Why are council estates such high crime areas?

gailforecast

If everyone’s the same, why should it make a difference?

howamidifferent

Because people who get stuff for nothing have no appreciation for anything. Those that work hard for their money appreciate everything.

smellyoldboot

Exactly as above. Worse even , not only are the houses largely inhabited by those essentially getting them for free( minimal rent paid from state support) but fraud is absolutely rife. You wouldn't believe the amount of ducking and diving that goes on. It's endemic.

I'd say it's less a case of "a few bad eggs" and more you might get the odd decent apple from a thoroughly rotten bushel.

Source : I live in a nearly entirely council owned street.

biko

Some people just don't want to travel for their crimes.

The Unbearables

howamidifferent wrote: »

Because people who get stuff for nothing have no appreciation for anything. Those that work hard for their money appreciate everything.

You pay rent on council houses so bang goes your argument.

Padraig Mor

The Unbearables wrote: »

You pay rent on council houses so bang goes your argument.

Some people pay rent on council houses. The majority in Dublin are in arrears.

Could you post links to those statistics?
What type of crimes?

boombang

Anybody with money spends it to live in a low crime neighbourhood. The public authorities are soft on crime. If you are poor you have no choice but to stay living in the area with crime.

boombang

The Unbearables wrote: »

You pay rent on council houses so bang goes your argument.

Social rents are next to nothing compared to private market rents. Everyone knows that.

Richard Hillman

Crap parents. Low expectations. Poor family role models. Exasperated by having friends who also have crap parents, low expectations and poor family role models.

It genuinely only takes 1 or 2 houses in an entire estate to bring the whole thing down. Youths do not get punished for crimes anymore, they are sent on "Youth Diversion Schemes", which are absolutely nonsense.

The problem eventually gets worse as all of the normal kids, finish school get themselves jobs and eventually move out of the estates to a nicer area.

We don't have a conveyor belt of criminals here like they do in America and now the UK. Its the same people committing the same crimes, in the same places.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Because they are populated by the dregs of society.

Limpy

Government policy.

Conall Cernach

Poverty is one of the major factors in crime. If you're in a council house you are usually in a lower income bracket as are your neighbours. Though in all honesty there are some people I know in social housing who even if they were on 100k per year would probably still be committing crimes and engaging in anti social behaviour.

James Brown

Most if not all of you have parents or grandparents came from council housing. Let that sink in my Tory friends.
Poor people are more likely to commit more blue collar crimes. Its not all for fun. If it was it wouldn't be mostly confined to low/no income neighbourhoods. Arseholes come from every demographic.
Read up on socio-economics.
Some pure ignorance on here. Its shameful the 'I'm alright jack go **** yourself' attitude.

Montage of Feck

Obviously it's the lack of state funded moto-x tracks and pony stables.

James Brown

boombang wrote: »

Social rents are next to nothing compared to private market rents. Everyone knows that.

Thats great. No point putting poor people in luxury apartments...oh wait...

Tenzor07

Limpy wrote: »

Government policy.

There you have it, the majority of people living in council estates are normal working people... When the council have problem families they will load them into a house in one of the estates they own and it's almost impossible to get them out as the council would have an obligation to house them.
Problem is then you can get clusters of families who will destroy an entire area with their behavior.

Councils need a confidential helpline number for complaints about anti-social behavior, drug dealing etc. and a report from the Gardai which would eliminate the councils obligations to house trouble tenants.

But don't be fooled, plenty of private housing estates have everything from drug dealers, to tax evaders, and financial fraudsters.
When you see pictures of CAB raiding homes it's usually in nice quiet private estates.

briany

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It genuinely only takes 1 or 2 houses in an entire estate to bring the whole thing down. Youths do not get punished for crimes anymore, they are sent on "Youth Diversion Schemes", which are absolutely nonsense.

People like to put the blame on the authorities for youths being let away with crimes. I don't really think it's that much to do with them, in fact. There's been a strong move away from the communal raising of a child over the last 50 years or so. So to illustrate the contrast,

1950s child is in a neighbours garden messing with their gate and kicking their cat. Neighbour comes out, grabs the child by the ear and marches them down to their parents house and explains what the child was doing. The parents take this at face value and punish the child accordingly.

2000s child is in a neighbours garden messing with their gate and kicking their cat. Neighbour comes out, grabs the child by the ear and marches them down to their parents house and explains what the child was doing. The parents have barely spoken to this neighbour in the 10 years they've lived on the same street and are horrified that their child has been assaulted by a veritable stranger. Child is comforted while the threat of charges against the neighbour is made.

