I'm 18, just got my A2 license, turns out I can't insure any of the bikes I wanted to

Damo_108

Hey guys, turns out I can't insure any of the bikes I was interested in buying even though they met the 35kW and 0.2kW/kg limits. Liberty basically said to get a 125cc bike, what a joke. If you're interested, I wanted to buy either a Yamaha virago 535, Yamaha V-star 650, or a Kawasaki Ninja 250r. Any advice before I give up?

Edit: sorry the title cuts out, *I wanted to ride*

Edit: got a quote from Carole Nash for a Yamaha Drag Star 250 cruiser, €3500 per year, nice.

IrishGrimReaper

What did Principle Insurance and Carole Nash say?

Pawwed Rig

I am 44 and it looks like nothing has changed since I was 18 getting my first bike. Insurance in this country is a disgrace given that we are very safe drivers by international standards. Sorry OP. All you can do is call all of the companies that will cover bikes and ask.

Damo_108

IrishGrimReaper wrote: »

What did Principle Insurance and Carole Nash say?

Principle said they and Carole Nash don't insure under 20yos.

zubair

Talk to liberty about any courses they recognise that will qualify you for a quote on one of these bikes. Otherwise you might have to serve your time on an A1.

Damo_108

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I am 44 and it looks like nothing has changed since I was 18 getting my first bike. Insurance in this country is a disgrace given that we are very safe drivers by international standards. Sorry OP. All you can do is call all of the companies that will cover bikes and ask.

I called principle and liberty, principle said Carole Nash doesn't do under 20year olds either, the only company left I know of is Axa, but from my dads experience they're horrible. Looks like a dead end.

punisher5112

Damo_108 wrote: »

I called principle and liberty, principle said Carole Nash doesn't do under 20year olds either, the only company left I know of is Axa, but from my dads experience they're horrible. Looks like a dead end.

Horrible or not if you get it at a price you can afford or they are the only ones id use them for minimum third party.

galwaytt

Damo_108 wrote: »

I called principle and liberty, principle said Carole Nash doesn't do under 20year olds either, the only company left I know of is Axa, but from my dads experience they're horrible. Looks like a dead end.

My son has been insured with Liberty since he was 16 (2019), so can't see why you have an issue.

Btw, you can forget anything with the letter 'R' in it: CBR, GSX-R, Z..R etc.

Buy a 250-400cc bike.

No reflection on your skills etc, but for those of us riding bikes since the 80's, the notion of anyone starting off on anything other than a 125 is fanciful, and as for riding 650's at 18............lolz. I was well into my 20's before I got to do that.

Back then we didn't need A1, A2, A or IBT to 'graduate' through from small to bigger bikes: it was just sheer economics: wages were low, bikes were dear, insurance bananas.

Same as it always was then.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Damo_108 wrote: »

Hey guys, turns out I can't insure any of the bikes I was interested in buying even though they met the 35kW and 0.2kW/kg limits. Liberty basically said to get a 125cc bike, what a joke. If you're interested, I wanted to buy either a Yamaha virago 535, Yamaha V-star 650, or a Kawasaki Ninja 250r. Any advice before I give up?

1) Try all insurance companies. Liberty, Carole Nash, Principle, brokers... try them all. You might be lucky.

2) Get a 125cc, insure it and put in the time. You'll be up a year's NCB and age, and likely able to insure something bigger next year.

3) Buy my CB400SF I got insured on it after my IBT, though I was a bit older by then.

If you're ready to give up because you can only have a 125, then it's probably for the best as impatience on a bike can be fatal with no second chances.

Damo_108

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

1) Try all insurance companies. Liberty, Carole Nash, Principle, brokers... try them all. You might be lucky.

2) Get a 125cc, insure it and put in the time. You'll be up a year's NCB and age, and likely able to insure something bigger next year.

3) Buy my CB400SF I got insured on it after my IBT, though I was a bit older by then.

If you're ready to give up because you can only have a 125, then it's probably for the best as impatience on a bike can be fatal with no second chances.

I'm considering putting in the time, it's just I waited 2 years doing summer jobs to save up for a bike, it'd be quite disappointing being told that you've wasted two years. But as you've said, I might do a year on a 125, it's not that it's bad, it's just more about the disappointment.

