New development of houses and apartments

cubatahavana

Ready to place deposit on a house in a new development in the southside. It is a mixed development, with 48 dwellings divided in 20 x 4 and 5 bed houses and 28 apartments.

I emailed EA today regarding the apartments, as we were thinking to purchase one of the units in front of them (there are 4 houses still available of the 20). The EA got back to me saying that the apartments will be finished around September and that the developer will be keeping them. This raises a few concerns with me

- Will the developer offload them all as social housing? Would something like this be normal?
- The developer now will have a majority in the management company until the apartments are sold, so he can do whatever he pleases, as the houses will have less than a 50% presence in the MC
- am I a bit paranoid? Does anyone else see this as orange flags?

Mrs OBumble

Yes. Yes. Agreed. No. Yes.

cubatahavana

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes. Yes. Agreed. No. Yes.

To the point! Thanks

acer911

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes. Yes. Agreed. No. Yes.

Agreed that I would be worried about the situation but curious as to the assertive nature of your response. Surely it is not likely that they will all be sold as social housing - meaning c. 60% social housing in the development?

Do you have evidence of this being the done thing in some developments?

cubatahavana

I went today to speak with one of the owners of the occupied units. He was told that the apartments are going to be mainly for private renting. That would be good news. Still waiting for further clarification from EA

Mrs OBumble

acer911 wrote: »

Do you have evidence of this being the done thing in some developments?

Yes.

I even know of a development where the local authority purchased the lot, including already some completed and privately rented apartments.

acer911

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes.

I even know of a development where the local authority purchased the lot, including already some completed and privately rented apartments.

Is there any way you could protect against this from a contract perspective? I mean if you were to buy a 700k plus house and then 60% of the units were sold as social I can imagine that your house price would plummet straight away.

cubatahavana

acer911 wrote: »

Is there any way you could protect against this from a contract perspective? I mean if you were to buy a 700k plus house and then 60% of the units were sold as social I can imagine that your house price would plummet straight away.

I wouldn’t say there’s a way, as the developer will not agree to the change, but I know knitting about this.

I spoke with the EA and they confirmed that the apartments are going to be privately rented. No social. Social units will be 10% on a different apartment block. Feeling more relaxed. This is the same that what I was told by a home owner in the development today.

cubatahavana

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes.

I even know of a development where the local authority purchased the lot, including already some completed and privately rented apartments.

Where was that development if you don’t mind me asking?

Mrs OBumble

cubatahavana wrote: »

Where was that development if you don’t mind me asking?

Galway city.

Cuddlesworth

cubatahavana wrote: »

I wouldn’t say there’s a way, as the developer will not agree to the change, but I know knitting about this.

I spoke with the EA and they confirmed that the apartments are going to be privately rented. No social. Social units will be 10% on a different apartment block. Feeling more relaxed. This is the same that what I was told by a home owner in the development today.

Ask him to put that in a contract with penalties.

em_cat

acer911 wrote: »

Is there any way you could protect against this from a contract perspective?

No, buyers solicitor could try, but the vendor (developer) in this case would not agree, it severely limits the possible financial gain or leverage with the council or housing body.

I mean if you were to buy a 700k plus house and then 60% of the units were sold as social I can imagine that your house price would plummet straight away.

Not a legal argument, I only know because we had to go thru it. The whole Buyer beware clause comes into play here.

DaveyDave

cubatahavana wrote: »

I wouldn’t say there’s a way, as the developer will not agree to the change, but I know knitting about this.

I spoke with the EA and they confirmed that the apartments are going to be privately rented. No social. Social units will be 10% on a different apartment block. Feeling more relaxed. This is the same that what I was told by a home owner in the development today.

I thought they weren't allowed tell people where social housing would be? If I knew travellers would be moved into the house I bought 4 months ago I would have picked a different one...

acer911

DaveyDave wrote: »

I thought they weren't allowed tell people where social housing would be? If I knew travellers would be moved into the house I bought 4 months ago I would have picked a different one...

Would have thought the same alright, maybe it was an off the record comment. Not great situation to be in for yourself. Have you had much hassle over it?

cubatahavana

DaveyDave wrote: »

I thought they weren't allowed tell people where social housing would be? If I knew travellers would be moved into the house I bought 4 months ago I would have picked a different one...

Meant that EA said that they won’t be sold as social, that they’ll be private rental. They didn’t say where they’ll be. I assumed myself a different apartment block. They mentioned 10% allocation to social.

I wouldn’t mind 10% social. It is the way it is in a new development. I live now in clongriffin where there’s plenty of social housing and there is rarely a problem I would mind if they sold all to social as it could create a guetto, more than integrating people

cubatahavana

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Ask him to put that in a contract with penalties.

What does this mean?

kravmaga

cubatahavana wrote: »

I spoke with the EA and they confirmed that the apartments are going to be privately rented. No social. Social units will be 10% on a different apartment block. Feeling more relaxed. This is the same that what I was told by a home owner in the development today.

Social allocation in a New development by a builder is usually much higher than 10%, its a sweetener for the council by the builder.