The net result is that people are generally afraid to say boo to neighbours kids when they misbehave as it will end much worse for the them than for the kid if they were to clatter the child. That's a change that's been driven by the people.

OneEightSeven

Council estates are mostly populated by the stupid, the lazy, the violent, and the uneducated. Poverty in the communities is self-imposed by their own genetics.

SEPT 23 1989

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Council estates are mostly populated by the stupid, the lazy, the violent, and the uneducated. Poverty in the communities is self-imposed by their own genetics.

Im glad those with less than superman grade genetics have somewhere to live

In another timeline they would be dead

Thank god we are where we are

gailforecast

Bowie wrote: »

Most if not all of you have parents or grandparents came from council housing. Let that sink in my Tory friends.
Poor people are more likely to commit more blue collar crimes. Its not all for fun. If it was it wouldn't be mostly confined to low/no income neighbourhoods. Arseholes come from every demographic.
Read up on socio-economics.
Some pure ignorance on here. Its shameful the 'I'm alright jack go **** yourself' attitude.

You get what you put in I’m afraid. Work hard, work smart, and you’ll be rewarded. Sit on the dole, we’ll that’s another story.

Limpy

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Council estates are mostly populated by the stupid, the lazy, the violent, and the uneducated. Poverty in the communities is self-imposed by their own genetics.

How did you escape?

SEPT 23 1989

gailforecast wrote: »

You get what you put in I’m afraid. Work hard, work smart, and you’ll be rewarded. Sit on the dole, we’ll that’s another story.

Very true

But what about sickness bereavement depression etc when ones life goes wrong

Where are those people to go?

Fred Cryton

gailforecast wrote: »

If everyone’s the same, why should it make a difference?

Everyone is not the same, who told you that?



The crowd around Sheriff Street / North Wall would make a good case study for an anthropologist. They have been inter-breeding for generations. They are pretty much their own distinct ethnic sub-group at this stage. Certain genetic characteristics have been inherited ( low attention span, impulsiveness, lack of discipline, low IQ, aggression)...all of these have a large genetic component.



It's the lie that "we are all the same" which fools people into thinking these people will change if they're given a chance. They will never change, it's written in their DNA. Dublin has a real problem given their rate of reproduction and the huge concentration in the inner city. Best solution is gentrification and forcing them out through market forces. Break up these failed communities.

Eric Cartman

A lack of willingness to engage with gardai, a lack of respect, a lack of personal responsibility . I could go on, its the residents fault and nobody else is to blame, in sure somebody will be along to bang on about if they had a swimming pool but thats absolute crap, its the residents own fault

at9qu5vp0wcix7

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Poverty is one of the major factors in crime. If you're in a council house you are usually in a lower income bracket as are your neighbours. Though in all honesty there are some people I know in social housing who even if they were on 100k per year would probably still be committing crimes and engaging in anti social behaviour.

Poverty for the most part is a choice in Ireland.

Also, there is a misconception that council estate = poverty. Many people in these areas have considerably more disposable income than an average earner. They generally don't have costs such as mortgage/rent and childcare, student loans etc. Often they have a second source of income through some kind of undocumented work (varying levels of legality). Others do work and bought their home from the council for a small cost, and are now financially free with a lot of disposable income.

completedit

Just saw a video of that Chinese women being pushed into the canal. A grown up women pushed into a ****ing river by 3 scrotes and then they get a huge laugh from their mates. It's weird actually, you hear one or two of them say 'boys', which effectively is the ones with a bit higher empathy knowing what they've done but their character and role models are so **** that a lame 'boys' is all they can say.

starbaby2003

There is a council estate across the road from us and houses go for over 500K. Wouldn’t say people would willingly be paying that to leave in a ‘dump’. It’s like everything, there are scales. Some estates are rough some aren’t. Location has a massive influence on it. The old saying if leaving in the worst house in the best estate can translate to the worst estate in the best area. Kids brought up there see success, they make connections they know things are achievable. Kids brought up in bad areas often don’t get that those opportunities coupled with an address from undesirable area.

The Unbearables

boombang wrote: »

Social rents are next to nothing compared to private market rents. Everyone knows that.

Thanks. So we agree.

The Unbearables

completedit wrote: »

Just saw a video of that Chinese women being pushed into the canal. A grown up women pushed into a ****ing river by 3 scrotes and then they get a huge laugh from their mates. It's weird actually, you hear one or two of them say 'boys', which effectively is the ones with a bit higher empathy knowing what they've done but their character and role models are so **** that a lame 'boys' is all they can say.

And that's got exactly what to do with this thread?

