Taxing a van

jimbooth

Hi, I changed my van, first time in a few years and went to tax it today with goods declaration signed and stamped and they're looking for vat or revenue letters !

punisher5112

jimbooth wrote: »

Hi, I changed my van, first time in a few years and went to tax it today with goods declaration signed and stamped and they're looking for vat or revenue letters !

This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.

elperello

Do you use the van for your business?

Del2005

elperello wrote: »

Do you use the van for your business?

If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.

jimbooth

Del2005 wrote: »

If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.

A privately taxed vehicle cannot be used commercially ! Also insurance won't cover
Was going to start back working part time after some time off for medical issues. Need a van to do it though

listermint

punisher5112 wrote: »

This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.

You don't have to be vat registered to run a limited company.

listermint

jimbooth wrote: »

A privately taxed vehicle cannot be used commercially ! Also insurance won't cover
Was going to start back working part time after some time off for medical issues. Need a van to do it though

The systems a joke, but you'll always find zealots in motors forum.

punisher5112

listermint wrote: »

You don't have to be vat registered to run a limited company.

No you don't but you need to be registered with revenue. The vat thing is stupid to be honest.

jimbooth

punisher5112 wrote: »

This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.[/quote

To be vat registered your turnover has to be above a certain threshold, most small to medium businessess never reach anywhere near that threshold so putting that as a prerequisite is a bit stupid tbh.

How do other "ethnic" groups manage ? Pretty sure most of them aren't registered ?

listermint

punisher5112 wrote: »

No you don't but you need to be registered with revenue. The vat thing is stupid to be honest.

Everyone who works legally is registered with revenue.

elperello

jimbooth wrote: »

punisher5112 wrote: »

This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.[/quote

To be vat registered your turnover has to be above a certain threshold, most small to medium businessess never reach anywhere near that threshold so putting that as a prerequisite is a bit stupid tbh.

How do other "ethnic" groups manage ? Pretty sure most of them aren't registered ?

You don't need to be VAT registered but you will have to provide the tax documentation they are looking for.

If you look in your files from when you were last in business you may find what you are looking for.

If not contact revenue and look for updated registration.

punisher5112

listermint wrote: »

Everyone who works legally is registered with revenue.

Yes but not everyone falls under the part of using a commercial vehicle....
They got very strict, use to be do much easier.

Use to have pick ups and other 4x4s but it's just too much hassle now.

elperello

Del2005 wrote: »

If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.

The OP never mentioned using the van non commercially.

Del2005

elperello wrote: »

The OP never mentioned using the van non commercially.

I wasn't replying to the OP

Del2005

jimbooth wrote: »

A privately taxed vehicle cannot be used commercially ! Also insurance won't cover
Was going to start back working part time after some time off for medical issues. Need a van to do it though

Of course you can. You can't get private insurance for a commercial vehicle so you need to get commercial with social and domestic use. But if you have social and domestic use on your insurance policy you have lied on your commercial motor tax form.

Vestiapx

jimbooth wrote: »

punisher5112 wrote: »

This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.[/quote

To be vat registered your turnover has to be above a certain threshold, most small to medium businessess never reach anywhere near that threshold so putting that as a prerequisite is a bit stupid tbh.

How do other "ethnic" groups manage ? Pretty sure most of them aren't registered ?

I don't think it's true that "most small to medium businesses don't reach the vat thresholds."
Some trades might stay under but it is only €37,500 for services which is a tight enough income before expenses for a medium business or €75,000 for sales which is tiny. If you assume a 30 per cent margin which would be high that's only €25,000 before expenses.

There is no need to bring up another person's ethnicity to explain why you should be allowed tax a van commercially when you aren't a registered business.

punisher5112

Vestiapx wrote: »

jimbooth wrote: »

I don't think it's true that "most small to medium businesses don't reach the vat thresholds."
Some trades might stay under but it is only €37,500 for services which is a tight enough income before expenses for a medium business or €75,000 for sales which is tiny. If you assume a 30 per cent margin which would be high that's only €25,000 before expenses.

There is no need to bring up another person's ethnicity to explain why you should be allowed tax a van commercially when you aren't a registered business.

What are you quoting me for....

I didn't say one had to be vat registered but they do have to be registered as a company or for say farm use.

Cheensbo

Del2005 wrote: »

If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.

punisher5112 wrote: »

I didn't say one had to be vat registered but they do have to be registered as a company or for say farm use.

Neither of these posts are correct. Everytime these threads pop up the same mis truths get posted.

I do not have a business, or a farm, or a vat no. I have a ppsn, a job and have been taxing commercials for years with no issue -

Just fill in the form, get it stamped at a garda station and hand it in at the tax office with some money in exchange for a tax disc.

Crewcabs are different but that's not the question here.

jimbooth

Cheensbo wrote: »

Neither of these posts are correct. Everytime these threads pop up the same mis truths get posted.

I do not have a business, or a farm, or a vat no. I have a ppsn, a job and have been taxing commercials for years with no issue -

Just fill in the form, get it stamped at a garda station and hand it in at the tax office with some money in exchange for a tax disc.

