Shannon-Dublin: when was the last flight and would it ever be viable again.

Just a thought this morning. I can say I have flown Dublin to Shannon, back in the 90s as a kid after coming from Atlanta on Delta back in the days of the stopover. I wonder when the last passenger flight was, and would it ever become a viable route again? (I can think of two chances of that happening-slim and none!)

Nijmegen

As the old rev Ian Paisley might have said, Never, Never, Never. It would take 2hrs 25 minutes to drive from Dublin Airport to Shannon Airport. Once you got to Shannon presumably you're going somewhere else. If it's Limerick City you'd have been even better off driving, it's 10 minutes less than the drive to Shannon. If you're using Shannon as your gateway to a Wild Atlantic Way vacation like so many HNW American visitors to the airport, well, you're gonna rent a car once you land.

I live pretty close to the airport so wouldn't add a lot of time to my airport journey down to Shannon, but I'd be arriving an hour before my flight, risking delays in the morning rush (remember that?!) at EIDW or some gombeen not being on time for the flight, then a quick up and down and then out the gate and off to stand in line to rent my car. Doesn't seem hugely viable does it?

XsApollo

I flew on Aer Lingus A330 , Shannon to Dub once.
11-12 years ago at this stage I’d say.

Ger Roe

I went the other way in the late 80's - Dublin to Shannon on a 747 that had landed in Dublin from New York. You could buy a ticket for a very few quid to hop down on a filthy almost empty plane, with just you and the few people that were actually going on to Shannon, on board. The plane was cleaned and prepared for turnaround at Shannon, so it was in a fair state when the bulk of the passengers got off at Dublin.

On my occasion, we took a group of cub scouts down for the about 20 min trip and then spent the rest of the day getting back up to Dublin by rail. It was a great experience to fly in an almost empty Jumbo and one that will never happen again.

Acosta

Ger Roe wrote: »

I went the other way in the late 80's - Dublin to Shannon on a 747 that had landed in Dublin from New York. You could buy a ticket for a very few quid to hop down on a filthy almost empty plane, with just you and the few people that were actually going on to Shannon, on board. The plane was cleaned and prepared for turnaround at Shannon, so it was in a fair state when the bulk of the passengers got off at Dublin.

On my occasion, we took a group of cub scouts down for the about 20 min trip and then spent the rest of the day getting back up to Dublin by rail. It was a great experience to fly in an almost empty Jumbo and one that will never happen again.

Very cool. I would loved a spin on that. One of my early memories is the the day the first jumbo landed at Cork.

I went to Belfast from Shannon in 98 on the MD11. About 5 other people on the plane.

John_Mc

Got to fly in the jumpseat in the A330 for the entire fligt from Shannon to Dublin before the onward flight to Chicago. It was amazing and something I will always remember!

Clareman

The Clare team of the 90s used to travel by plane the morning of the match, lot of supporters used to travel as well, the removal of the stop-over got rid of it as an option I'd imagine as there wouldn't be enough business for a flight on it's own as the quality of road between Shannon and Dublin means it's probably faster to drive it now than it would be to fly when you take security into account.

Inquitus

Clareman wrote: »

The Clare team of the 90s used to travel by plane the morning of the match, lot of supporters used to travel as well, the removal of the stop-over got rid of it as an option I'd imagine as there wouldn't be enough business for a flight on it's own as the quality of road between Shannon and Dublin means it's probably faster to drive it now than it would be to fly when you take security into account.

Aye with the increase in Airport security and the improvement of our motorways, we reached a point where driving is quicker, cheaper and less hassle than flying, so I doubt we will ever see this flown again!

I did it once as part of a Dublin Boston trip in the early 2000's DUB-SHN-BOS. It was phased out soon after.

TrueDub

Flew it several times in the late 80s and early 90s, both as part of USA trips and standalone (did some work for a tour company in SHN in the early 90s).

Most memorable time I did it was the evening of the day Ireland beat Romania in 1990. I'd landed into Shannon in an Air France 737 - travelling in the jump-seat as the plane was full (those were the days). We spent the whole flight chatting about football and when we got into radio range the pilots briefly tuned the radio to RTE1, where we got the commentary for a few mins.

Landed just as the final whistle blew, grabbed my bags and legged it to the downstairs bar, to catch extra-time and the penalties. Amazing couple of hours there, then checked back in for the Aer Lingus flight to DUB, and discovered a huge party taking place in the bar in the DutyFree area. Don't remember much about the flight back up!