Limpy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A lack of willingness to engage with gardai, a lack of respect, a lack of personal responsibility . I could go on, its the residents fault and nobody else is to blame, in sure somebody will be along to bang on about if they had a swimming pool but thats absolute crap, its the residents own fault

That's bull

The Unbearables

starbaby2003 wrote: »

There is a council estate across the road from us and houses go for over 500K. Wouldn’t say people would willingly be paying that to leave in a ‘dump’. It’s like everything, there are scales. Some estates are rough some aren’t. Location has a massive influence on it. The old saying if leaving in the worst house in the best estate can translate to the worst estate in the best area. Kids brought up there see success, they make connections they know things are achievable. Kids brought up in bad areas often don’t get that those opportunities coupled with an address from undesirable area.

And people judging them just because of where they live. This thread is proof enough of that.

gailforecast

completedit wrote: »

Just saw a video of that Chinese women being pushed into the canal. A grown up women pushed into a ****ing river by 3 scrotes and then they get a huge laugh from their mates. It's weird actually, you hear one or two of them say 'boys', which effectively is the ones with a bit higher empathy knowing what they've done but their character and role models are so **** that a lame 'boys' is all they can say.

That’s actually what was the inspiration for this thread. Chinese immigrant, probably working and studying in a strange foreign country. These lads are from the nations capital, have the best education and opportunities the country has to offer on their doorstep, yet will still wear the fact that they’re wasting their lives as a badge of honour.

The Unbearables

gailforecast wrote: »

That’s actually what was the inspiration for this thread. Chinese immigrant, probably working and studying in a strange foreign country. These lads are from the nations capital, have the best education and opportunities the country has to offer on their doorstep, yet will still wear the fact that they’re wasting their lives as a badge of honour.

Again what's that got to do with the thread title?

starbaby2003

The Unbearables wrote: »

And people judging them just because of where they live. This thread is proof enough of that.

They certainly don’t here. How would you know who was a private V council tenant. My point was more association is key. This is why building a certain percentage of social housing in new estates is vital. Eventually ( I hope ) the stigma is removed. Integration helps all society.

ronivek

Some truly vile and narrow-minded opinions in this thread altogether.

Maybe try a little self reflection and imagine how your life might have gone if you were raised in a broken home; or if your peers growing up had such a broken home and their behaviours influenced yours in a negative way.

Or maybe imagine living in a household with no money and feeling pressured to seek paying work over and above engaging with your education; either because you can't see any prospects ahead of you or because it's just what your mates are doing and you don't want to be left out when they go for a few cans at the weekend.

Do you think babies born into broken homes are genetically predisposed to not stay in education or to lack respect for authority or society? No; it's because of the environment they're raised in.

I live in a rough estate. It's actually not a bad old spot. I'd say easily 80-90% of people living here are grand, 'keep the head down and get on with it' kind of people

The amount of people that cause trouble are fairly small, but they tend to recruit a lot of easily-lead followers. The problem is, there is simply NO punishment for them acting the bollocks. People in the estate can't do anything as the normal people would be the ones in trouble with the Gardai if they did anything to the scum, the scum are well aware that they Gardai can't punish them, so they don't give a ****e about the Gardai, and the parents are so completely useless that the thoughts of the Gardai bringing the child home is 'mad craic' rather than the wake up it should be that your child is scum.


One week of the US-styed 'no nonsense' policing would change Ireland in a heart beat. The scum over here have no backbone or spine. They would be bawling their eyes crying at a good hiding, but the Gardai aren't allowed to do it, and the scum know that.

Hence scramber bikes taunting Gardai and scum telling Gardai they'll beat them up and give them a kicking. Look at that "Inside The K" show. That's the problem with most 'disadvantaged' estates. Bunch of scumbags who are anything but disadvantaged, doing what they want, with no repercussions.

gailforecast

The Unbearables wrote: »

Again what's that got to do with the thread title?

What do you mean “again”? You’ve never asked that in the first place.

But since you asked, I’d be 99% sure these scumbags are for Dolphins Barn or the Crumlin area.

ronivek

ronivek wrote: »

Some truly vile and narrow-minded opinions in this thread altogether.

Maybe try a little self reflection and imagine how your life might have gone if you were raised in a broken home; or if your peers growing up had such a broken home and their behaviours influenced yours in a negative way.

Or maybe imagine living in a household with no money and feeling pressured to seek paying work over and above engaging with your education; either because you can't see any prospects ahead of you or because it's just what your mates are doing and you don't want to be left out when they go for a few cans at the weekend.

Do you think babies born into broken homes are genetically predisposed to not stay in education or to lack respect for authority or society? No; it's because of the environment they're raised in.

