Facing a confrontation tomorrow

cantdecide

I won't go into much detail but I got a job in a multinational on a production line as temporary staff on an open-ended contract. I have a supply-chain related degree and I spent years working in stores and warehouses and elsewhere worked in supply chain offices in procurement, sourcing, buying etc. The company advertised some stores jobs associated with a ramp-up in their production and I got one of these jobs.

I think things have been going well enough despite difficulties but after Friday, I think the negativity I've been experiencing appears to be far more deliberate than I thought. I think I've been getting set up to be jettisoned by my new colleagues for a while in an effort to protect themselves from a threat to their 'cushy number' and I think their plan is about to come to fruition. I think that after a difficult day on Friday, I'm going to be walked into a trap on Monday. I think that whether or not that's the case, I think that the way I was treated on Friday cements the idea that they've been setting me up.

My question is what I should do? My manager is an especially nice and gregarious kind of guy. He was anxious to develop me in the role but I think he is oblivious of what my work life is like. I've had a hellish weekend mulling everything over. Should I try an pre-empt their attack? I stand to lose a better job more associated with my previous career. I stand to lose the raise I got when I moved. I will have to face my old colleagues having been demoted.

Some examples of what I've faced since the start of July:

Eventually, I was moved off the production line and told to join a team of two as a third - again, associated with the additional activity. Essentially, we count inventory and investigate shortages or anomalies and send a daily report to management explaining our findings. I've done this work many times and honestly, it's one of the simpler jobs I've had of this nature. Since I started, the 'training' I've been given has been paper-thin. I'm struggling to develop methods of work and familiarise myself with the products, however, I am not there long and I am getting there. I know part of my problem is nerves - I know I'm being scrutinised and criticised excessively and that's causing me to make silly mistakes. I have been shouted at and sworn at by this nasty individual on several occasions.

There are two incumbents, both there decades; one of the guys seems benign and relatively helpful. The other guy is simply highly strung and aggressive - thumping the desk and randomly shouting and swearing when things go wrong; having raised-voice political debates with his buddies; referring to weaker team members in highly derogatory terms. Sending reports of misbehaviour with photographic evidence to management to 'hang' people in other teams. This guy is not nice people. Not at all.

We don't have an office - we sit on the edge of the factory floor in a tight corner. They share a large desk and I am banished to a nearby tea-station that I have to vacate to allow a disabled colleague to use as his exclusive canteen. I then basically have to stand around with my laptop wherever I can until he's done and then take his seat again. My colleagues work to a routine of processing and cross-checking each others' results and preparing reports and leave me to sit in my canteen, not learning how they process the data. I have to continuously ask for tasks to do and more often than not, they tell me there's nothing to do and I return to my tea station to review my notes or to repeat some exercises for extra practice.

Neither of them have applied any method in training me in any way. I am expected to learn through osmosis with no tips or tricks. If I'm not asking questions, they're not addressing me. Sometimes, minor tasks like doing something related to spreadsheets are dumped on me without any grounding or inquiry about my Excel knowledge but thankfully, I think they've underestimated me and I'm doing okay with them - it doesn't stop the difficult guy from nit-picking my results unfairly and being critical rather than productive. Any instruction I'm given seems to be given in a convoluted way with important pieces missing. When I inquire about detail, I get the same thing grunted back in an equally confusing way.

The difficult guy once chastised me for missing some inventory I was meant to count and when he walked over to point it out to me, he quickly spun and said 'never mind, I counted it' - I went back minutes later; it was his stock sitting there, not mine. I had made no mistake, it was he who had made the error.

On one occasion, I was told to expect to go to a facility across the road for a special, manual task and just around when my colleague told me we would do this, the same guy's phone rang and he turned to me and said 'come on, we have to go' so I grabbed my knife, marker and gloves and said 'I'll just grab my notebook', he said "leave it, you don't need it". He then walked me across the hallway and into a meeting with two of my managers, leaving me sitting there like a twat trying to write notes into my phone and a manager asking why I hadn't brought my laptop.