Chris_5339762

I'd say Shannon to Dublin has no chance TBH, its just too close to Dublin. Cork to Dublin is borderline... there was talk of feeder flights from Cork to Dublin just before Covid, so you never know maybe in future.

Cheaper Feeder Flights from the regionals into Dublins route network would be a win-win I'd have thought. Germany does it to a huge extent, even Nuremberg - Munich which is about 160km.

donkey balls

Ger Roe wrote: »

I went the other way in the late 80's - Dublin to Shannon on a 747 that had landed in Dublin from New York. You could buy a ticket for a very few quid to hop down on a filthy almost empty plane, with just you and the few people that were actually going on to Shannon, on board. The plane was cleaned and prepared for turnaround at Shannon, so it was in a fair state when the bulk of the passengers got off at Dublin.

On my occasion, we took a group of cub scouts down for the about 20 min trip and then spent the rest of the day getting back up to Dublin by rail. It was a great experience to fly in an almost empty Jumbo and one that will never happen again.

I was actually a cub scout and did that trip in the 80s , Then around the early 90s when I was a cub leader we got a tour of Dublin Airport and I'm almost certain hanger 6 was there and a QF 747 was in for MX.

Nijmegen

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I'd say Shannon to Dublin has no chance TBH, its just too close to Dublin. Cork to Dublin is borderline... there was talk of feeder flights from Cork to Dublin just before Covid, so you never know maybe in future.

Cheaper Feeder Flights from the regionals into Dublins route network would be a win-win I'd have thought. Germany does it to a huge extent, even Nuremberg - Munich which is about 160km.

In larger countries a lot of those routes are sustained by corporate business. (a) Corporates will weigh network in their tenders for awarding multi-year travel contracts and (b) they then fly people up the front all the way, from Nuremberg to Munich and on to Shanghai or Dallas or wherever else you're going as part of their massive globe hopping network. If the load from Nuremberg to Munich isn't great, they make their money packing the A380 out of Munich and they're incremental bums of the seat there. Ireland just doesn't have the sort of corporate footprint nor their airlines actually the sort of network to sustain that sort of thing.

Two hopes....none and Bob.

Not sure why people are still obsessed with Shannon. Shannon’s figures during the peak in aviation (up till March) were dire.

The reasons for the non stopover in Shannon are well documented. Nothing has changed and the pandemic won’t change that either.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Two hopes....none and Bob.

Not sure why people are still obsessed with Shannon. Shannon’s figures during the peak in aviation (up till March) were dire.

The reasons for the non stopover in Shannon are well documented. Nothing has changed and the pandemic won’t change that either.

Well, considering that it’s our longest runway, gives serious support to our leasing & maintenance sectors and has a large manufacturing area right beside it, it has its place in the mix.

What I don’t get is why you want to sh*t on it, but hey, that’s the internet way, isn’t it?

BZ

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, considering that it’s our longest runway, gives serious support to our leasing & maintenance sectors and has a large manufacturing area right beside it, it has its place in the mix.

What I don’t get is why you want to sh*t on it, but hey, that’s the internet way, isn’t it?

Always like to throw a kick into SNN whenever possible. There's a few others like this and it gets a bit tiring to say the least. Best to ignore.

Ger Roe

But what about the space launch connection? It was great to hear the recent SpaceX crew tell launch control that they were over Shannon, as they headed to the ISS.

I have often heard that Shannon was one of the emergency landing sites listed for returning space shuttles and is still the last point of land reference for modern launches. Part of the launch check procedure for all NASA manned launches is to check at Shannon for weather conditions, should an emergency condition arise over the Atlantic. If there was a need, the Coast Guard helicopter at Shannon would be involved in any rescue attempt. In 2013 NASA officials met with the Coast Guard authorities at Shannon, to discuss the planned resumption of American manned launches and the possibility of an increased role for the Shannon airport facility.

Maybe Shannon could be a future European space port base? I wonder how the duty free situation would work out there...

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

Shannon-Dublin: when was the last flight and would it ever be viable again.

Was it ever viable? (as oppose to compulsory)

Jack1985

Graham wrote: »

Was it ever viable? (as oppose to compulsory)

Nail on the ______

Aer Arann tried it 06/07, ran after a winter period - Ryanair tried it 07/08 (not sure why) didn't make a dime and ditched it.

