What happens next in the following scenario?

FutureTeashock

Anto from Coolock purchases a 2002 Opel Corsa for €200 off Donedeal.

He opts to not tax, insure or NCT the car, and has no driving licence.

After three years of discrete use, Anto gets busted at a Garda checkpoint.

What happens to Anto next in a legal context?

Tell me how

From Citizens Information

Failing to display insurance or tax
The Gardaí have the power to impound your vehicle if you drive without tax or insurance.

Insurance
You must have motor insurance to drive a car in your own name or as a named driver on someone else's policy. If a Garda asks for your insurance certificate, you must provide it within 7 days. Offences for driving without insurance are prosecuted in court. Failure to display an insurance disk carries a fixed charge of €60 (rising to €90 after 28 days).

If you drive while uninsured, you could be fined up to €5000 and get 5 penalty points. You could also go to prison for up to 6 months. The judge may decide to disqualify you from driving instead of giving you penalty points. You can read more in our document on ‘Motor insurance’.

Get the suit ready. (Tracksuit maybe)

FutureTeashock

Tell me how wrote: »

From Citizens Information



Get the suit ready. (Tracksuit maybe)

I see no reference to any law in that article, in fact, I cannot find a law which states the requirement for Anto to tax, insure, NCT or drive with a licence.

It's baffling.

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I see no reference to any law in that article, in fact, I cannot find a law which states the requirement for Anto to tax, insure, NCT or drive with a licence.

It's baffling.

are you doubting that there is such a requirement?

FutureTeashock

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you doubting that there is such a requirement?

I'm trying to pinpoint the requirement in law, and I'm not being successful in doing so.

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I'm trying to pinpoint the requirement in law, and I'm not being successful in doing so.

well no, you asked what happens next. which would be the car being impounded, a day in court that will result in a large fine plus possible driving ban.

FutureTeashock

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well no, you asked what happens next. which would be the car being impounded, a day in court that will result in a large fine plus possible driving ban.

And under what law would the Gardai have the right to do that?

Would Anto be arrested for said offence, and under what law?

nullzero

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Anto from Coolock purchases a 2002 Opel Corsa for €200 off Donedeal.

He opts to not tax, insure or NCT the car, and has no driving licence.

After three years of discrete use, Anto gets busted at a Garda checkpoint.

What happens to Anto next in a legal context?

Driving uninsured will typically result in the vehicle being removed from Anto's possession.
The keys to the vehicle would be taken by the attending Garda and then the vehicle would be removed by a recovery vehicle.
Anto's details would be collected by the attending Garda so a summons could be issued. Anto would generally be allowed to leave the scene and not be taken into custody unless the had been driving dangerously or under the influence of drink or drugs, or indeed if he took exception to the Garda stopping him and became abusive or violent.

Anto would then be informed that he had breached the Road Traffic Act 1961
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/enacted/en/html
Anto would appear before the district Court and his fate would be determined by the presiding judge.

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

And under what law would the Gardai have the right to do that?

Would Anto be arrested for said offence, and under what law?

the NCT, insurance and tax are enshrined in different legislation, all of which has been amended over the years. good luck tracking down a consolidated copy of the legislation online. its a mess.

Cakes and Ale

Here's the insurance.
You can probably find the rest yourself...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/56/enacted/en/html#sec56

FutureTeashock

nullzero wrote: »

Driving uninsured will typically result in the vehicle being removed from Anto's possession.
The keys to the vehicle would be taken by the attending Garda and then the vehicle would be removed by a recovery vehicle.
Anto's details would be collected by the attending Garda so a summons could be issued. Anto would generally be allowed to leave the scene and not be taken into custody unless the had been driving dangerously or under the influence of drink or drugs, or indeed if he took exception to the Garda stopping him and became abusive or violent.

Anto would then be informed that he had breached the Road Traffic Act 1961
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/enacted/en/html
Anto would appear before the district Court and his fate would be determined by the preside judge.

Can you please confirm, is the Road Traffic "Act" 1961 a law?

Were Anto to decline his invitation to attend court, what would happen to him?

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Can you please confirm, is the Road Traffic "Act" 1961 a law?

Were Anto to decline his invitation to attend court, what would happen to him?

an Act is a law, yes. if anto didnt turn up then a bench warrant would be issued for his arrest.

FutureTeashock

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

an Act is a law, yes. if anto didnt turn up then a bench warrant would be issued for his arrest.

That's funny, because if an act is a law, why isn't it called a law?

