Seattle defund police

2u2me

The first Black woman to hold the position of Chief of Police of the Seattle Police Department has been forced out of her job by the Seattle City Council.

"Today’s news of the retirement of Chief Carmen Best is a loss," wrote a spokesperson for the organization Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County. "It does nothing to further our fight for authentic police accountability and the safety of Black lives, that the first Black woman to hold the position of Chief of Police of the Seattle Police Department has been forced out of her job by the Seattle City Council. Racism is racism. We demand the Seattle City Council stop prioritizing performative action that solely suggests the appearance of change. We demand transparency and accountability for the series of actions and inactions that led to Chief Best’s resignation. And we demand a successor that serves Black Lives."

Link

So the city council who defunded the police which lead Chief Best to resign were doing so with good intentions(they thought they were helping BLM?) yet this has been called racism by black lives matter.


I would have posted this in the George Floyd thread, but it's been shutdown because it ran it's course. I would have posted it in the Antifa thread but that has also been shutdown. It doesn't seem appropriate for the "BLM, or WLM" thread as that thread is framed as a debate of BLM vs WLM.

c.p.w.g.w

What they should be campaigning for is...More money & services for the wider community, especially mental & physical health services

Shakey_jake

Its the officers i actually feel sorry for!

StackSteevens

2u2me wrote: »

The first Black woman to hold the position of Chief of Police of the Seattle Police Department has been forced out of her job by the Seattle City Council.



So the city council who defunded the police which lead Chief Best to resign were doing so with good intentions(they thought they were helping BLM?) yet this has been called racism by black lives matter.


I would have posted this in the George Floyd thread, but it's been shutdown because it ran it's course. I would have posted it in the Antifa thread but that has also been shutdown. It doesn't seem appropriate for the "BLM, or WLM" thread as that thread is framed as a debate of BLM vs WLM.

Any chance that you could provide a link to the above story so I can read some professional reportage on the matter as well as your wholly objective analysis of what happened?

Beasty

George Floyd posts deleted. Stick to the topic or the thread will be closed

Carfacemandog

It will be interesting to see if Seattle's crime rates plunge as much as Newark and Camden did, experiencing a 41% and 51% drop in crime, respectively.

It will also be interesting to see what develops from this as many appear to think that the real issue is the police union chief, who is apparently very fond of glorifying police violence and militarization which has plagued Seattle from the outset of these protests and played a notable role in their popularity in the US.

Here's his campaign ad (police vote fro their union chiefs), it gets pretty interesting at the 1 minute mark (bizarrely using footage from Kremlin propaganda outlet Ruptly of all places).

Silentcorner

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if Seattle's crime rates plunge as much as Newark and Camden did, experiencing a 41% and 51% drop in crime, respectively.

It will also be interesting to see what develops from this as many appear to think that the real issue is the police union chief, who is apparently very fond of glorifying police violence and militarization which has plagued Seattle from the outset of these protests and played a notable role in their popularity in the US.

Here's his campaign ad (police vote fro their union chiefs), it gets pretty interesting at the 1 minute mark (bizarrely using footage from Kremlin propaganda outlet Ruptly of all places).

They didn't defund the police in Camden, they moved all the contracts from the city to the county, let go a load of deadwood and hired more cheaper (also white) police officers....

Shakey_jake

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Its the officers i actually feel sorry for!

Why?

They sit idly by and watch their colleagues acting the bollocks, if they're not acting the bollocks themselves.

biko

If defunding Seattle police will be anything like CHAZ it will be a major ****storm, on a grander scale.

RandomName2

Beasty

Silentcorner wrote: »

Electing Feminist Lesbians into powerful positions is really working out well for the citizens of Seattle and Chicago!!!!

Threadbanned

2u2me

StackSteevens wrote: »

Any chance that you could provide a link to the above story so I can read some professional reportage on the matter as well as your wholly objective analysis of what happened?

That would indeed be useful!

https://mynorthwest.com/2083086/city-council-expected-approve-cuts-spd/

https://komonews.com/news/local/chief-best-announces-retirement-from-police-department-after-city-council-approves-cuts

biko

biko wrote: »

If defunding Seattle police will be anything like CHAZ it will be a major ****storm, on a grander scale.

Instead of the police being called when a person is having a mental health episode and ending up six feet under, a mental health expert will be called to deal with the situation.

It will help avoid situations like CHAZ.