EI ran it as a compulsory requirment up to 2009, pre 2000 they had additional services by Aer Lingus Commuter but profit mattered little then.

dzsfah2xoynme9

I flew from Shannon to Dublin on an Aer Lingus 747 back in 93. Then a different flight into Manchester. In the 747 I was brought up to see the cockpit. As a 6 year old I was absolutely amazed. I also remember the Co pilot giving me a minstrel sweet. On the way back down, Liam Neeson was in the 1st class spot up stairs. He gave me a wave, not that I knew who he was at the time until the stewardess told my mother.

The J Stands for Jay

"There's a direct flight from LA to Dublin, with one stop"
"Where does it stop? Chicago, JFK?"
"Shannon"
"..."

spurious

I used to bring the kids from school on a trip where we would fly down to Shannon, go to Bunratty Castle and the Folk Park and come back to Dublin on the train.

The kids used to make a fortune from Americans getting rid of leftover Irish money.

banie01

The motorway links between Dublin and Limerick/Galway are what really makes this untenable IMO.

Prior to the Motorway, driving Dub-Lim or Dub-Gal was at best a far longer journey timewise than it is now.
No towns bypassed, traffic, farm machinery on the roads and let's be honest...
Crap roads.

Now both cities are @2hrs from Dub by road on safe and high quality roads.

The flight, as the crow flies should be relatively quick with ascent and descent likely the longest portions.
Say 30minutes? 1hr in the airport pre-flight?30mins to clear the airport?
Then travel to/from the airport either side?

There is zero benefit to the route timewise anymore, even less in terms of cost.

CrabRevolution

Ger Roe wrote: »

But what about the space launch connection? It was great to hear the recent SpaceX crew tell launch control that they were over Shannon, as they headed to the ISS.

I have often heard that Shannon was one of the emergency landing sites listed for returning space shuttles and is still the last point of land reference for modern launches. Part of the launch check procedure for all NASA manned launches is to check at Shannon for weather conditions, should an emergency condition arise over the Atlantic. If there was a need, the Coast Guard helicopter at Shannon would be involved in any rescue attempt. In 2013 NASA officials met with the Coast Guard authorities at Shannon, to discuss the planned resumption of American manned launches and the possibility of an increased role for the Shannon airport facility.

Maybe Shannon could be a future European space port base? I wonder how the duty free situation would work out there...

Even ignoring the fact it has nothing going for it as a spaceport more than any other airport, geography alone rules it out. Shannon is too far north (for most space launches, the closer to the equator the better). Then considering the risk of some/all of the rocket hitting the ground in the event of something going wrong, space launches tend to take place over unpopulated areas. This means launching either the middle of nowhere (Russia/Kazakhstan, China) or launching over the sea to the east (USA, ESA, Japan).

The last place anyone puts launch sites is on their western coast, unless it's needed to achieve a specific orbit (e.g. polar orbit, spy satellite). Certainly no manned craft I know of has ever been launched over a populated area.

Clareman

Ger Roe wrote: »

But what about the space launch connection? It was great to hear the recent SpaceX crew tell launch control that they were over Shannon, as they headed to the ISS.

I have often heard that Shannon was one of the emergency landing sites listed for returning space shuttles and is still the last point of land reference for modern launches. Part of the launch check procedure for all NASA manned launches is to check at Shannon for weather conditions, should an emergency condition arise over the Atlantic. If there was a need, the Coast Guard helicopter at Shannon would be involved in any rescue attempt. In 2013 NASA officials met with the Coast Guard authorities at Shannon, to discuss the planned resumption of American manned launches and the possibility of an increased role for the Shannon airport facility.

Maybe Shannon could be a future European space port base? I wonder how the duty free situation would work out there...

I work in IT and worked in a company in Shannon for a long time, having the area shut down because of a shuttle landing was actually quite high on our risk registrar, I think it was to do with the fact that we were the closest runway to eastern sea-board of America so if the shuttle overshot we were the closest, because of lot more airports opening up in Africa they are now the next spot.

Other risks that had to be taken into account was a visit by an American president, Bush came at 1 stage and the whole place was placed in lockdown and only essential personnel were allowed into the town.

RadioRetro

While watching the manned SpaceX launch recently on the company's website the commentator did note that Shannon was the designated landing spot if something went awry in the early part of the journey to the ISS.

Cookiemunster

RadioRetro wrote: »

While watching the manned SpaceX launch recently on the company's website the commentator did note that Shannon was the designated landing spot if something went awry in the early part of the journey to the ISS.