Padre_Pio

Damo_108 wrote: »

I'm considering putting in the time, it's just I waited 2 years doing summer jobs to save up for a bike, it'd be quite disappointing being told that you've wasted two years. But as you've said, I might do a year on a 125, it's not that it's bad, it's just more about the disappointment.

You haven't wasted any time, and you're the same as anyone starting out:)
Even in a car the insurance would crucify you if you dare to buy larger than a 1.4.

TheUnderfaker

The chicks won't know the difference whether it's a 125 or 250

goblin59

try AXA, some of these places will insure you if you do a Motorbike skills assessment programme.

The other option is buy the bike you want, and have it restricted to a 125cc, after a year you can probably remove the restriction.


Another option is, if your dad can ride a bike, get the bike under his name for now, and then have yourself as a named driver under his insurance policy.

(I was always told to **** off when i mentioned this to my Dad though, he didn't want me ****ing up 40+ years of no claims)

goblin59

thing i learn't today is boards *** swearing now.

zubair

goblin59 wrote: »

thing i learn't today is boards *** swearing now.

They've always ****ing did that.

endacl

******* *****. *** * **** ** ** ******!

Jimmy Bottlehead

endacl wrote: »

******* *****. *** * **** ** ** ******!

Jesus Enda, the poor lad just wants insurance.

Damo_108

goblin59 wrote: »

try AXA, some of these places will insure you if you do a Motorbike skills assessment programme.

The other option is buy the bike you want, and have it restricted to a 125cc, after a year you can probably remove the restriction.


Another option is, if your dad can ride a bike, get the bike under his name for now, and then have yourself as a named driver under his insurance policy.

(I was always told to **** off when i mentioned this to my Dad though, he didn't want me ****ing up 40+ years of no claims)

I'll try AXA, lol my dad wouldn't agree to that either. Also imagine restricting an already slow 650cc bike to 125cc, I'd have to roll it down a hill every time to start it XD.

Damo_108

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

The chicks won't know the difference whether it's a 125 or 250

Hahahahahahahahaha, true.

ratracer

Damo_108 wrote: »

I'll try AXA, lol my dad wouldn't agree to that either. Also imagine restricting an already slow 650cc bike to 125cc, I'd have to roll it down a hill every time to start it XD.

I can’t imagine that there are many 125cc bikes that won’t do 100km/h. It might not be as cool as you think, but it’ll be quick enough. As said already, if you want to be a biker just get whatever you can insure and get a year or two no claims under your belt while trying to stay alive!

We’ve all been there, back in the day I wanted and RG250...... I ended up with an Kawasaki AR-80, but it got me anywhere I wanted to go in the country!!

Damo_108

ratracer wrote: »

I can’t imagine that there are many 125cc bikes that won’t do 100km/h. It might not be as cool as you think, but it’ll be quick enough. As said already, if you want to be a biker just get whatever you can insure and get a year or two no claims under your belt while trying to stay alive!

We’ve all been there, back in the day I wanted and RG250...... I ended up with an Kawasaki AR-80, but it got me anywhere I wanted to go in the country!!

I meant that it would be almost impossible for a 125cc engine to move a 240kg bike, by default, its max speed with a 650cc engine at full throttle is 140kmph, so it's already pretty slow. Also you're probably right, life is a series of compromises after all.

rock22

Damo_108 wrote: »

......its max speed with a 650cc engine at full throttle is 140kmph, so it's already pretty slow. ........

To be honest, you really don't sound mature enough to be riding a motorcycle on the public road

zubair

rock22 wrote: »

To be honest, you really don't sound mature enough to be riding a motorcycle on the public road

I don't know, anything that can't do a ton seems pretty slow to me too.

Damo_108

rock22 wrote: »

To be honest, you really don't sound mature enough to be riding a motorcycle on the public road

I was just stating that going at full throttle in 5th gear, it can barely achieve that speed. A smaller engine Kawasaki Ninja 250r can achieve 175ish kmph, and from the very little experience that I have I can tell you sports bikes have a much more responsive throttle than cruisers. This is the exact reason why I was considering to get a larger but slower cruiser. Funny enough the smaller engine cruiser, the Yamaha can achieve 160kmph.

