offenses commited while on bail

perfectkama

If somebody commits a crime while on bail should the victim not be allow to sue the state for negligence such as the crime link below

41 previous and out on bail FFS

https://www.thejournal.ie/jail-time-increased-attack-on-taxi-driver-courts-5157116-Jul2020/#comments


Then we could hold our clown judges to account

Atlantic Dawn

Generally unless their most recent crime is against a 'higher up' member of society the cycle of lax sentencing continues.

Inviere

Judge Pauline Codd sentenced him to three-and-a-half years in prison, but suspended the final two years and nine months of the sentence in light of mitigation.

However, the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) today appealed the undue leniency of that sentence to the Court of Appeal.

Appeal result...

They quashed the sentence and resentenced him again to three-and-a-half years in prison.

However, this time, they suspended only the final two years.

The mind boggles, it really does...

bunderoon

Inviere wrote: »

Appeal result...



The mind boggles, it really does...

You'd swear there is some sort of Legal milking of the state going on..
Just one of the many systemic failings that is holding the country back, and not just financially.

jim salter

Inviere wrote: »

Appeal result...



The mind boggles, it really does...

Why would the mind boggle.

Its a money making scam.

Until judges and solicitors begin to be the victims if or directly impacted by these crimes (regularly) this scam will continue.

Just look at Desmond Zaidan, he is very heavy handed on speeding as a result of a decision he made which ended badly (from what I have read online).

walshb

This person should be locked up for life...

It';s a clear as the nose on your face that he is plain bad....

Life!!! End of....

Nermal

If someone is convicted of an offence while on bail, the judge who granted him bail should serve the same sentence he gets.

If someone is given early release and then offends, let his probation officers join him for the remainder of his sentence.

Skin in the game.

nigeldaniel

I said a few years back at a meeting in Limerick that the system is a lot more complex than it some times seems. A lot of the time the Judge knows there is no room in the system to be putting them away so tends to send them down as a last resort. Other times the offender in question might be of use to the Guards intel wise so gets a few let-offs as long as the intel keeps coming. Just my musing on the matter noting more.

paw patrol

walshb wrote: »

This person should be locked up for life...

It';s a clear as the nose on your face that he is plain bad....

Life!!! End of....

why stop there, why not hang them all? :rolleyes:

littlevillage

Maybe sentence them to one Million years.... in the clink

Akesh

Ireland has a terrible criminal justice system. A party that is serious about punishing criminals for their actions would do well here. We're a soft touch. Judges should have discretion removed. The justice system isn't fit for purpose and there is no justice for the victims of crime. Parole boards should be held accountable for releasing re-offenders.

The prison reform lobby are the biggest waste of air on the planet.

ArmaniJeanss

Nermal wrote: »

If someone is given early release and then offends, let his probation officers join him for the remainder of his sentence.

Skin in the game.

Under this rule, why would anyone ever again apply for the position of probation officer? I can only assume you don't know what a probation officer is.

walshb

paw patrol wrote: »

why stop there, why not hang them all? :rolleyes:

No need to hang anybody.

Removal of these menaces to society from society

Far simpler, and doesn't involve killing...

What is your answer?

Rodney Bathgate

paw patrol wrote: »

why stop there, why not hang them all? :rolleyes:

Correct, but hanging is too good for them.

talla10

25% of offenders commit 75% of crime.

The prison population in Ireland is less than 5,000 out of a population of over 4 million people.

The solution is to build much bigger prisons, staff them and then there will be spaces for prisoners to serve out their full terms, not ones with a quarter of remission as standard.

All offenders on bail who breach their conditions would be able to have their bail revoked and wait for their trial in prison.

All offences for non payment of fines should be linked to wages/social welfare which would result in fines being paid, more money to the state and there will be more compliance because a fine would no longer be an empty threat.

Also the Criminal Justice Legal Aid should be paid to solicitors/barristers per case not by number of court appearances which is currently the situation.

None of this is likely to occur.

Sultan of Bling

Build multiple super prisons around the country.