The Shannon control zone off the West coast was a designated area, not the airport. The Dragon is a capsule like the old Apollo or the Soyuz modules and is designed to slash down in water using parachutes. It can't land on a runway like the shuttle did.

RadioRetro

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Shannon control zone off the West coast was a designated area, not the airport. The Dragon is a capsule like the old Apollo or the Soyuz modules and is designed to slash down in water using parachutes. It can't land on a runway like the shuttle did.

You're perfectly correct, my unreliable memory letting me down. The airport itself was mentioned, probably as any search centre of ops although all that's available is Rescue 115.

Ger Roe

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Even ignoring the fact it has nothing going for it as a spaceport more than any other airport, geography alone rules it out. Shannon is too far north (for most space launches, the closer to the equator the better). Then considering the risk of some/all of the rocket hitting the ground in the event of something going wrong, space launches tend to take place over unpopulated areas. This means launching either the middle of nowhere (Russia/Kazakhstan, China) or launching over the sea to the east (USA, ESA, Japan).

The last place anyone puts launch sites is on their western coast, unless it's needed to achieve a specific orbit (e.g. polar orbit, spy satellite). Certainly no manned craft I know of has ever been launched over a populated area.

I wasn't being totally serious with the suggestion, but who knows in the future? Maybe we won't always be sending up giant powder kegs propelled by fossil fuels. The Virgin Galactic proposal where the spacecraft separates from a high altitude aircraft, might be less risky.

I reckon if Aer Rianta and the IDA got together on the idea they would at least milk it for all the publicity they could generate - actual possibility or not. Tie it in with some strategic secret tax breaks for the operators and we could be heading to the moon for our holliers from Shannon Spaceport, in no time.

It might be just as far fetched as when Foynes was first proposed as a transatlantic hub.

Tell me how

As part of a job application in 1997, I had to attend a location on Merrion Square in Dublin. I was back at home in Clare at about 3pm having flown up from shannon (on stopover flight) that morning, gotten bus in to Busarus, walked to appointment, and then did the reverse trip.

Would probably not have bettered my total journey time if I had a car as that was before the M18/M7 were constructed.

Was all possible due to father working in Shannon and availability of standby tickets and almost absent security by todays standards.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, considering that it’s our longest runway, gives serious support to our leasing & maintenance sectors and has a large manufacturing area right beside it, it has its place in the mix.

What I don’t get is why you want to sh*t on it, but hey, that’s the internet way, isn’t it?

Stating facts is sh*tting on it is it!?! Or is it just that you don’t like hearing the other side of the argument, the balance to your argument ?

As a counter point to your points, Dublin has 90% of the traffic in Ireland, has the most jobs at risk, has the most to lose here. But hasn’t asked for any money or received any supports at all. Yet apparently yesterday’s Dail proceedings had 15 mins spent on Bunratty and the Wild Irish way. Ireland has 140000 jobs relying on aviation in one way or another with the vast majority in and around Dublin but as usual the west shouts loudest for the support.

What about Cork, Kerry, Knock, Donegal and Waterford airports ? Are they not worthy ? Or is it just Shannon that matters.

It is a fact that during the largest boom ever in aviation history Shannon was suffering badly to survive. It was struggling to maintain a fire cover overnight to support its oft mentioned North Atlantic key diversion airport status.

For years Shannon and it’s supporters begged to be cut free of the “shackles” of the Dublin airport authority so that it could sell itself globally and get all the routes and airlines that Dublin was blocking it from getting.

Now we have an airport several years later that is struggling badly to wash its own face because the reality of the big bad world of independence in fact wasn’t the green green grass of over there.

We still have people suggesting that flights are shared out across Irish airport, probably the naivest comments possible. Some have suggested a reimposition of the “Shannon Stopover” rule, likewise naive. That would be like suggesting that Paris CDG flights stop off in Rennes before crossing the Atlantic or Shannon flights stop off in Kerry. Imagine Waterford asking Shannon for one of its daily Heathrow flights or to get a stopover for its Ryanair flights.

An airline exec was asked on twitter recently why they hadn’t more or any presence in Shannon, his response was to simply point out that airlines weren’t charities and that if local communities weren’t going to support routes then they weren’t going to fly there.

You can argue with me all you like, you can even ignore me too, you are more than welcome to but it won’t change facts. You can ignore facts all you want but it won’t change the reality that Shannon despite all the tilting of the pitch to favour it has found its level.