StackSteevens

Silentcorner wrote: »

Electing Feminist Lesbians into powerful positions is really working out well for the citizens of Seattle and Chicago!!!!

Naughty boy! Surely you're aware that thoughtcrime is a capital offence in these parts.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

Why?

They sit idly by and watch their colleagues acting the bollocks, if they're not acting the bollocks themselves.

What percentage of the police force consists of these types of people?

mynamejeff

Deleted User wrote: »

Instead of the police being called when a person is having a mental health episode and ending up six feet under, a mental health expert will be called to deal with the situation.

It will help avoid situations like CHAZ.

who will then be murdered by the person with the mental health issue


good plan

Foxtrol

2u2me wrote: »

That would indeed be useful!

https://mynorthwest.com/2083086/city-council-expected-approve-cuts-spd/

https://komonews.com/news/local/chief-best-announces-retirement-from-police-department-after-city-council-approves-cuts

I'm sure her resignation had nothing to do with the fact they cut her $285,000 a year salary. I wonder had her pension entitlements already kicked in at that higher rate?

The overall cuts are less than 1% of the police budget...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#646e8ae67a56

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

Instead of the police being called when a person is having a mental health episode and ending up six feet under, a mental health expert will be called to deal with the situation

When police are called and end up dealing with someone who is mentally unstable it is because the person is a serious danger to others or themselves. People don't call the cops when Auntie Nelly is having one of her breakdowns.

Bonniedog

What a bunch of assholes. If they knew anything about history they would realise, that:

(a) all societies require policing in order to protect its citizens from bad fkers, and;

(b) that every far left experiment in liberating people from The Man led to oppression many times worse than what was being replaced.


It is amusing of course that the Democrats are falling out with one another over this.

2u2me

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm sure her resignation had nothing to do with the fact they cut her $285,000 a year salary. I wonder had her pension entitlements already kicked in at that higher rate?

The overall cuts are less than 1% of the police budget...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#646e8ae67a56

From this link from Forbes,

The Downtown Seattle Association hit back at the cuts to the police department, saying in a letter signed by local businesses and neighborhoods: “In defunding SPD, the council moved with speed and pettiness rather than with precision and thoughtfulness,” Reuters reports.

From the link I previously posted by black lives matter

"It does nothing to further our fight for authentic police accountability and the safety of Black lives, that the first Black woman to hold the position of Chief of Police of the Seattle Police Department has been forced out of her job by the Seattle City Council.

What makes you more of an expert than these two groups?(Black lives matter & the downtown seattle association) or are you just muddying the waters?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Police are bad = defund the police.

Yeah ok. Way to get in new recruits so.

Foxtrol

suicide_circus wrote: »

When police are called and end up dealing with someone who is mentally unstable it is because the person is a serious danger to others or themselves. People don't call the cops when Auntie Nelly is having one of her breakdowns.

Many times they aren't mentally unstable or a danger to others.

Another issue is having cops dealing with students in schools. This is the kind of disgraceful behaviour you see from them.

https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1292822519234215938?s=20

Man with broke phone

This is going to be the biggest ****show the world has seen and will all be blamed on Trump.

The new thinkers will refuse to admit being wrong. They will arm the mental health nurses and give them sirens for their cars rather than admit it.

The fact it will all end up privatised is even more rediculous. Mental health nurses with sirens and guns having a deadline and cranky boss. Nobody will care the republicans will blame the new thinking liberals and the liberals will say it happened under trumps watch. They will both sit happily back on the internet feeling like they were right.

Anybody with an IQ above 70 will sit back in total disbelief at it all but the rest of the people will be too busy watching Trump v Biden to even care.

satguy

All the Police Departments over there were starting to resemble stormtrooper squadrons ,, and less and less like the bobby on the street.

If you give cops armour and assault weapons, you turn cops into stormtroopers ..

Not Good ..

Jimbob1977

If there is repeated looting and rioting in Seattle until November, it is 'manna from heaven' for Donald Trump.

Of course Washington State and Illinois will always vote Democrat, but it could polarise opinions in places like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Florida. Swing states.

Foxtrol

2u2me wrote: »

From this link from Forbes,

From the link I previously posted by black lives matter

What makes you more of an expert than these two groups?(Black lives matter & the downtown seattle association) or are you just muddying the waters?

It is pretty obvious that the city has done what many other has and tried to find a middle ground that annoyed everybody.

