Sinn Fein Omerta

Pintman Paddy Losty

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-witness-consulted-party-over-aaron-brady-case-before-speaking-to-garda%C3%AD-1.4332502

Very strange case here. A witness in a murder trial of a member of AGS refused to speak to police without first checking with the powers that be in Sinn Fein.

That's not normal behaviour for a political party. That's how criminal organisations like the Mafia operate.

Anyone else think this is disgraceful carry on?

KevRossi

Well if he values his kneecaps, then it was the correct course of action.

seamus

Par for the course. Anyone who thinks that Sinn Féin and the IRA aren't still joined at the hip, is an idiot.

It's well known that if you need to "confer" with any part of the IRA, you have a chat with a local Sinn Féin TD who can arrange it.

I expect in this case, the witness needed to know what he was and wasn't allowed to say.

blanch152

seamus wrote: »

Par for the course. Anyone who thinks that Sinn Féin and the IRA aren't still joined at the hip, is an idiot.

It's well known that if you need to "confer" with any part of the IRA, you have a chat with a local Sinn Féin TD who can arrange it.

I expect in this case, the witness needed to know what he was and wasn't allowed to say.

Probably checking whether the criminal was in good standing with Sinn Fein or not.

enricoh

Organise a protest March in crossmaglen Paddy , sod internet outage -
let us know how you get on and that you haven't gone missing!!

IAMAMORON

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

jimgoose

Of course it is, a pure solid disgrace and these animals should be dragged out of government buildings by the head of hair. But what do we expect at this stage?

JohnnyFlash

blanch152 wrote: »

Probably checking whether the criminal was in good standing with Sinn Fein or not.

‘Is that our diesel washing operation’?

Augme

It really highlights how awful FF/G are when Sinn Fein are viewed as the best alternative. Maybe if they didn't consistently make such a mess of things so often this wouldn'tt be the case.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Might be a while before the resident shinners post here. They probably need to check in with HQ for the party line .

JohnnyFlash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Might be a while before the resident shinners post here. They probably need to check in with HQ for the party line .

How could these lowlifes ever be allowed hold the justice portfolio in government?

EmmetSpiceland

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Might be a while before the resident shinners post here. They probably need to check in with HQ for the party line .

Are they not, currently, “under orders” to step back from “engaging”, P?

JohnnyFlash

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Are they not, currently, “under orders” to step back from “engaging”, P?

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1294938686933655553?s=21

statesaver

The are not a normal political party.

It was amazing the vote they got in the last general election and to me they are a frightening prospect in any future government.

suicide_circus

Nothing to see here!

Mary Lou for Chief of Sta...I mean Taoiseach!!

McGinniesta

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

This always makes me smile.

The whole reason the special criminal court was set up is to help stop jury tampering. They handle organised crime and terrorist cases specifically.

maccored

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Might be a while before the resident shinners post here. They probably need to check in with HQ for the party line .

no - though I admit, this whole thing is a bit weird. Im a member of SF and I would never think of asking SF anything before going to the gards so it puzzles me why yer man thought he should

EmmetSpiceland

maccored wrote: »

no - though I admit, this whole thing is a bit weird. Im a member of SF and I would never think of asking SF anything before going to the gards so it puzzles me why yer man thought he should

Either way, he must have been a, fairly, low level “grunt” for them to give the go ahead to send him down.

JohnnyFlash

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Either way, he must have been a, fairly, low level “grunt” for them to give the go ahead to send him down.

What’s going to be the more interesting story is who the TD contacted for advice on the matter.

IAMAMORON

maccored wrote: »

no - though I admit, this whole thing is a bit weird. Im a member of SF and I would never think of asking SF anything before going to the gards so it puzzles me why yer man thought he should

I hope you got permission from the Ard Comhairle before posting here?

I would hate to see members dragging the parties' good name and reputation through the dirt, not fair on upstanding members who haven't a rashers what they're really voting for?

Ducky air law etc etc , up the republic and all that yeh?

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

'Honest politicians'?

Every tribunal, inquiry and investigation (and we have had many many many of them) that ever was, seen politicians hiding behind barristers, points of law and their respective party lines.
A FG minister gets found to have taken bribes...what happens...'ah sure, take a back seat there and if we need you to keep us in power we'll give you a shout.

