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Taxing a van

  • 18-08-2020 9:37pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭


    Hi, I changed my van, first time in a few years and went to tax it today with goods declaration signed and stamped and they're looking for vat or revenue letters !


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Hi, I changed my van, first time in a few years and went to tax it today with goods declaration signed and stamped and they're looking for vat or revenue letters !

    This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Do you use the van for your business?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    elperello wrote: »
    Do you use the van for your business?

    If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    Del2005 wrote: »
    If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.

    A privately taxed vehicle cannot be used commercially ! Also insurance won't cover
    Was going to start back working part time after some time off for medical issues. Need a van to do it though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,182 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.

    You don't have to be vat registered to run a limited company.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,182 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    jimbooth wrote: »
    A privately taxed vehicle cannot be used commercially ! Also insurance won't cover
    Was going to start back working part time after some time off for medical issues. Need a van to do it though

    The systems a joke, but you'll always find zealots in motors forum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    listermint wrote: »
    You don't have to be vat registered to run a limited company.

    No you don't but you need to be registered with revenue. The vat thing is stupid to be honest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.[/quote

    To be vat registered your turnover has to be above a certain threshold, most small to medium businessess never reach anywhere near that threshold so putting that as a prerequisite is a bit stupid tbh.

    How do other "ethnic" groups manage ? Pretty sure most of them aren't registered ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,182 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    No you don't but you need to be registered with revenue. The vat thing is stupid to be honest.

    Everyone who works legally is registered with revenue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    jimbooth wrote: »
    This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.[/quote

    To be vat registered your turnover has to be above a certain threshold, most small to medium businessess never reach anywhere near that threshold so putting that as a prerequisite is a bit stupid tbh.

    How do other "ethnic" groups manage ? Pretty sure most of them aren't registered ?

    You don't need to be VAT registered but you will have to provide the tax documentation they are looking for.

    If you look in your files from when you were last in business you may find what you are looking for.

    If not contact revenue and look for updated registration.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    listermint wrote: »
    Everyone who works legally is registered with revenue.

    Yes but not everyone falls under the part of using a commercial vehicle....
    They got very strict, use to be do much easier.

    Use to have pick ups and other 4x4s but it's just too much hassle now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Del2005 wrote: »
    If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.

    The OP never mentioned using the van non commercially.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    elperello wrote: »
    The OP never mentioned using the van non commercially.

    I wasn't replying to the OP


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    jimbooth wrote: »
    A privately taxed vehicle cannot be used commercially ! Also insurance won't cover
    Was going to start back working part time after some time off for medical issues. Need a van to do it though

    Of course you can. You can't get private insurance for a commercial vehicle so you need to get commercial with social and domestic use. But if you have social and domestic use on your insurance policy you have lied on your commercial motor tax form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    jimbooth wrote: »
    This is the case for years... If you're not registered you will have to tax it private, works off the cc rate.[/quote

    To be vat registered your turnover has to be above a certain threshold, most small to medium businessess never reach anywhere near that threshold so putting that as a prerequisite is a bit stupid tbh.

    How do other "ethnic" groups manage ? Pretty sure most of them aren't registered ?

    I don't think it's true that "most small to medium businesses don't reach the vat thresholds."
    Some trades might stay under but it is only €37,500 for services which is a tight enough income before expenses for a medium business or €75,000 for sales which is tiny. If you assume a 30 per cent margin which would be high that's only €25,000 before expenses.

    There is no need to bring up another person's ethnicity to explain why you should be allowed tax a van commercially when you aren't a registered business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    jimbooth wrote: »

    I don't think it's true that "most small to medium businesses don't reach the vat thresholds."
    Some trades might stay under but it is only €37,500 for services which is a tight enough income before expenses for a medium business or €75,000 for sales which is tiny. If you assume a 30 per cent margin which would be high that's only €25,000 before expenses.

    There is no need to bring up another person's ethnicity to explain why you should be allowed tax a van commercially when you aren't a registered business.

    What are you quoting me for....

    I didn't say one had to be vat registered but they do have to be registered as a company or for say farm use.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    Del2005 wrote: »
    If you use it non commercially then it doesn't matter if you also use it for a business it should be taxed privately.


    I didn't say one had to be vat registered but they do have to be registered as a company or for say farm use.



    Neither of these posts are correct. :confused: Everytime these threads pop up the same mis truths get posted.

    I do not have a business, or a farm, or a vat no. I have a ppsn, a job and have been taxing commercials for years with no issue -

    Just fill in the form, get it stamped at a garda station and hand it in at the tax office with some money in exchange for a tax disc.

    Crewcabs are different but that's not the question here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    Neither of these posts are correct. :confused: Everytime these threads pop up the same mis truths get posted.

    I do not have a business, or a farm, or a vat no. I have a ppsn, a job and have been taxing commercials for years with no issue -

    Just fill in the form, get it stamped at a garda station and hand it in at the tax office with some money in exchange for a tax disc.

