What Happened to The Vacant Properties Counted in the Census?

PropQueries

There was an article in 2018 in The Guardian about 30,000 empty properties in Dublin. Does anyone know what happened these properties? Did the state lease them or did they re-enter the market in some other way? The article is here: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/nov/29/empty-dublin-housing-crisis-airbnb-homelessness-landlords

Marius34

PropQueries wrote: »

There was an article in 2018 in The Guardian about 30,000 empty properties in Dublin. Does anyone know what happened these properties? Did the state lease them or did they re-enter the market in some other way? The article is here: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/nov/29/empty-dublin-housing-crisis-airbnb-homelessness-landlords

Those numbers are probably from 2016 census, which doesn't really tell if the house is actually permanently empty, but mainly that no habitant filled census on that particular address. It's rather used for the stats to identify trends in demography and etc. for further city infrastructure and social projects.

Unfortunately those numbers are later misused as propaganda tool. Even worst people love to read this kind of propaganda.

JimmyVik

Marius34 wrote: »

Those numbers are probably from 2016 census, which doesn't really tell if the house is actually permanently empty, but mainly that no habitant filled census on that particular address. It's rather used for the stats to identify trends in demography and etc. for further city infrastructure and social projects.

Unfortunately those numbers are later misused as propaganda tool. Even worst people love to read this kind of propaganda.

I found out recently that ive been living in an unoccupied house. Parents house is unoccupied too. According to the census.

PropQueries

Marius34 wrote: »

Those numbers are probably from 2016 census, which doesn't really tell if the house is actually permanently empty, but mainly that no habitant filled census on that particular address. It's rather used for the stats to identify trends in demography and etc. for further city infrastructure and social projects.

Unfortunately those numbers are later misused as propaganda tool. Even worst people love to read this kind of propaganda.

My understanding is that the census enumerators, call back several times to an empty property and also ask neighbours etc. to make sure a property is actually empty before it's recorded as such, so I think the Census figures may be fairly accurate in general.

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

My understanding is that the census enumerators, call back several times to an empty property and also ask neighbours etc. to make sure a property is actually empty before it's recorded as such, so I think the Census figures may be fairly accurate in general.

That is not true at all its like the gardai blowing into the breathalyzers bump the numbers, remember your dealing with people and in human nature will you go out to the same place 3/4/5 times or just do it once and then instead of going out a 2nd/3rd/4th time go for a pint or a walk or something to eat or meet billy for a sambo and just say "asked the neighbors and no one lives there" sure no one is going to be going back over your work and if they do then if it changes who is to know if someone moved in , bought or whatever there is way to many ways to feck with the numbers with the consensus.

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

That is not true at all its like the gardai blowing into the breathalyzers bump the numbers, remember your dealing with people and in human nature will you go out to the same place 3/4/5 times or just do it once and then instead of going out a 2nd/3rd/4th time go for a pint or a walk or something to eat or meet billy for a sambo and just say "asked the neighbors and no one lives there" sure no one is going to be going back over your work and if they do then if it changes who is to know if someone moved in , bought or whatever there is way to many ways to feck with the numbers with the consensus.

Not at all. Also, a lot of the AirBnB properties in Dublin at that time were recorded as holiday homes (they actually asked us and another neighbour about the house next to us a few times which was an AirBnB) and since they are now banned, the true number of vacant properties was probably higher. The census enumerators really do go to out of their way to ensure the data is correct. They really have nothing to gain by manipulating the data.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

The census enumerators really do go to out of their way to ensure the data is correct. They really have nothing to gain by manipulating the data.

they dont have anything to gain by killing themselves verifying if a house is vacant or not either

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all. Also, a lot of the AirBnB properties in Dublin at that time were recorded as holiday homes (they actually asked us and another neighbour about the house next to us a few times which was an AirBnB) and since they are now banned, the true number of vacant properties was probably higher. The census enumerators really do go to out of their way to ensure the data is correct. They really have nothing to gain by manipulating the data.