I would suggest a figure of 25/30 % , so buyer beware, EA is a sales agent, dont believe everything they tell you, he/ she just wants the sale, they will tell you anything in order to get it.

brisan

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Galway city.

The same happened in Coolock Village

Hollybeg

cubatahavana wrote: »

Ready to place deposit on a house in a new development in the southside. It is a mixed development, with 48 dwellings divided in 20 x 4 and 5 bed houses and 28 apartments.

I emailed EA today regarding the apartments, as we were thinking to purchase one of the units in front of them (there are 4 houses still available of the 20). The EA got back to me saying that the apartments will be finished around September and that the developer will be keeping them. This raises a few concerns with me

- Will the developer offload them all as social housing? Would something like this be normal?
- The developer now will have a majority in the management company until the apartments are sold, so he can do whatever he pleases, as the houses will have less than a 50% presence in the MC
- am I a bit paranoid? Does anyone else see this as orange flags?

A developer holding on to a block of apartments in this climate? One word... HAP.

brisan

Hollybeg wrote: »

A developer holding on to a block of apartments in this climate? One word... HAP.

Guaranteed
Long term guaranteed rental income at 85% of market rate
A nice cash flow for future developments and nice figures to take to the bank

cubatahavana

Well, it doesn’t really need to be like that, does it? Look at the likes of Vesta in clongriffin. Very good quality apartments rented exclusively privately. As well, the credibility of the developer will go down if they provide >50% of a luxury development to HAP/social housing. Let’s be cautious, though...

cubatahavana

brisan wrote: »

The same happened in Coolock Village

Don’t want to sound elitist, but Coolock is not the best of neighborhoods

brisan

cubatahavana wrote: »

Don’t want to sound elitist, but Coolock is not the best of neighborhoods

The whole estate bought by the council
3-4-5 BED 3 story houses in a horseshoe around a large green right in the centre of a village with every possible amenity on your doorstep

cubatahavana

brisan wrote: »

The whole estate bought by the council
3-4-5 BED 3 story houses in a horseshoe around a large green right in the centre of a village with every possible amenity on your doorstep

I could understand selling the whole lot, but selling over half of it after selling really expensive homes within the development seems counterintuitive to me, as nobody would buy again from that developer, not a 700k home at least

cubatahavana

Again, I’m not saying it’s not going to happen. I’m being cautious myself at the moment. Let’s see what the solicitor says

acer911

brisan wrote: »

The whole estate bought by the council
3-4-5 BED 3 story houses in a horseshoe around a large green right in the centre of a village with every possible amenity on your doorstep

This was obviously pre-agreed and fully sold to council? What the OP is concerned about here is buying a 700k plus house in an estate that will end up with 50% or more council housing.

Hard to know what way it will play out, on one hand you would think that it would damage the builders reputation if it did happen but the guaranteed income could make it a real possibility.

Caranica

There's nothing to stop any purchaser from renting their property to the Council so you can never guarantee that you won't have social housing next door. Social housing tenants, like private tenants, are primarily decent people, often working but on low wages. It's wrong to tar people with the same brush, there are bad tenants/neighbours in both groups.

PhoenixParker

Hollybeg wrote: »

A developer holding on to a block of apartments in this climate? One word... HAP.

None of the developers have been selling individual apartment units in the last few years. They've all gone to REITs either in house or sold off. They might end up as HAP due to the economic downturn but them not being sold doesn't say much.

RANIA

Where in Galway is this, roscam?

Mrs OBumble

RANIA wrote: »

Where in Galway is this, roscam?

East side. But not Roscam (that I know of anyways).

StoptheClocks

Sometimes the developer will hold back houses to get a better price for them when the development is finished.
If the houses are overlooked by apartments then they will be less desirable to sell if the demand isn't there at the beginning.
He/she can get a better price after the other houses are occupied and the feedback is good on the development.

acer911

StoptheClocks wrote: »

Sometimes the developer will hold back houses to get a better price for them when the development is finished.
If the houses are overlooked by apartments then they will be less desirable to sell if the demand isn't there at the beginning.
He/she can get a better price after the other houses are occupied and the feedback is good on the development.

The issue is he is holding back apartments for an unknown reason, not the houses.

Idbatterim

Wouidnt trust a word from any of them ! Would you not buy in established development ?

cubatahavana

Idbatterim wrote: »

Wouidnt trust a word from any of them ! Would you not buy in established development ?

At the moment the only nice looking homes (at least for us) are new builds. Cannot find any decent size that doesn't need a ton of work

StoptheClocks

cubatahavana wrote: »

At the moment the only nice looking homes (at least for us) are new builds. Cannot find any decent size that doesn't need a ton of work

I also came to this conclusion. Bought in a new build at the start of the year. It has houses over looked with apartments. One of the blocks has been finished and empty since I moved in. I've heard that it going to be for assisted living for retired people that live on their own. Not sure if this is true as you couldn't believe the word of developer/EA's.
It just strange to see a finished empty apartment block (over 8 months) and there is a housing crisis. Someone is paying the interest on the bank loans that built those apartments.

stinkbomb

You know most social housing these days is housing associations, right? Not council housing, or homeless accomodation etc. And the people who live in social housing are generally perfectly nice, normal people, the majority of them with jobs and lives just like yours? They aren't bogeymen who will destroy your house prices and eat your children.