Pretending a 1% cut in budget is some kind of armageddon is utter nonsense

stinkypinky

RandomName2 wrote: »

[IMG]xxhttps://nwlocalpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/nwlocalpaper-defund-the-police-5-x-7-text.jpg[/IMG]

Lovely cartoon lads, let's all hold hands and crime will slowly dissipate.

Foxtrol

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

If there is repeated looting and rioting in Seattle until November, it is 'manna from heaven' for Donald Trump.

Of course Washington State and Illinois will always vote Democrat, but it could polarise opinions in places like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Florida. Swing states.

I'd have concerns for the intelligence of someone that says 'Trump has shown no ability to stop riots/shootings over the last 4 years but I better vote for him'.

If he was the incumbent it would make sense but not when he has been sitting in the oval office the whole time

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

Why did the Police chief resign citing deflated morale? I don't know you're pulling your 1% from either.

Being finally held accountable for your actions tends to lower morale. For example, cops from surrounding areas of NYC are refusing to enter the city due to not being allowed choke people anymore.

The source of 1% is the Forbes article I linked earlier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#555297f87a56

stinkypinky

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty obvious that the city has done what many other has and tried to find a middle ground that annoyed everybody.

Pretending a 1% cut in budget is some kind of armageddon is utter nonsense

From what I see they plan to fire 100 of 1400 officers and decrease wages across the board, with a plan to defund more by 2021.

Truth of the matter is a radical left fringe have bullied the council and being the cowards they are they've bent over and complied. The overwhelming majority of people in the states does not want to see police departments defunded, even for things like suggested in the picture posted.

One outcome and one outcome only - more crime.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/64-americans-oppose-defund-police-movement-key-goals/story?id=71202300

64% of Americans oppose 'defund the police' movement, key goals: POLL

"Strong majorities of Americans oppose the movement to "defund the police" and some of its most significant goals, specifically reshuffling funding away from law enforcement to support mental health, housing and education programs, a new ABC News/Ipsos poll released Friday finds.

Nearly two-thirds of Americans oppose calls for defunding police departments, compared to 34% who back the movement, and 60% specifically oppose reducing the budget for police to reallocate it to other public health and social programs, while 39% support that move."

Carfacemandog

Silentcorner wrote: »

They didn't defund the police in Camden, they moved all the contracts from the city to the county, let go a load of deadwood and hired more cheaper (also white) police officers....

:pac:

Thanks for reminding me, Camden didn't just defund their department, they literally abolished it, and crime has plummeted in the years since. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/12/camden-policing-reforms-313750

Thanks for helping show that lower budgets do not mean more crime.

Bonniedog

Foxtrol wrote: »

Being finally held accountable for your actions tends to lower morale. For example, cops from surrounding areas of NYC are refusing to enter the city due to not being allowed choke people anymore.

The source of 1% is the Forbes article I linked earlier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#555297f87a56

So you think that mainly black people being murdered in increasing numbers is a good thing I assume?

That is the consequence of undermining the NYPD.

mynamejeff

Foxtrol wrote: »

Being finally held accountable for your actions tends to lower morale. For example, cops from surrounding areas of NYC are refusing to enter the city due to not being allowed choke people anymore.

The source of 1% is the Forbes article I linked earlier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#555297f87a56

if you cant say some thing intelligent you should say nothing at all

if protesters cant protest without looting then they cant be allowed to protest .

:rolleyes:

2u2me

satguy wrote: »

All the Police Departments over there were starting to resemble stormtrooper squadrons ,, and less and less like the bobby on the street.

If you give cops armour and assault weapons, you turn cops into stormtroopers ..

Not Good ..

It's hard to disagree with that. Who wants that sort of thing?

The thing is though this argument is revolving around funding, the argument goes "By defunding the police you can put these funds to better use elsewhere".

By removing the militarization of the police through programs like 1033 and 1122 they aren't actually saving any funds as they are handmedowns from the military.
The bulk of that equipment?

"The most commonly obtained item from the 1033 program is ammunition. Some of the most commonly requested items include ammunition, cold weather clothing, sand bags, medical supplies, sleeping bags, flashlights and electrical wiring."

If you count where the money is spent on by the military most of it is spent on MRAPS (Mine-resistant, ambush protected vehicles), the same type of vehicle seen saving protestors(Acting as an ambulance) when things turned violent in many protests.

