Life in the Netherlands

andyd12

I am Irish guy, living in the netherlands, Amersfoort, with a Dutch girlfriend. Living here around a year now.
What are people's opinion on living in the NL by comparison to Ireland?
Personally I find it very difficult to fit in or seeing myself settling...

Fritzbox

andyd12 wrote: »

I am Irish guy, living in the netherlands, Amersfoort, with a Dutch girlfriend. Living here around a year now.
What are people's opinion on living in the NL by comparison to Ireland?
Personally I find it very difficult to fit in or seeing myself settling...

1 year is a very short period before you can learn to adapt to a new country - really, you have still only just arrived - it will take a while before you get the hang of things and overcome the initial culture shock. 3 questions arise:

how old are you?
What do you do for a living and are you doing it in the Netherlands?
How successful are you at learning the language, bearing in mind you will have to learn it if you are to gain any kind of credibility with the Dutch people over a longer period of time?

andyd12

Fritzbox wrote: »

1 year is a very short period before you can learn to adapt to a new country - really, you have still only just arrived - it will take a while before you get the hang of things and overcome the initial culture shock. 3 questions arise:

how old are you?
What do you do for a living and are you doing it in the Netherlands?
How successful are you at learning the language, bearing in mind you will have to learn it if you are to gain any kind of credibility with the Dutch people over a longer period of time?

Yes I agree, I lived in Canada for 2 years and took time to settle there also.
I have traveled to Holland many times before so was not completely blind coming over.

I am 33, work as an engineer in NL, Bunschoten-Spakenburg, a town everyone in Holland knows.
Pretty good I would think, better than most expats I meet, speaking can be difficult but I find understanding not very difficult anymore. Work can be quite technical so often just revert to English to save time and stop people and me from getting frustrated. I find it an incredibly boring language, the same words used all the f.. .ing time, food is only ever lekker, events are always gezellig etc

I have 38 holiday days, getting reasonably well paid considering I am only finished college 1 year. I cycle a half hour to work. Living on mainland Europe has its advantages if covid would piss off.

However, when I look at house prices. The lack of space, freedom, landscape. Food is of a poorer quality than Ireland. People are not as friendly as Irish people. Zero spontaneity, everything has to be planned, parties always start/end at set times etc

I find it a difficult place to forsee myself living here for the rest of my life surrounded by people, busy highways, supermarkets all the time

amadangomor

Lived in the Hague for two years. Good experience and I found the people nice enough but you don't get that warmth you get from a lot of Irish people (We are probably losing it a bit).

One incident made me decide to leave.

I got injured slightly at work because I couldn't wear all the protective gear in 35 degree heat. My colleague knew of something that I could get to help my injury as he had the same thing before but refused because I deserved to suffer the full consequences due to my bad decision.

Irish people have our faults but don't think we think in this heartless way. Certainly growing up in a rural area where everyone looks out for each other this was a shock.

I didn't start moaning I just made plans and left 2 weeks later.

Mad_maxx

amadangomor wrote: »

Lived in the Hague for two years. Good experience and I found the people nice enough but you don't get that warmth you get from a lot of Irish people (We are probably losing it a bit).

One incident made me decide to leave.

I got injured slightly at work because I couldn't wear all the protective gear in 35 degree heat. My colleague knew of something that I could get to help my injury as he had the same thing before but refused because I deserved to suffer the full consequences due to my bad decision.

Irish people have our faults but don't think we think in this heartless way. Certainly growing up in a rural area where everyone looks out for each other this was a shock.

I didn't start moaning I just made plans and left 2 weeks later.

That's the strong calvinist influence you encountered

stevek93

I was planning on moving to NL but ended up buying a house in Ireland instead.

I spent a month travelling NL from bottom to top I must have stayed in every major city even the small ones to see if I would enjoy living there and to get a taste of the country.
I even spent a year studying Dutch I really enjoyed the language the people and country I wouldn’t be complaining about it being boring it makes it easier to lean that having to learn loads of words for example a sentence in English could have 20 words in Dutch could be 5.