I thought words mattered greatly in legal matters? That seems strange.

ohnonotgmail

Cakes and Ale wrote: »

Here's the insurance.
You can probably find the rest yourself...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/56/enacted/en/html#sec56

and herein lies the problem with road traffic legislation. You have linked to the primary legislation. there have been 18 or 19 amendments to just this one section since it was enacted.

jimmycrackcorm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

That's funny, because if an act is a law, why isn't it called a law?

I thought words mattered greatly in legal matters? That seems strange.

Wait till you hear about S.I.s.

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

That's funny, because if an act is a law, why isn't it called a law?

I thought words mattered greatly in legal matters? That seems strange.

have a read of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(law)

nullzero

FutureTeashock wrote: »

That's funny, because if an act is a law, why isn't it called a law?

I thought words mattered greatly in legal matters? That seems strange.

The penalties for driving uninsured and without a licence are enforced strictly and with good reason.

In this scenario Anto would likely be fined for driving uninsured and would likely receive a ban for operating a vehicle without a licence and he would deserve it.

One popular scam is to purchase insurance, receive the disc and then cancel the direct debit after the first month keeping the "valid to the untrained eye" disc on display on the windscreen.
The amount of gougers doing this and thinking they are the smartest criminals in Ireland would be funny if it weren't so serious.

FutureTeashock

nullzero wrote: »

The penalties for driving uninsured and without a licence are enforced strictly and with good reason.

In this scenario Anto would likely be fined for driving uninsured and would likely receive a ban for operating a vehicle without a licence and he would deserve it.

One popular scam is to purchase insurance, receive the disc and then cancel the direct debit after the first month keeping the "valid to the untrained eye" disc on display on the windscreen.
The amount of gougers doing this and thinking they are the smartest criminals in Ireland would be funny if it weren't so serious.

The fact is it's clearly not a crime, otherwise Anto would be arrested on the spot.

The fact that it's not a crime opens up a massive can of worms in my opinion.

In order to seize Anto's Corsa, does Anto need to consent to this in some way?

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The fact is it's clearly not a crime, otherwise Anto would be arrested on the spot.

The fact that it's not a crime opens up a massive can of worms in my opinion.

i honestly cannot tell if you are being serious with these questions but for the moment i will assume you are.

anto would not be arrested because no arrest is required. it would be dealt with by summons.

FutureTeashock wrote: »

In order to seize Anto's Corsa, does Anto need to consent to this in some way?

absolutely no consent is required from anto to impound the vehicle.

L1011

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The fact is it's clearly not a crime, otherwise Anto would be arrested on the spot.

The fact that it's not a crime opens up a massive can of worms in my opinion.

In order to seize Anto's Corsa, does Anto need to consent to this in some way?

You don't understand what a crime is. You don't understand what a law is

You don't understand enough to even ask this question, let alone try make guesswork as to anything else.

Clegg

This thread is a bit Freeman of the Landish.

ohnonotgmail

Clegg wrote: »

This thread is a bit Freeman if the Landish.

there is certainly a bang of that off it alright.

nullzero

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The fact is it's clearly not a crime, otherwise Anto would be arrested on the spot.

The fact that it's not a crime opens up a massive can of worms in my opinion.

In order to seize Anto's Corsa, does Anto need to consent to this in some way?

It is a crime, there is no can of worms to open and Anto's Corsa being taken will happen without his consent.

Boo hoo Anto, you silly man.

angel eyes 2012

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The fact is it's clearly not a crime, otherwise Anto would be arrested on the spot.

The fact that it's not a crime opens up a massive can of worms in my opinion.

In order to seize Anto's Corsa, does Anto need to consent to this in some way?

Is that you Barry Cowen

padser

Clegg wrote: »

This thread is a bit Freeman of the Landish.

More than a bit

FutureTeashock

L1011 wrote: »

You don't understand what a crime is. You don't understand what a law is

You don't understand enough to even ask this question, let alone try make guesswork as to anything else.

I understand that an act isn't a law. That is axiomatic, but you can't seem to grasp it.:o

L1011

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I understand that an act isn't a law. That is axiomatic, but you can't seem to grasp it.:o

You "understand" wrong, then.

Clegg

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Wait till you hear about S.I.s.

I've studied law for three years now and I'm still not entirely sure I understand statutory instruments -_-

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

I understand that an act isn't a law. That is axiomatic, but you can't seem to grasp it.:o

acts of parliament ARE the law.

Cakes and Ale

Clegg wrote: »

This thread is a bit Freeman if the Landish.