They regularly take breaks and not tell me they're going. They often head home, passing my stupid tea station and won't say anything. On Friday, they disappeared in the morning for about two hours and again in the afternoon for about an hour; they left me sitting in my tea-station like a twat. I think this time missing was more important than meets the eye.

One of them was on holiday and I was stuck with the difficult guy. For a fortnight, he barely spoke to me and on the last day of the fortnight holiday, the other guy rang him and put him on speaker in front of colleagues to slag him about coming back. After a few introductory gags, the guy on holidays said "how's your buddy getting on"
"Who's my buddy?"
"*states my name*"
"oh..err..he's here with me, say hi, you're on speaker"

cantdecide

If things are as bad as they appear, should I ask HR to investigate?

2Mad2BeMad

They sound like assholes OP,
Lifes too short, leave and find somewhere else. I understand its hard right now due to the current situation we are all in.
But I wouldn't put up with **** like that.
Nothing worse then people talking behind your back when you gotta work with them everyday. Bullies the lot of them.

Tell me how

It seems to me that this is not the right place for you. There are a small number of people working in your team and this could not even be investigated (which I don't even think it needs to be) without it becoming clear that you had made a complaint and then you would still have to work with these people.

I'm not trying to be harsh but I don't see any path from where you are to a happy work environment with the same people involved.
Some of the points you listed happen everywhere without anyone feeling that it is an 'event' or that it was done intentionally.

You guys are just not a right fit to be on the same team as each other. Relax, look for a new job and try to not let it bother you too much.

(P.S. Just as an aside, your first 6 words were 'I won't go in to much detail' and then you write a thousand words of pretty insignificant stuff. I do appreciate that these events were significant for you but in my experience, in the context of a work environment, I think they are all pretty inconsequential. Just my 2 cents)

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

(P.S. Just as an aside, your first 6 words were 'I won't go in to much detail' and then you write a thousand words of pretty insignificant stuff. I do appreciate that these events were significant for you but in my experience, in the context of a work environment, I think they are all pretty inconsequential. Just my 2 cents)

In a similar vein OP, your qualifications, degree / Phd / whatever are immaterial to this thread. I'll be brutally honest, your opening post makes a classic example of TLDR. Sorry to be blunt.

nibtrix

You say your boss is “oblivious” to what’s going on, have you tried telling him? Have you said “I can’t do my job without proper training etc. which I am not receiving, please do something about it”?

Doctors room ghost

If you hate the place and the people in it as much as you say,leave and try something else.
But don’t leave until you have another job to start guaranteed.
That’s all I can say.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

In a similar vein OP, your qualifications, degree / Phd / whatever are immaterial to this thread. I'll be brutally honest, your opening post makes a classic example of TLDR. Sorry to be blunt.

The reason I made the point I did, and I think echoed by xieann is that I feel that this is really a weight on your shoulders and I think that you are, understandably, reading much more in to this than is good for you.

Part of the way out of this is finding a more inclusive workplace, but another element is to be able to adapt to fit in in the workplace in which you, or any of us land'. The early times working with someone is all about both sides feeling each other out and we can feel that it is the job of the existing people to make us feel welcome but they too are in a new situation and might feel unsure or threatened or whatever. They may have been told that this new person coming in is going to change everything and understandably, that will make them nervous about their job security.

I'm not saying you are responsible entirely for the discomfort you have experienced, but that you will never find a company where everyone falls over themselves to include you or to invite you for tea or to show you everything from day one. And if you do, it could be more controlling or uncomfortable, imagine if someone said something like 'No, you can't go for tea at 10:15, we go at 10:00 here'.

Hi OP, I really feel for you, that's a horrible way to be treated and totally wrong but I've seen it happen and imo its usually a jealousy/fear reason, they feel threatened by you and also don't want anyone to bring attention to the fairly cushy set up they have going for themselves in their cosy corner. There's always a leader and the others go a long with it .

Definitely look for another job but don't pack this in until it suits your agenda, not theirs as they are trying to push you out.

