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Inheritance issue

  • 18-08-2020 2:27am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2


    Looking for some opinions or maybe even a kick up the behind if I’m being ridiculous.

    My father died unexpectedly 20 years ago when I was still a child. My mother hasn’t had much contact with his family since but I have been very much active in the family.

    Recently there has been talks of what will happen to my elderly grandmothers home, which would have been my fathers family home, when she passes away. My father came from a large family of 15 and it has been mentioned that the home will be left to all surviving children, which would be 12.

    Out of the 3 siblings who have pre deceased my grandmother, my father was the only one had had a child, me.

    I’m not sure if I’m being unreasonable, and I may well be, but I’m finding this arrangement a bit unfair and I feel like I am being left out. There is no way the home will be sold as it is close to the hearts of all of my uncles and aunts. This means that inevitably their shares in the home will be left to their children, my first cousins. This would basically leave me as the only grandchild with potentially no stake in the family home in the future.

    Ideally I would like to get the share that my father would get if he were alive today, it isn’t anything to do with benefitting financially, it’s more about having a say on what happens to the home in the future.

    I hope this makes sense, and please don’t hold back if you think I’m being unreasonable/cheeky/whatever.

    Thanks.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭Clarabel


    MeI was left "my portion" in similar circumstances to you and I felt left out in other ways.

    If you're close they'll include you in decisions anyways.

    Wills bring out the nasty and weirdness in people. My advice fix it in your head so you don't feel like you do and move on. (Regardless of of you are or aren't entitled)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Get legal advice. If your grandmother has made a will, that's one thing. But if there is no will, you should be allowed a seat at the table.

    Before approaching them, for your own information purposes (and not to storm in and declare you've obtained legal advice to them all and demand ground rules be set) I'd get legal advice on where you stand. And then discuss it with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    so your grandmother's wishes were that the house be left to the 12 surviving children. (presuming no will is located that contradicts this).

    But you are not happy with grandmothers wishes? Or you claim she told you otherwise? Is it strange how what you think the way things should be disposed of is the very circumstance where you do well from?

    I presume you think the house should be shared 15 ways rather than 12, and you 'inherit' your fathers share. Im afraid the fly in that ointment would be that your mother would get that share not you. So either way you dont get a say, or a share.

    Im trying to understand where the stated position of the family came from. Usually its grannys wishes. Often one sibling gets a mortgage to buy out other siblings share and keep the house in the family. But sometimes that's just not practical. and 15 families cannot live in the house. Houses cost money to upkeep and maintain, and empty houses are crime magnets. Sometimes one of the children just get the whole house. The youngest, or the one who was the carer etc.

    Legal wishes aside i hope you family come together and are kind to each other. If you have suggestions for funeral, ask the organiser respectfully if your ideas can be incorporated and you can be involved.

    I don't think you need a kick up the behind. someone you love has passed on, and in my experience that leaves you feeling helpless.


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    A house split 12 or 13 ways, is the end amount really worth it though by the time you pay a solicitor etc?

    A few points - Grandmother isn't dead yet, and without sounding crass, there's plenty of opportunity for others to influence her to change her will in their favour - including you I suppose.

    Is there a will? If so, then that's what will happen - or should, not all executers are ethical and there's many of them that have taken the lot and never divided it up the way it was supposed to be.
    Your mother as your father's next of kin would likely inherit any share intended for your father unless it was specifically willed to you.

    But I don't think it's necessarily about the money for you. It seems to be about your place in the family, and acknowledgement of that. It's important to know that the distribution of material assets tend to be more practical than emotional - I know someone who was left the family home in it's entirety. The person who passed away loved each of her children equally (and had one she indulged more than others) yet left the house to the one that most needed it with the full agreement of the others in the family. In our family, we know it's willed equally. Should a sibling pass away before that happens, I and the other executor would make sure their offspring get that share, but another executor might not do that.

    If you are omitted from the house proceeds, I think it might be worth asking for one thing in the house from the inheritors that is meaningful for you and a reminder of your grandmother. It could be an ornament or a lamp or a favourite table/chair that is something that reminds you of your grandmother and the times you spent in her home. I and my siblings all have one thing in our homes that used to belong to a loved one and it's really lovely visiting each others houses and seeing what they picked in pride of place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Op, sounds like you're best off with nothing to do with it. If it's close to your family's hearts, no doubt someone will want to live in it, and they'll probably move in before everything is official, and they'll probably not want to pay market value, or they'll have difficulty getting a mortgage to buy the others out.