Ah you will get some doing the job correctly as in the example above I am sure there were a lot of garda not blowing into the breathalyzers but if you have a good % not doing the job properly it can skew the figures and if the garda the people who we should have most trust in can do it then you can bet your life so can the lads going around taking the consensus. They do gain something they gain work time for their own.

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

Ah you will get some doing the job correctly as in the example above I am sure there were a lot of garda not blowing into the breathalyzers but if you have a good % not doing the job properly it can skew the figures and if the garda the people who we should have most trust in can do it then you can bet your life so can the lads going around taking the consensus. They do gain something they gain work time for their own.

The link to how they define a vacant property is here: https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2016reports/census2016vacanthousingstatisticsfaqs/

They state: "Enumerators also looked for signs of vacancy such as post and junk mail building up, no lights on at night time, no cars in driveways, overgrown gardens and no windows open. If they observed any signs of occupancy, they could not record the home as vacant. They also checked with neighbours to enquire about the homes where they could not make contact. If neighbours told them that there were people living in these homes, the enumerator could not record them as vacant."

As I said, their very thorough. A lot of people are surprised.

PropQueries

PropQueries wrote: »

The link to how they define a vacant property is here: https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2016reports/census2016vacanthousingstatisticsfaqs/

They state: "Enumerators also looked for signs of vacancy such as post and junk mail building up, no lights on at night time, no cars in driveways, overgrown gardens and no windows open. If they observed any signs of occupancy, they could not record the home as vacant. They also checked with neighbours to enquire about the homes where they could not make contact. If neighbours told them that there were people living in these homes, the enumerator could not record them as vacant."

As I said, their very thorough. A lot of people are surprised.

Also, even if they were off by a wide margin, they still recorded a lot more vacant properties than London as can be seen here from the Guardian where they reported only 22,000 empty properties and that was even considered high for London: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/11/empty-homes-england-rises-property

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

The link to how they define a vacant property is here: https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2016reports/census2016vacanthousingstatisticsfaqs/

They state: "Enumerators also looked for signs of vacancy such as post and junk mail building up, no lights on at night time, no cars in driveways, overgrown gardens and no windows open. If they observed any signs of occupancy, they could not record the home as vacant. They also checked with neighbours to enquire about the homes where they could not make contact. If neighbours told them that there were people living in these homes, the enumerator could not record them as vacant."

As I said, their very thorough. A lot of people are surprised.

I am not doubting the report I am doubting the people gathering the info for the report.

If I told you I had 2 cocks and put it in a report would you believe it?

I have showed you an example of how human nature kicks in when given a mundane task of asking people to blow into a tube. Now your talking about having to knock on a door 3/4/5 times and then knocking into a neighbor. You can be pretty sure a good % of the info gatherers didnt go near the door and just frigged it and had more time to hit pub. How often is the consensus taken?

cubatahavana

fliball123 wrote: »

I am not doubting the report I am doubting the people gathering the info for the report.

If I told you I had 2 cocks and put it in a report would you believe it?

I have showed you an example of how human nature kicks in when given a mundane task of asking people to blow into a tube. Now your talking about having to knock on a door 3/4/5 times and then knocking into a neighbor. You can be pretty sure a good % of the info gatherers didnt know and just frigged it and had more time to hit pub. How often is the consensus taken?

what kind of cocks? feathered? asking for a friend

fliball123

cubatahavana wrote: »

what kind of cocks? feathered? asking for a friend

haha touche

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

I am not doubting the report I am doubting the people gathering the info for the report.

If I told you I had 2 cocks and put it in a report would you believe it?

I have showed you an example of how human nature kicks in when given a mundane task of asking people to blow into a tube. Now your talking about having to knock on a door 3/4/5 times and then knocking into a neighbor. You can be pretty sure a good % of the info gatherers didnt know and just frigged it and had more time to hit pub. How often is the consensus taken?

I understand your skepticism but if you live in Dublin (maybe you do), you would notice a lot of empty houses and apartments and many of houses in the new build estates near me have been sitting there empty for the past 18 months and I have no idea what they're doing with them.

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

I understand your skepticism but if you live in Dublin (maybe you do), you would notice a lot of empty houses and apartments and many of houses in the new build estates near me have been sitting there empty for the past 18 months and I have no idea what they're doing with them.