Shannon was once a player in aviation and for a very good reason. But times have moved on just like they have for Prestwick, St Johns, Bangor, Gander etc.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stating facts is sh*tting on it is it!?! Or is it just that you

Tl, dr.

When you select facts to sh*t on something, you’re sh*ting on it.

Bikerman2019

Once upon a time, EI had a flight from Dub Ewr Dub cancelled due to low loads. I arrived in EWR to find a four hour delay due to this and they chartered an aircraft from Canada to do it. Didnt tell me in advance. (Herself lived in NJ so I could have stayed at hers a bit longer.) However, it only went as far as Shannon, so off one, and onto an EI for the hop to Dublin.



Serious pain in the ass, and no duty free. I asked on the charter and they said they did not carry any. I asked on the flight from SNN to DUB and they didn't carry any as it was an internal flight. It was suggested perhaps I was asleep when the trolley came around :mad:

A319er

I recall Shannon executive aviation
I believe a Mr Coulson was behind it , he has Armagh Glass these days
Anyway
A Shannon based metroliner did two or three roundtrips a day

I think it failed due no demand of any sought ever for the route

The metroliner was probably too much capacity but offered a good level of comfort and reliability

theguzman

If the economy had continued pre-covid and congestion in Dublin had continued I was often thinking something like a Shanghai Maglev connecting Shannon and Dublin airports together with Shannon rebranded as Dublin West, a short twenty - 30 mins hop between Airports, it would have given Dublin complete weather proofing and the sort of project I'd throw in if we discovered some huge oil field off Kerry or whatever.

Noxegon

Maglev is insanely expensive to build — and the Chinese only run their line at full speed for some of the day because of the amount of power it uses.

I’d settle for a Shinkansen-type system connecting the major cities on this island. Not that it’ll ever happen, but Dublin to a Cork in an hour would be something.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Noxegon wrote: »

Maglev is insanely expensive to build — and the Chinese only run their line at full speed for some of the day because of the amount of power it uses.

I’d settle for a Shinkansen-type system connecting the major cities on this island. Not that it’ll ever happen, but Dublin to a Cork in an hour would be something.

How about the Chuo Shinkansen? :pac:

Irish Steve

In the long term, and this is not a new idea, Maglev or similar high speed rail on this island is too parochial.

Maglev through the UK to Europe, with the main place being served being the Shannon Estuary, as with the reduction in oil usage, flights from Europe will be from Shannon to the East Coast of the USA, somewhere in the Maine area, with similar rail services there, and a massive freight hub for ships coming into the same area, and then on to distribution in Europe via rail, as even the fuel used to get to places like Rotterdam will be unacceptable.

It will take a long time, and a lot of vision to make it happen, but it will mean a significant reduction in carbon footprint in comparison to the present situation.

Won't be popular with a lot of people in high places, as they will lose their direct access across the Atlantic, but for a long time to come, that will be the only viable option, unless a new low weight high power alternative to oil is found, as things like producing Bio Fuel have the disadvantage of meaning food production will be affected, so many countries will be forced to choose between food or travel.

L1011

In the days before aircraft were practical for transatlantic there was a plan for Blacksod Bay to capture all the liner traffic and have a high speed for then (90mph) link onwards to Dún Laoghaire and Rosslare so as to serve the UK and northwestern europe

donkey balls

Ger Roe wrote: »

I wasn't being totally serious with the suggestion, but who knows in the future? Maybe we won't always be sending up giant powder kegs propelled by fossil fuels. The Virgin Galactic proposal where the spacecraft separates from a high altitude aircraft, might be less risky.

I reckon if Aer Rianta and the IDA got together on the idea they would at least milk it for all the publicity they could generate - actual possibility or not. Tie it in with some strategic secret tax breaks for the operators and we could be heading to the moon for our holliers from Shannon Spaceport, in no time.

It might be just as far fetched as when Foynes was first proposed as a transatlantic hub.

Fossil fuel? The Shuttle uses a blend of Hydrogen and Liquid oxygen.

ButtersSuki

Dublin - Shannon - Boston and same return in Oct. 2007. Last time I had the Shannon stopover.

theguzman

I did JFK-DUB-SNN back in 2005, catching the subsequent DUB-SNN-Boston flight from Dublin as far as a I remember. My sister flew JFK-LHR-SNN the same day and we got into SNN together for our parents to pick us up. It was my first time ever in Dublin airport and only my second time ever travelling alone after the SNN-JFK outward leg.