Damo_108

rock22 wrote: »

To be honest, you really don't sound mature enough to be riding a motorcycle on the public road

I was just stating that going at full throttle in 5th gear, it can barely achieve that speed. A smaller engine Kawasaki Ninja 250r can achieve 175ish kmph, and from the very little experience that I have I can tell you sports bikes have a much more responsive throttle than cruisers. This is the exact reason I was considering to get a larger but slower cruiser. Funny enough the smaller engine cruiser, the Yamaha virago 535 can achieve 160kmph.

MojoMaker

You'll never see those speeds in Ireland though Damo, so you won't be missing anything.

Most of us here started on 50s, 80s, 100s, 125s, and 250s over time. There's no shame in getting going on a 125 for your first year - something low cost that won't break your wallet if you drop or prang it. You're going to make a sh1tload of mistakes in your first year anyway (even if you don't believe it) and you're FAR better off on something modest at 18. This is the reason you're hitting the wall with these companies - they already know this from experience and data.

Rafal

Damo_108 wrote: »

Hey guys, turns out I can't insure any of the bikes I was interested in buying even though they met the 35kW and 0.2kW/kg limits.

As long as there is a company that insures your age group, you definitely can get insurance in Ireland even if refused. Read up about the DCA (Declined Cases Agreement) procedure in this post I shared on another thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110413700&postcount=5

Bottom line: you need to get three refusal letters from three different Irish insurers. Then follow the procedure and as long as it is not against the public interest to insure you Insurance Ireland will instruct the first company that refused you to offer you a quote. It may—in your case it will—be expensive, but it cannot be unreasonably high for your age and risk group, ie. it will be as expensive as others in your risk group would have to pay.

As others said, many of us had to pay a lot for our first insurances. Mine cost more than my first bike, and it was only a baby Ninja 125 (before they were called Ninja) back in 1995. Give it a year or two and the premium will come down. Pass a RoSPA exam and it *will* come down a lot for you.

If you really want to try something more powerful without having to insure it, consider a trackday at Mondello. Above all, practice and learn plenty, which is much easier when you are younger, and totally worth the extra insurance cost.

CJhaughey

Twins handle restriction better than I4 engines, something like a XL125V would be good for you if you can find a good one.
They are a decent size for a 125.
I started on a MT5 years back, then an RD50 so I know a thing or two about small bikes.
Its not about speed when you start out, think about using your time on a learner bike to further your mechanical skills and road craft.
Its all about being a safe and competent rider, you want to be in this for the long haul not just a quick blast and a trip to the ER.

Vikings

Try something like a Varadero 125 see what quotes insurance give you on that. Will be a tall comfy bike that you can increase your skills on and become a better rider. Riding is about observation skills as much as handling skills.

Speed should be your last criteria on your first bike.

Damo_108

MojoMaker wrote: »

You'll never see those speeds in Ireland though Damo, so you won't be missing anything.

Most of us here started on 50s, 80s, 100s, 125s, and 250s over time. There's no shame in getting going on a 125 for your first year - something low cost that won't break your wallet if you drop or prang it. You're going to make a sh1tload of mistakes in your first year anyway (even if you don't believe it) and you're FAR better off on something modest at 18. This is the reason you're hitting the wall with these companies - they already know this from experience and data.

Sorry I probably should've phrased it better, I'm just comparing the maximum speed these bikes are capable of, I'm taking account of different factors that will determine how the bike drives. For example, I know for a fact you can achieve 60-70kmph on the first gear on a CBR 600rr before you have to switch to second gear to go any faster. On a cruiser, I can make a guess that you can't go any faster than 40kmph on first gear and it would take much longer to reach that speed, which is obviously better for a new biker, going slower making me less of a hazard for myself and other people, and giving me more reaction time. To clarify, I'm looking for a bike I can both enjoy and learn on, not looking to go fast.

goblin59

Vikings wrote: »

Try something like a Varadero 125 see what quotes insurance give you on that. Will be a tall comfy bike that you can increase your skills on and become a better rider. Riding is about observation skills as much as handling skills.

Speed should be your last criteria on your first bike.

I was just about to recommend a Vandero 125.
A friend of mine had one for his first bike and loves it
Great bike overall, and for the engine size he was saying he had no issues on the motorways with it.

