No more cheapies from China! Imports from outside EU pay full VAT from 1 Jan 2021.

paddy19

Apologies if this has been covered already.

The Revenue issued a new guideline for imports outside EU dated May 2020. (see attached page 8.).

The less than €22 exemption is gone.
The less than €6 VAT is also gone.

No more cheapie bargains from Aliexpress since An Post €10 fee and VAT will apply to everything.

"NOTE: Until 1st January 2021, no import VAT is due to be paid for goods with a
customs value below €22 imported into Ireland.
This exemption is abolished as of 1st January 2021. Thus, from 1st January 2021,
all goods entering the EU will be subject to VAT irrespective of their value.

If the VAT payable is €6 or less it will not be collected.
No similar rule applies in the case of Customs Duty or Excise Duty.

NOTE: This exemption is abolished as of 1st January 2021.
Thus, from 1st January 2021, all goods entering the EU will be subject to
VAT irrespective of the amount due and all VAT will be collected."

Did anyone see this change covered in the media?

JohnC.

paddy19 wrote: »

The less than €6 VAT is also gone.

I think you misread that bit

If the VAT payable is €6 or less it will not be collected.

Pkiernan

Good.

Maybe it'll stem the flow of cheap Chinese garbage flooding the country.

whiterebel

It has been covered a while back. I think Sweden were pushing it. If it applies to all EU, which I think it does, its a serious blow for China.

whiterebel

JohnC. wrote: »

I think you misread that bit

"If the VAT payable is €6 or less it will not be collected.
No similar rule applies in the case of Customs Duty or Excise Duty.

NOTE: This exemption is abolished as of 1st January 2021.
Thus, from 1st January 2021, all goods entering the EU will be subject to
VAT irrespective of the amount due and all VAT will be collected."

They will collect everything. No lower limit.

irelandrover

JohnC. wrote: »

I think you misread that bit

THats the old rule.

NOTE: This exemption is abolished as of 1st January 2021.
Thus, from 1st January 2021, all goods entering the EU will be subject to
VAT irrespective of the amount due and all VAT will be collected."

ArrBee

Pkiernan wrote: »

Good.

Maybe it'll stem the flow of cheap Chinese garbage flooding the country.

No it won't.
Wholesalers and resellers won't be impacted by that change.
All it will do is make it less attractive for individuals to cut out the middle man on small items.

It's a shame for the individual but I can understand why and it does seem fair enough.

whiterebel

ArrBee wrote: »

No it won't.
Wholesalers and resellers won't be impacted by that change.
All it will do is make it less attractive for individuals to cut out the middle man on small items.

It's a shame for the individual but I can understand why and it does seem fair enough.

It will bring more VAT into the country, which is no bad thing. VAT and duty will push the prices up, though.

RoYoBo

Will this not apply to goods from the UK now too, come January 2021?

YellowBucket

RoYoBo wrote: »

Will this not apply to goods from the UK now too, come January 2021?

Probably, if there’s no VAT agreement, which is likely at this stage given they are openly hostile to any such arrangements and are talking about redesigning VAT entirely.

I would suspect buying online from the U.K. could become problematic and we will have to refocus on the EU internal market, buying from the continent.

Cabaal

RoYoBo wrote: »

Will this not apply to goods from the UK now too, come January 2021?

Depending oh what company you are dealing with in the UK you've already being pay the Irish VAT rate.

For example if you order from Amazon and they sell the item directly to you then you pay the Irish VAT rate if Ireland is the delivery address

Darc19

And the anomaly of low postage rates from China will be gone too with economical fees being applied by most postal services around the world to Chinese packages.

Currently China sets the fees for international postage from China and anpost and other postal services have to accept it.

hhmmm?

Will it still take on post 3 to 4 weeks to deliver to my house once the item arrives in Ireland?

um7y1h83ge06nx

It's a balls, I buy lots of little things from the likes of AliExpress - USB and HDMI cables etc.

Better put in a few orders before the end of the year.

Akrasia

hhmmm? wrote: »

Will it still take on post 3 to 4 weeks to deliver to my house once the item arrives in Ireland?