You've realised that trying to fit in,asking questions etc. doesn't work so you need to change tack but its easier said than done.
Try and twist this back on them, ask your questions loudly and directly, when they give vague answers ask them to explain again in a non apologetic manner .Keep your tone even and don't rise to their taunting unhelpful replies. Apart from direct work reasons do not engage with them,act as if they're not there unless you have a query. Remember you're every bit as entitled to be there as they are,dont play their game and don't react to the shouting or smart remarks. Not easy I know but it works and will unsettle them. Go in tomorrow with your head held high and watch your back.

TLDR f**k them,overgrown entitled jealous bullies.

cantdecide

Just to respond the these two points:

I should have said 'too much detail about the company or even the industry. I thought it would be appropriate to explain why I feel the way I do using examples. I didn't want to expect readers to think I was being just over-sensitive. I wanted to show a pattern of poor behaviour on their part.

Deleted User wrote: »

In a similar vein OP, your qualifications, degree / Phd / whatever are immaterial to this thread.

Just wanted to establish that a) this job is important to me and I am serious about my career - I didn't just fall into this job. I feel like I have a lot riding on it.

Tell me how

cantdecide wrote: »

Just to respond the these two points:

I should have said 'too much detail about the company or even the industry. I thought it would be appropriate to explain why I feel the way I do using examples. I didn't want to expect readers to think I was being just over-sensitive. I wanted to show a pattern of poor behaviour on their part.



Just wanted to establish that a) this job is important to me and I am serious about my career - I didn't just fall into this job. I feel like I have a lot riding on it.

I read your piece and tried to be objective and honestly, I didn't see any behaviour on their part which could be actionable by HR or anyone else. Yes, HR could talk to them about their manner, but again, they would know that that came from you and then it is easy for them to do what they are specifically told to do by the company but you can be sure inviting you on break with them would not fall in to this category.

Could you step back (mentally) a bit and see if you can find a way to connect with them if looking for a new role is not something you want to pursue at this point?
Sometimes, the personal connection or conversation can be enough to change our work relationship engagements significantly.

I'm not suggesting you are at fault here, but trying to suggest you do what you can for them to feel more comfortable in engaging with you, if nothing else, if this persists and you decide to talk to management, you will be able to say, 'Look, I made an effort here'. It certainly could get to the point where you need to talk to them but it will definitely introduce some tension with no guarantee of a positive outcome when it happens.

Diziet

What does your manager do? Any interaction or check ins at all?

kathleen37

Jees. You don't even have a workstation and that is the responsibility of your manager, not the guys you're working with.

When you speak to the manager, you need to lay out your issues. Firstly, a place to work, ideally with the other two; the more you're with them the more you will learn. Training - who's responsibility is that? Are they aware? Have they agreed? What is the format, ie, can there be a checklist to make sure everything is covered and nothing missed? Get this signed off by all parties.

I appreciate you're in a difficult situation, but from the point of view of your colleagues, they have a new team member and it appears there has been no discussion from the manager in regard to how and who is going to train you. That isn't down to them. Rightly or wrongly, they are probably as peed off as you are.

You seem really keen which is excellent. Dealing with difficult situations comes with experience, so just try and take the wider view and see how other people, including your manager, may be looking at things. COVER YOUR BACK. For example, annoying, but you've already learned that you take your laptop to ALL meetings, even if you're told not to. Do not be confrontational. Just say, "yeah thanks, I'll take it just in case - you know how they can drop stuff on us"

Good luck, I hope you get sorted. If not, I would really suggest looking for something else.

Augme

Did they end up setting a trap anyway?

Ultimately from what you describe there isn't really anything HR can do. It sounds that while your manager might be a very nice person, he also doesn't seem hugely competent at his job either.

I think your frustrations should be directed at him more than the other two.

cloudatlas

This is ridiculous. I'm sick of clicking into threads like this where the person is being mistreated and on the verge of health problems and they are told 'oh this is bad but don't say anything, be afraid, be very afraid and look for a new job because it's not your fault but it is your fault'.

You are already miserable, they can make it worse but at this stage it is all relative. You are being bullied and you need to take all of this information to your boss and if he doesn't investigate properly go to H.R. No work station, not being trained properly, being sworn at, excluded, being pushed into a meeting without proper equipment and then the implied nasty phone call at the end. Bunch of out and out dickheads!