Most new build estates have social and council housing scattered in, and you generally can't tell who is owner occupied and who is renting from a HA or the council. Why are people scared of them, just because they don't earn enough to buy?

DaveyDave

stinkbomb wrote: »

You know most social housing these days is housing associations, right? Not council housing, or homeless accomodation etc. And the people who live in social housing are generally perfectly nice, normal people, the majority of them with jobs and lives just like yours? They aren't bogeymen who will destroy your house prices and eat your children.

Most new build estates have social and council housing scattered in, and you generally can't tell who is owner occupied and who is renting from a HA or the council. Why are people scared of them, just because they don't earn enough to buy?

People are scared to buy because all it takes is a few scumbag families to ruin an area. Doesn't matter how many social houses are normal people, the handful that are knackers will cause issues for everyone around them and they don't fit in with the rest of the residents in the area.

My mam is on HAP, she worked until she became ill. She lives in what used to be a quiet estate in a nice area until a few undesirable families moved in. Now there's kids damaging cars, parents threatening other residents and wonderful visitors threatening them.

I live in a new estate. Residents are having issues with the apartment block which is mostly social. They're the only ones blaring music, shouting or stealing people's assigned parking. I've seen the Gardai have been there numerous times when driving past. Someone there is known to Gardai and has been making rounds breaking into cars in the area.

I had to call Gardai on my own neighbors because they were screaming at each other for over two hours. It only stopped when Gardai arrived. They scream at each other every 2-3 days anyway but only this was at 2am and I was trying to sleep I wouldn't have called.

You wouldn't notice the normal people who are getting housing because they keep to themselves and don't cause issues.

cubatahavana

DaveyDave wrote: »

People are scared to buy because all it takes is a few scumbag families to ruin an area. Doesn't matter how many social houses are normal people, the handful that are knackers will cause issues for everyone around them and they don't fit in with the rest of the residents in the area.

My mam is on HAP, she worked until she became ill. She lives in what used to be a quiet estate in a nice area until a few undesirable families moved in. Now there's kids damaging cars, parents threatening other residents and wonderful visitors threatening them. Didn't see anyone getting arrested there until they showed up.

I live in a new estate. Residents are having issues with the apartment block which is mostly social. They're the only ones blaring music, shouting or stealing people's assigned parking. I've seen the Gardai have been there numerous times when driving past and I've seen groups of dodgy looking people outside who look like they belong at a methadone clinic.

A resident at one of the duplexes is known to Gardai and has been making rounds breaking into cars in the area. I hear they're in the process of being evicted. She even attacked someone with a weapon.

I had to call Gardai on my own neighbors because they were screaming at each other for over two hours. It only stopped when Gardai arrived. They scream at each other every 2-3 days anyway but only this was at 2am and I was trying to sleep I wouldn't have called.

You wouldn't notice the normal people who are getting housing because they keep to themselves and don't cause issues.

This, this is exactly why we are worried. I live in an area with social housing now and there are minimal issues. Having said that, it only takes a couple of undesirable families to ruin an area. In my own experience, this has been more likely to happen in areas with social housing

jd

I would not buy in a development where there is one OMC, and houses and apartments. The chance of conflict between house and apartment owners is too high.

cubatahavana

jd wrote: »

I would not buy in a development where there is one OMC, and houses and apartments. The chance of conflict between house and apartment owners is too high.

I’ve been told that the management company is for the apartments only, so at least that’s less of a worry. My solicitor will clear that up for me

Caranica

jd wrote: »

I would not buy in a development where there is one OMC, and houses and apartments. The chance of conflict between house and apartment owners is too high.

Not necessarily. The main thing would to be sure that fees are allocated relative to services received eg houses don't pay for cleaning of internal hallways leading to the apartments. I wish that was how ours worked, but it isn't. Our houses and apartments get on ok, I've been a director from the start and there's never been tension or conflict as you suggest.

stinkbomb

Scumbag families also own houses. My worst ever neighbours were owner occupiers who complained about renters moving in but it was them who were incredibly noisy and who had a drug dealing teenager living with them!

smellyoldboot

Stay well away from anywhere you will have council tenants beside. Yeah most will be quiet enough but if you get a bad one, the council will do nothing and let the problem fester for years while you suffer away while paying a big mortgage.

This social mixing they are doing at the minute will only make the lives of hardworking people who pay for their properties harder. It won't do anything to upgrade the behaviour of Darren and Jacinta. You can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. Run don't walk away at the smell of council involvement.

brisan

acer911 wrote: »

This was obviously pre-agreed and fully sold to council? What the OP is concerned about here is buying a 700k plus house in an estate that will end up with 50% or more council housing.

Hard to know what way it will play out, on one hand you would think that it would damage the builders reputation if it did happen but the guaranteed income could make it a real possibility.

Houses were originally on the open market and then pulled rather sharpish.