electric tractor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClNdrJRan5k

Electric tractors.

seems like a nice thing to have in the yard.
They'll get bigger and more powerful.

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClNdrJRan5k

Electric tractors.

seems like a nice thing to have in the yard.
They'll get bigger and more powerful.

Hybrid versions more realistic.
No complicated gearboxes
No clutch
A lot less to go wrong.
Almost 100 %torque at low revs.

I disagree. On a larger farm the smaller of two or more tractors can afford to be Electric.
Cheaper batteries can be used for Tractor. Weight is not a big issue for a Tractor.
If you have plenty of rooves you will be harvesting your own fuel and then selling the remainder to the grid.

Panch18

Hydrogen the way forward I reckon

Say my name

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClNdrJRan5k

Electric tractors.

seems like a nice thing to have in the yard.
They'll get bigger and more powerful.

And here was me hoping it had an aluminium - seawater - air, battery.

Panch18

Panch18 wrote: »

Hydrogen the way forward I reckon

Smallest atom in existence will always find a leak and will explode, not burn.

patsy_mccabe

I wondered how long before there was one on the market. Electric vehicles are a joke unless the electrical power to begin with is generated greenly. Transmitting power over long distances too uses power. Solar panels locally on the farm would be ideal.

Panch18

Deleted User wrote: »

Smallest atom in existence will always find a leak and will explode, not burn.

There are loads of hydrogen vehicles around the world - and that number is going to increase rapidly in the next decade. Buses, trucks and even trains are now going hydrogen

And on the tractor front New holland already have significant work done on hydrogen

Mooooo

Jcb already have electric mini diggers, weidemann have small electric attic loaders. However with a share of them they need 8 hours charging for limited hours of work. NH have hydrogen powered tractors developed alright.
They may work for on farmyard jobs, feeding etc but power hungry jobs in fields or contractors harvesting, planting etc it is a long way from being anyway suitable, particularly with the cost involved

Suckler

Panch18 wrote: »

There are loads of hydrogen vehicles around the world - and that number is going to increase rapidly in the next decade. Buses, trucks and even trains are now going hydrogen

And on the tractor front New holland already have significant work done on hydrogen

From what I remember about hydrogen; it is dangerous to store and move/deliver. Prohibitively expensive to make (this may have changed recently). The amount of energy required to make the fuel is also inefficient. Open to correction on these.

Reggie.

Suckler wrote: »

From what I remember about hydrogen; it is dangerous to store and move/deliver. Prohibitively expensive to make (this may have changed recently). The amount of energy required to make the fuel is also inefficient. Open to correction on these.

No more harder to store or deliver than diesel or petrol

Suckler

Reggie. wrote: »

No more harder to store or deliver than diesel or petrol

From a volatility perspective when delivering it is. maybe is ?? from what I recall.

tractorporn

Suckler wrote: »

From what I remember about hydrogen; it is dangerous to store and move/deliver. Prohibitively expensive to make (this may have changed recently). The amount of energy required to make the fuel is also inefficient. Open to correction on these.

Honda have made a significant breakthrough recently which has seen the efficiency of making/harvesting the hydrogen increase substantially. This should start seeing move investment and development of more hydrogen cells.

we'll find ourselves in the perverse situation where hydrogen will be released from hydrocarbons because it is the cheapest way to produce/extract it. That is what will happen in the U.S. at least.

Reggie.

Suckler wrote: »

From a volatility perspective when delivering it is. maybe is ?? from what I recall.

I was listening to an interview about this very thing and the experts reckon any heavy plant would have to go hydrogen as eletric wouldnt cut it. Someone rang in with that argument that such vehicles would be mini bombs waiting to go off and the experts claimed they are no more dangerous than current fuels in every way

NcdJd

Reggie. wrote: »

I was listening to an interview about this very thing and the experts reckon any heavy plant would have to go hydrogen as eletric wouldnt cut it. Someone rang in with that argument that such vehicles would be mini bombs waiting to go off and the experts claimed they are no more dangerous than current fuels in every way

They should just stick to diesel for heavy machinery and tractors. I'll get lynched for that but I have my doubts about how green it is running things on batteries that eventually have to be dumped somewhere. Hydrogen is the way to go when the technology advances allows. Even them small tractor fendt and farmtrac have out, would they run a pto pump for 12 hours if your irrigating crops?

As far as I'm concerned these tractors are aimed at County councils and lads that would only be using them for light work a couple of hours a day. The battery packs still have a limited life and basically throw away engines and buying a new one unlike tractors that are still running 40 / 50 years later.

To add diesel engines will be around for a very long time.

Nekarsulm

I think Diesel/Electric will be the intermediate step.
Caterpillar have been building electric drive dozers for nearly ten years, and are bringing out a new range in 2021 which they predict will be a "30 year design"
Has to be the way forward, and far less things to go wrong than inside a Vario transmission...

