How safe is the world with Putin Trump and Johnson in charge?

Frankx

I don't think it's safe now

Rodney Bathgate

It was safer when a warmonger like Obama had his finger on the button?

SEPT 23 1989

Safer than it's ever been

Frankx

Frankx wrote: »

I don't think it's safe now

When the much revered Obama was in charge, Libya and Syria had succesful uprisings (aided by Hillary) and this led to the growth of Isis and their many random attacks on the West from 15-17.

Your listening to too much Marxist garbage on the mainstream channels. Turn them off and any irrational worries disasppear

Pkiernan

Funny how the ultra hard left forget about China.

Guess its not what they're hearing from their Liberal Arts professors in 1st year in college.

Im also amazed how people think Brexit appeared out of sheer fresh air. Ireland are paying back 3 times the 5 billion funding we've received from the EU and yet we are able to give our junior minsters an undeserved pay rise .... What exactly are the benefits of this club again for ordinary citizens? It seems to me that unless your a politician feathering your own nest there is none.

The reason the EU are forming an army now is because they know there is growing unrest and they are on borrowed time. A trade bloc with other mainland europe countries is a great thing, but not this Frankenstein b@stard it has morphed into.

Actually I think it's safer. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have a libertarian like BJ in charge of war policy, it's not so bad to have tension between major powers which make them reluctant to venture into poorer regions (eg so as not to piss off Putin).

Barack Obama with Clinton as Secretary of State was an intervention-inclined regime in all the wrong ways. It has to be said that one of their most harmful cheerleaders was our own Samantha Power.

As bad as these leaders are domestically, including Trump, they don't have much interest in starting new wars. Its an unexpected trait of Trump in particular, I think he genuinely dislikes war.

Pherekydes

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

As bad as these leaders are domestically, including Trump, they don't have much interest in starting new wars. Its an unexpected trait of Trump in particular, I think he genuinely dislikes war.

Except with his own people.

Pherekydes

Pherekydes wrote: »

Except with his own people.

Not really his fault. There is people of all colours being killed all the time by police (and a good percentage deservedly so when the facts are exposed) but strangely, its only a problem since 2016.....hmmm :rolleyes:

I wont doubt he is a divisive character and he can certainly be outrageous, but his presidency has seen record levels of employment created for both black and hispanic communities. He doesnt do 'racism' that well based on these stats

Since 2016, there has also been a sharp rise in marxist movements being irresponsibly pushed by the media. Now they have infiltrated universities and its beginning to filter down into schools. which for me are more of a concern for the globe. This filth is the equivalent of japanese knotweed overgrowing the planet.

Frankx

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

Cabaal

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

It was safer when a warmonger like Obama had his finger on the button?

Thats depends how you look at things,
USA is still in countries it shouldn't be under Trump, USA employ's ALOT of private contractors so if they say they only have say 400 troops in a country then you can multiply this by 3-4x for the amount of private soldiers for hire they have.

Right now they still have 14k troops in Afghanistan for example, so likely another 40-50,000 private contractors doing the work of the soldiers- https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/where-us-troops-are-in-the-middle-east-and-could-now-be-a-target-visualized/2020/01/04/1a6233ee-2f3c-11ea-9b60-817cc18cf173_story.html

Also, remind me again how many US citizens died from an avoidable death on US soil during Obama's watch? It's no where near 149,000 like under Trump.

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really his fault......

So the massive spread of covid19 due to Trump's mismanagement and conflicting messages isn't Trump's fault?
:rolleyes:

An Ri rua

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When the much revered Obama was in charge, Libya and Syria had succesful uprisings (aided by Hillary) and this led to the growth of Isis and their many random attacks on the West from 15-17.

Your listening to too much Marxist garbage on the mainstream channels. Turn them off and any irrational worries disasppear

Is there much garbage on the streets of Tipp Sir? And mainstream channels? God bless Ballyporeen.

Ré the OP, what about Xi Jinping? Has a hold on the world like Athens did, through trade. But has the military to back it up in Southeast Asia and through proxies worldwide if it goes there.

RWCNT

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When the much revered Obama was in charge, Libya and Syria had succesful uprisings (aided by Hillary) and this led to the growth of Isis and their many random attacks on the West from 15-17.