Foxtrol

Bonniedog wrote: »

So you think that mainly black people being murdered in increasing numbers is a good thing I assume?

That is the consequence of undermining the NYPD.

Do you think police choking people stopped black murders? :rolleyes:

Also, despite increased murder, overall crime is down so far in NYC in 2020. Is that also 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'?

mynamejeff

2u2me wrote: »

It's hard to disagree with that. Who wants that sort of thing?

The thing is though this argument is revolving around funding, the argument goes "By defunding the police you can put these funds to better use elsewhere".

By removing the militarization of the police through programs like 1033 and 1122 they aren't actually saving any funds as they are handmedowns from the military.
The bulk of that equipment?


If you count where the money is spent on by the military most of it is spent on MRAPS (Mine-resistant, ambush protected vehicles), the same type of vehicle seen saving protestors(Acting as an ambulance) when things turned violent in many protests.

I wonder if they are using all that ammo for the much needed training that everyone agrees they need ? or are they just going into ghettos and mowing down rank after rank of promising sports men and aspiring rappers ?

Foxtrol

mynamejeff wrote: »

if you cant say some thing intelligent you should say nothing at all

if protesters cant protest without looting then they cant be allowed to protest .

:rolleyes:

What are you talking about? Protesters should be arrested for breaking the law, just like cops should.

In case you didn't know, here is the release from Westchester police not allowing their cops into NYC if they aren't allowed to choke people. Yonkers released similar.

https://twitter.com/coryprovost/status/1284108366499975170?s=20

stinkypinky

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you think police choking people stopped black murders? :rolleyes:

Also, despite increased murder, overall crime is down so far in NYC in 2020. Is that also 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'?

Dunno where you're pulling your figures from but shooting victims are up 81% from Jan-Aug 2019 and shooting incidents are up 76% from the same period in NYC. But sure if there's less parking tickets what does it matter?

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

From what I see they plan to fire 100 of 1400 officers and decrease wages across the board, with a plan to defund more by 2021.

Truth of the matter is a radical left fringe have bullied the council and being the cowards they are they've bent over and complied. The overwhelming majority of people in the states does not want to see police departments defunded, even for things like suggested in the picture posted.

One outcome and one outcome only - more crime.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/64-americans-oppose-defund-police-movement-key-goals/story?id=71202300

64% of Americans oppose 'defund the police' movement, key goals: POLL

"Strong majorities of Americans oppose the movement to "defund the police" and some of its most significant goals, specifically reshuffling funding away from law enforcement to support mental health, housing and education programs, a new ABC News/Ipsos poll released Friday finds.

Nearly two-thirds of Americans oppose calls for defunding police departments, compared to 34% who back the movement, and 60% specifically oppose reducing the budget for police to reallocate it to other public health and social programs, while 39% support that move."

What was signed off and what many here are claiming will be akin to the end of civilisation is a less than 1% cut to a $400 million budget. People need to get a grip of themselves

2u2me

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty obvious that the city has done what many other has and tried to find a middle ground that annoyed everybody.

Pretending a 1% cut in budget is some kind of armageddon is utter nonsense

It's the mayor and chief of police who were objecting the most.

Durkan[Mayor] and Best had urged the council to slow down its discussions about police budgets, saying the issue could be taken up in earnest when the 2021 city budget is considered. They also said any layoffs would disproportionately target newer officers, often hired from Black and brown communities, and would inevitably lead to lawsuits.

Surely it is an argmaggedon if it disproportionately affects black and brown communities?


Where did Forbes get that 1% from?

However, the council recently admitted it would not be able to hit that 50% mark – about $85 million — for 2020, and instead would pass what it could for the 2020 package and focus on getting to that 50% in the 2021 budget, which the council starts work on next month. The council estimates that if enacted annually, the cuts it approved Monday would total 41%.

The highlights of the 2020 package approved by councilmembers Monday include:

• Eliminating up to 100 sworn officer positions across various teams via layoffs and attrition (including 32 patrol officers), beginning in November 2020
• Capping command staff pay at $150,000 (not including Chief Best’s salary, which was reduced to $275,000).
• Ending the Navigation Team (14 of the 100 officers mentioned above)

https://mynorthwest.com/2083086/city-council-expected-approve-cuts-spd/

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

Dunno where you're pulling your figures from but shooting victims are up 81% from Jan-Aug 2019 and shooting incidents are up 76% from the same period. But sure if there's less parking tickets what does it matter?