Crewcabs are different but that's not the question here.

Tried that and was refused, will not accept just the goods declaration. Now need to prove registration of business with revenue.

unhappys10

jimbooth wrote: »

Tried that and was refused, will not accept just the goods declaration. Now need to prove registration of business with revenue.

Try a different tax office

tabby aspreme

jimbooth wrote: »

Tried that and was refused, will not accept just the goods declaration. Now need to prove registration of business with revenue.

The requests from different council offices are different, no consistency among them

punisher5112

Cheensbo wrote: »

Neither of these posts are correct. Everytime these threads pop up the same mis truths get posted.

I do not have a business, or a farm, or a vat no. I have a ppsn, a job and have been taxing commercials for years with no issue -

Just fill in the form, get it stamped at a garda station and hand it in at the tax office with some money in exchange for a tax disc.

Crewcabs are different but that's not the question here.

No you're wrong, just extremely lucky with the tax office you use.... They've come down hard on this and if you've had a van or pick up a long time they tend to just let you renew but when you get a new one or second hand they implement the complete law on it....

Cheensbo

punisher5112 wrote: »

No you're wrong, just extremely lucky with the tax office you use.... They've come down hard on this and if you've had a van or pick up a long time they tend to just let you renew but when you get a new one or second hand they implement the complete law on it....

Feck, well if it makes any odds - I use kildare coco in Naas and very recently taxed a new (to me) commercial with my usual info and no issues at all.

punisher5112

I use to bring in a lot from UK, never any issues till around 10 years ago now.... Since then impossible.

ELM327

Cheensbo wrote: »

Feck, well if it makes any odds - I use kildare coco in Naas and very recently taxed a new (to me) commercial with my usual info and no issues at all.

Kildare is very easy to tax commercials with just the goods declaration. I taxed a 5.7v8 5 seat pickup on the commercial rate with the goods declaration, while the truck was insured on classic insurance.


Other places are not. Meath (my current local tax office) is very stringent.

Cheensbo

ELM327 wrote: »

Kildare is very easy to tax commercials with just the goods declaration. I taxed a 5.7v8 5 seat pickup on the commercial rate with the goods declaration, while the truck was insured on classic insurance.


Other places are not. Meath (my current local tax office) is very stringent.

Sounds like the dinosaurs behind the counter more than anything, ah well, apologies to all for my incorrect info.

At least there's now one good thing about living in Kildare :pac:

unhappys10

punisher5112 wrote: »

I use to bring in a lot from UK, never any issues till around 10 years ago now.... Since then impossible.

Obviously not impossible if people are doing it. Depends on the office. My oul lad taxed a van, his first commercial, a couple of years ago with goods declaration form, no problems.
So, might be hard, but not impossible.

punisher5112

unhappys10 wrote: »

Obviously not impossible if people are doing it. Depends on the office. My oul lad taxed a van, his first commercial, a couple of years ago with goods declaration form, no problems.
So, might be hard, but not impossible.

Well impossible for me, wouldn't work. Gave up.

elperello

Del2005 wrote: »

I wasn't replying to the OP

I know that, you were replying to me.

Just on the matter of different local authorities requiring different documentation.

If you check the website of your local authority there will be a list of documentation required. If you produce that you will be ok.

If they are looking for VAT numbers and you are not VAT registered you have a problem.

I suggest that you take up the matter with a local councillor and see if they can do anything for you.

vandriver

Dublin City Council's website mentions nothing about VAT numbers.
You just need the goods declaration and proof that your insurance covers business use.

ELM327

vandriver wrote: »

Dublin City Council's website mentions nothing about VAT numbers.
You just need the goods declaration and proof that your insurance covers business use.

You need a VAT number for the goods declaration. Some people write their PPSN.


Other counties don't ask for the proof of insurance.

Cheensbo

ELM327 wrote: »

You need a VAT number for the goods declaration. Some people write their PPSN.


Other counties don't ask for the proof of insurance.

A sole traders Vat no. would be their PPSN too, so it would not be out of ordinary for a tax office to see one on the form.

elperello

ELM327 wrote: »

You need a VAT number for the goods declaration. Some people write their PPSN.


Other counties don't ask for the proof of insurance.

This is the rf 111a goods only declaration form -

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111A_en.pdf

No VAT number is required.

mgbgt1978

Vestiapx wrote: »

There is no need to bring up another person's ethnicity to explain why you should be allowed tax a van commercially when you aren't a registered business.

Why not ???
It's a perfectly valid question with regards to the issues raised in this thread.

jimbooth

Was given a list which I can't seem to attach
This is what is now required for first taxing of a commercial after purchase as of July 20 2020.
Rf111A
Certificate of insurance.
Logbook
CRW
Proof from Revenue, one of following,
Revenue notice of assessment dated last 12 months.

Revenue letter indicating you are registered for vat or registered as self employed.
P30 returns for previous 2 months.

Vat return for last quarter.

Tax clearance for Companies only. Individuals not accepted .

Herd or flock number not accepted.