Ah no doubt there are empty houses but the manipulation will only bring numbers of empty property up as in if someone is in the house they will check house is being lived in. If there is no one there, they could call back, if no one is there again the could call back, If no one is there again or in the neighbors they could put a check beside empty and the house owners and neighbors could be on holidays. So the number in the report I would hazard a guess is a lot lower

JJJackal

PropQueries wrote: »

I understand your skepticism but if you live in Dublin (maybe you do), you would notice a lot of empty houses and apartments and many of houses in the new build estates near me have been sitting there empty for the past 18 months and I have no idea what they're doing with them.

Speculating that there will be a prise rise?
Selling in bulk to council?

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

Ah no doubt there are empty houses but the manipulation will only bring numbers of empty property up as in if someone is in the house they will check house is being lived in. If there is no one there, they could call back, if no one is there again the could call back, If no one is there again or in the neighbors they could put a check beside empty and the house owners and neighbors could be on holidays. So the number in the report I would hazard a guess is a lot lower

Good point but they do state "...overgrown gardens..." etc. "If they observed any signs of occupancy, they could not record the home as vacant.".

Even if it is lower by a significant margin, London only had 22,000 vacant homes, so even if they're over-counting the number of truly vacant properties by a factor of 10, it's still significant for a city of our size: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/11/empty-homes-england-rises-property

myshirt

Who exactly is running these illegal cock fights from vacant properties?

Marius34

PropQueries wrote: »

My understanding is that the census enumerators, call back several times to an empty property and also ask neighbours etc. to make sure a property is actually empty before it's recorded as such, so I think the Census figures may be fairly accurate in general.

I'm confident census report is not precise at all in the sense of "Empty" properties. I live in Balgrifin (Dublin 13) some areas are recorded 50% vacancy.
Couple of main reasons:
1) Parkside Phase 1: many properties was in development/completed, that had address on it already. But houses were not completed, or people have not made a permanent move yet. Those are registered as vacant.
2) New Priory: an apartment buildings that due to fire issue was in no living conditions. It got almost complete rebuilt by now, and sells as new apartments. Those are registered as vacant.

There are many other reasons. And definitely not all workers in census waste a time to find out if the property is really vacant.

myshirt

Marius34 wrote: »

I'm confident census report is not precise at all in the sense of "Empty" properties. I live in Balgrifin (Dublin 13) some areas are recorded 50% vacancy.
Couple of main reasons:
1) Parkside Phase 1: many properties was in development/completed, that had address on it already. But houses were not completed, or people have not made a permanent move yet. Those are registered as vacant.
2) New Priory: an apartment buildings that due to fire issue was in no living conditions. It got almost complete rebuilt by now, and sells as new apartments. Those are registered as vacant.

There are many other reasons. And definitely not all workers in census waste a time to find out if the property is really vacant.

I think you are trying to undermine the integrity of the census, and I'm not having it. This isn't a survey for a new bingo night for the community hall. It's our census. It costs a shedload. It's a strong and robust process. Of course the information should be read in the right context, but by no means is it a bunch of enumerators not bothering their arse to do the job right. It's done right.

I know you didn't raise it directly but to the poster challenging the other poster with his two cocks, whether there is or isn't evidence of illegal cock fights included in the report is a side bar issue.

fliball123

myshirt wrote: »

I think you are trying to undermine the integrity of the census, and I'm not having it. This isn't a survey for a new bingo night for the community hall. It's our census. It costs a shedload. It's a strong and robust process. Of course the information should be read in the right context, but by no means is it a bunch of enumerators not bothering their arse to do the job right. It's done right.

I know you didn't raise it directly but to the poster challenging the other poster with his two cocks, whether there is or isn't evidence of illegal cock fights included in the report is a side bar issue.

As has been pointed out if the garda can do it then anyone can but you go on living in that dream of yours where human nature doesn't exist.

Marius34

myshirt wrote: »

I think you are trying to undermine the integrity of the census, and I'm not having it. This isn't a survey for a new bingo night for the community hall. It's our census. It costs a shedload. It's a strong and robust process. Of course the information should be read in the right context, but by no means is it a bunch of enumerators not bothering their arse to do the job right. It's done right.