Don't make me laugh here.

Here is what happened with the Brady case...SF say they will do anything necessary to get justice for the family. A nervous witness comes forward and SF hand Gardai the 'break' they need in the case. Am I missing anything?

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Honest politicians'?

Every tribunal, inquiry and investigation (and we have had many many many of them) that ever was, seen politicians hiding behind barristers, points of law and their respective party lines.
A FG minister gets found to have taken bribes...what happens...'ah sure, take a back seat there and if we need you to keep us in power we'll give you a shout.

Don't make me laugh here.

Here is what happened with the Brady case...SF say they will do anything necessary to get justice for the family. A nervous witness comes forward and SF hand Gardai the 'break' they need in the case. Am I missing anything?

Kangaroo Courts?

John Hutton

So a member goes to a local rep and says he knows something. Local rep puts member in touch with the Gardaí. Member then gets cold feet and says he is not sure if he should talk to police about it and wants to talk to senior SF party. SF TD then tells the member to go to the Gardai and give a statement which he does, and statement proves instrumental in the investigation.

So at all stages SF tell member to voluntarily cooperate with the Gardai and in fact encourage him to do so and support him in doing it.

Was this not the right and proper thing to do?

Tbh I can understand a person not wanting to give a statement given the intimidation and threats that went on. I would also not be pleased to see all the media reports about my statement when the other criminals are still at large!

If the SF member was a long-standing one of the older generation I can understand his wariness of speaking to the Garda given the carry on the Gardai got up to in Dundalk historically. So he asked for support and advice from his friends and it was given.

This is a positive and shows how SF have changed - 30 years ago they would have told him to have no dealings with the police whatsoever.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Kangaroo Courts?

It's hard to turn a blind eye to what actually happened here isn't it. Having to resort to that kind of comment.

FrancieBrady

John Hutton wrote: »

So a member goes to a local rep and says he knows something. Local rep puts member in touch with the Gardaí. Member then gets cold feet and says he is not sure if he should talk to police about it and wants to talk to senior SF party. SF TD then tells the member to go to the Gardai and give a statement which he does, and statement proves instrumental in the investigation.

So at all stages SF tell member to voluntarily cooperate with the Gardai and in fact encourage him to do so and support him in doing it.

Was this not the right and proper thing to do?

Tbh I can understand a person not wanting to give a statement given the intimidation and threats that went on. I would also not be pleased to see all the media reports about my statement when the other criminals are still at large!

If the SF member was a long-standing one of the older generation I can understand his wariness of speaking to the Garda given the carry on the Gardai got up to in Dundalk historically. So he asked for support and advice from his friends and it was given.

This is a positive and shows how SF have changed - 30 years ago they would have told him to have no dealings with the police whatsoever.

Has to be asked, is it right that a senior Gardai can release information like this.

piplip87

Its says it all when a Garda is murdered and a witness has to go to a political party to make sure the murderer isn't a "Good Republican." At the end of the day that's the only logical reason behind this.

Again I say not a normal political party .

John Hutton

piplip87 wrote: »

Its says it all when a Garda is murdered and a witness has to go to a political party to make sure the murderer isn't a "Good Republican." At the end of the day that's the only logical reason behind this.

Again I say not a normal political party .

If I was privy to information that could jail one member of a large murderous gang I would seek advice from people I trust before giving a statement to the Gardai.

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's hard to turn a blind eye to what actually happened here isn't it. Having to resort to that kind of comment.

As opposed to having to get the all clear from your local army council before speaking to the cops about an armed robbery, or getting raped by your uncle?

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

Its says it all when a Garda is murdered and a witness has to go to a political party to make sure the murderer isn't a "Good Republican." At the end of the day that's the only logical reason behind this.

Again I say not a normal political party .

Or a simpler explanation is that we don't live in a normal society where a majority trust the security forces on either side.

Would you have full trust in a police force that would leak info like this in the middle of an ongoing investigation? Would it encourage more witnesses to come forward or discourage them do you think?

