Everyone seems to be overtaking

extra-ordinary_

Dunno if this has been posted before but can anything realistically be done about the abysmal driving on our motorways (although I'm specifically talking about the M50 3-lane)? I'd say about 2% of non-commercial traffic ever drive in the driving lane - everyone and his cat are out in the two overtaking lanes. Traffic will be 'making progress' at 100 kmh when all of a sudden the seas will have to divide around some ass trundling along in the middle lane staring into space oblivious to all around them - cars overtaking them on either side. It's totally crazy the standard of driving. I realise you can't bring learners onto a motorway but how do other countries manage? Do the traffic police here really not give a sh*t? Surely many many many drivers could be done for 'without due care and attention' at any given minute of any given day if they only bothered to do anything about it and maybe in time this would eventually lead to better lane discipline?

Wheety

When I was driving in Canada there were signs constantly telling you to stay in the driving lane unless overtaking with a big arrow pointing at the driving lane. Either that worked or the training is just of a better standard.

frozenfrozen

turn up the radio and forget about it

extra-ordinary_

frozenfrozen wrote: »

turn up the radio and forget about it

Ahh...ya mean just zone out and forget where you are like all the other eejits?

thelad95

Regularly I can undertake up to ten cars by staying in the driving lane before reaching a slow moving lorry or car that I have to overtake.

So many peoples default seems to be: merge, dawdle in the middle lane for ages, oh crap it's my exit leap frog two lanes without checking a single mirror or indicating.

The new three lane M7 is the exact same, 120km, lots of idiots crawling in the middle lane at 80-100

vandriver

thelad95 wrote: »

Regularly I can undertake up to ten cars by staying in the driving lane before reaching a slow moving lorry or car that I have to overtake.

So many peoples default seems to be: merge, dawdle in the middle lane for ages, oh crap it's my exit leap frog two lanes without checking a single mirror or indicating.

The new three lane M7 is the exact same, 120km, lots of idiots crawling in the middle lane at 80-100

Are you putting yourself forward as a paragon of lane discipline?
Because I've got news for you.

McCrack

The new 3 Lane m7 can be a farce

So many just plod along in the middle lane leaving the left most lane unused which causes difficulties as well as the ones that hog the outer overtaking lane etc

And after all the torture people put up with whilst the third lane was being added

colm_mcm

McCrack wrote: »

The new 3 Lane m7 can be a farce

So many just plod along in the middle lane leaving the left most lane unused which causes difficulties as well as the ones that hog the outer overtaking lane etc

And after all the torture people put up with whilst the third lane was being added

If only we could have known this would happen!

thelad95

vandriver wrote: »

Are you putting yourself forward as a paragon of lane discipline?
Because I've got news for you.

I'm aware that undertaking is dangerous too but I maintain progress and don't speed, it's the gombeens in the middle lane who are utterly clueless to any cars around them.

colm_mcm

thelad95 wrote: »

I'm aware that undertaking is dangerous too but I maintain progress and don't speed, it's the gombeens in the middle lane who are utterly clueless to any cars around them.

It’s illegal as well as dangerous.

McCrack

Is it any more "dangerous" than passing on the right

Anyone changing lanes needs to look in their mirrors regardless whether they are changing to the left or right

antodeco

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s illegal as well as dangerous.

Technically it's it's not illegal if the traffic to your right is moving slowly. The definition of slowly is the issue.

Is someone doing 90 in the middle lane of a 120 motorway slow? I'd say so myself.

Ubbquittious

Ah F*ck the M50, stay away from that bloody thing and the rest of your worries will start to disappear as well

colm_mcm

antodeco wrote: »

Technically it's it's not illegal if the traffic to your right is moving slowly. The definition of slowly is the issue.

Is someone doing 90 in the middle lane of a 120 motorway slow? I'd say so myself.

Nope. A lot of people use this reference which refers to passing traffic that is stopped or nearly stopped on the inside
as opposed to not going quite as fast as you might like.

90km/h is not slow moving in that context.

I’m not sure if this is actually a grey area.

extra-ordinary_

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Ahh...ya mean just zone out and forget where you are like all the other eejits?

Exactly. It’s the most stress free option and it will never change.