Your listening to too much Marxist garbage on the mainstream channels. Turn them off and any irrational worries disasppear

Agree with the first part but Jesus christ, is it a new rule around here that "Marxism" needs to be shoehorned into every conversation, preferably erroneously?

Frankx

Frankx wrote: »

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

I reckon they are regretting colonialism big time as it has led to mass unsustainable levels of immigration.

An Ri rua

Frankx wrote: »

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

Who do you reckon they will blow up first Frank? Scotland? Or maybe Kenya? Or South Africa for killing one of their Princes in the Victorian era. Hard to make their way North to the Sahára with their eyeballs burnt out from radiation.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Funny how the ultra hard left forget about China.

Guess its not what they're hearing from their Liberal Arts professors in 1st year in college.

Weird, I have an arts degree and was never taught anything about China being a utopia... I did a lot around sources and reading them critically. Could argue whatever I wanted as long as I used credible sources and arguments to back myself up. It sounds a bit like you've bought into a right wing soundbite.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Trump is rude, but actually quite a steady reliable guy to have in charge. Obviously his main area of expertise is generating wealth and jobs. I wouldn't say he's necessarily the best president at uniting the people of his country. Does he care? I doubt it... put money in enough of their pockets, and most of the social problems start to fade away... it's always been that way in the good old USofA!

Johnson is a harmless old toff... the most dangerous thing he's ever done, was attempt to comb his own hair! :P

Putin? He's a bit like a sleepy grizzly bear... Leave him alone, don't get in his way and we'll all be grand. Start pokin the fcuker, and things could get messy! (But who would be dumb enough to do that? Oh yeah, Obama and Clinton gave it shot didn't they?)

An Ri rua

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Weird, I have an arts degree and was never taught anything about China being a utopia... I did a lot around sources and reading them critically. Could argue whatever I wanted as long as I used credible sources and arguments to back myself up. It sounds a bit like you've bought into a right wing soundbite.

In the main, you're correct. But I worry about Confucius Institutes, one of which nestles in UCD. Be under no illusion, China is purposeful.

Irishman80

Frankx wrote: »

I don't think it's safe now

From a relative perspective, it's safer than the Bush/Obama/Blair/Cameron regimes - especially considering those countries. They were liable to land bombs down on countries based on media lies and hysteria.

I actually find it interesting that media hysteria led us to believe Trump was a war-monger and would start World War 3. In fact, his policy seems to be to remove American forces from foreign countries which must be welcomed.

It's also interesting to note that one of the only times the media suggested Trump was acting Presidential was when he was landing tomahawk missiles down on Syria - and Trump was a "Traitor" for trying to pull forces from Syria and Afghanistan.

ChelseaRentBoy

Trump hates conflict and war and would rather do deals than drop bombs but the radical liberal media don't want you to hear that.

ChelseaRentBoy

Irishman80 wrote: »

From a relative perspective, it's safer than the Bush/Obama/Blair/Cameron regimes - especially considering those countries. They were liable to land bombs down on countries based on media lies and hysteria.

I actually find it interesting that media hysteria led us to believe Trump was a war-monger and would start World War 3. In fact, his policy seems to be to remove American forces from foreign countries which must be welcomed.

It's also interesting to note that one of the only times the media suggested Trump was acting Presidential was when he was landing tomahawk missiles down on Syria - and Trump was a "Traitor" for trying to pull forces from Syria and Afghanistan.

They told us he'd start WW3 also.

RWCNT

RWCNT wrote: »

Agree with the first part but Jesus christ, is it a new rule around here that "Marxism" needs to be shoehorned into every conversation, preferably erroneously?

Alot of similar traits to original Marxist ideology. Basically using divisive tools to play sectors of society off each other. LGBT, BLM, 3rd wave feminist groups consist of many angry bitter people who are told that other people are more successful than them because they are taking what is rightfully theirs. :rolleyes:
Same premise really

Gruffalux

Cabaal wrote: »

So the massive spread of covid19 due to Trump's mismanagement and conflicting messages isn't Trump's fault?
:rolleyes:

Per million Sweden has suffered 40% more Covid deaths than America and I am pretty certain that without googling you cannot tell me the name of Sweden's Prime Minister.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Weird, I have an arts degree and was never taught anything about China being a utopia... I did a lot around sources and reading them critically. Could argue whatever I wanted as long as I used credible sources and arguments to back myself up. It sounds a bit like you've bought into a right wing soundbite.