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

As opposed to having to get the all clear from your local army council before speaking to the cops about an armed robbery, or getting raped by your uncle?

What actually happened again:

A nervous witness (we don't know the nature of his reticence BTW) approaches an elected SF councillor and the councillor contacts the Gardai in Feb 2017.

The garda subsequently leaks the information to the media who attempt to embarrass the party politically (an ongoing campaign since the election and before) which is the only reasonable explanation as to why a garda would release this in the middle of an investigation. It certainly wasn't to encourage more witnesses to come forward anyhow.

Again...am I missing anything about this?

astrofool

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has to be asked, is it right that a senior Gardai can release information like this.

Maybe the Garda should have checked with the local SF representative first.

piplip87

astrofool wrote: »

Maybe the Garda should have checked with the local SF representative first.

Maybe seeing if there was any single female SF councillors ? The last one to Marry a cop killer is now a TD

piplip87

FrancieBrady wrote: »

the media who attempt to embarrass the party politically (an ongoing campaign since the election and before)

Ah here we go again. Let's all remember the true victims of this whole event. Sinn Fein are the victims. The media have it out for them....... Anytime Marylou gets asked a question she can't answer let's blame the media. Anytime SF are exposed for their handling of many murderes, rapes or subsequent cover ups, let blame the media ......

Its not surprising though as the Donald did attend the odd fundraiser back in the day. Maybe he is advising Marylou how to use the term "fake news" and biased media.

FrancieBrady

astrofool wrote: »

Maybe the Garda should have checked with the local SF representative first.

Glib and funny as you think that is, seems to me it's a pretty serious slight on the Gardai again.

If they want trust, they have to be trustworthy.

FrancieBrady

piplip87 wrote: »

Ah here we go again. Let's all remember the true victims of this whole event. Sinn Fein are the victims. The media have it out for them....... Anytime Marylou gets asked a question she can't answer let's blame the media. Anytime SF are exposed for their handling of many murderes, rapes or subsequent cover ups, let blame the media ......

Its not surprising though as the Donald did attend the odd fundraiser back in the day. Maybe he is advising Marylou how to use the term "fake news" and biased media.

Typical cry there.

SF did the right thing here when approached. Hard for you to get away from that fact.

John Hutton

SF should be applauded for encouraging and supporting a key witness to come forward.

The retired Gardai should be condemned for leaking the identity of the witness and those who supported him - they have all been put in danger.

muffler

IAMAMORON wrote: »

honest politicians trying to run the country.

Really? That's news to me.

James Brown

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sinn-f%C3%A9in-witness-consulted-party-over-aaron-brady-case-before-speaking-to-garda%C3%AD-1.4332502

Very strange case here. A witness in a murder trial of a member of AGS refused to speak to police without first checking with the powers that be in Sinn Fein.

That's not normal behaviour for a political party. That's how criminal organisations like the Mafia operate.

Anyone else think this is disgraceful carry on?

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

Ush1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What actually happened again:

A nervous witness (we don't know the nature of his reticence BTW) approaches an elected SF councillor and the councillor contacts the Gardai in Feb 2017.

The garda subsequently leaks the information to the media who attempt to embarrass the party politically (an ongoing campaign since the election and before) which is the only reasonable explanation as to why a garda would release this in the middle of an investigation. It certainly wasn't to encourage more witnesses to come forward anyhow.

Again...am I missing anything about this?

Or would it be that members of the public with information on a crime should go directly to AGS rather than getting "advice" off a local councillor first?

James Brown

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Are they not, currently, “under orders” to step back from “engaging”, P?

I thought you lads were lost. Welcome back

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What’s going to be the more interesting story is who the TD contacted for advice on the matter.

Maria Bailey Thread

FrancieBrady

Ush1 wrote: »

Or would it be that members of the public with information on a crime should go directly to AGS rather than getting "advice" off a local councillor first?

Ideally yes.
But the simple fact of an abnormal society (and it is still in some quarters) that the Gardai and PSNI are not trusted.

Would YOU be happy if a Garda did this to you for what can only be political purposes.
If somebody broke the law here in how this was handled the appropriate action was the Gardai to take them to court. Not leak info about an ongoing case to the media.