    Also - your grandmother is still alive, right? You could ask her. If you're not close it might be cheeky but if it means that much to you go ahead and ask. You could start visiting with cakes and presents and she might leave the whole lot to you.
    Or she might be one of those cooler older people who made her mind up and that's that.

    A lot depends on her will, too. She might easily have written one 30 years ago and didn't update it. Anyway the poor women isn't even dead yet so maybe it's a bit crass to be talking about her house like that.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    And where were you over the past 20 years OP? All of a sudden now you have a keen interest in your grandmother now that she is elderly and likely to die at any moment.

    And as for a house left between 12 people. That'll work out well. Most likely outcome is that some will want to sell, some won't, some will change their minds, some wont, and in the end there will be a 12 way family rift with everyone not talking to eachother after it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Anonymousacc20


    And where were you over the past 20 years OP? All of a sudden now you have a keen interest in your grandmother now that she is elderly and likely to die at any moment.

    And as for a house left between 12 people. That'll work out well. Most likely outcome is that some will want to sell, some won't, some will change their minds, some wont, and in the end there will be a 12 way family rift with everyone not talking to eachother after it.

    Before you make ridiculous comments like that, maybe have a read of the post again and you might see the part where I mentioned that I have been very involved with that side of the family ever since my father died, and I would like to think I have been a good granddaughter.

    My grandmother is also in great health, this has only came to my mind after hearing other family members discussing it.


  • Posts: 5,121 [Deleted User]


    OP what do you think is going to happen to the house?
    Would you be paying 1/13 of the insurance, property tax, maintenance, heating, security?
    Would you be doing some of whatever jobs need doing, lawn, windows, gutters?
    Would you get any benefit?
    Practically I understand the emotional attachment and perhaps you are already in the will but do you want to be negoitating the above with 12 others when you don't seem to be in the loop even now.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,799 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    My grandmother is also in great health, this has only came to my mind after hearing other family members discussing it.

    I thought your grandmother was in ill health and about to pass. So she's talking now about when she passes, leaving the family to her surviving children? She can leave it to whoever she wants and would probably view that as fair. Why not?

    If other family members are discussing it around her, that's a bit cold tbh. Sounds like you've no hurry about doing anything if your grandmother is in good health? People can discuss all they want but no one can actually do a thing about the house while your grandmother is still alive. Why worry about it now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    First question is has a will been made, and what does it say? A will supercedes anything else. If the idea to leave it to the surviving children is her idea, and that's what her will say/will say, there's nothing you can do about it.

    How much hassle will it cause to get what you think you should be getting? I get that it's a point of principle for you, but to be honest, I don't really see what the principle is. Just how active have you been in the family - what does that really mean?

    With 12 siblings, there's every chance that either it will be sold and divided amongst the 12 (I know you don't think that's likely), or might be used as a holiday home in some way, or else they'll engage in some bitter infighting about 8.5% of a decades-old house (less of a % if it goes down to the grandkids).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    To me? Where there's a will, there's a relative! I'm sorry OP but your Gran's house and any money is hers to do as she wishes. If you're named? Great. If not? Let it go.

    In any case, It's such a small amount of money, it hardly seems worth the hassle, IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Who is talking about this? Your granny or her children?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,083 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Leaving a house between 2 doesnt work. Leaving a house between 12 or 15 is just nuts.
    You might say it will never be sold but i can guarantee that it will be on the market as some will demand their share in cash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭juneg


    mickdw wrote: »
    Leaving a house between 2 doesnt work. Leaving a house between 12 or 15 is just nuts.
    You might say it will never be sold but i can guarantee that it will be on the market as some will demand their share in cash.

    I'd stay well out of it. Sounds like a recipe for an almighty falling out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I don’t think you need a kick in the behind, but:
    - was your Dad close to his mother and siblings?
    - was your Dad involved with them up to his death, or did he lose contact a bit when he got married?
    - when exactly did you become involved with them?
    - is this the siblings talking about what should happen their family home, or the person whose home it is, your grandmother?

    My feeling is that you’re getting sentimentally attached to a scenario that is just completely unworkable. Even if you did get a share of the house, how does that work? 12 siblings plus you try to spent time in the house on a time-share basis?? Are you willing to contribute to maintain the house, for repairs, maintenance and bills? What if one - or 10 siblings want their cash share out of it?

    It’s an utter recipe for disaster as far as I can see. How would anyone clarify usage of the house? How would bills be split? What if some siblings just want out of the arrangement? What if other grandchildren (and how many are there?) want to use the house, do they pay rent to use it (and then should you, as another of possibly many grandchildren, pay to use the house?

    And most of all, what does your grandmother want to do with her house, and what does her Will say (not that she should feel in any way obligated to tell anyone that).

    I think you’re on a hiding to nothing except a load of hassle and very probably fighting with your fathers family, if you were to interfere at all. You could well find that the surviving siblings unite against you if you try to ‘stake a claim’.

    Tread carefully, and think about what you really want: do you want to keep your fathers siblings and their children - your cousins - in your life, or do you want a 1/13 share of an utterly impossible to manage house.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    I think the general opinion on this OP is that you are better off staying out of it as it will be more hassle than it is worth.

    Houses left between 2 or 3 people cause huge problems. A house left between 13 people is absolutely bonkers and is just a 13 way family feud waiting to happen.

    I see houses left between siblings and there are disputes about selling/keeping and often the end result is the siblings falling out over it and forming factions and when no agreement can be got about who should maintain the house, it gets derelict and rots bit by bit.

    You'd often see a house in an OK area or in the country left all overgrown and vandalised and wonder why the hell anyone would leave it like that. Often the story you hear afterwards is that there is a dispute over a will and it cannot be sold and no-one is willing to spend a penny on maintenance.

    I'd suggesting avoiding all this hassle and trouble and just let the whole thing go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP you might be massively over thinking this as while your granny is in good health now if that changes the house may be sold before she passes and the funds used by her to be comfortable in her last few years. Thats what my granny did a few years ago. She always said the house would be left to her kids but she didn't think she'd be going as long as she has. She moved in with my aunt but sold her house and the money is being used to pay for careers etc etc Shes 96, needs a lot of care but still going so I'm fairly sure nothing will be left when she goes. Only thing I'm getting when she passes away is a small dog statue I've loved since a little girl.

    So is your issue you think you are loosing out on money or that you are not being considered within the family?

    If you think you are loosing out on money as I said above chances are there won't be any but even if there is divided between 12 people isn't going to leave much after taxes etc They may not want to sell the house but they'll prob have no choice unless one sibling wants to buy the others out.

    if you think your being forgotten about in the family well thats a conversation you need to have with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭the14thwarrior


    normally a house is left to the surviving children. sometimes it will say in the event of a sibling dying, their children will get their potion. sometimes is says their next of kin. but normally a house is left to the surviving children. it depends on how the will is worded
    for lots of families, its a way of ensuring the house "stays in the family" and doesn't go to the in laws.

    its just the way it is.
    unfortunately, no way of knowing until the will is heard.

    i would not count on getting as much as a look in.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭lurker2000


    I would be in the same boat as you OP - my dad died when I was young. His parents have since died and his sister was left in the house. She made her will that when she died, her siblings would get their share and myself and my siblings would get our dads share.

    TBH I think that's unfair on my mother as she's the one that had the heavy financial burden to carry after he died, but that's generally the way the blood line inheritance should go.

    But as others have said, there is a many a slip twix cup and lip and your gran could leave it all to the church or whatever way she wants to do it. You are jumping the gun in worrying now about how it will pan out - but wills can be fraught with trauma. In my aunts case, I never counted on being in the will until I got confirmation I was. Its best to forge ahead without placing all your hope riding on it. It she has to go into a home, a portion will go anyway to the fair deal etc and with probate, funeral etc, you may be fretting over a couple of grand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,122 ✭✭✭screamer


    I really don’t get Irish people’s approach to this topic, it’s so taboo and then the person dies and the whole family falls out and apart.
    I would very simply speak to your Granny if you are as close to her as you say and ask her if she’s made a will and decided what she’s leaving to whom. If she won’t discuss it with you, you know you’re getting nothing.
    If she makes no will, then the estate will be intestate and you would be entitled to your fathers share afaik.
    Still be prepared to make your peace with this, inheritance is such a nightmare in Ireland. It’d be better if no one had anything to bequeath when they die as there’d be nothing to fight over


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    “I really don’t get Irish people’s approach to this topic, it’s so taboo and then the person dies and the whole family falls out and apart.
    I would very simply speak to your Granny if you are as close to her as you say and ask her if she’s made a will and decided what she’s leaving to whom. If she won’t discuss it with you, you know you’re getting nothing.”

    It’s none of the OP’s business what his grandmother decides to do with her money. It’s none of the OP’s business if she decides to leave to the cats and dogs home, or to certain relatives.

    I don’t think it’s right to feel any entitlement to the grandmother’s potential estate. But even if it happened, it would all be fraught with issues re who gets right to use the house - and who pays ongoing maintenance bills


  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    To me? Where there's a will, there's a relative! I'm sorry OP but your Gran's house and any money is hers to do as she wishes. If you're named? Great. If not? Let it go.

    In any case, It's such a small amount of money, it hardly seems worth the hassle, IMO.

    The ideal situation would be if your grandmother made no will. You would inherit your fathers share (assuming you're an only child)


  • Registered Users Posts: 929 ✭✭✭Shelli2


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    The ideal situation would be if your grandmother made no will. You would inherit your fathers share (assuming you're an only child)

    Would his living wife not inherit it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    Shelli2 wrote: »
    Would his living wife not inherit it?

    I'm not a solicitor but my clear understanding of this matter is that that if the grandmother died intestate the grandchild would inherit their pre-deceased father's share directly under the intestacy rules. It would not pass to her mother under the Succession Act, 1965.

    The wife in this case is no blood relation to her mother-in-law so she would not be entitled to an intestate share.


  • Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    Looking for some opinions or maybe even a kick up the behind if I’m being ridiculous.

    My father died unexpectedly 20 years ago when I was still a child. My mother hasn’t had much contact with his family since but I have been very much active in the family.

    Recently there has been talks of what will happen to my elderly grandmothers home, which would have been my fathers family home, when she passes away. My father came from a large family of 15 and it has been mentioned that the home will be left to all surviving children, which would be 12.

    Out of the 3 siblings who have pre deceased my grandmother, my father was the only one had had a child, me.

    I’m not sure if I’m being unreasonable, and I may well be, but I’m finding this arrangement a bit unfair and I feel like I am being left out. There is no way the home will be sold as it is close to the hearts of all of my uncles and aunts. This means that inevitably their shares in the home will be left to their children, my first cousins. This would basically leave me as the only grandchild with potentially no stake in the family home in the future.

    Ideally I would like to get the share that my father would get if he were alive today, it isn’t anything to do with benefitting financially, it’s more about having a say on what happens to the home in the future.

    I hope this makes sense, and please don’t hold back if you think I’m being unreasonable/cheeky/whatever.

    Thanks.

    Take the advice of people advising you to get legal advice.

    You maybe automatically included as an heir. Maybe a will excludes you.

    As Neyite says though you grandmother is still alive. When the old dear passes you will find out what is what. Just enjoy each others company for as long as you can. The house means nothing really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭Katgurl


    Hi OP,

    I think you are barking up the wrong tree with wanting a share in the house. As previous posters have said it will be rife with problems.

    It's clear from your post your concern stems from being dismissed or not considered an equal part of the family. I sympathise. You may have misinterpreted whatever was said. Can you elaborate on what led up to this train of thought?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Without a will the property goes to next of kin which in this case is the remaining children.

    That's The Irish system from my understanding having gone through setting up a will recently.

    I also know that my parents when doing their wills had to specify that the grandchildren in their case, inherited the parents share in the event of early death. So my kids get my share of the estate if I have died.


  • Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    Katgurl wrote: »
    Hi OP,

    I think you are barking up the wrong tree with wanting a share in the house. As previous posters have said it will be rife with problems.

    It's clear from your post your concern stems from being dismissed or not considered an equal part of the family. I sympathise. You may have misinterpreted whatever was said. Can you elaborate on what led up to this train of thought?

    I have sister talking about my parents dying and inheritance for 20 years.She has been told many times to stop but obviously thinks even mote about it. Has it in for me thinking I'm inheriting my parents house. I'd be delighted if I did just so I could laugh in front of her.

    She is desperate to take stuff out of the house to lessen "the clutter" and keep them "safe".

    I have no idea if there is will but thee is two other money hungry siblings nearly as bad - they at least stay away.

    If I was the OP I would just stay out of it. If a person leaves you something in a will, that is nice. If they don't they don't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    How much is the property worth OP?

    How many children do each of the 12 siblings have?

    If you want a 13th share of a property that is not going to be sold and inheritance tax will have to be paid on and there is no requirement to be bought out from, is it worth the hassle?

    Also, now I’m not being personal here but as you said your father died when you were young (sorry to hear that) did your mother take you to live elsewhere? How was their relationship?

    Is that worth the hassle for an asset that you will have no access to or income from.

    Now if it is a mansion with a load of land, that’s different but if it’s not, maybe not worth it.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    it goes to who ever your grandmother leaves it to in the will if no will it goes to her living children
    then it would go to brothers and sisters your probably at end list

    https://www.propertyguides.com/ireland/news/irish-inheritance-laws/


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