When exactly did you complete your arts degree and what university?

Gruffalox

Gruffalox wrote: »

Per million Sweden has suffered 40% more Covid deaths than America and I am pretty certain that without googling you cannot tell me the name of Sweden's Prime Minister.

The Italian leaders werent criticised either, or the Spanish leaders (of which there is still areas being locked down). Even our own leaders who apparently ''played a blinder'' are answerable for the amount of deaths in nursing homes.

Carfacemandog

It's pretty gas seeing people clamour to claim Trump has been great for jobs and putting money in people's pockets while 30mn Americans are unemployed and getting next to no help from their federal government over it.

He did a good job not messing up the economy his predecessor built, but when faced with a proper challenge it fell apart like a house of cards.

Carfacemandog

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

They told us he'd start WW3 also.

I remember hearing that was what his opponent would do?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Alot of similar traits to original Marxist ideology. Basically using divisive tools to play sectors of society off each other. LGBT, BLM, 3rd wave feminist groups consist of many angry bitter people who are told that other people are more successful than them because they are taking what is rightfully theirs. :rolleyes:
Same premise really

You've got this backwards. The LGBT, BLM, contemporary feminists and other intersectional groups hate the Marxists, because Marxism rejects intersectionality and internal class-division.

Why don't you read some actual Marxist writing instead of the raving critiques it gets from people who think anything contemporary and left-wing is Marxist.

For sure, there are a lot of young people in the above movements who very vaguely describe themselves as socialists, but they generally have absolutely no knowledge of Marxism or its constituent forms. They tend react angrily when Marxists say that all of the proletariat essentially face the same struggle, because Marxism and intersectionality are fundamentally contradictory.

biko

Trump is the president that not only didn't start wars (well, yet) but also visited North Korea.
Boris hasn't started or joined new wars (yet).
Putin invaded Crimea, and not showing anything to say he is a peaceful president

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

So the massive spread of covid19 due to Trump's mismanagement and conflicting messages isn't Trump's fault?
:rolleyes:

What about Italy, and Spain? What about the clusters of deaths in nursing homes here? Who do you blame for those???? Trump again i suppose???

How do you propose the economy is going to rebuild after all this is over??? if we all continue to be locked down, there is only a certain amount of money that can keep the globe going. When the money runs out, what then?

Gruffalox

Gruffalox wrote: »

Per million Sweden has suffered 40% more Covid deaths than America and I am pretty certain that without googling you cannot tell me the name of Sweden's Prime Minister.

You'll also find that the likes of the US and Chile are showing the fastest growth in numbers. So the US is only around 450 deaths per million and Sweden is at 564 deaths per million. Which is not 40% more deaths per million. It's also not a great sign when you're saying they're currently performing better than a country that handled covid atrociously.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When exactly did you complete your arts degree and what university?

UCC in 2013, so I'm pretty confident you are buying into propaganda.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's pretty gas seeing people clamour to claim Trump has been great for jobs and putting money in people's pockets while 30mn Americans are unemployed and getting next to no help from their federal government over it.

He did a good job not messing up the economy his predecessor built, but when faced with a proper challenge it fell apart like a house of cards.

Along with many other economies. Ridiculous comment. the US owed tens of trillions to China long before Trump took office.

Cabaal

Gruffalox wrote: »

Per million Sweden has suffered 40% more Covid deaths than America and I am pretty certain that without googling you cannot tell me the name of Sweden's Prime Minister.

How's that whatabouttery going?

The topic is about Putin, Trump or Johnson.

Trump inactions have resulted in a whole lot of innocent people dieing on US soil who would otherwise not have died.

Irishman80

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

They told us he'd start WW3 also.

Yes, similar to how they told us Iraq had WMDs. Media organisations were essential to building support for that invasion.

Places like the NYT should have been shuttered and prosecuted after that. I still remember this pathetic response by the war criminals at the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/world/from-the-editors-the-times-and-iraq.html

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll also find that the likes of the US and Chile are showing the fastest growth in numbers. So the US is only around 450 deaths per million and Sweden is at 564 deaths per million. Which is not 40% more deaths per million. It's also not a great sign when you're saying they're currently performing better than a country that handled covid atrociously.