I was just waiting for something about not 'driving' but travelling.

Maybe this is the type of law guide needed!

https://dialogueireland.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/freemanguide.pdf

nullzero

Maybe to OP (Sorry "Anto") should just get a leap card and be done with it.

Signore Fancy Pants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

there is certainly a bang of that off it alright.

Poor Anto is fcuked.

The sooner he realises it the better.

L1011

Cakes and Ale wrote: »

I was just waiting for something about not 'driving' but travelling.

Maybe this is the type of law guide needed!

https://dialogueireland.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/freemanguide.pdf

My eyes! The font decisions there should be a crime.

ohnonotgmail

nullzero wrote: »

Maybe to OP should just get a leap card and be done with it.

or a pushbike.

L1011

If Anto tries to pull any of this "that's an Act not a law" to the guard that pulled him, he will be arrested after all.

Signore Fancy Pants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

or a pushbike.

Or a functioning brain so he can stop being an a$$hole.

nullzero

L1011 wrote: »

If Anto tries to pull any of this "that's an Act not a law" to the guard that pulled him, he will be arrested after all.

It'd be more entertaining if he tried to hold up a mornings proceedings in the district court with it instead.

ohnonotgmail

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Or a functioning brain so he can stop being an a$$hole.

let's not raise our expectations too much.

FutureTeashock

nullzero wrote: »

It'd be more entertaining if he tried to hold up a mornings proceedings in the district court with it instead.

Why would Anto attend the Kangaroo District Court?

I highly doubt Anto would accept a summons (invitation) to such a place.

L1011

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Why would Anto attend the Kangaroo District Court?

I highly doubt Anto would accept a summons (invitation) to such a place.

Anto will get a bench warrant and be arrested and brought before, otherwise.

I'd advise you to stop reading whatever Freeman blog (written in crayon, snot, and Comic Sans) you've been reading and back away from the computer.

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Why would Anto attend the Kangaroo District Court?

I highly doubt Anto would accept a summons (invitation) to such a place.

and we finally get to the truth.

artanevilla

Anto can only be arrested if the Garda is wearing a hat.

FutureTeashock

L1011 wrote: »

Anto will get a bench warrant and be arrested and brought before, otherwise.

I'd advise you to stop reading whatever Freeman blog (written in crayon, snot, and Comic Sans) you've been reading and back away from the computer.

If Anto were arrested under such circumstances, he would have the right to make a Habeas Corpus application to the high court.

It would get highly interesting from that point on.

L1011

FutureTeashock wrote: »

If Anto were arrested under such circumstances, he would have the right to make a Habeas Corpus application to the high court.

It would get highly interesting from that point on.

It would, because it would be thrown out and he'd have a massive legal bill. And would still have to face the DC charge.

Whatever scutter you've read and believed to be true, isn't.

nullzero

FutureTeashock wrote: »

If Anto were arrested under such circumstances, he would have the right to make a Habeas Corpus application to the high court.

It would get highly interesting from that point on.

"Anto, we're sorry here's the keys to your Corsa back, don't bother with a driving license or insurance".

FutureTeashock

nullzero wrote: »

"Anto, we're sorry here's the keys to your Corsa back, don't bother with a driving license or insurance".

If you believe that you are being detained or held unlawfully, you can make an application to the High Court. If the person or institution detaining you cannot justify your detention or prove that it is lawful, the High Court may order that you be released. This is called a habeas corpus order.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

nullzero

FutureTeashock wrote: »

If you believe that you are being detained or held unlawfully, you can make an application to the High Court. If the person or institution detaining you cannot justify your detention or prove that it is lawful, the High Court may order that you be released. This is called a habeas corpus order.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

Let us know how it turns out.

GerardKeating

FutureTeashock wrote: »

the High Court may order that you be released.

May Order,

and then again, they might not.

Grolschevik

Yay, we're back home in Derry! (some of the longer-resident denizens might get that...)

Can we keep this one? He looks well fed.

ohnonotgmail

FutureTeashock wrote: »

If you believe that you are being detained or held unlawfully, you can make an application to the High Court. If the person or institution detaining you cannot justify your detention or prove that it is lawful, the High Court may order that you be released. This is called a habeas corpus order.


https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

being arrested on foot of a bench warrant for ignoring a summons is as lawful as it gets.

looksee

You can tell an important point is being made when it is written in ginormous black letters. Makes it more authoritative. It doesn't make it any more accurate or reasonable or legal.