    Crewcabs are different but that's not the question here.

    Tried that and was refused, will not accept just the goods declaration. Now need to prove registration of business with revenue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Tried that and was refused, will not accept just the goods declaration. Now need to prove registration of business with revenue.

    Try a different tax office


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Tried that and was refused, will not accept just the goods declaration. Now need to prove registration of business with revenue.

    The requests from different council offices are different, no consistency among them


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    Neither of these posts are correct. :confused: Everytime these threads pop up the same mis truths get posted.

    I do not have a business, or a farm, or a vat no. I have a ppsn, a job and have been taxing commercials for years with no issue -

    Just fill in the form, get it stamped at a garda station and hand it in at the tax office with some money in exchange for a tax disc.

    Crewcabs are different but that's not the question here.

    No you're wrong, just extremely lucky with the tax office you use.... They've come down hard on this and if you've had a van or pick up a long time they tend to just let you renew but when you get a new one or second hand they implement the complete law on it....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    No you're wrong, just extremely lucky with the tax office you use.... They've come down hard on this and if you've had a van or pick up a long time they tend to just let you renew but when you get a new one or second hand they implement the complete law on it....

    Feck, well if it makes any odds - I use kildare coco in Naas and very recently taxed a new (to me) commercial with my usual info and no issues at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I use to bring in a lot from UK, never any issues till around 10 years ago now.... Since then impossible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,908 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    Feck, well if it makes any odds - I use kildare coco in Naas and very recently taxed a new (to me) commercial with my usual info and no issues at all.
    Kildare is very easy to tax commercials with just the goods declaration. I taxed a 5.7v8 5 seat pickup on the commercial rate with the goods declaration, while the truck was insured on classic insurance.


    Other places are not. Meath (my current local tax office) is very stringent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Kildare is very easy to tax commercials with just the goods declaration. I taxed a 5.7v8 5 seat pickup on the commercial rate with the goods declaration, while the truck was insured on classic insurance.


    Other places are not. Meath (my current local tax office) is very stringent.


    Sounds like the dinosaurs behind the counter more than anything, ah well, apologies to all for my incorrect info.

    At least there's now one good thing about living in Kildare :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭unhappys10


    I use to bring in a lot from UK, never any issues till around 10 years ago now.... Since then impossible.

    Obviously not impossible if people are doing it. Depends on the office. My oul lad taxed a van, his first commercial, a couple of years ago with goods declaration form, no problems.
    So, might be hard, but not impossible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    Obviously not impossible if people are doing it. Depends on the office. My oul lad taxed a van, his first commercial, a couple of years ago with goods declaration form, no problems.
    So, might be hard, but not impossible.

    Well impossible for me, wouldn't work. Gave up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Del2005 wrote: »
    I wasn't replying to the OP

    I know that, you were replying to me.

    Just on the matter of different local authorities requiring different documentation.

    If you check the website of your local authority there will be a list of documentation required. If you produce that you will be ok.

    If they are looking for VAT numbers and you are not VAT registered you have a problem.

    I suggest that you take up the matter with a local councillor and see if they can do anything for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭vandriver


    Dublin City Council's website mentions nothing about VAT numbers.
    You just need the goods declaration and proof that your insurance covers business use.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,908 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    vandriver wrote: »
    Dublin City Council's website mentions nothing about VAT numbers.
    You just need the goods declaration and proof that your insurance covers business use.
    You need a VAT number for the goods declaration. Some people write their PPSN.


    Other counties don't ask for the proof of insurance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You need a VAT number for the goods declaration. Some people write their PPSN.


    Other counties don't ask for the proof of insurance.

    A sole traders Vat no. would be their PPSN too, so it would not be out of ordinary for a tax office to see one on the form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You need a VAT number for the goods declaration. Some people write their PPSN.


    Other counties don't ask for the proof of insurance.

    This is the rf 111a goods only declaration form -

    https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF111A_en.pdf

    No VAT number is required.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    There is no need to bring up another person's ethnicity to explain why you should be allowed tax a van commercially when you aren't a registered business.


    Why not ???
    It's a perfectly valid question with regards to the issues raised in this thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    Was given a list which I can't seem to attach
    This is what is now required for first taxing of a commercial after purchase as of July 20 2020.
    Rf111A
    Certificate of insurance.
    Logbook
    CRW
    Proof from Revenue, one of following,
    Revenue notice of assessment dated last 12 months.

    Revenue letter indicating you are registered for vat or registered as self employed.
    P30 returns for previous 2 months.

    Vat return for last quarter.

    Tax clearance for Companies only. Individuals not accepted .

    Herd or flock number not accepted.

    Or proof from a company that you are using for them SOLELY for work purposes.
    Company letter must be on official letterheaded paper with all company details including VAT no.
    If not must provide a company invoice with Vat number on it..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Was given a list which I can't seem to attach
    This is what is now required for first taxing of a commercial after purchase as of July 20 2020.
    Rf111A
    Certificate of insurance.
    Logbook
    CRW
    Proof from Revenue, one of following,
    Revenue notice of assessment dated last 12 months.