UCC in 2013, so I'm pretty confident you are buying into propaganda.

or maybe its a more recent thing than 2013. we now have quota's being proposed in many sectors which has been actually reported in the mainstream which werent around in 2013. The world has changed quite a bit since then.
Considering all the big tech companies and mainstream media companies are reporting the news as they see it as opposed to what happens, id be interested to know where you think im being indoctrinated? :rolleyes:

s1ippy

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058098478/1/#post114112264
I posted a thread about this the other day.

We're truly buggered.

Carfacemandog

Deleted User wrote: »

What about Italy, and Spain? What about the clusters of deaths in nursing homes here? Who do you blame for those???? Trump again i suppose???

How do you propose the economy is going to rebuild after all this is over??? if we all continue to be locked down, there is only a certain amount of money that can keep the globe going. When the money runs out, what then?

Places like Spain and Italy got hammered right at the start when none of us really knew much about the virus, and also have amongst the oldest average populations in the world.

Italy's numbers have dropped back down to about 200-300 a day, which would be about 1,200-1,600 scaling up to the US' population. Spain had theirs under control but look like they may have messed it up again, back to about 2,000 cases a day - scaling up to the US population would see them at about 14,000 cases a day.

The US has about one eighth the population ndensity of these two countries, had a huge advantage of preparation time outside of NY/NJ, but did very little to prepare and instead had a president calling it a "hoax" launched by his political opponents, and that it would "go away like a miracle" before calling on his supporters to stage armed uprisings to 'liberate' states who had imposed lockdowns that the federal government had refused to.

As a result the US is now getting 65,000-70,000 cases per day. It has a higher per capita rate than Italy, Spain and all but a tiny handful of countries in the world). Only 2 or 3 months ago you would quite frequently hear it pointed out that Ireland had a higher per capita case count than the US, as of today theirs is about 2.5 times higher than ours. A few days from now, New York won't even have the 3rd highest per capita case amount in the US, with Louisiana, Arizona and Florida on all just about caught up on that front.

Sweden's handling of this has also been dreadful, but that doesn't stop the fact that Trump has dealt with this worse than any head of state outside of possibly Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. Along with using secret police on his own citizens and gassing the likes of the clergy, its been a big reason why his approval ratings have nosedive over the last two or three months.

bnt

“The World” will be fine. It was here before people were, and it will be here after we’re gone.

Most of the people in the world will be fine too. That isn’t to say that there will never be wars. The idea of Trump as a warmonger is a “straw man”: he doesn’t have the Defense industry connections that Bush & co. had (think Dick Cheney & Halliburton). Instead, however, he could be seen as an enabler, allowing e.g. China to expand its influence in the South China Sea or Putin in the Baltic states.

In the latter case, not much has happened, a good thing, but we can’t rule that out. The #1 thing to understand about Putin is that his own self-preservation drives most of what he does. We don’t normally talk about him as an oligarch, because he is very good at hiding the billions he made during the Yeltsin years in particular, in the grab for post-Soviet resources. We don’t know exactly how much of Rosneft he owns or owned, for example. We don’t know how much he has squirrelled away in foreign bank accounts or property. He can’t just retire and enjoy his wealth, partly because of his personality, and partly because of the risk that the next people to take charge in Russia would come after him.

That’s why Putin won’t give up power: he enjoys it and he can use his power to direct attention everywhere but himself. Blame the gays, blame America, blame the other oligarchs, whatever it takes. Sowing and fostering divisions within and between countries is relatively easy and cost-effective compared to actual war. So I don’t think Putin will start anything with the USA or Europe.

Johnson? Behind the quirks and the occasional foot-in-mouth outbreak, he is not stupid. Unlike Trump, he actually listens to people and understands what they tell him. A Prime Minister does not have dictatorial powers and Johnson has no obviously Fascistic tendencies. I don’t like the guy or his party, but even I can see that some of the things people say are a stretch.

splinter65

Frankx wrote: »

I don't think it's safe now

What in particular about Johnson makes you frightened? What is that you think he will do that Corbyn or Starmer wouldn’t do? What exactly makes you feel “unsafe”?

hgfj

Trump may not have started WW3 (yet) but more Americans have died due to the spread of covid19 under his watch than all the American soldiers who died in WW1, Korea and Vietnam added up together. At least the ones who died in war died for a purpose (rightly or wrongly).

Gruffalux

Cabaal wrote: »

How's that whatabouttery going?