Probably, maybe even longer if every single package from outside the EU needs to be assessed for VAT rather than the current spot checks on goods declared as ineligible

Akrasia

Crystal Spicy Sagebrush wrote: »

It's a balls, I buy lots of little things from the likes of AliExpress - USB and HDMI cables etc.

Better put in a few orders before the end of the year.

It’ll probably force the Chinese to open EU warehouse facilities to remain competitive. (Some Chinese guys spare bedroom) Could actually reduce delivery times. They’ll no doubt find ways of under declaring the value of their EU imports to their warehouse and avoiding the VAT that way

um7y1h83ge06nx

Good point, they'll definitely be looking at some way around it and that could be the main way.

drunkmonkey

This doesn't just say China, will it also apply to the UK, Amazon will want a warehouse here if it does.

JohnC.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This doesn't just say China, will it also apply to the UK, Amazon will want a warehouse here if it does.

Amazon are already starting down that road. They've fairly recently leased somewhere in Greenogue Business Park. May not be the last.

ohnonotgmail

Darc19 wrote: »

And the anomaly of low postage rates from China will be gone too with economical fees being applied by most postal services around the world to Chinese packages.

Currently China sets the fees for international postage from China and anpost and other postal services have to accept it.

The UPU set rates not china.

Asus X540L

Akrasia wrote: »

Probably, maybe even longer if every single package from outside the EU needs to be assessed for VAT rather than the current spot checks on goods declared as ineligible

Can't see how that will be even possible.

It's like they've suddenly decided to inspect every single shipping container.

This may be just a pie in the sky

paddy19

Asus X540L wrote: »

Can't see how that will be even possible.

It's like they've suddenly decided to inspect every single shipping container.

This may be just a pie in the sky

No it's EU law and will be implemented.

Very likely long delays.

An Post charge €10, couriers €15 to €20.

It's a nice little a earner.

In the longer term it makes cheapie shipments (<€22 or <€6 vat) not viable.

POBox19

Interestingly, on the Revenue site they state

From 1 July 2021 import VAT will:

be payable on all goods entering the EU, irrespective of their value
and always be collected, irrespective of the amount due.

So is it January or July 2021??

I can't attach the link, newbie rules.

Asus X540L

It's logistically impossible to open every small package coming from abroad.

Even it it were, are the people opening the packages going to be electrical valuers?

Not sure this whole thing makes any sense

L1011

They won't be opening every package; they'll be opening the ones with suspiciously low values written on the CN22 primarily. Just charge the fee for the declared value on the front otherwise.

Also, once people realise they're paying a processing fee regardless of value they are very likely to stop ordering quite so much stuff from outside the EEA.

Asus X540L

L1011 wrote: »

Also, once people realise they're paying a processing fee regardless of value they are very likely to stop ordering quite so much stuff from outside the EEA.

A processing fee?

So if your penpal in China decides to send you 2 HDMI cables and a USB-C as a gift, will I have to pay a processing fee on that?

The Chinese will find a way around this, don't worry

L1011

Asus X540L wrote: »

A processing fee?

So if your penpal in China decides to send you 2 HDMI cables and a USB-C as a gift, will I have to pay a processing fee on that?

The Chinese will find a way around this, don't worry

Revenue are more than aware of all of these tricks already.

If there is a substantial number of items coming in as "gift", they'll go through the lot of them.

So you'll be stung for the fee after the many many MONTHS it'll take to get to your package.

The 'way around this' is to have a warehouse in Europe, with the inherently higher prices that will lead to. The gravy train is over. Doubly over as China Post is going to have to pay a lot more for postage in the next few years too.

maestroamado

I expect we see one of these Chinese bazaar shops in every large town.

lmimmfn

ArrBee wrote: »

No it won't.
Wholesalers and resellers won't be impacted by that change.
All it will do is make it less attractive for individuals to cut out the middle man on small items.

It's a shame for the individual but I can understand why and it does seem fair enough.

EU, always taking care of ensuring big business in the EU thrives at a cost to your average consumer.

While i dont agree wirh all the plastic crap coming from china, this is another case of the EU f***ing over the average joe to line big business pockets.

Suckit

Pkiernan wrote: »

Good.

Maybe it'll stem the flow of cheap Chinese garbage flooding the country.