The food is so much better quality Albert Hijn is a very high quality supermarket we don’t have here, the public transport is fantastic the cycle paths and just the niceness of the cites.

You should tell the Dutch people you aren’t from the UK rather you are from Ireland they warm to you much more. Sometimes they confused being from the UK and their attitude changes completely when I told them I was Irish. They talk for hours like the Irish I noticed and always very welcoming.

I am not to sure what upset you OP but I can’t fault anything with the country.

Granadino

What about north NL? Would the population thin out a bit as you head up north? To Friesland etc.

listermint

stevek93 wrote: »

I was planning on moving to NL but ended up buying a house in Ireland instead.

I spent a month travelling NL from bottom to top I must have stayed in every major city even the small ones to see if I would enjoy living there and to get a taste of the country.
I even spent a year studying Dutch I really enjoyed the language the people and country I wouldn’t be complaining about it being boring it makes it easier to lean that having to learn loads of words for example a sentence in English could have 20 words in Dutch could be 5.

The food is so much better quality Albert Hijn is a very high quality supermarket we don’t have here, the public transport is fantastic the cycle paths and just the niceness of the cites.

You should tell the Dutch people you aren’t from the UK rather you are from Ireland they warm to you much more. Sometimes they confused being from the UK and their attitude changes completely when I told them I was Irish. They talk for hours like the Irish I noticed and always very welcoming.

I am not to sure what upset you OP but I can’t fault anything with the country.

But bought a house here instead. Head scratcher.. lot of effort there just to stay....

stevek93

listermint wrote: »

But bought a house here instead. Head scratcher.. lot of effort there just to stay....

Would you like to contribute something to the OP instead of a meaningless post?

dubrov

In fairness, holidaying for a month in the country is completely different to living there

stevek93

dubrov wrote: »

In fairness, holidaying for a month in the country is completely different to living there

Yes of course, but it gives some insight to the country other than just blindly moving there. I visited the local councils and town halls to ask questions about accommodation etc. I had meetings with local recruitment agencies about what work is possible and stayed with locals rather than booking hotels. It was more so to find as a much info as I could whilst I was there.

irelandrover

I currently live in Eindhoven which I have found pretty easy to settle into. There are a lot of expats and dutch that move here for work that dont know a lot of people when they move which means the Dutch seem more open to new friendships. It makes it a lot harder to speak Dutch as English is the main languagebut easier to make friends.

I also lived in Hengelo and Arnhem and found it much tougher to settle. People seem a lot more closed off or willing to accept new friends. Especially in Hengelo people seemed to have the same friends since primary school. My wife is dutch and was surprised at the difference in the friendliness of the people in Eindhoven compared to the north.

I'm not sure what advice to give you as i found it very tough to settle in the north so completely recognize what you say. I was 3 years in Hengelo and 2 in Arnhem and eventually gave up. You have to speak Dutch there. But even if you do speak dutch people still have the same cliques anyway.

Flimsy_Boat

andyd12 wrote: »

Yes I agree, I lived in Canada for 2 years and took time to settle there also.
I have traveled to Holland many times before so was not completely blind coming over.

I am 33, work as an engineer in NL, Bunschoten-Spakenburg, a town everyone in Holland knows.
Pretty good I would think, better than most expats I meet, speaking can be difficult but I find understanding not very difficult anymore. Work can be quite technical so often just revert to English to save time and stop people and me from getting frustrated. I find it an incredibly boring language, the same words used all the f.. .ing time, food is only ever lekker, events are always gezellig etc

I have 38 holiday days, getting reasonably well paid considering I am only finished college 1 year. I cycle a half hour to work. Living on mainland Europe has its advantages if covid would piss off.