The topic is about Putin, Trump or Johnson.

Trump inactions have resulted in a whole lot of innocent people dieing on US soil who would otherwise not have died.

I am no fan of any politician. To be a politician to me signifies that at some point you lost your way, your creativity dried up or you felt the need to compensate for a small mickey.
Having said that I simply do not understand the spin that is put on Trump and Johnson, as if the cataclysm has befallen us. Neither are the worst by a long shot of recent incumbents in US or the UK.
I stayed up all night to listen to Obama be elected. I was -probably for the first time in my life - unreasonably ecstatic about something happening far away. Over the next 8 years I felt like all the scales fell from my eyes. All he was was someone who looked good in a suit and talked a smooth game. Trump is comically unattractive and talks utter scutter but he is no less safe in world peace terms than his most recent predecessors.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You've got this backwards. The LGBT, BLM, contemporary feminists and other intersectional groups hate the Marxists, because Marxism rejects intersectionality and internal class-division.

Why don't you read some actual Marxist writing instead of the raving critiques it gets from people who think anything contemporary and left-wing is Marxist.

For sure, there are a lot of young people in the above movements who very vaguely describe themselves as socialists, but they generally have absolutely no knowledge of Marxism or its constituent forms. They tend react angrily when Marxists say that all of the proletariat essentially face the same struggle, because Marxism and intersectionality are fundamentally contradictory.

All of these movements, their whole premise is based on the fact that they are supposedly oppressed by the whites/homophobes/men/<enter opposite group here> and that they have more than them because of their privelege. It may not be the exact writings of Karl Marx, but the principle of their 'struggle' is exactly the same.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All of these movements, their whole premise is based on the fact that they are supposedly oppressed by the whites/homophobes/men/<enter opposite group here> and that they have more than them because of their privelege. It may not be the exact writings of Karl Marx, but the principle of their 'struggle' is exactly the same.

And I can find the exact same claims being espoused back in the thirties too. Can you provide some of your sources for this conclusion?

Irishman80

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Sweden's handling of this has also been dreadful

Although not really related to the main thread, I think its way too early to make this observation.

If we get hit with a second or even a third wave of this, before a vaccine is available, Sweden's strategy might look very good.

Carfacemandog

Deleted User wrote: »

Along with many other economies. Ridiculous comment. the US owed tens of trillions to China long before Trump took office.

It's going to hit the US even worse than most due to how out of hand Trump's actions have made it, and due to the fact that the US had entered recession in February, before it even really hit. Mostmither couhtries sre also finding ways for their citizens to get by and make ends meet over this. In the US? They're mostly being left to fend for themselves, making people even more eager to reopen their economy which has been down in an horrific fashion and led to the explosion in cases they have experienced.

The funny thing is, had trump taken this virus seriously from the outset and done a good job on it, he would have been viewed favourably over it and a shoe in for reelection. Instead he's been spiralling at an incredible rate.

The US has got humiliated in their trade dealings with China under Trump by the way, hence him needing to give socialist hand outs to farmers whose livelihoods he otherwise ruined.

Frankx

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Trump is rude, but actually quite a steady reliable guy to have in charge. Obviously his main area of expertise is generating wealth and jobs

This is so worth it

splinter65

Frankx wrote: »

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

I’v heard that Johnson is going to blow Brussels sky high if they don’t give him the deal he wants and next on the list is the West Indies if they beat England in the cricket. BOOM!!!

bnt

Frankx wrote: »

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

And they have been that way since the 1960s, and they haven’t used them yet. If any PM was going to do that, it would have been Blair, followed by Brown.

Irishman80

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's going to hit the US even worse than most due to how out of hand Trump's actions have made it, and due to the fact that the US had entered recession in February, before it even really hit.

This statement is false. The US had not entered recession in February. The first month on month decline in US GDP was recorded at the end of March due to the shutdowns.

SEPT 23 1989

hgfj wrote: »

Trump may not have started WW3 (yet) but more Americans have died due to the spread of covid19 under his watch than all the American soldiers who died in WW1, Korea and Vietnam added up together. At least the ones who died in war died for a purpose (rightly or wrongly).

Yes because that's exactly the same as starting a war

Now what do you think Trump is big into construction do you not think by this stage he would have levelled a few countries and sent in his cement trucks

Those trucks are always rolling to avoid certain legal complications...

Am I right?