Make a deal with developers to sell off the land of city prisons for development on the completion of the work.

Or as someone else suggested just hang the f***kers.

Akesh

Akesh wrote: »

Ireland has a terrible criminal justice system. A party that is serious about punishing criminals for their actions would do well here. We're a soft touch. Judges should have discretion removed. The justice system isn't fit for purpose and there is no justice for the victims of crime. Parole boards should be held accountable for releasing re-offenders.

The prison reform lobby are the biggest waste of air on the planet.

It is a lot like this in Italy.

Understand:

There is no Justice system

There is a Legal system

They are completely differed, but lead people to believe they are the same.

Muahahaha

Have a family member who at the start of their career worked as a barrister defending criminals under free legal aid. Basically the criminal knows when they are caught for crime no.1 and awaiting trial they then have a free pass to commit crimes no.2, 3 and 4. This is because they know any sentences handed down for all their crimes will run concurrently and not consecutively.

So they basically get multiple crimes for the price of one because they know three or four sentences will run together at the same time rather than one after the other. So the system actually incentivises them to commit even more crime when they get caught for the first one and are awaiting trial. If they get caught doing that then its no odds to them.

SEPT 23 1989

why would the legal system build more prisons and lock away their most valuable assets for years when they could be out reoffending?

think about it

Sultan of Bling

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

why would the legal system build more prisons and lock away their most valuable assets for years when they could be out reoffending?

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

think about it

It's just wishful thinking by law abiding citizens.

I think everyone is aware of the vested interests in not doing so.

walshb

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

why would the legal system build more prisons and lock away their most valuable assets for years when they could be out reoffending?

think about it

This makes perfect sense because I can't think of any other reason as to why our sentencing and dealing with serious criminals is so disgusting.

touts

perfectkama wrote: »

If somebody commits a crime while on bail should the victim not be allow to sue the state for negligence such as the crime link below

41 previous and out on bail FFS

https://www.thejournal.ie/jail-time-increased-attack-on-taxi-driver-courts-5157116-Jul2020/#comments


Then we could hold our clown judges to account

Scum like this are known as cash cows in the Justice Industry. They get bail and lenient sentences because to jail them would mean they can't commit more crimes for the solicitors, barristers, judges etc to all profit from. Plus they have powerful well funded lobby groups like the Irish Council for Civil Liberties out fighting for criminal rights. No one in the justice industry cares about victims and the victims rights groups haven't a fraction of the funding and resources the Criminal Rights groups do. So it is unlikely that we will ever see the sort of right to compensation you suggest.

Markcheese

Nermal wrote: »

If someone is convicted of an offence while on bail, the judge who granted him bail should serve the same sentence he gets.

If someone is given early release and then offends, let his probation officers join him for the remainder of his sentence.

Skin in the game.

Really ... ???

Markcheese

I do reckon if someone gets convicted of a crime while on bail that the sentence for the second ( ???) Crime should be significantly longer ... I think sentences running concurrently is daft ... 3 convictions ,3 sentences 1 after the other ..(.but not necessarily all served in prison , think curfews tagging ,actual long term community service , night and weekend sentences ...)
And 20 years of suspended sentances ,should mean your sentance is suspended for 20 years , infractions mean start your 20 years now ...

irishproduce

Keep in mind that for the 41 convictions recorded, some solicitor(s) and barrister(s) got a payout 41 times.
Have a think about that and you'll begin to see the problem.

McCrack

irishproduce wrote: »

Keep in mind that for the 41 convictions recorded, some solicitor(s) and barrister(s) got a payout 41 times.
Have a think about that and you'll begin to see the problem.

Usually not, accused usually will have more than one charge and a legal aid cert will only cover the court appearance not the number of charges being preferred

walshb

walshb wrote: »

This makes perfect sense because I can't think of any other reason as to why our sentencing and dealing with serious criminals is so disgusting.

Because nobody want to take responsibility for any mistakes. You can't have an absolute punishment that truly removes repeat offenders, because of the possibility, however remote, that the offender is innocent.