Whether there is or isn't evidence of illegal cock fights included in the report is a side bar issue.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Census report is a great thing, and it provides lots of useful details. I think the numbers make sense, what i'm not happy, about misusing those number. The vacancy from their data doesn't mean that it has no permanent resident in it, and it is in livable conditions. It simply wrong to use those number as of vacant properties in supply side.

myshirt

Marius34 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong. I think the Census report is a great thing, and it provides lots of useful details. I think the numbers make sense, what i'm not happy, about misusing those number. The vacancy from their data doesn't mean that it has no permanent resident in it, and it is in livable conditions. It simply wrong to use those number as of vacant properties in supply side.

There is too much data, and too little insights, agreed, but if you know how to use the data then it is great. It's certainly reliable would be my view.

PropQueries

Marius34 wrote: »

I'm confident census report is not precise at all in the sense of "Empty" properties. I live in Balgrifin (Dublin 13) some areas are recorded 50% vacancy.
Couple of main reasons:
1) Parkside Phase 1: many properties was in development/completed, that had address on it already. But houses were not completed, or people have not made a permanent move yet. Those are registered as vacant.
2) New Priory: an apartment buildings that due to fire issue was in no living conditions. It got almost complete rebuilt by now, and sells as new apartments. Those are registered as vacant.

There are many other reasons. And definitely not all workers in census waste a time to find out if the property is really vacant.

Good point but I don't think they include houses even 9/10ths complete. They would need to be complete and ready for occupancy so technically they were completed units and they were vacant.

myshirt

fliball123 wrote: »

As has been pointed out if the garda can do it then anyone can but you go on living in that dream of yours where human nature doesn't exist.

Your scenario only works where someone is marking their own homework. There's a whole governance process here. The plan isn't just thought up over a few jars such that some enumerator can simply not bother his arse and get away with it.

I was paid by Willie O'Dea to hand out leaflets when I was young and I dumped them all in the bin rather than hand them out. Willie found out.
And that was just a couple of leaflets. The census has a whole governance process.

PropQueries

myshirt wrote: »

Your scenario only works where someone is marking their own homework. There's a whole governance process here. The plan isn't just thought up over a few jars such that some enumerator can simply not bother his arse and get away with it.

I was paid by Willie O'Dea to hand out leaflets when I was young and I dumped them all in the bin rather than hand them out. Willie found out.
And that was just a couple of leaflets. The census has a whole governance process.

Everyone actually has good points here (even the two cocks analogy lol) and it's always good to hear other views either way. But, I think if the census figures on vacant units were way off, the various so-called vested interested e.g. estate agents etc. would have publicly debunked it. To my knowledge, they haven't so there must be some truth to the figures.

thomas 123

Cyrus wrote: »

this bemoaning of the 3.5x rule drives me mad, house prices would be a lot higher without it.

I wouldn’t call pointing out a rule that causes problems when trying to build or buy a house bemoaning.

The supply issue is driving the prices for a decent house beyond the scope of that rule.

MacronvFrugals

PropQueries wrote: »

Everyone actually has good points here (even the two cocks analogy lol) and it's always good to hear other views either way. But, I think if the census figures on vacant units were way off, the various so-called vested interested e.g. estate agents etc. would have publicly debunked it. To my knowledge, they haven't so there must be some truth to the figures.

O'Dea's a dangerous man

PropQueries

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

O'Dea's a dangerous man

It's why he keeps getting elected lol

Marius34

PropQueries wrote: »

Good point but I don't think they include houses even 9/10ths complete. They would need to be complete and ready for occupancy so technically they were completed units and they were vacant.

It did count, once it has address on it.

PropQueries

Marius34 wrote: »

It did count, once it has address on it.

Are they from the 2016 Census though?

PropQueries

PropQueries wrote: »

Are they from the 2016 Census though?

I see they're from the Census data alright. But, they must have been practically complete and ready for occupancy to be included. I can't see a house with no windows installed being included... But good information there.