FrancieBrady

tyrdfffh wrote: »

Are you and your mates Bowie et al getting paid to spend all day every day defending Sinn Fein on boards.ie?

Would you not get a job and contribute something of value to the country?

I'm semi retired...why are you not at work?

James Brown

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It really makes you cringe when you see them looking for reform of the Special Criminal Court in one breath and then standing plain face in Dáil Eireann throwing mud at honest politicians trying to run the country. The worst is that people are voting for these scumbags as a viable alternative, voters are lapping up their tripe, scary enough.

When the boyos create a tribunal with teeth and consequences for their decades of crony and 'inappropriate behaviour' get back to me.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

The Mafia never tell their members to talk to the police. Also he was a witness against Brady.
You'll find many senior or long time political party affiliates will touch base with HQ before possibly involving the party name in something or even looking for legal advice.
I certainly don't find it disgraceful.
Even well to do students go to the school principle before the police.

The Times reporting like its a thing is merely another hatchet job.

No sorry, a ff member does not need to contact head office to get permission to make a statement to police. Absolutely not.

Of they are a suspect they may seek legal advise. If it's a party issue, they will take to senior people but a witness in a murder? No.

I'll defend sf here though, they appear to have made active effort to facilitate the investigation team.

FrancieBrady

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No sorry, a ff member does not need to contact head office to get permission to make a statement to police. Absolutely not.

Of they are a suspect they may seek legal advise. If it's a party issue, they will take to senior people but a witness in a murder? No.

I'll defend sf here though, they appear to have made active effort to facilitate the investigation team.

So you have assumed it was 'permission' and not 'reassurance'.

Excellent.

Ush1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ideally yes.
But the simple fact of an abnormal society (and it is still in some quarters) that the Gardai and PSNI are not trusted.

Would YOU be happy if a Garda did this to you for what can only be political purposes.
If somebody broke the law here in how this was handled the appropriate action was the Gardai to take them to court. Not leak info about an ongoing case to the media.

I wouldn't go to a politician about a crime I witnessed so I can't answer that.

Do you think it's right that people are effectively vetting information through politicians(who you said aren't trustworthy anyway) than to AGS?

FrancieBrady

Ush1 wrote: »

I wouldn't go to a politician about a crime I witnessed so I can't answer that.

Do you think it's right that people are effectively vetting information through politicians(who you said aren't trustworthy anyway) than to AGS?

No it isn't right.
Lots of things about a post conflict/war society are not right.

The fact is that large parts of communities that went through the conflict/war still do not trust the gardai.
Many in what is considered normal society do not trust the Gardai and frankly, this further evidence of leaking info for political purposes is very concerning to me. How many times does it need to happen until people ask questions?

Dyr

I seem to remember taking flak for posting something about never voluntarily becoming involved with AGS because they are dangerous

Well, here is a classic example why, fella does the right thing, gives vital evidence that convicts a cop killer and still gets f****d over by a garda just because it suited his book to f**k him over.

James Brown

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No sorry, a ff member does not need to contact head office to get permission to make a statement to police. Absolutely not.

Of they are a suspect they may seek legal advise. If it's a party issue, they will take to senior people but a witness in a murder? No.

I'll defend sf here though, they appear to have made active effort to facilitate the investigation team.

I've no idea what the situation is with any party. We don't know he was made to. I would suggest you are free to do so should you wish.
You can call your Granny or pal too I'd imagine. It's not something I would do. Likely I'd contact friend or family myself. It's unlikely people wouldn't talk to anybody.
If SF are found to have obstructed justice those responsible should be held to account.
Here we have another case of the finer details of a case being leaked. I don't recall any stories about who a witness did or did not contact before speaking with the police. Accused folk, yes. This reads like the Times trying to link SF to the murder, even though the chap was a witness against. It's of little consequence. This kind of spin is tired and dried up. The lads will get a few hours of japes before we get back to the troubles etc.

"nothing to see here"

lol ye are gas lads.

the next little thing worth having a dig at from the parties that actually run the country will be worth twenty threads from the usual accounts, but this is not worth a mention.

be funny if it wasnt actually deeply serious