GreeBo

antodeco wrote: »

Technically it's it's not illegal if the traffic to your right is moving slowly. The definition of slowly is the issue.

Is someone doing 90 in the middle lane of a 120 motorway slow? I'd say so myself.

You are confusing slower with slowly.

rock22

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s illegal as well as dangerous.

Is it illegal?
Cannot find that anywhere

Isambard

antodeco wrote: »

Technically it's it's not illegal if the traffic to your right is moving slowly. The definition of slowly is the issue.

Is someone doing 90 in the middle lane of a 120 motorway slow? I'd say so myself.

here we go...that's nonsense. Only applies to queued traffic. Unclear wording is to blame, but your own interpretation won't excuse you from a charge if the Gards bother themselves.

colm_mcm

rock22 wrote: »

Is it illegal?
Cannot find that anywhere

Article 10 Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/...zsi182y1997a10

10. (1) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.


(2) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, unless the roadway ahead of the driver—


( a ) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


(3) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, on a stretch of roadway on which traffic sign number RUS 014 [no overtaking] has been provided.


(4) Subject to the provisions of sub-article (5), a driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—


( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,


( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Isambard

As I said , it's not clear enough, but if a Gard's opinion differs to your own interpretation, you'll be getting a ticket for , presumably, dangerous driving.

sydthebeat

The situation in 10.5 c occurs every single day on the m50

Wildly Boaring

They should just make the m50 and the m7 a freeway and forget about them. Lost cause.

Like Mario carts or something going around there. Avoid like the plague

bfclancy

So for example I'm pootling along a dual carriageway at 95KM per hour and someone on the right lane is doing 75KPH am i supposed to decrease my speed to 75KPH? surely you are perfectly entitled to overtake in this scenario, this is not an uncommon occurrence

colm_mcm

bfclancy wrote: »

So for example I'm pootling along a dual carriageway at 95KM per hour and someone on the right lane is doing 75KPH am i supposed to decrease my speed to 75KPH? surely you are perfectly entitled to overtake in this scenario, this is not an uncommon occurrence

Nope, you flash your lights and wait for them to move over.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Nope, you flash your lights and wait for them to move over.

But what about back on earth?

KevRossi

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

I realise you can't bring learners onto a motorway but how do other countries manage? Do the traffic police here really not give a sh*t?

In other countries driving on the motorway is a compulsory part of the training and of the test.

And the Gardai don’t care and don’t enforce it.

No education on it either, no TV as campaigns or similar. I reckon at this point it’s practically too late anyway and it’s here to stay.

I used to drive the M50 from Swords to Red Cow every night around midnight. There would be a string of taxis in the middle lane whilst driving lane would be totally free.

sydthebeat

bfclancy wrote: »

So for example I'm pootling along a dual carriageway at 95KM per hour and someone on the right lane is doing 75KPH am i supposed to decrease my speed to 75KPH? surely you are perfectly entitled to overtake in this scenario, this is not an uncommon occurrence

If your car is in a line of traffic doing 95 you are fine to continue

Del2005

colm_mcm wrote: »

Nope, you flash your lights and wait for them to move over.

Done that and they still won't move. So the solution is to return to the driving lane, if you aren't overtaking a vehicle you should be in it!, and sit in their blind spot, not that they use their mirrors or they'd have seen you, as you can't pass them?

Has anyone ever been done for passing a line of vehicles on the left doing doing the speed limit when the others aren't?

Isambard

bfclancy wrote: »

So for example I'm pootling along a dual carriageway at 95KM per hour and someone on the right lane is doing 75KPH am i supposed to decrease my speed to 75KPH? surely you are perfectly entitled to overtake in this scenario, this is not an uncommon occurrence

yes you are, until he gets out of your way. Of course he is wrong to be doing it,

He's quite likely to be an unsafe driver and you're taking a huge risk passing him on the left when he could veer left at any time without looking. One of the reasons you don't pass on the left. (75km/h is hardly slow moving btw)

Isambard

KevRossi wrote: »

In other countries driving on the motorway is a compulsory part of the training and of the test.

And the Gardai don’t care and don’t enforce it.

No education on it either, no TV as campaigns or similar. I reckon at this point it’s practically too late anyway and it’s here to stay.