Marius34

PropQueries wrote: »

Are they from the 2016 Census though?

Yes, the first picture is mainly from Parkside Phase 1, if there was any, only very few buildings (definitely not more than 50) from Phase 1 was completed by that time.
The second picture from the same Balgriffin area, New Priory apartments were empty due to fire safety. It was rebuilt later

hometruths

Surely the census report is either accurate or it is not?

i.e if you don't have any faith in one particular set of data - vacant properties - why would you have any faith in the rest of the data?

And it is the census data telling us that we have a chronic housing shortage? So are those assumptions shaky too?

PropQueries

schmittel wrote: »

Surely the census report is either accurate or it is not?

i.e if you don't have any faith in one particular set of data - vacant properties - why would you have any faith in the rest of the data?

And it is the census data telling us that we have a chronic housing shortage? So are those assumptions shaky too?

I don't think it's the Census data telling us there's a chronic shortage of supply. That's the media who are completely reliant on estate agents for their advertising income e.g. The Irish Times owns MyHome.ie and the rest make their income from either either selling advertising space to supermarkets, car dealerships or estate agents in their Sunday editions. Just have a flick through the Sunday newspapers this weekend. The 2016 Census recorded around 180,000 vacant homes in Ireland. In 2018 in England there was 216,000 and they have a population of 10 times Irelands: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/11/empty-homes-england-rises-property

awec

Are we back talking about this census thing again? Hasn’t that been shown to be nonsense time and time again on this thread?

One of the Dublin councils did an inspection of these so called vacant properties and found the majority of them were in fact occupied.

I think the reason we stopped hearing about these vacant units was that it turned out using the census to try figure out vacancy was so wildly inaccurate that the data was useless.

Gathering accurate vacancy information is very difficult, evidenced by the fact that nobody has managed to figure out how to do it yet.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

Are we back talking about this census thing again? Hasn’t that been shown to be nonsense time and time again on this thread?

One of the Dublin councils did an inspection of these so called vacant properties and found the majority of them were in fact occupied.

I think the reason we stopped hearing about these vacant units was that it turned out using the census to try figure out vacancy was so wildly inaccurate that the data was useless.

Gathering accurate vacancy information is very difficult, evidenced by the fact that nobody has managed to figure out how to do it yet.

Gathering accurate data is what the Census actually does. The information you're referring to is actually "drive-by" data on a couple of estates. I'd go by the Census figures as if they were debunked, the figures would have been changed afterwards or at the very least a disclaimer added. Census figures are very important and any information that debunks them would be noted.

hometruths

awec wrote: »

Are we back talking about this census thing again? Hasn’t that been shown to be nonsense time and time again on this thread?

One of the Dublin councils did an inspection of these so called vacant properties and found the majority of them were in fact occupied.

I think the reason we stopped hearing about these vacant units was that it turned out using the census to try figure out vacancy was so wildly inaccurate that the data was useless.

Gathering accurate vacancy information is very difficult, evidenced by the fact that nobody has managed to figure out how to do it yet.

But is it just the vacant property figures that are nonsense or the entire census?

Stands to reason that the whole thing is bogus and not worth quoting in any context.

PropQueries

schmittel wrote: »

But is it just the vacant property figures that are nonsense or the entire census?

Stands to reason that the whole thing is bogus and not worth quoting in any context.

Even if the census figures are nonsense, and if they were, the so-called vested interests e.g. estates agents, developers etc. would have already publicly debunked them (which they haven't), and the Census would have been forced to revise their figures or add a note to them, they signal a serious over-supply relative to a real city e.g. London, where our vacancy numbers are a multiple of London's figures on a per capita basis: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/11/empty-homes-england-rises-property

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

But is it just the vacant property figures that are nonsense or the entire census?

Stands to reason that the whole thing is bogus and not worth quoting in any context.

I would like to understand what criteria was used to determine if a unit is ‘vacant’. To suggest that some data within the census can’t be inaccurate is just ridiculous. Unless it suits the narrative that some claim there isn’t a shortage of property. But not even the losers on the left are claiming that.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Gathering accurate data is what the Census actually does. The information you're referring to is actually "drive-by" data on a couple of estates. I'd go by the Census figures as if they were debunked, the figures would have been changed afterwards or at the very least a disclaimer added. Census figures are very important and any information that debunks them would be noted.