He wants to do it up for going on off road trips as its lighter than his CB500X

Sonics2k

Damo_108 wrote: »

Sorry I probably should've phrased it better, I'm just comparing the maximum speed these bikes are capable of, I'm taking account of different factors that will determine how the bike drives. For example, I know for a fact you can achieve 60-70kmph on the first gear on a CBR 600rr before you have to switch to second gear to go any faster. On a cruiser, I can make a guess that you can't go any faster than 40kmph on first gear and it would take much longer to reach that speed, which is obviously better for a new biker, going slower making me less of a hazard for myself and other people, and giving me more reaction time. To clarify, I'm looking for a bike I can both enjoy and learn on, not looking to go fast.

Why are you comparing Cruiser speed with a racing or touring bike speed?

You may as well compare an old Rolls Royce with a Lamborghini, they're made for two different tasks.

I can tell you for sure that a Dragstar 650 will go above 150km/h, but I really can't see why you'd want to, as the bike simply isn't designed for it and it's way above the actual limit.

Clearly you know about bikes, but be smart man.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Damo_108 wrote: »

Sorry I probably should've phrased it better, I'm just comparing the maximum speed these bikes are capable of, I'm taking account of different factors that will determine how the bike drives. For example, I know for a fact you can achieve 60-70kmph on the first gear on a CBR 600rr before you have to switch to second gear to go any faster. On a cruiser, I can make a guess that you can't go any faster than 40kmph on first gear and it would take much longer to reach that speed, which is obviously better for a new biker, going slower making me less of a hazard for myself and other people, and giving me more reaction time. To clarify, I'm looking for a bike I can both enjoy and learn on, not looking to go fast.

The other part, as my aul lad says, is that "Anyone can go fast. It takes a skilled driver to be able to stop safely."

Don't worry about speed, get the skills down first as the lads say. By the time your first year is up, you'll likely be wanting and more importantly READY for a more powerful bike.

zubair

Sonics2k wrote: »

Why are you comparing Cruiser speed with a racing or touring bike speed?

You may as well compare an old Rolls Royce with a Lamborghini, they're made for two different tasks.

I can tell you for sure that a Dragstar 650 will go above 150km/h, but I really can't see why you'd want to, as the bike simply isn't designed for it and it's way above the actual limit.

Clearly you know about bikes, but be smart man.

To be fair to him, he hasn't come on here saying, is an R1 a good starter bike, like the usual rubbish on here. He's asked about getting insured on a couple of low cc A2 bikes. It's better to have a bike that tops out at a higher speed so you're not ringing its neck at motorway speeds. He's got his A2, I wouldn't want to be on an A1 either if I was him but it might be inevitable.

Damo_108

Sonics2k wrote: »

Why are you comparing Cruiser speed with a racing or touring bike speed?

You may as well compare an old Rolls Royce with a Lamborghini, they're made for two different tasks.

I can tell you for sure that a Dragstar 650 will go above 150km/h, but I really can't see why you'd want to, as the bike simply isn't designed for it and it's way above the actual limit.

Clearly you know about bikes, but be smart man.

Yes of course, my dad has a CBR 600rr so I compare other bikes to it, I have an interest in sports bikes but knowing the aggressive throttle response and their speed capabilities I prefer to get a slow cruiser especially as a learner. I'm most certainly not trying to go 140/150kmph on a Virago, I want to go slow, especially when I'm learning to ride in traffic. I'm just using those values to compare bikes. Sorry I have a tendency go into great detail and then it confuses everyone, including myself lol.

MJH17

I'm 59 and my bike is a Triumph 900cc Scrambler, insurance is less than €150 third party fire and theft ....... I'd still prefer to be 18 though !!!!

Pawwed Rig

MJH17 wrote: »

I'd still prefer to be 18 though !!!!

Would you? I would take 30 but would hate to be 18 again

tobottherobot

Just bite the bullet on a 125 man... we've all been there. Buy a clean one that's a couple of years old and you'll probably sell it next year for similar money I'd imagine. I had issues with getting a quote from a company this year even though Ive 10 years NCB, full license etc. as I have to leave my bike in my garden locked to a ground anchor so dealing with poor insurance companies is just something you'll need to get used to!

galwaytt

tobottherobot wrote: »

Just bite the bullet on a 125 man... we've all been there. Buy a clean one that's a couple of years old and you'll probably sell it next year for similar money I'd imagine. I had issues with getting a quote from a company this year even though Ive 10 years NCB, full license etc. as I have to leave my bike in my garden locked to a ground anchor so dealing with poor insurance companies is just something you'll need to get used to!