I used to drive the M50 from Swords to Red Cow every night around midnight. There would be a string of taxis in the middle lane whilst driving lane would be totally free.

which countries is that?

Wishbone Ash

colm_mcm wrote: »

Nope, you flash your lights and wait for them to move over.

He/she is referring to a scenario where they are travelling at 95 in the driving lane and catch up with another driver in the overtaking lane doing 75.

raxy

KevRossi wrote: »

In other countries driving on the motorway is a compulsory part of the training and of the test.

And the Gardai don’t care and don’t enforce it.

No education on it either, no TV as campaigns or similar. I reckon at this point it’s practically too late anyway and it’s here to stay.

I used to drive the M50 from Swords to Red Cow every night around midnight. There would be a string of taxis in the middle lane whilst driving lane would be totally free.

There have been ad campaigns on TV about this & roundabout use also. Both appear to have had 0 impact.
The only thing that might improve it is guards pulling over middle lane drivers to caution them, not that that will ever happen.

Del2005

KevRossi wrote: »

In other countries driving on the motorway is a compulsory part of the training and of the test.

And the Gardai don’t care and don’t enforce it.

No education on it either, no TV as campaigns or similar. I reckon at this point it’s practically too late anyway and it’s here to stay.

I was never thought how to drive on a motorway but when I read the Rules of the Road I figured it out, keep left unless overtaking I would have thought isn't that hard to figure out. Our problem isn't education its enforcement and the complete lack of it. Only yesterday at the I stopped at a red light and a van in the next lane went straight through even though they had plenty of time to stop.

AndyBoBandy

€50 on-the-spot fine for driving in an overtaking lane when the driving lane is reasonably clear. (If challenged, and Garda dashcam confirms you were in an overtaking lane for no reason, the fine increases to €100 & 2 penalty points).

Give the Garda Roads Policing unit a big remit to crack down heavily on this sort of thing. High Visibility in print, online & TV media for a month.


Problem disappears within weeks, and/or the state gains a new stream of revenue.

People generally get better at doing things when it ends up costing them money when they do said things incorrectly....

AndyBoBandy

I've often seen in the U.K. on the motorway gantry information signs (like the ones we have in Ireland, currently telling us to stay safe etc...) messages telling drivers to stay left at all times unless overtaking...

Why can't we do that when the signs are not being used for other important messages (i.e. in their downtime)

Door2Door Help!!

thelad95 wrote: »

Regularly I can undertake up to ten cars by staying in the driving lane before reaching a slow moving lorry or car that I have to overtake.

So many peoples default seems to be: merge, dawdle in the middle lane for ages, oh crap it's my exit leap frog two lanes without checking a single mirror or indicating.

The new three lane M7 is the exact same, 120km, lots of idiots crawling in the middle lane at 80-100

Yes doesn't just more like stay in the lane that speed you like.
So middle lane 100km and right lane 100km upwards.
Inside lane is often cars doing 80km.
But there is people who just go about 90km in middle lane paying no attention to any other car on the road.

Isambard

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

He/she is referring to a scenario where they are travelling at 95 in the driving lane and catch up with another driver in the overtaking lane doing 75.

yeah, and he means you pull out into the overtaking lane and flash your lights to wake them up. You don't sail past them in the driving lane.(well actually most people do, but it's not legal and it can be dangerous)

AndyBoBandy

I'll happily cruise in the driving lane and undertake slower moving vehicles that shouldn't be in overtaking lanes on most motorways/dual carriageways with the exception of the M50, where it's just too dangerous to do that, mainly because the exits come thick n fast, so the 'overtakers' usually make very late crossings of 1-2 lanes to get to their exit on time!!

grumpymunster

Typically I would drive around 50,000km a year and have done so for the past 30 years, only once in that time have I seen anybody pulled for driving slowly in the overtaking lane. I have seen Garda cars sit behind a drivers for km's in a 100km zone doing <60km with a queue of dozens of cars behind them chatting away merrily behind them. I have sat behind drivers and flashed to my hearts content but people presuppose these drivers have any concept of the rules of the road or what that funny mirror is for.