There is nothing to be debunked.

The census is not designed for evaluating the number of vacant properties in Ireland. It is designed to measure population as accurately as possible. They are two very different things.

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

There is nothing to be debunked.

The census is not designed for evaluating the number of vacant properties in Ireland. It is designed to measure population as accurately as possible. They are two very different things.

Here;s the link to read for yourself. They take their recording of vacant homes very seriously: https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2016reports/census2016vacanthousingstatisticsfaqs/#:~:text=CSO%20has%20produced%20more%20results,were%20still%20vacant%20in%202016.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Here;s the link to read for yourself. They take their recording of vacant homes very seriously: https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2016reports/census2016vacanthousingstatisticsfaqs/#:~:text=CSO%20has%20produced%20more%20results,were%20still%20vacant%20in%202016.

I am aware of the link, it’s been discussed about 20 times on this forum already. Every time someone thinks they’ve uncovered some grand conspiracy between estate agents and the media and some other dark forces, the manufacturers of tin foil hats love it when this topic comes up.

Someone not answering the door when the census person calls does not indicate vacancy. It’s a incredibly flaky methodology.

Again, one of the Dublin councils literally checked this and found the majority occupied. We have a housing list that’s a decade long, if you think the councils aren’t looking into these supposed empty gaffs then you’re nuts.

Graham

Mod Note

Thread Split

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

I am aware of the link, it’s been discussed about 20 times on this forum already. Every time someone thinks they’ve uncovered some grand conspiracy between estate agents and the media and some other dark forces, the manufacturers of tin foil hats love it when this topic comes up.

Someone not answering the door when the census person calls does not indicate vacancy. It’s a incredibly flaky methodology.

Again, one of the Dublin councils literally checked this and found the majority occupied. We have a housing list that’s a decade long, if you think the councils aren’t looking into these supposed empty gaffs then you’re nuts.

No they didn't lol. I saw the interview with the previous housing minister and he actually said it was a drive-by of certain areas. If the Census figures are wrong, they would have been changed or at least a note added that there is some reason why they may be wrong and the so-called vested interests e.g estate agents, developers etc., would have demanded such an addition.

They haven't been changed so they must have being correct at that time. When you think about it, a landlord couldn't rent their property for free in 2011 and suddenly, in 2016, there was a rental shortage in Dublin. The census figures clearly state there was a population increase in Ireland of 172,000 between 2011 and 2016. Of that, over 100,000 was in the over 65's which leaves an increase of 70,000 people between 0 and 64. With 245,000 vacant properties including holiday homes, how could there possibly be a shortage?

Hubertj

PropQueries wrote: »

No they didn't lol. I saw the interview with the previous housing minister and he actually said it was a drive-by of certain areas. If the Census figures are wrong, they would have been changed or at least a note added that there is some reason why they may be wrong and the so-called vested interests e.g estate agents, developers etc., would have demanded such an addition.

They haven't been changed so they must have being correct at that time. When you think about it, a landlord couldn't rent their property for free in 2011 and suddenly, in 2016, there was a rental shortage in Dublin. The census figures clearly state there was a population increase in Ireland of 172,000 between 2011 and 2016. Of that, over 100,000 was in the over 65's which leaves an increase of 70,000 people between 0 and 64. With 245,000 vacant properties including holiday homes, how could there possibly be a shortage?

So you’re saying there is no accommodation shortage in Ireland and everyone is wrong - CSO, ESRI, Sinn Fein?

Marius34

PropQueries wrote: »

Here;s the link to read for yourself. They take their recording of vacant homes very seriously: https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2016reports/census2016vacanthousingstatisticsfaqs/#:~:text=CSO%20has%20produced%20more%20results,were%20still%20vacant%20in%202016.