It will likely have the opposite effect if any.


The smaller items are usually bought by impulse buyers, online.

They would likely be brought in, in bulk now and sold. It just recreates a middleman.

L1011

Second hand items are not VAT-free, if bought from someone over the VAT limit - which most eBay traders are. If you were selling the opposite direction the IRS would certainly have their cut

Basically the exemption had its point in the past due to the effort of enforcement but that is now vastly cheaper; and the volume being missed out on is huge.

Suckit

Probably easy enough to circumvent anyway.

paddy19

POBox19 wrote: »

Interestingly, on the Revenue site they state

From 1 July 2021 import VAT will:

be payable on all goods entering the EU, irrespective of their value
and always be collected, irrespective of the amount due.

So is it January or July 2021??

I can't attach the link, newbie rules.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/buying-of-goods-online-for-personal-use/buying-goods-from-outside-the-eu.aspx

EU commission has purposed to delay implementation from January to July.

sunny2004

Ok. I'm confused. So forgive the stupid question.

If I buy a phone cover for 2 euros I get hit with the processing fee? But not import duty ?

Yes I read the whole thread but I'm confused with the reference to under 6 euros and how that applies ?

Can someone explain with an example. Thanks.

ohnonotgmail

sunny2004 wrote: »

Ok. I'm confused. So forgive the stupid question.

If I buy a phone cover for 2 euros I get hit with the processing fee? But not import duty ?

Yes I read the whole thread but I'm confused with the reference to under 6 euros and how that applies ?

Can someone explain with an example. Thanks.

the thread is about a proposed change that will not be implemented until next july. at present if the vat due is less than €6 then An Post will not collect it.

CertifiedSimp

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the thread is about a proposed change that will not be implemented until next july. at present if the vat due is less than €6 then An Post will not collect it.

But they will collect it from next July on all items?

ohnonotgmail

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

But they will collect it from next July on all items?

apparently. I cant see it myself. they dont even collect the vat due on parcels that exceed the €6 vat limit now.

CertifiedSimp

Pkiernan wrote: »

Good.

Maybe it'll stem the flow of cheap Chinese garbage flooding the country.

Cool, I guess we'll just have to pay EU companies more money for expensive Chinese garbage.

Suckit

sunny2004 wrote: »

Ok. I'm confused. So forgive the stupid question.

If I buy a phone cover for 2 euros I get hit with the processing fee? But not import duty ?

Yes I read the whole thread but I'm confused with the reference to under 6 euros and how that applies ?

Can someone explain with an example. Thanks.

The negligible €6 will also be abolished, so you will get hit for both.
It is ridiculous imho. The Government must be making more money than ever before on imports over €26, as so many are buying online.
This is not a solution, and I can see them losing out more as a result. Somebody saw the money they weren't making and decided that they should be taking from that too.

I would love to see the figures on the amount that they believe that they are 'losing out on' by not taxing items under €21.
Forget the €10 processing fee.

sunny2004

Suckit wrote: »

The negligible €6 will also be abolished, so you will get hit for both.
It is ridiculous imho. The Government must be making more money than ever before on imports over €26, as so many are buying online.
This is not a solution, and I can see them losing out more as a result. Somebody saw the money they weren't making and decided that they should be taking from that too.

I would love to see the figures on the amount that they believe that they are 'losing out on' by not taxing items under €21.
Forget the €10 processing fee.

So screen protects for 2 euros etc will all be a waste of time !

I have noticed over the last few months ALIEXPRESS sellers claiming shipping fro Spain and Italy Poland etc.
I actually put this down to covid as I was looking up masks. But I'm now wondering if the alternative European shipping address is their way of getting ready for this change.

L1011

Suckit wrote: »

The negligible €6 will also be abolished, so you will get hit for both.
It is ridiculous imho. The Government must be making more money than ever before on imports over €26, as so many are buying online.
This is not a solution, and I can see them losing out more as a result. Somebody saw the money they weren't making and decided that they should be taking from that too.

I would love to see the figures on the amount that they believe that they are 'losing out on' by not taxing items under €21.
Forget the €10 processing fee.

Its an EU-wide measure, it is not down to the domestic Government.

ohnonotgmail

L1011 wrote: »

Its an EU-wide measure, it is not down to the domestic Government.

it is down to domestic governments to implement it .

Dravokivich

You need to shop smart with Aliexpress. There are vendors that can import internally into EU based distributors and your sale is registered from there.

paddy19

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

apparently. I cant see it myself. they dont even collect the vat due on parcels that exceed the €6 vat limit now.

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/eu-2021-ending--22-import-exemption--import-oss-returns.html

New System:
Sellers will charge VAT at the rate of their customer’s EU country of residence at the point-of-sale on the website. Sellers can use the delivery address of the customer to determine the country VAT rate. No VAT is due at the point of import in this case.


Get used to a new abbreviation welcome to the IOSS number....

IOSS import VAT simplified reporting

To report the VAT charged at the point of sale, a new declaration, ‘Import One-Stop-Shop’ (IOSS), is being introduced. This will report distance selling across EU borders of imported consignments not exceeding €150. Sellers, or deemed supplier marketplaces, will have to register for IOSS in just one EU state. They will be issued a unique IOSS identification number which should be listed on all packages sent to the EU. This will indicate to customs that VAT is being properly declared and help ensure speedy customs clearance.

Like the OSS, IOSS will be a quarterly filing submitted to a tax authority in one nominated EU member state. It will declare import VAT due in all EU countries. The format and due dates will be the same as the VAT OSS. Sellers will have to make a single cash payment of the VAT due to the country where they are IOSS registered.

Switching import VAT to point-of-sale – Green Channel clearance

The EU has therefore agreed to scrap the import VAT exempt threshold. Instead, it will require EU and non-EU sellers to charge VAT at the point of sale for consignments of €150 or below. This will create a more efficient ‘Green Channel’, with quick and easy customs clearance. Note – the delivery agent may still act as the import VAT collector (see below).

screamer

Anything that reduces the ocean of tat that is imported from China is a step forward. I hope they ban all the pound shops now or whatever the hell they’re called these days. Landfill generators is all they are.

CertifiedSimp

screamer wrote: »

Anything that reduces the ocean of tat that is imported from China is a step forward. I hope they ban all the pound shops now or whatever the hell they’re called these days. Landfill generators is all they are.

I don't buy Chinese stuff because it's cheap. I buy it because I want it.

Only now I'll just be paying more for it. It will still be Chinese.

Suckit

Aliexpress etc.. Has risen in price in the last couple of years anyway, Most items on aliexpress can be found on the amazons for the same price or cheaper.
Taobao and similar sites are the closest to get to Chinese prices, but vat is usually paid on them before they arrive anyway.
To abolish the vat minimum will likely do Ireland no favours (it is EU wide, but not all national post services also charge processing fees), as it will be cheaper to import to an EU country with lower rates using a virtual address with consolidation or something similar for the people that buy loads of smaller items. It will be interesting to see if there will be an increase of the people using virtual addresses in Luxemburg or Germany for example. Even when the reduced rate hits here, depending on what is being purchased it may still be cheaper to import abroad and send here.

Asus X540L

screamer wrote: »

Anything that reduces the ocean of tat that is imported from China is a step forward. I hope they ban all the pound shops now or whatever the hell they’re called these days. Landfill generators is all they are.

Well who's a moaning Michael today?

c.p.w.g.w

lmimmfn wrote: »

EU, always taking care of ensuring big business in the EU thrives at a cost to your average consumer.

While i dont agree wirh all the plastic crap coming from china, this is another case of the EU f***ing over the average joe to line big business pockets.

There is massive issues with work camps filled with Uyghur Muslims, they are likely making so e of cheap stuff, but also stuff for VW & Sports Apparel Company(can't remember which one)

Suckit

We should do what the Swedes do (amongst others) and use the trash to our benefit.

CollyFlower

Dravokivich wrote: »

You need to shop smart with Aliexpress. There are vendors that can import internally into EU based distributors and your sale is registered from there.

I ordered an item, shipped from The Netherlands, got it Wednesday and was charged 22.77 duty, when I queried it with revenue they said, because it originally came from China and no duty was paid when arrived in The Netherlands and I must pay it.. ****s!