However, when I look at house prices. The lack of space, freedom, landscape. Food is of a poorer quality than Ireland. People are not as friendly as Irish people. Zero spontaneity, everything has to be planned, parties always start/end at set times etc

I find it a difficult place to forsee myself living here for the rest of my life surrounded by people, busy highways, supermarkets all the time

I find your observations interesting to read. You could start a blog!

stevek93

irelandrover wrote: »

I currently live in Eindhoven which I have found pretty easy to settle into. There are a lot of expats and dutch that move here for work that dont know a lot of people when they move which means the Dutch seem more open to new friendships. It makes it a lot harder to speak Dutch as English is the main languagebut easier to make friends.

I also lived in Hengelo and Arnhem and found it much tougher to settle. People seem a lot more closed off or willing to accept new friends. Especially in Hengelo people seemed to have the same friends since primary school. My wife is dutch and was surprised at the difference in the friendliness of the people in Eindhoven compared to the north.

I'm not sure what advice to give you as i found it very tough to settle in the north so completely recognize what you say. I was 3 years in Hengelo and 2 in Arnhem and eventually gave up. You have to speak Dutch there. But even if you do speak dutch people still have the same cliques anyway.

When I popped into Zundert down south for a visit I was getting the impression from the Dutch “who are these people in our town” and I got same impression in Breda. They are unusual places tourist go I suppose. Eindhoven on the other hand was much more welcoming.

andyd12

stevek93 wrote: »

I was planning on moving to NL but ended up buying a house in Ireland instead.

I spent a month travelling NL from bottom to top I must have stayed in every major city even the small ones to see if I would enjoy living there and to get a taste of the country.
I even spent a year studying Dutch I really enjoyed the language the people and country I wouldn’t be complaining about it being boring it makes it easier to lean that having to learn loads of words for example a sentence in English could have 20 words in Dutch could be 5.

The food is so much better quality Albert Hijn is a very high quality supermarket we don’t have here, the public transport is fantastic the cycle paths and just the niceness of the cites.

You should tell the Dutch people you aren’t from the UK rather you are from Ireland they warm to you much more. Sometimes they confused being from the UK and their attitude changes completely when I told them I was Irish. They talk for hours like the Irish I noticed and always very welcoming.

I am not to sure what upset you OP but I can’t fault anything with the country.

In fairness you are talking rubbish. You spent a poxy month here, big whoop!!

Albert heijn is no better than any supermarket in Ireland, if anything more expensive and definitely less choice.

I don't tell people I am from UK and not sure where you got that idea. I am Irish so I tell people I am Irish...

Agreed they have nicer cities but outside that the countryside is painfully boring.

Nothing upset me, I am just stating my opinion and think I am in a stronger position than you in that matter.

andyd12

Granadino wrote: »

What about north NL? Would the population thin out a bit as you head up north? To Friesland etc.

Yes I considered that but still quite populated. An option though perhaps

andyd12

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

I find your observations interesting to read. You could start a blog!

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not here?!?...

stevek93

andyd12 wrote: »

In fairness you are talking rubbish. You spent a poxy month here, big whoop!!

Albert heijn is no better than any supermarket in Ireland, if anything more expensive and definitely less choice.

I don't tell people I am from UK and not sure where you got that idea. I am Irish so I tell people I am Irish...

Agreed they have nicer cities but outside that the countryside is painfully boring.

Nothing upset me, I am just stating my opinion and think I am in a stronger position than you in that matter.

It looks like my post upset you.

Albert Heijn yes there is less choice of Irish products if that is what you are thinking. For example their sausages are weird and no rashers but there is plentifully amount of products to choose from, some really nice things that aren’t in Ireland schnitzel for one. Also you have Aldi Lidl and Jumbo, Jumbo is also very good and also have loads of products.

I never said you tell people you are from the UK. When I was in NL the Dutch thought I was from the UK but warmed more to me when I said I am from Ireland.

If you don’t like boring countryside then how do you like Ireland it’s full of it.

andyd12

stevek93 wrote: »

It looks like my post upset you.

Albert Heijn yes there is less choice of Irish products if that is what you are thinking. For example their sausages are weird and no rashers but there is plentifully amount of products to choose from, some really nice things that aren’t in Ireland schnitzel for one. Also you have Aldi Lidl and Jumbo, Jumbo is also very good and also have loads of products.