From report:

"Do you know why the homes were vacant?
CSO has produced new additional figures giving an insight into why some of the 183,312 homes were vacant on Census Night. While we don’t have a complete picture, we did note that many of the homes recorded as vacant were for sale, rental properties, had a deceased owner or were being renovated. Many of these may well have been occupied again a few weeks after the Census was completed. CSO is planning on producing more complete information of this nature on vacant homes for Census 2021."

Less than 20% of vacant properties in Dublin Co. was recorded as a long term vacant. Meaning vacant on census night in 2011 and 2016.
Thus probably vast majority of those 30.000 that was recorded vacant in 2016 in Dublin, would not be vacant if we do census tonight.
And some of those that are long term vacant, are not in livable conditions, and maybe are about to be demolished.

From other report
http://airo.maynoothuniversity.ie/news/breakdown-housing-vacancy-figures-ireland
"2. Long-term Vacancy
The second category is based on properties that were vacant in both 2011 and 2016 and can be classed as ‘long-term vacant’ units. At a total of 65,039 or 35.5% of total vacant units, these properties account for 3.2% of the total housing stock. In contrast to the spatial distribution of the ‘recently vacant’ housing units the highest proportions of ‘long-term vacant’ units are within Roscommon (51.5%), Cavan (48.1%), Longford (48%) and Mayo (45.6%). Again, and as expected, lowest rates are within cities and commuters areas - South Dublin (14.8%), Fingal (16.3%), DLR (18.7%) and Dublin City (20.2%)."

hometruths

Hubertj wrote: »

I would like to understand what criteria was used to determine if a unit is ‘vacant’. To suggest that some data within the census can’t be inaccurate is just ridiculous. Unless it suits the narrative that some claim there isn’t a shortage of property. But not even the losers on the left are claiming that.

There are two sides to every narrative, I guess.

The housing shortage crisis is nonsense, look at the census

And

The housing shortage is drastic, the census is nonsense.

enricoh

myshirt wrote: »

I think you are trying to undermine the integrity of the census, and I'm not having it. This isn't a survey for a new bingo night for the community hall. It's our census. It costs a shedload. It's a strong and robust process. Of course the information should be read in the right context, but by no means is it a bunch of enumerators not bothering their arse to do the job right. It's done right

I know you didn't raise it directly but to the poster challenging the other poster with his two cocks, whether there is or isn't evidence of illegal cock fights included in the report is a side bar issue.

I may well cost a shedload but a strong and robust process- I don't think so.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-vacant-homes-may-be-grossly-overstated-1.3220063%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiB_ebrl4rrAhX6XRUIHS9wAjAQFjAAegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw3BQeAr_NbHLix3Esy4wL4Q&ampcf=1

Its study, which involved council officials visiting houses listed as vacant, found that only a very small number of houses in the north county Dublin authority area (perhaps only 50 or 60) were genuinely unoccupied, compared with the 3,000 figure stated for Fingal in the official census returns.

Hubertj

schmittel wrote: »

There are two sides to every narrative, I guess.

The housing shortage crisis is nonsense, look at the census

And

The housing shortage is drastic, the census is nonsense.

I think the link provided by Marius above gives insight into how properties were counted vacant. being renovated? So a house being renovated which is uninhabitable is counted as being vacant? For sale means vacant? Pure genius

hometruths

Hubertj wrote: »

I think the link provided by Marius above gives insight into how properties were counted vacant. being renovated? So a house being renovated which is uninhabitable is counted as being vacant? For sale means vacant? Pure genius

Marius’ link does indeed give an insight.

Of particular interest is the long term vacancies as this represents a potential oversupply. I.e the same property was vacant in 2011 and 2016.

As Marius quotes by relative numbers these are lowest in Dublin as you might expect.

But of more interest are the reasons thAt they were vacant:

Figure 9 below details the recorded reason for vacancy of the ‘long-term vacant’ units. Dublin local authorities have a much higher rate of For Sale and For Rent than the State average. Dublin City recorded more than twice the rate of For Rent than other Dublin local authorities with almost 16% of all vacant units on the rental market.

So are these houses languishing on the rental market with no takers for 5 years or is it just a coincidence that a high number of properties in Dublin just happened to be between tenants on consecutive census nights 5 years apart?

Or is there an altogether more probable explanation?