    Revenue letter indicating you are registered for vat or registered as self employed.
    P30 returns for previous 2 months.

    Vat return for last quarter.

    Tax clearance for Companies only. Individuals not accepted .

    Herd or flock number not accepted.

    Or proof from a company that you are using for them SOLELY for work purposes.
    Company letter must be on official letterheaded paper with all company details including VAT no.
    If not must provide a company invoice with Vat number on it..

    Thanks for that.

    Which county council is it?

    Your problem then is you have not had an assessment in the last 12 months?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    elperello wrote: »
    Thanks for that.

    Which county council is it?

    Your problem then is you have not had an assessment in the last 12 months?

    Limerick CoCo.
    Been out of work due to illness. Trying to get setup to start back.
    Have insurance, Rf111a and CRW already.
    Have registered but will take time to get documents so will have to now pay arrears on tax as it will run into next month and can't use the van till then either.
    Bit of a pain in the ass tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Sign it of the road?
    Or is it too late for you to do so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    Why not ???
    It's a perfectly valid question with regards to the issues raised in this thread.

    Spoke to a good friend of mine earlier who is a traveller and I asked him, he laughed at me and said " it's our culture boss !" 😄
    He said they brought all this in originally to stop them from using vans and they just said it was discrimination so now they don't ask for documentation from them other than insurance and test !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    Sign it of the road?
    Or is it too late for you to do so.
    Too late in the month unfortunately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Limerick CoCo.
    Been out of work due to illness. Trying to get setup to start back.
    Ah. Limerick. That would have been in my top 3 guesses.
    Living in the County myself and up until 7 or 8 years ago I could tax a Commercial with just a Flock Number. Then they totally changed tack and now demand more proof of business than most other Counties. A bit ridiculous that each County can look for different criteria.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    List


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    Ah. Limerick. That would have been in my top 3 guesses.
    Living in the County myself and up until 7 or 8 years ago I could tax a Commercial with just a Flock Number. Then they totally changed tack and now demand more proof of business than most other Counties. A bit ridiculous that each County can look for different criteria.

    I know, last time I changed my van in 2013 all I needed was goods declaration.
    A buddy in Dublin taxed his new (second hand) van on Monday with no issues, just Crw, insurance and goods declaration !
    No mention of revenue?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Limerick CoCo.
    Been out of work due to illness. Trying to get setup to start back.
    Have insurance, Rf111a and CRW already.
    Have registered but will take time to get documents so will have to now pay arrears on tax as it will run into next month and can't use the van till then either.
    Bit of a pain in the ass tbh.

    Absolutely, you would think that they would be doing their best to help people trying to get a business going.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭rodneys


    In a similar situation at the min.
    Thinking of just taxing it privately but not sure how that'll work out work wise.
    Only working part time freelance with some local builders so not registered and no specific employer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    rodneys wrote: »
    In a similar situation at the min.
    Thinking of just taxing it privately but not sure how that'll work out work wise.
    Only working part time freelance with some local builders so not registered and no specific employer.

    It will be on cc rate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    Would love to know how different authorities have different requirements to tax a commercial .
    Some only request Goods declaration, Crvt and insurance ! No mention of revenue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,627 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    jimbooth wrote: »
    Would love to know how different authorities have different requirements to tax a commercial .
    Some only request Goods declaration, Crvt and insurance ! No mention of revenue.

    It's what happens when you give autonomy to local Directors of Services.

    It should be standardised across all Tax Offices so that there is a level playing field regardless of where you are based.

    Once you have done the first taxation after purchase you can go online for renewals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Borrowed time


    Meath County Council look for all the documents.Changed my van last year and was expecting them not to tax it Commercially as I had no VAT no.Never asked for one, amazed.Think it depends on who is dealing with you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭mycro89


    Hey Folks,

    I know that this thread is to do with taxing vans, but I have another question for ye regarding van insurance. I am looking to getting a van for private use instead of my car, and taxing it as a private vechicle and all is grand, until I looked into the Insurance. Is there any policy or company out there that will Insure a small van as a private vechicle which would allow me to drive private cars on my own policy (the van policy)?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭jimbooth


    mycro89 wrote: »
    Hey Folks,

    I know that this thread is to do with taxing vans, but I have another question for ye regarding van insurance. I am looking to getting a van for private use instead of my car, and taxing it as a private vechicle and all is grand, until I looked into the Insurance. Is there any policy or company out there that will Insure a small van as a private vechicle which would allow me to drive private cars on my own policy (the van policy)?

    Brokers are the best to ask this, Insurance on commercials generally only applies to commercials and cannot transfer to private vehicles.
    Maybe a trade policy would suit better if you're planning on chopping and changing vehicles?


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