I never said you tell people you are from the UK. When I was in NL the Dutch thought I was from the UK but warmed more to me when I said I am from Ireland.

If you don’t like boring countryside then you how you like Ireland it’s full of it.

Your last comment, really sums your actual knowledge of both countries. Calling Ireland's countryside boring is quite the statement.

stevek93

andyd12 wrote: »

Your last comment, really sums your actual knowledge of both countries. Calling Ireland's countryside boring is quite the statement.

I never said Ireland’s country side is boring I took the words you used “boring countryside” and mentioned Ireland has plentiful of countryside. How do you like Ireland or maybe you don’t like Ireland either? :rolleyes:

andyd12

stevek93 wrote: »

I never said Ireland’s country side is boring I took the words you used “boring countryside” and mentioned Ireland has plentiful of countryside. How do you like Ireland or maybe you don’t like Ireland either? :rolleyes:

Oh man, you are a rukker. Your expert knowledge of NL will figure that out

andyd12

amadangomor wrote: »

Lived in the Hague for two years. Good experience and I found the people nice enough but you don't get that warmth you get from a lot of Irish people (We are probably losing it a bit).

One incident made me decide to leave.

I got injured slightly at work because I couldn't wear all the protective gear in 35 degree heat. My colleague knew of something that I could get to help my injury as he had the same thing before but refused because I deserved to suffer the full consequences due to my bad decision.

Irish people have our faults but don't think we think in this heartless way. Certainly growing up in a rural area where everyone looks out for each other this was a shock.

I didn't start moaning I just made plans and left 2 weeks later.

That is annoying for sure. I am from a similar situation in Ireland, there is a distinct lack of real community due to the population, everyone is much more in it for themselves here

dubrov

andyd12 wrote:

Oh man, you are a rukker. Your expert knowledge of NL will figure that out

You asked for opinions which SteveK offered and then you start abusing him just because they differ from your own.

It's beginning to become clear why you haven't settled

stevek93

andyd12 wrote: »

Oh man, you are a rukker. Your expert knowledge of NL will figure that out

Dank je mijn vriend, maar je bent de rukker.

Flimsy_Boat

andyd12 wrote: »

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not here?!?...

No, it was a genuine compliment. I often read a blog by an expat living in Denmark called Sage and Simple, and it's interesting.

arccosh

interesting thread... always had a bit of an affinity to move to the Netherlands, I've been there about 10 times in the last 10 years... (I don't smoke weed btw, I think you always have to mention that when you say you've been in in the Netherlands so much :-D)

Currently in a position where I could possibly do it, but hard to judge what the post COVID world will be like, but that's everywhere....

My areas of work would take me to Den Haag, Schipol,or Eindhoven by the looks of it, always loved Haarlem, and love being near the sea so Den Haag or Schipol would be ideal, but not the cheapest...

I'm hearing so many negatives though which has me apprehensive (pretty much everyting mentioned in this thread), but my experience has always been great...

would love to hear what is involved to get in a position of "boots on the ground"....what do you need to do to register with local gov... how was house hunting ? what are you pros and cons ?

stevek93

arccosh wrote: »

interesting thread... always had a bit of an affinity to move to the Netherlands, I've been there about 10 times in the last 10 years... (I don't smoke weed btw, I think you always have to mention that when you say you've been in in the Netherlands so much :-D)

Currently in a position where I could possibly do it, but hard to judge what the post COVID world will be like, but that's everywhere....

My areas of work would take me to Den Haag, Schipol,or Eindhoven by the looks of it, always loved Haarlem, and love being near the sea so Den Haag or Schipol would be ideal, but not the cheapest...

I'm hearing so many negatives though which has me apprehensive (pretty much everyting mentioned in this thread), but my experience has always been great...

would love to hear what is involved to get in a position of "boots on the ground"....what do you need to do to register with local gov... how was house hunting ? what are you pros and cons ?

I have an email from the embassy with lots of info about moving over there that might help you.

drunk_monk

I lived in Holland for 6 years, first in Aalsmeer and then up the road to Uithoorn. I found the Dutch people to be for the most part very friendly and easy to get on with. There is a big difference in culture between the Dutch and Irish though. For the most part the Dutch have the mindset of study, work, buy a house.. rather than party. This is reflected in Uithoon which had a population of 25k when I was living there and only had 6 pubs. The health insurance system is very good, although you do pay a lot through your wages for it, the more you earn the more you pay. I broke my wrist when I was there and was in and out of A & E in under an hour. Space is a HUGE problem within the Randstad though, if it's a nice day then it is impossible to find an empty space to walk in. Saying that though it's nice being able to drive to either Germany or Belgium for breakfast on a Sunday morning. Public transport is second to none, very reliable and safe to use. Renting in Holland is very expensive, along with the rent all apartments come with very expensive maintenance costs. I found the language easy to learn as it's west Germanic based so is similar to English.

Overall I found Holland a nice place to live and I'm glad I experienced it but I would not live there permanently.

DM

arccosh

stevek93 wrote: »

I have an email from the embassy with lots of info about moving over there that might help you.

if you could pm it? that would be brilliant!

stevek93

arccosh wrote: »

if you could pm it? that would be brilliant!

Just sent it to you.

amadangomor

irelandrover wrote: »

I currently live in Eindhoven which I have found pretty easy to settle into. There are a lot of expats and dutch that move here for work that dont know a lot of people when they move which means the Dutch seem more open to new friendships. It makes it a lot harder to speak Dutch as English is the main languagebut easier to make friends.

I also lived in Hengelo and Arnhem and found it much tougher to settle. People seem a lot more closed off or willing to accept new friends. Especially in Hengelo people seemed to have the same friends since primary school. My wife is dutch and was surprised at the difference in the friendliness of the people in Eindhoven compared to the north.

I'm not sure what advice to give you as i found it very tough to settle in the north so completely recognize what you say. I was 3 years in Hengelo and 2 in Arnhem and eventually gave up. You have to speak Dutch there. But even if you do speak dutch people still have the same cliques anyway.

Have heard the same about the North from Nederlanders from the South that moved up there. They are maybe more like North Germans/Danish in their standoffishness. South Holland where I lived is probably somewhere in between.

One thing that surprised me is that they had the whole Catholic /Protestant divide thing there.

There were a couple of Catholic enclaves South of the Hague and even then (15 years ago) older people of a either religion would only frequent shops belonging to owners of their own religion.

On the language, I did make an effort, picked up vocab easily enough but my grammar was bad. If I had my time again I would have taken lessons. After two years I could understand a lot and could speak a bit. Not great but way ahead of a lot of the English speakers I knew there.

Have to mention some of the thoughtful things like when I was leaving they had a surprise party at work with lots of beers and Dubliners and Pogues music blasting out and a friend bought tickets to a dance gig for my last night. As someone said if you met a woman you would probably have stayed and he was probably right.

yer man!

I'm wondering OP how are you doing now in the Netherlands further into covid? I'm living near Den Haag for the past two years and initially saw myself living here for ever, even started looking at houses here recently to buy. In the past few weeks though, the draw of ireland is really intensifying and my image of life here permanently is diminishing. I really need a trip home!

andyd12

yer man! wrote: »

I'm wondering OP how are you doing now in the Netherlands further into covid? I'm living near Den Haag for the past two years and initially saw myself living here for ever, even started looking at houses here recently to buy. In the past few weeks though, the draw of ireland is really intensifying and my image of life here permanently is diminishing. I really need a trip home!

Hi, it's funny that you raise this topic at this moment. As next week, I will leave the NL with my Dutch gf.
I have still struggled to see myself settling and staying here. I have managed to become quite good at Dutch.
My opinion of the NL has not really changed an awful lot tbh, again covid has not helped this, but long term wise I think ireland has more to offer. But that of course depends on what somebody wants.
Buying a house here is beyond ridiculous. I work with guys who recently bought homes for 400k. They are first time buyers in there mid to late twenties, project engineer types earning 45k max. For me, that is an insane amount of money for a semi detached average house.

It's busy all the time here, no real freedom or wilderness. Cities are nice here but beyond that it is just boring, no landscape. That is something I long for.
People here are more direct and just small talk less than Irish people. That is something I do miss.
I too long to be back in Ireland. Perhaps the inability to travel home easily has made me long to go home.

I don't like to belittle Holland or its people but overall I just prefer ireland and Irish people. I have met some really nice Dutch people and have good memories of my time here. I love cycling to work, work here was good, nice holidays etc.
I just prefer ireland

yer man!

andyd12 wrote: »

Hi, it's funny that you raise this topic at this moment. As next week, I will leave the NL with my Dutch gf.
I have still struggled to see myself settling and staying here. I have managed to become quite good at Dutch.
My opinion of the NL has not really changed an awful lot tbh, again covid has not helped this, but long term wise I think ireland has more to offer. But that of course depends on what somebody wants.
Buying a house here is beyond ridiculous. I work with guys who recently bought homes for 400k. They are first time buyers in there mid to late twenties, project engineer types earning 45k max. For me, that is an insane amount of money for a semi detached average house.

It's busy all the time here, no real freedom or wilderness. Cities are nice here but beyond that it is just boring, no landscape. That is something I long for.
People here are more direct and just small talk less than Irish people. That is something I do miss.
I too long to be back in Ireland. Perhaps the inability to travel home easily has made me long to go home.

I don't like to belittle Holland or its people but overall I just prefer ireland and Irish people. I have met some really nice Dutch people and have good memories of my time here. I love cycling to work, work here was good, nice holidays etc.
I just prefer ireland

Fair play to ye, I wish you the best of luck back in Ireland!

I agree with you in everything you say. Saw terraced houses (150m2) in a new housing estate near where I live, not in a city or even a town selling for 800k and no driveway. I mean lovely houses but jaysus.

andyd12

yer man! wrote: »

Fair play to ye, I wish you the best of luck back in Ireland!

I agree with you in everything you say. Saw terraced houses (150m2) in a new housing estate near where I live, not in a city or even a town selling for 800k and no driveway. I mean lovely houses but jaysus.

Thanks mate and all the best to you also whatever you decide!

Ye total crazy stuff.
Another person I know has recently put a terraced house in Baarn on the market for 490k and will undoubtedly go for well above 500k.

Just glad I have the option to go back to Ireland.

I have received the comment from many Dutch people: '' Why would I come live in NL over Ireland? '' and everytime I hear it I think, what am I doing here

Granadino

And here was me thinking Holland would have it all in terms of job opps, housing opps etc, but obviously not based on previous post!
Is there anywhere in Europe where the govt is not corrupt, bills are not ripping people off, housing is affordable and jobs are plentiful

yer man!

Granadino wrote: »

And here was me thinking Holland would have it all in terms of job opps, housing opps etc, but obviously not based on previous post!
Is there anywhere in Europe where the govt is not corrupt, bills are not ripping people off, housing is affordable and jobs are plentiful

I think you have described a Utopia. But in all seriousness, NL is still a great place, rent is still more than manageable in most of the country, jobs are fairly plentiful (Obviously you're limited here if you only have English, but there are still a lot of jobs there for certain sectors), bills are reasonably manageable and the government don't seem to be blatantly corrupt at least but maybe a little bit out of touch.

They do a lot of fundamental things right here, I can say that. Ireland still does pretty good across the board too, it has just massively dropped the ball on housing.

murphaph

I think Ireland is significantly less corrupt than it was 20 years ago. Corruption is everywhere. Here in Germany we recently had the case of ppe contracts going to CDU politicians. I think people just tend to pick up on it less when they are foreigners in a country because they tend to listen less to news and current affairs in the host country.