Quite simply like so many laws in this country they are passed for show and never enforced, if the Garda are not going to enforce this (lets face it stopping people driving unsafely in that manner is so much more difficult than pulling for speeding so they keep figures up and can pretend they are trying to keep the roads safe) then invest in average speed cameras which can easily be adopted to gauge driving circumstances as well.

It is possibly the most frustrating clearly visible driving offence out there and I would suggest perhaps even more dangerous than speeding.

Wildly Boaring

I actually know a guy who was pulled for it.

Told us all at work the next morning. Seemed to still be mystified as to why he got a fine.

Appparently the Garda told him that he'd had the blue lights on for a few km behind him and had to throw on the sirens to get his attention.

About 3 of us had a great laugh, about 3 more wondered "Have the Guards nothing better to do"....than enforce the law.......

colm_mcm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

He/she is referring to a scenario where they are travelling at 95 in the driving lane and catch up with another driver in the overtaking lane doing 75.

I would move to the overtaking lane in advance, having judged that the car ahead is moving slower than I am, flash the lights from a good distance, and they're usually gone.

Undertaking them is simply enabling/justifying their behavior.

Overtaking on the left and passing on the left are two different things .

Lurching

Isambard wrote: »

which countries is that?

In Germany, they have to do a certain amount of autobahn hours with an instructor before gaining a license.

antodeco

GreeBo wrote: »

You are confusing slower with slowly.

Slower means : Hey, you're going 5kmh slower than me, so I can pass you.

Slowly means, travelling at significantly less speed

( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle

Isambard wrote: »

here we go...that's nonsense. Only applies to queued traffic. Unclear wording is to blame, but your own interpretation won't excuse you from a charge if the Gards bother themselves.

What? Can you back up where it's nonsense and where the wording states it only applies to queued traffic please?

beauf

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Dunno if this has been posted before ....

..no never...

Wishbone Ash

Isambard wrote: »

yeah, and he means you pull out into the overtaking lane and flash your lights to wake them up. You don't sail past them in the driving lane.(well actually most people do, but it's not legal and it can be dangerous)

I didn't say it was appropriate or legal. I was merely explaining the other poster's query.

Truthvader

Relax; if the Greens get their way and impose their nanny fantasy you won't be allowed overtake anyone

Dravokivich

thelad95 wrote: »

The new three lane M7 is the exact same, 120km, lots of idiots crawling in the middle lane at 80-100

Poor road design. Lane 1 becomes the M9. Anyone who wants to be on the M7, will stay on Lane 2 when available.

thelad95 wrote: »

I'm aware that undertaking is dangerous too but I maintain progress and don't speed, it's the gombeens in the middle lane who are utterly clueless to any cars around them.

They aren't clueless about who's around them. You need to understand why they are their first.

McCrack wrote: »

Is it any more "dangerous" than passing on the right

Anyone changing lanes needs to look in their mirrors regardless whether they are changing to the left or right

We are trained to expect overtaking to occur on our right handside. It's very dangerous to overtake someone on their left handside, as there is a larger blindspot!

antodeco wrote: »

Technically it's it's not illegal if the traffic to your right is moving slowly. The definition of slowly is the issue.

Is someone doing 90 in the middle lane of a 120 motorway slow? I'd say so myself.

90, no matter what lane it is in, nor what the road is rated for, is far from slow. The idea you are going for, was a description of traffic congestion, that was put down for when were started building dual carraigeways.

BrownFinger wrote: »

Overtaking on the left and passing on the left are two different things .

Yeap, Overtaking on the left exists, Passing on the left is an excuse.

beauf

"Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly but traffic in the left-hand lane is
moving more quickly than the right-hand lane – for example, in slow-
moving stop-start traffic"

... S l o w l y ....

Dravokivich

bfclancy wrote: »

So for example I'm pootling along a dual carriageway at 95KM per hour and someone on the right lane is doing 75KPH am i supposed to decrease my speed to 75KPH? surely you are perfectly entitled to overtake in this scenario, this is not an uncommon occurrence

I slow down and wait in the first lane, but I give enough room for people to over take me. Very often, they'd already be in the 2nd lane.

Tazzimus

A problem with flashing someone to move over (at least over here anyway) is that some people will think you're being a dick and brake check you.

Lane discipline in general here is abysmal.