NYPD's own data based on the 7 major crimes (updated weekly).

Most don't see this because the police unions and media make a living off making uninformed people scared.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

stinkypinky

2u2me wrote: »

Where did Forbes get that 1% from?

Absolutely laughable, then he has the gall to claim the police chief resigned over wages.

stinkypinky

Foxtrol wrote: »

NYPD's own data based on the 7 major crimes (updated weekly).

Most don't see this because the police unions and media make a living off making uninformed people scared.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

What's your point? Shootings and shooting victims have almost doubled compared to the same period, Jan-Aug of last year.

suicide_circus

If i was a cop in the states i'd be giving society the finger and letting chaos reign.

Kindergarten Cop is now "problematic" because it depicts the police in a positive light.

mynamejeff

Foxtrol wrote: »

What are you talking about? Protesters should be arrested for breaking the law, just like cops should.

In case you didn't know, here is the release from Westchester police not allowing their cops into NYC if they aren't allowed to choke people. Yonkers released similar.

https://twitter.com/coryprovost/status/1284108366499975170?s=20

id suggest that a lot of Westchester police officer are former NYPD officers, and hired because of that fact

I guess thanks to this kind of thing more violent criminals will escape justice just by crossing a county line ,

as for the stats I guess less cops to record crimes means less crimes recorded let alone solved .

again the only winners are criminals

Foxtrol

2u2me wrote: »

It's the mayor and chief of police who were objecting the most.

Surely it is an argmaggedon if it disproportionately affects black and brown communities?

Where did Forbes get that 1% from?

https://mynorthwest.com/2083086/city-council-expected-approve-cuts-spd/

Where does your article point to the total value of the actual cuts approved for 2020?

Here is CNN saying the cuts totaled $4m and Forbes said $3.5m

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/us/seattle-police-chief-budget-cut-4-million/index.html

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

What's your point? Shootings and shooting victims have almost doubled compared to the same period, Jan-Aug of last year.

If you're going to claim increased shootings is 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD' then it only makes sense to say the fall in the other crimes the NYPD deem as being 'the most serious' must also be 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'.

What makes much more sense is that shootings increasing and other crimes falling has little to nothing to do to with any perceived undermining the NYPD and that claiming so is complete nonsense.

Foxtrol

suicide_circus wrote: »

If i was a cop in the states i'd be giving society the finger and letting chaos reign.

Kindergarten Cop is now "problematic" because it depicts the police in a positive light.

I don't remember this scene in kindergarden cop. Cops only have themselves to blame for any new negative light

https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1292822519234215938?s=20

Foxtrol

mynamejeff wrote: »

id suggest that a lot of Westchester police officer are former NYPD officers, and hired because of that fact

I guess thanks to this kind of thing more violent criminals will escape justice just by crossing a county line ,

as for the stats I guess less cops to record crimes means less crimes recorded let alone solved .

again the only winners are criminals

Or maybe cops just accept they shouldn't be choking people :rolleyes:

stinkypinky

The mayor of Seattle has already publicly proposed a plan defunding the department by 76 million by 2021, this is just the first step. Even with the so called "1%" - 100 police officers have lost their jobs out of a total of 1400, not insignificant at all.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/mayor-durkan-announces-initial-76-million-reductions-2021-seattle-police-department-budget/3UJ2QEP5JNFTPA3XZRB6ZVSDDE/

SEATTLE — Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan on Monday announced an initial $76 million in reductions to the 2021 Seattle Police Department budget.

Durkan said the reductions are part of a series of early actions designed to transform the department.

Durkan said $56 million will be transferred out of the department’s 2021 budget by moving the following functions to civilian oversight:

The 911 call center to be removed from the Seattle Police Department.
The parking enforcement division to be removed from the Seattle Police Department and into the Seattle Department of Transportation.
The Office of Emergency Management and office of police accountability to be removed from the Seattle Police Department.
Durkan said an additional $20 million in cuts to the SPD budget have been identified by not expanding the force in 2021 and by making reductions to overtime

pjohnson

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't remember this scene in kindergarden cop. Cops only have themselves to blame for any new negative light

https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1292822519234215938?s=20

At least they managed to not injure, kill or shoot him while doing the "arrest". They surely earned a promotion afterwards I assume? Thats amazing level of skill compared to how they normally do it.