Nonsense post with nothing based on reality in it.

I've a sibling who is the stereotype of most of these scum. There is no broken home sob-story and there certainly isn't a need for them to look for work (never had a job).

Yet they have a nicer house than me, in an area far away from the sh/thole they grew up in, because they played the system and got all the freebies along the way.

Every day there are people who have broken homes and can't get work, they don't ride scramblers around and have bonfires beside their neighbours houses, break into local businesses and threaten the Gardai.

ThunbergsAreGo

Limpy wrote: »

Government policy.

No personal responsibility

The Unbearables

gailforecast wrote: »

What do you mean “again”? You’ve never asked that in the first place.

But since you asked, I’d be 99% sure these scumbags are for Dolphins Barn or the Crumlin area.

Post 30. Please keep up.

It also infuriates me, that you can still get a free council house, despite having active and ongoing criminal records. Any Garda issues should knock you to the bottom of the housing list, but the Council's have no interest in dealing with scum, either.


I also am of the belief that taking money from the government, to pay the council rent, is beyond stupid. It should be stopped at source for people claiming social welfare payments.

i know a woman with two teenagers (15 + 17) and she works part time. Her rent is €25 per week. How can anyone fall behind on that and think it's justifiable.

ronivek

Deleted User wrote: »

One week of the US-styed 'no nonsense' policing would change Ireland in a heart beat. The scum over here have no backbone or spine. They would be bawling their eyes crying at a good hiding, but the Gardai aren't allowed to do it, and they know that.

You're living in coo-coo land. Have a look at some of the ghettos or trailer parks in the USA and see how well that kind of approach works. Or even some of the small ****heel towns which relied on mining or industry and are now drug and crime riddled cesspools.

Or even talk to anyone who lived in some of the ****tier Dublin areas in the 60s/70s/80s when the Gardai did go around beating people; it didn't stop a ****ing thing other than making them run from the Gardai as opposed to stand there and verbally abuse them. It didn't help victims of crime in the ****ing slightest.

gailforecast

gailforecast wrote: »

What do you mean “again”? You’ve never asked that in the first place.

But since you asked, I’d be 99% sure these scumbags are for Dolphins Barn or the Crumlin area.

You do know there are private houses in those areas?
If you wanted a thread about the poor Asian woman being thrown in the canal, then why didn't you start that thread?

Sonic the Shaghog

Councils who are stuck with problem families and the fact most get away with so much crime

I've seen plenty of council estates west of Ireland. Nearly all grand and quiet worst would be some couples airing dirty laundry in public outside the house sort of thing

Then some knackbag family gets moved in and destroys the place with drugs, antisocial behaviour etc

Residents of estate spend years ringing Gardai and Council to be met by silence. Usually from what I've seen council only moves the family when locals snap and trash or worse the knack bags house. They move them to another part of the county for them to start trouble all over again

Council can't just evict them and say **** off no more social housing for ye as they are bound to house them

Then a suspended sentence after a sob story keeps them out of jail

Mad_maxx

starbaby2003 wrote: »

They certainly don’t here. How would you know who was a private V council tenant. My point was more association is key. This is why building a certain percentage of social housing in new estates is vital. Eventually ( I hope ) the stigma is removed. Integration helps all society.

Placing public housing within mostly private housing is pure ideology, nothing else

ronivek

ronivek wrote: »

You're living in coo-coo land. Have a look at some of the ghettos or trailer parks in the USA and see how well that kind of approach works. Or even some of the small ****heel towns which relied on mining or industry and are now drug and crime riddled cesspools.

Or even talk to anyone who lived in some of the ****tier Dublin areas in the 60s/70s/80s when the Gardai did go around beating people; it didn't stop a ****ing thing other than making them run from the Gardai as opposed to stand there and verbally abuse them. It didn't help victims of crime in the ****ing slightest.

(This turned into a longer post than I expected)

The US is it's own basket case country with more than enough problems, but they do have aspects of policing down better than we do. The Gardai are a waste of time. The Police in the US might not have whole control of certain areas, and I don't doubt that they are incompetent in many ways themselves, but the typical Irish scummer is not up to a good beating.

It would absolutely change the way they behave. If you're aware that you're going to have to run from the Gardai, then you're not as likely to do things that will have them looking for you.

For example, I seen a while ago a Garda car pull into a street in my estate. There were approx 6-7 scumbags sitting on a wall beside the Garda car. The scum had recently arrived there (within 5-10 mins of them arriving, gardai arrived). Presumably the Gardai were looking for them for something they did wherever they were before they arrived at that spot.