So.. it's all aimed at prison, which just postpones the problem with numbers of inmates increasing over time because national populations are generally rising with no real way to deter crime.

McCrack

Muahahaha wrote: »

Have a family member who at the start of their career worked as a barrister defending criminals under free legal aid. Basically the criminal knows when they are caught for crime no.1 and awaiting trial they then have a free pass to commit crimes no.2, 3 and 4. This is because they know any sentences handed down for all their crimes will run concurrently and not consecutively.

So they basically get multiple crimes for the price of one because they know three or four sentences will run together at the same time rather than one after the other. So the system actually incentivises them to commit even more crime when they get caught for the first one and are awaiting trial. If they get caught doing that then its no odds to them.

That's an incorrect understanding

Offences commited on bail are dealt with consecutively to any earlier sentence, judge has no discretion

mynamejeff

McCrack wrote: »

That's an incorrect understanding

Offences commited on bail are dealt with consecutively to any earlier sentence, judge has no discretion

Really ?


that's not the way its been working in the circuit criminal courts ive been in


consecutive sentencing is almost never used in district or circuit in Ireland

concurrent is the word your looking for

hierro

McCrack wrote: »

Usually not, accused usually will have more than one charge and a legal aid cert will only cover the court appearance not the number of charges being preferred

Solicitors are paid either per charge sheet or incident, I'm not sure.

Some solicitors will claim the first two charge sheets and pass the next pair to another solicitor in the practice. That original solicitor will work the case.

The first charge sheet is say 125 and the second is say 100, the third 50 and so on, for the first day at least. By passing the third sheet to your colleague, the practice earns 125 for the third sheet. Bill is 350 as opposed to 275. Estimated figures.

McCrack

mynamejeff wrote: »

Really ?


that's not the way its been working in the circuit criminal courts ive been in


consecutive sentencing is almost never used in district or circuit in Ireland

concurrent is the word your looking for

Yes

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1984/act/22/section/11/enacted/en/html

McCrack

hierro wrote: »

Solicitors are paid either per charge sheet or incident, I'm not sure.

Some solicitors will claim the first two charge sheets and pass the next pair to another solicitor in the practice. That original solicitor will work the case.

The first charge sheet is say 125 and the second is say 100, the third 50 and so on, for the first day at least. By passing the third sheet to your colleague, the practice earns 125 for the third sheet. Bill is 350 as opposed to 275. Estimated figures.

I agree with you to an extent - however passing a cert to a colleague in the office might not be available if the solr is a sole practitioner (and many defence solrs are outside Dublin) and also it requires the Judges discretion which is not always given.

My point was to the poster who said an accused with 41 convictions means the lawyers got paid 41 times - that's not the case in reality

In any event the fees paid under the legal aid scheme are quite modest and there are certainly other areas of practice that pay better.

walshb

If anyone wants to see how disgusting our justice system is for putting away seriously dangerous people, read the RTE story on Bottler Devoy...

15 years for latest deadly crime. Be out before he is 50.

Lifetime of serious crime.....and continually allowed free to continue it.

This country and its dealing with menaces to society is abhorrent!

Fakediamond

I agree that we should have lengthy sentences for violent offenders, anyone convicted of crimes against the person. The sanctions should get higher for repeat offending. That would fill the prisons to the extent that lesser offences would need to be dealt with by alternative means, a poster above mentioned community service, tagging, curfews etc, which should be strictly enforced.

A lot of crime, robberies, thefts etc, are linked to drug use, treatment services need serious investment to break the cycle of reoffending, creating a win-win for victim and perpetrator. The current system to access treatment is crazy. Hardly any detox beds, addicts must be clean for weeks before being offered a treatment bed, no urinalysis services in most counties for those that want an incentive to stop. So Courts can ask for clean urines, but there’s no service to provide those urines. I’m surprised some canny entrepreneur hasn’t filled that gap in the market yet!

Zebra3

Akesh wrote: »

Parole boards

Would make for a cracking forum. :pac: