Immersion elements blowing

redcatstar

Hi I have had this problem for years the immersion works on sink but blows on bath , I have had the element changed about 5 times and it still happens, element no BT11 , I think , can any one advice pls
Its driving me nuts

Bruthal

What is showing this, trip switch going off?

redcatstar

Bruthal wrote: »

What is showing this, trip switch going off?

Yes trip switch goes within mins of bath been turned on ok on sink

coylemj

Have you talked to an electrician? My bath element is rated at 2.8 kW, the sink is 2 kW. It sounds like the circuit can't handle the bath load. Is the power coming from a dedicated circuit?

redcatstar

coylemj wrote: »

Have you talked to an electrician? My bath element is rated at 2.8 kW, the sink is 2 kW. It sounds like the circuit can't handle the bath load. Is the power coming from a dedicated circuit?

Thanks no electrician ever mentioned it but I never asked either. How could that be fixed

Bruthal

It is usually the element casing which fails, but put up a photo of the breaker that is tripping, if possible.

They trip breakers earlier when there is an RCD on them, often used to see elements directly exposed to the water when it was Just MCBs on them.

If it is a failed element, and happens relatively often, it might be hard water and limescale build up, which causes the element itself to overheat. Either that, or the water is somehow more corrosive than normal.

coylemj

redcatstar wrote: »

Yes trip switch goes within mins of bath been turned on ok on sink

Did that happen with all of the five elements you've had fitted? Straight from new, or does it take a few months before it happens?

Do you know the specs of the current element? Can you read the power rating from the top of the element?

redcatstar

Not sure wat you meant ,attaching 3 photos

redcatstar

Not sure wat you meant ,attaching 3 photos

moceri

Replace with an INCOLOY element at the next failure. These are more robust.

redcatstar

2

redcatstar

3

redcatstar

Hi
Can you explain wat that is pls

redcatstar

coylemj wrote: »

Did that happen with all of the five elements you've had fitted? Straight from new, or does it take a few months before it happens?

Do you know the specs of the current element? Can you read the power rating from the top of the element?

Almost immediately wen put on bath
15A 250v- is that wat you mean

redcatstar

moceri wrote: »

Replace with an INCOLOY element at the next failure. These are more robust.

Wat is this pls

Bruthal

redcatstar wrote: »

Wat is this pls

Alloy more resistant to heat etc than copper clad elements.

Bruthal

redcatstar wrote: »

Almost immediately wen put on bath
15A 250v- is that wat you mean

Photo of the tripswitch that's tripping?

coylemj

redcatstar wrote: »

Hi I have had this problem for years the immersion works on sink but blows on bath , I have had the element changed about 5 times and it still happens, element no BT11 , I think , can any one advice pls

Have you replaced the BT11 gadget (as shown in the photo) five times? That's the thermostat, it's not the cause of the problem. Your problem is with the immersion element, specifically the bath part (it's a dual element) is drawing too much power and tripping the circuit.

redcatstar

coylemj wrote: »

Have you replaced the BT11 gadget (as shown in the photo) five times? That's the thermostat, it's not the cause of the problem. Your problem is with the immersion element, specifically the bath part (it's a dual element) is drawing too much power and tripping the circuit.

Oh that's not the problem so is the problem the tank or were can I find it pls, haven't a clue

redcatstar

Is that long piece the element and on top the thermostat pls

coylemj

redcatstar wrote: »

Oh that's not the problem so is the problem the tank or were can I find it pls, haven't a clue

There is a small silver cylinder at the top of your immersion tank, underneath it is the top of the heating mechanism which consists of two heating elements which go down into the tank. The shorter element is rated at about 2 kW and is powered when the switch is set to 'Sink', the longer element is rated at closer to 3 kW and is powered when the switch is set to 'Bath'.

coylemj

redcatstar wrote: »

Is that long piece the element and on top the thermostat pls

No, that whole thing is the thermostat. The rod is what picks up the temperature of the water, it's not a heating element. The neutral connection goes through it, it's common to both the sink and bath circuits so it cuts off the power when the set temperature is reached.

redcatstar

coylemj wrote: »

There is a small silver cylinder at the top of your immersion tank, underneath it is the top of the heating mechanism which consists of two heating elements which go down into the tank. The shorter element is rated at about 2 kW and is powered when the switch is set to 'Sink', the longer element is rated at closer to 3 kW and is powered when the switch is set to 'Bath'.

Ok so I wont be able to see this myself but do I take it then when the thermostat is taken out, the element is under that and can be taken out and replaced

meercat

Bruthal wrote: »

Photo of the tripswitch that's tripping?

Can you post a picture of the tripswitch op?

coylemj

redcatstar wrote: »

Ok so I wont be able to see this myself but do I take it then when the thermostat is taken out, the element is under that and can be taken out and replaced

I wouldn't assume that. The immersion is not 'under' the thermostat.

Changing the thermostat is something an amateur can do. I'd be getting a professional to install a new immersion element.

Bruthal

coylemj wrote: »

Have you replaced the BT11 gadget (as shown in the photo) five times? That's the thermostat, it's not the cause of the problem. Your problem is with the immersion element, specifically the bath part (it's a dual element) is drawing too much power and tripping the circuit.

Or the element is split. If each time it's replaced it works for a while, months or a year, it's the element itself likely the problem.

A photo of the tripping breaker might help to get some idea

redcatstar

meercat wrote: »

Can you post a picture of the tripswitch op?

This?

Cerco

Could be the bath element touching the side of the cylinder, causing a hot spot that causes the casing to degrade over time. Then it shorts off the cylinder.......puff.
Did you inspect the faulty elements Op?

redcatstar

meercat wrote: »

Can you post a picture of the tripswitch op?

This ??

Bruthal

Cerco wrote: »

Could be the bath element touching the side of the cylinder, causing a hot spot that causes the casing to degrade over time. Then it shorts off the cylinder.......puff.
Did you inspect the faulty elements Op?

Yes that's something I was going to say earlier, forgot to add it. It sometimes ends up bet unto the cylinder heating coil from central heating. I have replaced them before where it was hard to avoid. Ended up slightly changing the plane of the cylinder threaded hole to get around it.

redcatstar

coylemj wrote: »

I wouldn't assume that. The immersion is not 'under' the thermostat.

Changing the thermostat is something an amateur can do. I'd be getting a professional to install a new immersion element.

I've always got an electrician well 2 of them and that's wat they always do ,strange and upsetting, thank you for helping

Bruthal

redcatstar wrote: »

This ??

Yes, which one is tripping, close up photo showing its specs clearly.

Bruthal

redcatstar wrote: »

I've always got an electrician well 2 of them and that's wat they always do ,strange and upsetting, thank you for helping

Each time you replace, how long before starts tripping?

redcatstar

I've never seen the element just the thermostat will attach photo of last one that was taken out

redcatstar

never seen element just the thermostat will attach photo last one that was taken out

redcatstar

redcatstar wrote: »

I've always got an electrician well 2 of them and that's wat they always do ,strange

This is end of last thermostat

redcatstar

This is end of last thermostat

redcatstar

end of last thermostat

redcatstar

End of thermostat

redcatstar

redcatstar wrote: »

End of thermostat

I'm so sorry I'm trying to attach photo of end of thermostat, but keeps saying file too big
And Bruthaul I've a cast on my leg will get husband wen home to take a better photo of tripswitch

Man with broke phone

It looks like your emersion element is busted on bath.

It seems

You got an electritian to come out. He decided the stat was faulty and this was causing the element to overheat and trip. He took your money and left. Your bath emersion still didnt work so you rang him again and he again replaced the stat. Then 4 or 5 stats later you are starting to wonder why you keep changing the stat.

The same emersion seems to be in the cylinder since the problem began and the water has never heated on bath ever since the first time it broke is what Im guessing. Probably 150-200 euro for a plumber to land there with an emersion, drain the cylinder change it out, wire it, fill it back up and head on his way after checking that it actually heats the water on bath.

coylemj

redcatstar wrote: »

never seen element just the thermostat will attach photo last one that was taken out

I don't think anyone here is asking for another photo of the thermostat.

It's a closeup of the trip switch they're looking for.

cnocbui

redcatstar wrote: »

I'm so sorry I'm trying to attach photo of end of thermostat, but keeps saying file too big
And Bruthaul I've a cast on my leg will get husband wen home to take a better photo of tripswitch

Do you have very hard water?

redcatstar

cnocbui wrote: »

Do you have very hard water?

I really don't know , sligo

redcatstar

coylemj wrote: »

I don't think anyone here is asking for another photo of the thermostat.

It's a closeup of the trip switch they're looking for.

Thank you will have to wait till husband gets home to get better photo of trip switch , my leg is in a cast

cnocbui

redcatstar wrote: »

I really don't know , sligo

Limescale in the kettle, in a pan of water when you boil it - sort of milky sediment.

I'm asking because if you have, then it is likely it is causing corrosion on the immersion heating element jacket, which protects the electrical heating element inside it from the water in the cylinder. If the jacket corrodes through, water can seep in and touch the electrical element, which will trip the RCD, which is a special circuit breaker to protect people from being electrocuted.

The solution is to replace the immersion heating element which uses stainless steel as the material for the jacket protecting the electrical element. This is far more resistant to corrosion and should solve the problem, if corrosion is the problem and not something else.

My current stainless steel immersion element i put in, in 2007.

redcatstar

cnocbui wrote: »

Limescale in the kettle, in a pan of water when you boil it - sort of milky sediment.

I'm asking because if you have, then it is likely it is causing corrosion on the immersion heating element jacket, which protects the electrical heating element inside it from the water in the cylinder. If the jacket corrodes through, water can seep in and touch the electrical element, which will trip the RCD, which is a special circuit breaker to protect people from being electrocuted.

The solution is to replace the immersion heating element which uses stainless steel as the material for the jacket protecting the electrical element. This is far more resistant to corrosion and should solve the problem, if corrosion is the problem and not something else.

My current stainless steel immersion element i put in, in 2007.

No dont have that in kettle or pots

John.G

There is no trip with sink selected so assuming that the bath element is blown and down to earth which it would have to be if the MCB is tripping (with bath selected) then with sink selected and the element has heated the water and the stat has opened
one would think that the cylinder would continue to heat/overheat due to the power continuing to flow through the sink element then through the neutral link and back to the bath element , through it and then to earth?. If a RCD is fitted then it should trip every time the sink is selected?.

Man with broke phone

John.G wrote: »

There is no trip with sink selected so assuming that the bath element is blown and down to earth which it would have to be if the MCB is tripping (with bath selected) then with sink selected and the element has heated the water and the stat has opened
one would think that the cylinder would continue to heat/overheat due to the power continuing to flow through the sink element then through the neutral link and back to the bath element , through it and then to earth?. If a RCD is fitted then it should trip every time the sink is selected?.

Im not an electrical engineer but surely if sink is selected the electricity stays away from the bath (long) element,no?

John.G

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Im not an electrical engineer but surely if sink is selected the electricity stays away from the bath (long) element,no?

This, if correct, may show how this can happen.

Man with broke phone

John.G wrote: »

This, if correct, may show how this can happen.

Everyday is a school day, Can you get a multimeter for a continuity test on the element from the control box?