Timmaay

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I wondered how long before there was one on the market. Electric vehicles are a joke unless the electrical power to begin with is generated greenly. Transmitting power over long distances too uses power. Solar panels locally on the farm would be ideal.

Agreed fully. EVs only have the potential to be greener if the electricity used to power them is also green. I'd happily have any sort of electric vehicle, either car or tractor from the economic point of view (significantly lower running costs and more reliable etc), however absolutely no point kidding yourself about the green point of view.

Tonynewholland

Anyone watch Planet of humans It’s interesting to say the least.

_Brian

We’re at a hard time in the evolution of these new technologies.

The greener among the population see the “potential” and so want traditionally fuelled vehicles thrown aside.

But the technology is at such an infantile stage that it is impractical in all but 10% of current applications.

Unless we see some evolutionary breakthrough in alternative energy and it’s affordability we are looking at decades of carbon fuel usage ahead, something some people just can’t accept.

Nekarsulm

_Brian wrote: »

Unless we see some evolutionary breakthrough in alternative energy and it’s affordability we are looking at decades of carbon fuel usage ahead, something some people just can’t accept.

Agreed, if we are to have 100% electric vehicles, then we need either conventional nuclear power, or a breakthrough in "Cold fusion".

_Brian

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Agreed, if we are to have 100% electric vehicles, then we need either conventional nuclear power, or a breakthrough in "Cold fusion".

This is going to sound daft but what we need is a breakthrough in computing first.

Humans evolve ideas too slowly unless we stumble onto a new solution accidentally, which in the case of energy may be a dangerous thing for us all.

If we can break properly into quantum computing rather than traditional silicon based computing we are a step towards decent artificial intelligence which can surpass our ability to develop new technology on all fronts including energy.

In my mind that’s the next step forward for humans.

Think how the invention of the IC “integrated circuit” has revolutionised our existence in 50 years. The potential increase in computing from quantum state computing has the potential to surpass that multiple times over.

NcdJd

When I posted that diesel engines will be around for a long time, what i mean is if you look at a modern datacentre. They have multiple power feeds coming into their locations for redundancy. The have rooms of battery storage which is basically big uninterruptable power supplies which one of their functions is to keep the servers and network equipment powered up until the diesel generators fire up to take over. In the situation when there is a power fault you need diesel generator back up. I think diesel engines will have their place for years to come.

Timmaay

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Agreed, if we are to have 100% electric vehicles, then we need either conventional nuclear power, or a breakthrough in "Cold fusion".

Cold fusion is a dead duck, largely impossible and should never of got any light of day. However small scale fusion is getting more and more attention, and its hopefully actually only 20yrs away from commercialisation (I say actually because the running joke the last 70 yrs is we are only 30 yrs away from it lol). In terms of conventional nuclear, the big current hurdle is the crazy up front capital costs, it basically takes a min of 20yrs for any nuclear plants to break even, so in particular governments of developing countries would be stone mad to take on this risk which would only allow them to develop one power plant, against the likes of throwing in half a dozen gas or conventional power plants, which will help their country come out of poverty alot faster. Will the more developed countries be happy to take on the risk of more nuclear power plants is an interesting question, at the minute they certainly are not and we are seeing old nuclear plants being replaced instead with gas or renewables.

NcdJd

Bring back horses. Problem solved ha.

patsy_mccabe

Cheap energy creates it's own problems. It would lead to further use of cheap fertilisers to grow even more food and further increase the human population.

_Brian

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Cheap energy creates it's own problems. It would lead to further use of cheap fertilisers to grow even more food and further increase the human population.

It would destabilise the status quo of power which would lead to more conflict.

I expect large oil companies and OPEC are strangling the emergence of new technologies to retain their power.

Panch18

_Brian wrote: »

This is going to sound daft but what we need is a breakthrough in computing first.

Humans evolve ideas too slowly unless we stumble onto a new solution accidentally, which in the case of energy may be a dangerous thing for us all.

If we can break properly into quantum computing rather than traditional silicon based computing we are a step towards decent artificial intelligence which can surpass our ability to develop new technology on all fronts including energy.

In my mind that’s the next step forward for humans.

Think how the invention of the IC “integrated circuit” has revolutionised our existence in 50 years. The potential increase in computing from quantum state computing has the potential to surpass that multiple times over.

Hmm - sounds more like the destruction of humanity more so than the saving of it

Suckler

_Brian wrote: »

I expect large oil companies and OPEC are strangling the emergence of new technologies to retain their power.

There was a good documentary film "Who killed the Electric car" I saw about 10-15 years ago; A guy(his company) had made massive leaps in battery technology. The large US Auto firms bought him out along with patents and made sure progress was halted and the technology didn't really see the light of day again.

