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Alternative REX fuels

  • 31-07-2020 8:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21,350 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    Electric is cheaper than petrol, but I would agree a lot of people have very low value on their own time, :D buying a car that has to be charged every 200-450 km your going to be at some stage stuck waiting at a charger unlike an outlander or i3 rex and some of the newer merc's coming, one can simple keep going and charge when its convenient, :D:D:D

    The Rex is great, it's a pity it can run on biofuels but the Government made sure to kill that by piling on the tax, there were a good few placed to fill up but over night the fools killed bio fuels in Ireland. Rex burning bio fuel would have been nice.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    Mad_Lad wrote:
    The Rex is great, it's a pity it can run on biofuels but the Government made sure to kill that by piling on the tax, there were a good few placed to fill up but over night the fools killed bio fuels in Ireland. Rex burning bio fuel would have been nice.
    Could be a even ethanol. And it may be a fuel cell in future too.

    Rex is a a brilliant concept, whatever powers it. I don't understand why it hasn't taken off. It's a no-brainer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,350 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    McGiver wrote: »
    Could be a even ethanol. And it may be a fuel cell in future too.

    Rex is a a brilliant concept, whatever powers it. I don't understand why it hasn't taken off. It's a no-brainer.

    Mazda is supposed to be releasing something like the Rex soon.

    Yeah, Rex it's so convenient. Ethanol is what I was thinking, Ethanol was gaining traction until the Government thought they could make tonnes of money by taxing the sh1t out of it but it caused the price to go way up and they killed it.

    A fuel cell would be fine if they could make the fuel efficiently, but it's very energy intensive, still excess renewable energy could be used, Nuclear is a good way to produce hydrogen, clean energy 0 emissions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭ Zenith74


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Ethanol is what I was thinking, Ethanol was gaining traction until the Government thought they could make tonnes of money by taxing the sh1t out of it but it caused the price to go way up and they killed it.

    I’m sure it wasn’t deliberate on the part of our government, but they‘ve ended up making a good decision halting the rise of ethanol. The last thing the world needs is another reason to cut down rainforests to plant more crops (to make into ethanol). The diversity crisis wasn’t as we’ll publicised when they made their decision, but it’s plain for all to see now. Moving from fossil fuels to biofuels is just hopping from one environmental disaster to the next.

    EVs powered by solar/wind/nuclear and clean hydrogen for heavier transport is the future, not ploughing vast quantities of the world’s remaining animal habitats to plant corn/whatever to make biofuels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,350 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Zenith74 wrote: »
    I’m sure it wasn’t deliberate on the part of our government, but they‘ve ended up making a good decision halting the rise of ethanol. The last thing the world needs is another reason to cut down rainforests to plant more crops (to make into ethanol). The diversity crisis wasn’t as we’ll publicised when they made their decision, but it’s plain for all to see now. Moving from fossil fuels to biofuels is just hopping from one environmental disaster to the next.

    EVs powered by solar/wind/nuclear and clean hydrogen for heavier transport is the future, not ploughing vast quantities of the world’s remaining animal habitats to plant corn/whatever to make biofuels.

    You can't stop cutting the rain forest, it will be gone at some point in the future, there is money to be made from it and farmers need the land, yes, they could farm more sustainably but so could Irish Farmers, we feed 7 - 8 times our population.

    All Irish Natural Forest is gone, Ireland is one of the, if not thee of the most deforested lands in continental Europe and it's shameful, Farmers won't plant hardwood forest, yet they're the ones who decimated these forests in the first place, commercial companies plant Spruce dirt because it grows fast in out Climate only to have it cut down as fast as possible for maximum return.

    Look at out green spaces on google maps of Ireland and compare it to the U.K, just a tiny part of Wales alone has more Forest than all of Ireland, shocking stuff, we're greatly deprived of Natural forest in Ireland.

    Anyway, Bio Fuels would have been a good stepping stone and Farmers were looking for was to make more money after the E.U shut down the Sugar industry in Ireland. Cars like the i3 Rex would use very little Biofuels so the damage done via farming wouldn't have been much worse than for sugar beat harvesting and it could have meant less imported energy.

    Fuel cells would probably not have any more impact than making engines.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    It took about 200 years for the Irish forests to be stripped for shipbuilding, iron works, and then the English plantations.

    Land use for automotive fuel is pretty inefficient, we have alternatives. Biofuels were probably a good idea between 2005 and 2015, but EV tech has developed enough that we probably shouldn't bother anymore. Your reliance on the REX is a function of the barebones network and buying a car that doesn't have a big enough range. Now that 400km cars are affordable putting a REX in them is probably a daft idea. There was one report saying that the I3 will receive one final battery upgrade using 150Ah or 160Ah cells. It's impressive that a 2013 car will have seen a 250% increase in battery in around 8 years. It really highlights how quickly li-ion batteries have improved.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/biofuels-blended-in-petrol-and-diesel-to-increase-to-10-from-2019-426741

    I would not bother so much trying to increase bio fuel production, unless its for generating heat or electricity, at the moment 10% or so of all fuel for road transport is bio fuel, keeping that production level and reducing the need for fossil fuel, we can simply increase the % of bio till the time comes its at 100%.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    For heating purposes, their are investments in biomethane, you use a anaerobic digester to capture the methane, and then use that as renewable gas. I wonder what the economics of converting that to LPG would be like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    Its fed into some natural gas pipe lines somewhere in the world I think,
    Guy near me has one, uses cow poop and food waste to make methane and then a generator to make electricity.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,819 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    liamog wrote: »
    It's impressive that a 2013 car will have seen a 250% increase in battery in around 8 years.

    And to strengthen your point: while getting cheaper with each bigger battery pack.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    liamog wrote:
    Land use for automotive fuel is pretty inefficient, we have alternatives. Biofuels were probably a good idea between 2005 and 2015, but EV tech has developed enough that we probably shouldn't bother anymore. Your reliance on the REX is a function of the barebones network and buying a car that doesn't have a big enough range. Now that 400km cars are affordable putting a REX in them is probably a daft idea. There was one report saying that the I3 will receive one final battery upgrade using 150Ah or 160Ah cells. It's impressive that a 2013 car will have seen a 250% increase in battery in around 8 years. It really highlights how quickly li-ion batteries have improved.

    Don't agree regarding batteries. Unless you have a 100 kWh battery, which won't be the standard due to the costs and weight (I predict batteries will stabilise at ~50-55 kWh), you will always need to make a stop somewhere to charge, even in Ireland, and the larger the battery the more it will take to charge. The DC charging speeds aren't growing consistently with battery capacity apart from Tesla.

    You won't see 300% increase in capacity in the next 8 years. Li-ion cells are at the limit, and the alternatives are not ready both from cost and manufacturing point of view (Na-ion, K-ion, Li-S, graphene, various solid state batteries).

    The Rex is a brilliant idea, unlike PHEV which is the worst of both ICE and BEV worlds. Some sort of range extender is very handy, in winter especially or in scenarios where you need immediate or constant action. For example the whole Garda fleet, Ambulance, Delivery services, could switch immediately to cars with Rex without significant impact, they could charge overnight at stations/depots, but be operational during the day with Rex as a back-up.

    Also, for many people Rex would be important safeguard and convince them to go for EV, it's somewhat lesser risk. Without it, they wouldn't, unless the charging is ubiquitous. But still - even if the charger is free - you have to wait anyway... Rex eliminates that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    liamog wrote:
    For heating purposes, their are investments in biomethane, you use a anaerobic digester to capture the methane, and then use that as renewable gas. I wonder what the economics of converting that to LPG would be like.
    Biomethane from rubbish/waste is a big thing in Sweden. Really cool.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,350 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    McGiver wrote: »
    Don't agree regarding batteries. Unless you have a 100 kWh battery, which won't be the standard due to the costs and weight (I predict batteries will stabilise at ~50-55 kWh), you will always need to make a stop somewhere to charge, even in Ireland, and the larger the battery the more it will take to charge. The DC charging speeds aren't growing consistently with battery capacity apart from Tesla.

    You won't see 300% increase in capacity in the next 8 years. Li-ion cells are at the limit, and the alternatives are not ready both from cost and manufacturing point of view (Na-ion, K-ion, Li-S, graphene, various solid state batteries).

    The Rex is a brilliant idea, unlike PHEV which is the worst of both ICE and BEV worlds. Some sort of range extender is very handy, in winter especially or in scenarios where you need immediate or constant action. For example the whole Garda fleet, Ambulance, Delivery services, could switch immediately to cars with Rex without significant impact, they could charge overnight at stations/depots, but be operational during the day with Rex as a back-up.

    Also, for many people Rex would be important safeguard and convince them to go for EV, it's somewhat lesser risk. Without it, they wouldn't, unless the charging is ubiquitous. But still - even if the charger is free - you have to wait anyway... Rex eliminates that.

    Yeah agree with all the above, why do we see teslas/Konas at chargers ? more range means less need for charging but you still need to charge like ICE cars need to refuel, if we go away in the Outlander we'll still need Diesel.....

    Chargers in use, broken, leafs charging on 150 Kw chargers etc, it's mostly non Rex owners who criticise the Rex.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    The ranges available on today's cars don't need a 300% increase. That would give a Kona a 1200km range, it's just a massive waste to be carrying that battery around.

    People with a REX will extoll its virtues, but the economics just don't work out for them, its alot of equipment to be lugging around just to avoid a charging stop. They were great when charging networks were sparse, but that's changing massively. I don't think we'll see a serious new generation of REXs on the market.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭ redcup342


    McGiver wrote: »
    Also, for many people Rex would be important safeguard and convince them to go for EV, it's somewhat lesser risk. Without it, they wouldn't, unless the charging is ubiquitous. But still - even if the charger is free - you have to wait anyway... Rex eliminates that.

    Actually free charging is the problem and why the chargers are always occupied, people don't move when they are done charging


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,396 ✭✭✭ jhegarty


    liamog wrote: »
    The ranges available on today's cars don't need a 300% increase. That would give a Kona a 1200km range, it's just a massive waste to be carrying that battery around.

    People with a REX will extoll its virtues, but the economics just don't work out for them, its alot of equipment to be lugging around just to avoid a charging stop. They were great when charging networks were sparse, but that's changing massively. I don't think we'll see a serious new generation of REXs on the market.


    The Rex was the best idea ever on the < 30 kWh batteries. But their day is gone (in Ireland at least) in a > 50 kWh world.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Chargers in use, broken, leafs charging on 150 Kw chargers etc, it's mostly non Rex owners who criticise the Rex.

    People who own cars without a REX don't see the point of them, people who own cars with one justify their ownership. It's a classic case of ownership bias. REXs should have been more widely available a few years back, but that ship has sailed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Redesign and rebuilt our cities from New and design out all wasteful car journeys. The fuel argument becomes redundant when the issue is tackled at source.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭ Casati


    The Rex seems v outdated now and will be confined to the history books soon enough anyway. The idea that you would stick a 650cc generator and petrol tank into a Tesla or Niro or Kona in case you run short on battery sounds fairly daft doesn’t it?

    Imagine a police car or ambulance driving flat out up a hill when the Rex kicks and the max speed falling to 50mph while the generator try’s to produce enough power to keep up with demand, that defo isn’t worth the risk, especially when the total range is less than a decent EV

    While the best ev’s are still expensive proper PHEV’s will continue to grow in sales as they offer folks like me who typically do 40km a day or less, to run in ev mode most of the time yet still ensures that we have a range of circa 1000km for those times we might have to do a long trip-

    E.g I often do 650km/ 6hrs a day driving and the last thing I want to do is waste time charging or filling up with fuel, and although an EV to meet my needs doesn’t exist in a reasonable price point it’s great to see so many reasonable priced PHEV’s that will do that job economically. I’d be stopping to fill the tiny petrol tank about 5 times in an I3 Rex if I wasn’t able to stop and charge


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