Or proof from a company that you are using for them SOLELY for work purposes.
Company letter must be on official letterheaded paper with all company details including VAT no.
If not must provide a company invoice with Vat number on it..

elperello

jimbooth wrote: »

Was given a list which I can't seem to attach
This is what is now required for first taxing of a commercial after purchase as of July 20 2020.
Rf111A
Certificate of insurance.
Logbook
CRW
Proof from Revenue, one of following,
Revenue notice of assessment dated last 12 months.

Revenue letter indicating you are registered for vat or registered as self employed.
P30 returns for previous 2 months.

Vat return for last quarter.

Tax clearance for Companies only. Individuals not accepted .

Herd or flock number not accepted.

Or proof from a company that you are using for them SOLELY for work purposes.
Company letter must be on official letterheaded paper with all company details including VAT no.
If not must provide a company invoice with Vat number on it..

Thanks for that.

Which county council is it?

Your problem then is you have not had an assessment in the last 12 months?

jimbooth

elperello wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Which county council is it?

Your problem then is you have not had an assessment in the last 12 months?

Limerick CoCo.
Been out of work due to illness. Trying to get setup to start back.
Have insurance, Rf111a and CRW already.
Have registered but will take time to get documents so will have to now pay arrears on tax as it will run into next month and can't use the van till then either.
Bit of a pain in the ass tbh.

punisher5112

Sign it of the road?
Or is it too late for you to do so.

jimbooth

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Why not ???
It's a perfectly valid question with regards to the issues raised in this thread.

Spoke to a good friend of mine earlier who is a traveller and I asked him, he laughed at me and said " it's our culture boss !" 😄
He said they brought all this in originally to stop them from using vans and they just said it was discrimination so now they don't ask for documentation from them other than insurance and test !

jimbooth

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sign it of the road?
Or is it too late for you to do so.

Too late in the month unfortunately.

mgbgt1978

jimbooth wrote: »

Limerick CoCo.
Been out of work due to illness. Trying to get setup to start back.

Ah. Limerick. That would have been in my top 3 guesses.
Living in the County myself and up until 7 or 8 years ago I could tax a Commercial with just a Flock Number. Then they totally changed tack and now demand more proof of business than most other Counties. A bit ridiculous that each County can look for different criteria.

jimbooth

List

jimbooth

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Ah. Limerick. That would have been in my top 3 guesses.
Living in the County myself and up until 7 or 8 years ago I could tax a Commercial with just a Flock Number. Then they totally changed tack and now demand more proof of business than most other Counties. A bit ridiculous that each County can look for different criteria.

I know, last time I changed my van in 2013 all I needed was goods declaration.
A buddy in Dublin taxed his new (second hand) van on Monday with no issues, just Crw, insurance and goods declaration !
No mention of revenue?

elperello

jimbooth wrote: »

Limerick CoCo.
Been out of work due to illness. Trying to get setup to start back.
Have insurance, Rf111a and CRW already.
Have registered but will take time to get documents so will have to now pay arrears on tax as it will run into next month and can't use the van till then either.
Bit of a pain in the ass tbh.

Absolutely, you would think that they would be doing their best to help people trying to get a business going.

rodneys

In a similar situation at the min.
Thinking of just taxing it privately but not sure how that'll work out work wise.
Only working part time freelance with some local builders so not registered and no specific employer.

punisher5112

rodneys wrote: »

In a similar situation at the min.
Thinking of just taxing it privately but not sure how that'll work out work wise.
Only working part time freelance with some local builders so not registered and no specific employer.

It will be on cc rate.

jimbooth

Would love to know how different authorities have different requirements to tax a commercial .
Some only request Goods declaration, Crvt and insurance ! No mention of revenue.

elperello

jimbooth wrote: »

Would love to know how different authorities have different requirements to tax a commercial .
Some only request Goods declaration, Crvt and insurance ! No mention of revenue.

It's what happens when you give autonomy to local Directors of Services.

It should be standardised across all Tax Offices so that there is a level playing field regardless of where you are based.

Once you have done the first taxation after purchase you can go online for renewals.

Borrowed time

Meath County Council look for all the documents.Changed my van last year and was expecting them not to tax it Commercially as I had no VAT no.Never asked for one, amazed.Think it depends on who is dealing with you.

mycro89

Hey Folks,

I know that this thread is to do with taxing vans, but I have another question for ye regarding van insurance. I am looking to getting a van for private use instead of my car, and taxing it as a private vechicle and all is grand, until I looked into the Insurance. Is there any policy or company out there that will Insure a small van as a private vechicle which would allow me to drive private cars on my own policy (the van policy)?

jimbooth

mycro89 wrote: »

Hey Folks,

I know that this thread is to do with taxing vans, but I have another question for ye regarding van insurance. I am looking to getting a van for private use instead of my car, and taxing it as a private vechicle and all is grand, until I looked into the Insurance. Is there any policy or company out there that will Insure a small van as a private vechicle which would allow me to drive private cars on my own policy (the van policy)?

Brokers are the best to ask this, Insurance on commercials generally only applies to commercials and cannot transfer to private vehicles.
Maybe a trade policy would suit better if you're planning on chopping and changing vehicles?