goods.



That sadly is factual in many retail stores and a reason why travellers are disposed by retailers.

Foxhound38

Bambi wrote: »

When the Roma first showed up I'm told that our indigenious ethnic minority referred to them as "jews" for some reason.

No love was lost.

Used to work with Roma and even when caught red handed doing something they shouldn't be doing their script was to immediately blame "Irish gypsies" for whatever damage or theft was caused.

They don't like each other at all

c.p.w.g.w

Foxhound38 wrote: »

The biggest problem is that the same people who "can't get jobs" because they lack education or literacy will then proceed to have a rake of kids who they will by and large then remove from education after or in many cases before primary school is completed - allowing the cycle to repeat itself. Even when the parents wish them to go on to finish secondary school, often extended family see it as an affront to their culture (a sort of "they think they're better than us" mentality) and especially in the case of girls often attempt to physically remove them from formal education.

On the settled side the problem is that when this happens, there is rarely any follow up from the school (who are often happy enough to be rid of Travellers at the school anyway) or any attempt to enforce the child's right to an education by the State - because if anyone else tried to take a kid out of school before 12 Tulsa would rightly be all over it.

Also an element of fear, that there will likely be push back from the parents, and probable threats of violence

James Brown

They're not fond of people from counties different to their own either.

Gunmonkey

Foxhound38 wrote: »

What can be done here?

Three simple as feck steps, which have probably been mentioned already.

1) Stop pulling kids out of school at 10-11. No, it is not de evil Settled people forcing your kids out. No, your kids arent being bullied endlessly in schools for being Travellers (most peoples anecdotes would speak to quite the contrary). The Traveling Communities general lack of education is a self imposed negative, its not been forced onto them by de evil Settled people.

2) Stop the feuding. No, you are not being pitted against each other by de evil Settled people. No, it is not a "noble pursuit to defend you families honour", its stupid and pathetic. Most businesses would be more inclined to accept you if there wasnt the risk that any funeral/wedding/random encounter in a pub/on the street will devolve into a dozens large armed brawl. And an end to these s*shows means no more callouts and fist fights (which somehow never seem to resolve the feuds, as theres always seems to be another one!), no more pulling your sons out of school and into a boxing club to train to "defend the families honour" or whatever, which leads them to believe thuggery and violence is how to interact with everyone, feud or no.

3) Clean. Your. Goddam. Sites. Every halting site I have seen looks like a dump, rubbish everywhere, and every spot where caravans have pulled up for a few weeks is strewn with bags of crap once they leave. Most official dumps allow you to bring in trailers of rubbish and dump it, so even if de evil Settled rubbish collections wont go near you , you can still clean your own mess up. People would be more inclined to interact with you if your home didnt look like on of those after pics from a disaster struck area. And no, de evil Settled people are not sneaking into your halting sites in the middle of the night to dump their rubbish!

There, three things that can be done now to help curb the negative image of Travellers, all enforced on themselves by themselves. Im not going to get into criminality because thats a far more complex topic than "Just stop robbing stuff!" as numerous people from all backgrounds do it. But we all know none of it will happen as it requires self reflection and acceptance that all the Travellers ills aren't due to de evil racist scumbag Guberment/Guards/Settled people.

whisky_galore

Bowie wrote: »

They're not fond of people from counties different to their own either.

Or people related to them.
Not keen about their girls having sex outside marriage, ok for the lads though.
God help you if you're a traveller and gay.

All in all a very tolerant culture.

ThunbergsAreGo

The sky is blue