The Garda car barely came to a stop, before one of the scummers got up, kicked the passenger door of the car (denting it) and told the Gardai (2 inside the car) to get out and he'd "box the fcuking head off him". After a few finger points from the Garda, and a lot more "come on out, come on!" from the scummer, the Gardai left.

I was fully sure that they would return within a few minutes with a barrage of other Gardai and tackle the scum and make an example out of them, especially the one that was keen to fight them. Instead, nothing happened. Not a thing. The Gardai weren't seen again and about an hour later the scumbags all went their own ways.

I can guarantee you, if the Gardai had a few more members, and were allowed give a hiding, that situation would simply not have occurred in the first place. As someone else said above - it's the same people, causing the same issues, in the same places, over and over again.

I'm not saying a beating is the only way forward, but the judiciary in this country are even more useless than the Gardai, so at least if they got a hiding it'd be an immediate punishment.


I'd rather see "anti social behaviour" be defined and punished by the judiciary and councils, but that's even less likely than a Garda giving them a clatter.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I live in a rough estate. It's actually not a bad old spot. I'd say easily 80-90% of people living here are grand, 'keep the head down and get on with it' kind of people

The amount of people that cause trouble are fairly small, but they tend to recruit a lot of easily-lead followers. The problem is, there is simply NO punishment for them acting the bollocks. People in the estate can't do anything as the normal people would be the ones in trouble with the Gardai if they did anything to the scum, the scum are well aware that they Gardai can't punish them, so they don't give a ****e about the Gardai, and the parents are so completely useless that the thoughts of the Gardai bringing the child home is 'mad craic' rather than the wake up it should be that your child is scum.


One week of the US-styed 'no nonsense' policing would change Ireland in a heart beat. The scum over here have no backbone or spine. They would be bawling their eyes crying at a good hiding, but the Gardai aren't allowed to do it, and the scum know that.

Hence scramber bikes taunting Gardai and scum telling Gardai they'll beat them up and give them a kicking. Look at that "Inside The K" show. That's the problem with most 'disadvantaged' estates. Bunch of scumbags who are anything but disadvantaged, doing what they want, with no repercussions.

the councils are handcuffed from doing anything by political correctness, if any of those scummers were evicted, assh0les like Paul Murphy, Ruth Coppinger and a plethora of journalist **** would be all over the local authority like a cheap suit , wailing about " the vulnerable " and how this is " Thatcherism " or other b0ll0cks

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the councils are handcuffed from doing anything by political correctness, if any of those scummers were evicted, assh0les like Paul Murphy, Ruth Coppinger and a plethora of journalist **** would be all over the local authority like a cheap suit , wailing about " the vulnerable " and how this is " Thatcherism " or other b0ll0cks

I am aware of that, but nonetheless they should still be evicted. The moaners will be in the minority I am sure.

The issue is, as the council's are well aware, they can't make these useless c/nts homeless. I seen a single woman wreck not one, not two, not three, but FOUR council houses. And each time she got evicted, she was immediately re-housed elsewhere.

She is in her 5th home now and I'm confident if I posted back again here in a year or so I'd be posting that she's in her 6th house.. :rolleyes:

coolbeans

The Unbearables wrote: »

You pay rent on council houses so bang goes your argument.

There's is widespread failure to pay council rents which directly affects Council's ability to provide sustainable social housing. I'm all for social housing but if you don't pay the already very reduced amount then fcuk ye. To compound the issue there's very little will or legal framework to get rid of the freeloaders so the tumour metastasises further and we get ****holes where nobody has any ownership or civic pride.

From 2019 so you can't blame Covid: "More than half the council’s 24,400 tenants are behind on their rent, with 20 per cent more than six months in arrears.

The council is owed more than €32.8 million by tenants, the largest sum ever owed to any local authority in unpaid rents, and an increase of more than €10 million over the last decade with €19.5 million owed in 2009.

However, until recently the council was unable to evict tenants who refused to pay. “Due to the absence of relevant court rules no applications for repossession could be made until June 2017,” the council said."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/first-dublin-city-council-social-housing-tenant-to-be-evicted-for-rent-arrears-1.4085923%3fmode=amp

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I am aware of that, but nonetheless they should still be evicted. The moaners will be in the minority I am sure.

The issue is, as the council's are well aware, they can't make these useless c/nts homeless. I seen a single woman wreck not one, not two, not three, but FOUR council houses. And each time she got evicted, she was immediately re-housed elsewhere.

She is in her 5th home now and I'm confident if I posted back again here in a year or so I'd be posting that she's in her 6th house.. :rolleyes:

She could wreck 66 tax payer funded houses and Kitty Holland would still devote a piece to her in the Irish Times