The biggest strides we made in the last 100 years were down to significant wars; the need for the latest tech drove governments to throw huge sums of money at the projects. WW1-WW2-Cold war/space race saw huge leaps that fed the 90's/00's developments we see as basic today.

Say my name

Suckler wrote: »

There was a good documentary film "Who killed the Electric car" I saw about 10-15 years ago; A guy(his company) had made massive leaps in battery technology. The large US Auto firms bought him out along with patents and made sure progress was halted and the technology didn't really see the light of day again.

The biggest strides we made in the last 100 years were down to significant wars; the need for the latest tech drove governments to throw huge sums of money at the projects. WW1-WW2-Cold war/space race saw huge leaps that fed the 90's/00's developments we see as basic today.

There's a British navy engineer with yonks of experience of navy batteries, bought out what was left of the Austin car company with the intention of developing electric cars and vans.
I'm not sure how far he got into developing a prototype though.
I wouldn't mind owning an Austin A60 electric van.:D

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/20/uk-man-invents-aluminum-air-battery-in-his-garage/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

Suckler

Say my name wrote: »

There's a British navy engineer with yonks of experience of navy batteries, bought out what was left of the Austin car company with the intention of developing electric cars and vans.
I'm not sure how far he got into developing a prototype though.
I wouldn't mind owning an Austin A60 electric van.:D

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/20/uk-man-invents-aluminum-air-battery-in-his-garage/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html

really interesting stuff he's working on!
https://cloverly.com/blog/amazing-new-battery-has-just-one-little-problem/

Say my name

Suckler wrote: »

really interesting stuff he's working on!
https://cloverly.com/blog/amazing-new-battery-has-just-one-little-problem/

It's basically a bigger version of a seawater cokecan powerplant.

Ion exchange.

ganmo

https://youtu.be/hMOkFqN1tC8
JD did their sums and figured that it was pointless looking at batteries due to the weight required for a full days use so they developed the above.
It would have its uses but the risk of cutting the cable would turn a few ppl off

funkey_monkey

The problem with batteries is the need for lithium. Batteries are really only a short term solution until something environmentally more clean comes along. Yes, it may be better than an ICE, but it is not a long term solution.

I've always hoped that synfuel would get a push and if so, then curent vehicles would remain operable. That would have a significant saving on energy usage if these did not need to be replaced by electric equivalents.
However, time is running out for them to get to market before governments make their strategies into policies.

Reggie.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

The problem with batteries is the need for lithium. Batteries are really only a short term solution until something environmentally more clean comes along. Yes, it may be better than an ICE, but it is not a long term solution.

I've always hoped that synfuel would get a push and if so, then curent vehicles would remain operable. That would have a significant saving on energy usage if these did not need to be replaced by electric equivalents.
However, time is running out for them to get to market before governments make their strategies into policies.

Common sense rarely makes it into government policy you just have to look at the space shuttle for that one

Water John

Interesting thread, the density of present batteries is one key limitation. A lot of research is ongoing. Syntethic diesel can be made but it would be much more expensive.
Volvo did a prototype of a loader. It worked well and actually did the work of the next one up in their model range. It did 4 hours continuous work. I think it probably lot a good while to recharge. John Deere also have done prototypes.

richie123

Water John wrote: »

Interesting thread, the density of present batteries is one key limitation. A lot of research is ongoing. Syntethic diesel can be made but it would be much more expensive.
Volvo did a prototype of a loader. It worked well and actually did the work of the next one up in their model range. It did 4 hours continuous work. I think it probably lot a good while to recharge. John Deere also have done prototypes.

What I would love is the electric/hybrid job.
An engine generator drives 4 in wheel electric motors .
Elec motors are 10 times more reliable and less costly to service.
No complicated gearboxes.no clutch.no diff locks.
PTO is also a seperate motor and implements run electrically.
Do away with backend oil and oil pipes fullstop.
Steyr produced one recently but it's still very much in its infancy

Neddyusa

ganmo wrote: »

https://youtu.be/hMOkFqN1tC8
JD did their sums and figured that it was pointless looking at batteries due to the weight required for a full days use so they developed the above.
It would have its uses but the risk of cutting the cable would turn a few ppl off

Now we're talkin!
Obviously that cable tractor has many limitations but it's way more commercially feasible than a battery powered tractor

emaherx

I could see a market for tractors capable of running continuously for 5 hours on batteries especially if power is being generated on the farm. Would be well capabale of most tasks on the majority of farms and run times will improve in time.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/fully-electric-swiss-tractor-is-now-a-reality/

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/100-electric-tractor-from-fendt-runs-for-5-continuous-hours/

Water John

We have had 48v battery forklift trucks around for a long time. We really love our battery impact drills, just swapping when the battery's empty. We're not far away.