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

This is ridiculous. I'm sick of clicking into threads like this where the person is being mistreated and on the verge of health problems and they are told 'oh this is bad but don't say anything, be afraid, be very afraid and look for a new job because it's not your fault but it is your fault'.

You are already miserable, they can make it worse but at this stage it is all relative. You are being bullied and you need to take all of this information to your boss and if he doesn't investigate properly go to H.R. No work station, not being trained properly, being sworn at, excluded, being pushed into a meeting without proper equipment and then the implied nasty phone call at the end. Bunch of out and out dickheads!

Don't know about anyone else who posted, but my experience involves 10 years as a manager of a dept which was made up of between 10 and 20 people during that time frame. As such, and given how numbers fluctuated over time, new people came in, others left and people were concerned about their authority, their roles and responsibility and their considerations for their own career paths etc, I feel I am in a position to offer objective advice on this situation based on the information offered. The staff which I managed operated both in an office and factory floor environment and this is an additional reason I feel in a position to contribute.

Nothing the OP has indicated is absolute evidence of bullying, it could be, if we were to know the full story but so far, in my view there is no evidence of that.

Some times these threads can appear to be more about supporting someone than offering constructive advice and while I recognize the importance of support, I don't see a value in misrepresenting any situation. That will probably only make things worse eventually.

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't know about anyone else who posted, but my experience involves 10 years as a manager of a dept which was made up of between 10 and 20 people during that time frame. As such, and given how numbers fluctuated over time, new people came in, others left and people were concerned about their authority, their roles and responsibility and their considerations for their own career paths etc, I feel I am in a position to offer objective advice on this situation based on the information offered. The staff which I managed operated both in an office and factory floor environment and this is an additional reason I feel in a position to contribute.

Nothing the OP has indicated is absolute evidence of bullying, it could be, if we were to know the full story but so far, in my view there is no evidence of that.

Some times these threads can appear to be more about supporting someone than offering constructive advice and while I recognize the importance of support, I don't see a value in misrepresenting any situation. That will probably only make things worse eventually.

If he went to his boss, his boss could step in and arrange proper training, they could provide him with a work station and they could have a chat with the people who are behaving poorly and let them know that their behaviour has been noted.

I'm not a manager but I know someone who is a psychologist who works for a multinational across many countries and is brought in on these cases and she said as soon as you are spoken to in a manner that is not acceptable e.g. swearing the onus is on you to tell the other person that if they speak to you like that again then you will take it further.

She didn't say take out a log book and write everything down so you can accumulate evidence and wait for a nervous breakdown, she said deal with it immediately and sort it, if the behaviour doesn't change then escalate. She also said that some people mistake bullying for someone being direct or even harassing you either physically or verbally but she said that there can be many forms and also small incidents and that the only thing to do is act immediately to prevent it happening further. He has been set up to fail, pushed into a meeting without proper equipment in order to be humiliated, sworn at, not provided with a space, not trained properly I mean for gods sake he needs to approach management at least about not having a work station and to ask about what the training timeline is etc.,

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

If he went to his boss, his boss could step in and arrange proper training, they could provide him with a work station and they could have a chat with the people who are behaving poorly and let them know that their behaviour has been noted.

I'm not a manager but I know someone who is a psychologist who works for a multinational across many countries and is brought in on these cases and she said as soon as you are spoken to in a manner that is not acceptable e.g. swearing the onus is on you to tell the other person that if they speak to you like that again then you will take it further.

She didn't say take out a log book and write everything down so you can accumulate evidence and wait for a nervous breakdown, she said deal with it immediately and sort it, if the behaviour doesn't change then escalate. She also said that some people mistake bullying for someone being direct or even harassing you either physically or verbally but she said that there can be many forms and also small incidents and that the only thing to do is act immediately to prevent it happening further. He has been set up to fail, pushed into a meeting without proper equipment in order to be humiliated, sworn at, not provided with a space, not trained properly I mean for gods sake he needs to approach management at least about not having a work station and to ask about what the training timeline is etc.,

This bit in bold is the key point, these staff members would then know that the OP has complained about them, and as I already pointed out, would likely engage with them purely as they must do in line with their contract and I guarantee absolutely every engagement then would be by the book, non personal and there would not be any relationship in the form of shared tea breaks or anything else which helps a person feel comfortable in their workplace.

The meeting situation is not ideal, but again, not really an issue and the lesson has been learned and a previous poster outlined perfectly how to handle that going forward.

The workstation issue, absolutely, raise that with someone in a position to act on it.

There is one other element to this, it seems the OP is new in the company and as such is likely still on probation, their employment can be terminated without explanation within this period and I would suggest that were they to make such complaints resulting in their coworkers being spoken to at this point that them being successful in progressing through probation might be in doubt. Swearing etc is not a pleasant work environment and maybe management could speak to people and not disclose the OP brought it to their attention but there is no guarantee that would happen either.

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

This bit in bold is the key point, these staff members would then know that the OP has complained about them, and as I already pointed out, would likely engage with them purely as they must do in line with their contract and I guarantee absolutely every engagement then would be by the book, non personal and there would not be any relationship in the form of shared tea breaks or anything else which helps a person feel comfortable in their workplace.

The meeting situation is not ideal, but again, not really an issue and the lesson has been learned and a previous poster outlined perfectly how to handle that going forward.

The workstation issue, absolutely, raise that with someone in a position to act on it.

There is one other element to this, it seems the OP is new in the company and as such is likely still on probation, their employment can be terminated without explanation within this period and I would suggest that were they to make such complaints resulting in their coworkers being spoken to at this point that them being successful in progressing through probation might be in doubt.

Exactly they would know he complained and it would be a shot across their bow. It is already a hostile work environment. He is in there to do a good job and be able to get through his day not to be best buds. They have already let him know that they don't want to be friendly and that he should let them treat him how they like.

If the complaint is made in a professional manner then there is no way that there should be any prejudice shown to the O.P with regard to his progression. On the contrary saying that you are concerned that your work is being affected by a hostile work environment should under normal management lead to positive changes.

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

Exactly they would know he complained and it would be a shot across their bow. It is already a hostile work environment. He is in there to do a good job and be able to get through his day not to be best buds. They have already let him know that they don't want to be friendly and that he should let them treat him how they like.

If the complaint is made in a professional manner then there is no way that there should be any prejudice shown to the O.P with regard to his progression. On the contrary saying that you are concerned that your work is being affected by a hostile work environment should under normal management lead to positive changes.

If these workers already felt at risk in relation to a new person coming in and the potential impact on their roles which quite possibly is the case based on their behaviour as outlined, them finding out that 'someone' has fired a shot across their bows will indeed lead to changes but in my experience it will be most likely that they will put up a bigger wall and lead the OP to fend on their own.

If this were a larger dept or group of people it would be easier to have a chat with a direct supervisor and maybe be put working more closely with other team members who there might be a better connection with but that option doesn't seem available here.

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

If these workers already felt at risk in relation to a new person coming in and the potential impact on their roles which quite possibly is the case based on their behaviour as outlined, them finding out that 'someone' has fired a shot across their bows will indeed lead to changes but in my experience it will be most likely that they will put up a bigger wall and lead the OP to fend on their own.

If this were a larger dept or group of people it would be easier to have a chat with a direct supervisor and maybe be put working more closely with other team members who there might be a better connection with but that option doesn't seem available here.

Right now the best that he can hope for is that they will engage him in a professional manner that allows him to get on with his job without these silly incidents so his only option is to go to management. Also the case can be made that if he doesn't say anything and they try to sabotage him so he doesn't pass his probation the history of their behaviour won't be known to management if he doesn't report it.

The wall is already there, it doesn't matter the size of it. The day to day behaviour of these colleagues is not acceptable end of story.

Augme

If you go to HR don't expect to last long in the place. You are on an open ended temp contract. Going to HR is not going to be a good look most likely.

It is ****ty but then again so is life. The time of HR is to protect the organisation, not necessarily to make the work place fun and enjoyable for all.

If you have two permeant long term who say the same thing and you have one brand new temp says something else then HR are going have to pick a side and it ain't going to be the side of the temp.

Not pleasant and not the morally "right" thing to do but that all too often is normally what happens in these situations.

cloudatlas

Augme wrote: »

If you go to HR don't expect to last long in the place. You are on an open ended temp contract. Going to HR is not going to be a good look most likely.

It is ****ty but then again so is life. The time of HR is to protect the organisation, not necessarily to make the work place fun and enjoyable for all.

If you have two permeant long term who say the same thing and you have one brand new temp says something else then HR are going have to pick a side and it ain't going to be the side of the temp.

Not pleasant and not the morally "right" thing to do but that all too often is normally what happens in these situations.

Has anyone any evidence of someone going to h.r. about bullying and then being fired or had their contract curtailed etc., because I've worked in several different organisations in three different countries and I've never seen that happen.

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

Has anyone any evidence of someone going to h.r. about bullying and then being fired or had their contract curtailed etc., because I've worked in several different organisations in three different countries and I've never seen that happen.

You are missing the point that adjudication on these matters will likely come down to the verbal evidence of the participants and as such will likely be 2:1 in favour of the long term staff.

And that's not to say this would be right, or wrong but the likely direction it would go in.
The best outcome of this would probably be a request that everyone tries to accommodate each other but after that the long term staff would like very much, 'work to rule'.

Given this, a decision that the OP is not the right fit for the company isa very likely outcome in my experience. This wouldn't be that they'd be fired, but simply an acknowledgement that it wasnt working out and to utilise the option open to them via probation window or the fact that it's a short term contract.

That is if those options are available.

None of this is a judge on the OP, just an opinion the situation.

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

You are missing the point that adjudication on these matters will likely come down to the verbal evidence of the participants and as such will likely be 2:1 in favour of the long term staff.

And that's not to say this would be right, or wrong but the likely direction it would go in.
The best outcome of this would probably be a request that everyone tries to accommodate each other but after that the long term staff would like very much, 'work to rule'.

Given this, a decision that the OP is not the right fit for the compis a very likely outcome in my experience. This wouldn't be that they'd be fired, but simply an acknowledgement that it wasnt working out and to utilise the option open to them via probation window or the fact that it's a short term contract.

That is if those options are available.

Well how long is the O.P.'s probation then as that seems to be the main impediment to him reporting this bullying and it is bullying make no mistake about it.

The problem is that I have spoken to someone who says you don't need evidence (a witness) to report a problem and that if you only needed evidence to improve a situation then workplaces would be absolutely and unbelievably unbearable to work in. The o.p has a log book of incidents at this stage more than enough to raise eyebrows and cause a change in behaviour.

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

Well how long is the O.P.'s probation then as that seems to be the main impediment to him reporting this bullying and it is bullying make no mistake about it.

The problem is that I have spoken to someone who says you don't need evidence (a witness) to report a problem and that if you only needed evidence to improve a situation then workplaces would be absolutely and unbelievably unbearable to work in. The o.p has a log book of incidents at this stage more than enough to raise eyebrows and cause a change in behaviour.

The op has a log book of subjective incidents. Aside from the work desk, none of the rest are enough to guarantee a particular action.

How do you think the company should proceed if the OP reports it officially? Take their word, or get the opinions of others?

What do you think their opinions would be, and what then?

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

The op has a log book of subjective incidents. Aside from the work desk, none of the rest are enough to guarantee a particular action.

How do you think the company should proceed if the OP reports it officially? Take their word, or get the opinions of others?

What do you think their opinions would be, and what then?

He is going to his manager first and then there is mediation I assume.
Why did the psychologist I spoke to say warn the individual that you will report it to management and if they don't stop report it to management. They never said that you needed evidence. The goal is not to get people removed from their position the goal is to prevent the pattern of behaviour and stop the bullying. I'm sorry I don't understand at this stage why you can't understand that.

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

He is going to his manager first and then there is mediation I assume.
Why did the psychologist I spoke to say warn the individual that you will report it to management and if they don't stop report it to management. They never said that you needed evidence. The goal is not to get people removed from their position the goal is to prevent the pattern of behaviour and stop the bullying. I'm sorry I don't understand at this stage why you can't understand that.

I suspect because the person you spoke to assumed that this is definitively bullying behaviour rather than the ambiguous interactions outlined.

None of the above is evidence that that is what is going on here.

Even asking 'how's your friend' is quite benign, if there was active dislike there, the term used would probably have been more forceful and the person sitting with the OP would have deflected rather than mention that they were there and therefore acknowledging that they were referring to them in a particular way.

We've given the OP plenty of alternative views here, would be interesting if they gave an update but understandably many of these threads don't go all the way to a conclusion.

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

I suspect because the person you spoke to assumed that this is definitively bullying behaviour rather than the ambiguous interactions outlined.

None of the above is evidence that that is what is going on here.

Even asking 'how's your friend' is quite benign, if there was active dislike there, the term used would probably have been more forceful and the person sitting with the OP would have deflected rather than mention that they were there and therefore acknowledging that they were referring to them in a particular way.

We've given the OP plenty of alternative views here, would be interesting if they gave an update but understandably many of these threads don't go all the way to a conclusion.

Nope they said you can go to management and the behaviour swearing etc., would be included and this person was an expert with years of experience in this area.

All the O.P. has to say is 'I feel bullied' and that is enough for the manager to ask further questions.

The term used was 'Buddy' it was said in a mocking way as the opposite was implied. Yeah, sorry but in my experience what you are saying is incorrect.

The O.P has enough information now but he can go to management if he needs to and he doesn't need 'evidence' or a 'witness' to raise concerns that is nonsense.

Tell me how

cloudatlas wrote: »

Nope they said you can go to management and the behaviour swearing etc., would be included and this person was an expert with years of experience in this area.

All the O.P. has to say is 'I feel bullied' and that is enough for the manager to ask further questions.

The term used was 'Buddy' it was said in a mocking way as the opposite was implied. Yeah, sorry but in my experience what you are saying is incorrect.

The O.P has enough information now but he can go to management if he needs to and he doesn't need 'evidence' or a 'witness' to raise concerns that is nonsense.

I'll ignore my ten years experience of people management in changing and challenging environments in which roles and responsibility frequently required specific attention so.

Unless you were one of the people on the call, you have no idea about the tone that was used.

At this point you seem intent in your position being proven to be the right one. I don't care what is right, I'm just giving my opinion based on experience rather than an opinion formed with a friend involving information shared on an anonymous website from someone who really, through no fault of their own, would find it very hard to be entirely objective.

You are giving very dangerous advice if you think it is as simple as the OP only having to say they are bullied and that it will play out in their favour. I hope they consider this in detail before making a decision to do so.

LilacNails

Any update op?

cloudatlas

Tell me how wrote: »

I'll ignore my ten years experience of people management in changing and challenging environments in which roles and responsibility frequently required specific attention so.

Unless you were one of the people on the call, you have no idea about the tone that was used.

At this point you seem intent in your position being proven to be the right one. I don't care what is right, I'm just giving my opinion based on experience rather than an opinion formed with a friend involving information shared on an anonymous website from someone who really, through no fault of their own, would find it very hard to be entirely objective.

You are giving very dangerous advice if you think it is as simple as the OP only having to say they are bullied and that it will play out in their favour. I hope they consider this in detail before making a decision to do so.

The dangerous advice is to encourage someone to ruin their mental and by extension physical health by advising them to attempt to pander to a group of bullies who have already let the O.P. know their intention. Based on my years of EXPERIENCE I've seen people have mental breakdowns because of poor management, the type that ignores warning signs, down plays incidents and allows hostile work environments to thrive. People don't leave bad jobs they leave bad managers.

Three pages of posts, with all kinds of “advice” based on conjecture. Three days later either nothing happened or the op has forgot about the thread. But carry on, give it another day and he will have a cast iron case for bullying/UD, but will have to wait until release from psychiatric care to file a claim.

I know it’s not a requirement, but it certainly helps a thread when the op updates on the reason for starting the thread.

kathleen37

I too wouldn't mention bullying - at the moment.

It is possible to change these situations, and I absolutely agree that they need to be dealt with immediate, rather than letting things escalate.

I once went into a job, as a contractor, at a place I'd previously worked at (non contract) for years. The woman I was working for hated me on sight. Really. Any crappy little thing she could do to make life difficult for me, she did it/said it. But you know what? Turns out she was terrified of my presence, thinking I was being brought in to become her replacement (I wasn't) To get the situation sorted, it took me letting her know, very smiley, I was in no way taking any rubbish, I was there to do a job, and I hoped we could both be professional and get on with it. We didn't need to be friends but it couldn't be doing her mental health any good the amount of hostility she was showing me. Did we become friends? No. But we did manage to work together, even go out to lunch together.

Having said all that, I'm an old bird that has years of work/management/contracting experience. I can imagine this situation is pretty awful for someone without that. It was certainly no picnic for me.

The point being, if you can try and have the wider view, try see things how others may be seeing them, that may give you the resource to try and sort this yourself. If that doesn't work then either look for something else (unless you're getting paid huge, or there are benefits you can't bear to lose) as life is too short. If you do want to stay, then take to HR. You will need to document everything, every rubbish exchange, who was present, etc. But I have to say, my experience is that more than not, not much good will come of that route.

I hope the OP comes back to update. I wish them well. Work stress is rubbish.

Errashareesh

So what if the OP is TL;DR - it's very thorough and informative which is surely fair (bet they'd be chastised for not going into detail).

OP, please look elsewhere. That is an awful place. Don't bother with HR or management (the system is not set up for you to be helped when you're just there short term). Just do what you can to get out.

This is not good for your mental wellbeing. They are dreadful (you are not in the wrong, no matter how much they gaslight you). I was in a similar situation too and went back to my old workplace. May be seen as a step backwards but the relief and benefits to my mental wellbeing were worth every bit. No more sleepless nights, no more utter dread of the mornings, no more walking on eggshells, or second guessing myself, or feeling my self esteem being chipped away.

There is an increase in pharma work for obvious reasons - get searching!

beauf

The people as described are broken and there is no way of fixing that.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of it. Even if you "win" this battle, you will never want to stay there. best you'll achieve is make it tolerable. Whats the point of that.

cantdecide

Soooo.... many months later.

The day I was going to approach my boss to basically tell him I'd had enough, he literally told me 'hey, this person called in sick and you need to cover them in their dept elsewhere'. I'll never forget the relief, even though I was concerned what had been said by the other two to cause this. I wasn't really needed over there.

I was actually left in this new dept for a couple of weeks and my colleagues there were nothing but great to me and immediately, my learning began. There was a bit of an unexpected poop-storm elsewhere in the company under our department so I was moved over there to help out. That would have been last September and I've been there since. Once again, I landed wonderful colleagues that have treated me like an equal and things have gotten better and better. This week, I'm covering a 30yr veteran for their week off, well in my stride. The boss things the sun shines. His boss is praising me up and down for my contribution and my whole work life is peace, love and happiness. I've had a couple of raises - I'm earning more than I ever have before. Everything is going great.

In hindsight, I reckon it was very simple - the other two bozos just wanted to be left alone to do things the way they always have. They initially played along with the plan to expand the team and so played the game. No one replaced me on that team after I left. The conclusion for me is that sometimes, it simply is the other people. I've done nothing different in this job compared to any other ones. I do the same things and get wildly different results depending on the environment. Go figure.

So what would I advise my past self - be luckier. I've had a bad run with these sorts of eejits in several jobs. I've always helped new people in any job wherever I was but I've realised that this is actually not as common a thing as you'd hope. If you're reading this and in similar position, my advise is simply do the brave thing and move, even if it means temporarily moving away from your goals. Some people are just a*seholes and often they have dominion in their little worlds that even their seniors can't interfere with. Vote with your feet. Don't shorten your life. Get out and start a new chapter.