I disagree: my young lad has one, and the sooner he's off it and on to a bigger one, the better.

When we started, 125s were faster than local traffic: 1.0 Fiestas etc. Nowadays young lads are driving 2.0 Tdi and a 125 is a mobile roadblock, unable to stay out of and get out of, harms way.

There's bound to be insurable 250s out there.

OP - whats your budget?

OhToBeByTheSea

If there's a decent cb400 anywhere, you could pick one of those up, cheaper to insure, a grand bit of power and fairly hardy bikes. Just watch the mileage as you don't want to get an ex courier one.

This is a really rubbish position to be in.

I'm a female and never had any issues with insurance. I thought all this BS about pricing young men out of the market was done with. Insurance companies make my blood boil so I can't even imagine how annoyed you are.

galwaytt

OhToBeByTheSea wrote: »

If there's a decent cb400 anywhere, you could pick one of those up, cheaper to insure, a grand bit of power and fairly hardy bikes. Just watch the mileage as you don't want to get an ex courier one.

This is a really rubbish position to be in.

I'm a female and never had any issues with insurance. I thought all this BS about pricing young men out of the market was done with. Insurance companies make my blood boil so I can't even imagine how annoyed you are.

With a daughter who was driving at 17, and and a son now who can't even get on as a named driver, I can assure you the young lad targeting is alive and well.

punisher5112

galwaytt wrote: »

With a daughter who was driving at 17, and and a son now who can't even get on as a named driver, I can assure you the young lad targeting is alive and well.

Was exactly the same back in 2002... Quote to be named on a extremely high powered speed machine of a Nissan primera 1.6 petrol no turbo needed it's that quick..... €6,500

I had oy option of bike then so got a 250 fzr and it was just under €3k

I've never seen any major drop and gear on year my insurance has gone up. Trade policy is nuts.

twowheelsonly

Vikings wrote: »

Try something like a Varadero 125 see what quotes insurance give you on that. Will be a tall comfy bike that you can increase your skills on and become a better rider. Riding is about observation skills as much as handling skills.

Speed should be your last criteria on your first bike.

My young fella got one of these as his first bike a few years ago. What a superb machine. I loved it as much as he did and it certainly felt a lot bigger than a 125.
He sold it after 2 years and got the same money back for it as he paid for it. I was half tempted to keep it myself as I found it brilliant as an all-rounder.
Just reading this now I'm half sorry I didn't

zubair

OhToBeByTheSea wrote: »

If there's a decent cb400 anywhere, you could pick one of those up, cheaper to insure, a grand bit of power and fairly hardy bikes. Just watch the mileage as you don't want to get an ex courier one.

This is a really rubbish position to be in.

I'm a female and never had any issues with insurance. I thought all this BS about pricing young men out of the market was done with. Insurance companies make my blood boil so I can't even imagine how annoyed you are.

Good advice but I think the 400 is in the same or similar insurance bracket as the ninja etc.

carsQhere

galwaytt wrote: »

I disagree: my young lad has one, and the sooner he's off it and on to a bigger one, the better.

Same here.

galwaytt wrote: »

When we started, 125s were faster than local traffic: 1.0 Fiestas etc. Nowadays young lads are driving 2.0 Tdi and a 125 is a mobile roadblock, unable to stay out of and get out of, harms way.

That - in part - was the logic behind the A2 license at EU level. There was a recognition that 125cc machines were simply too slow outside of urban limits. The A2 was intended to give younger riders access to usable machines up to 47bhp while building up experience. They didn't factor in Irish insurance companies however.

galwaytt wrote: »

There's bound to be insurable 250s out there.

OP - whats your budget?

Surprised there's not more 250s about. They used to be a thing. Honda nailed the A2 market segment with the CB500 range, shame they didn't do something similar with a 250 series for insurance hindered markets like ours.

zubair

MJH17 wrote: »

I'm 59 and my bike is a Triumph 900cc Scrambler, insurance is less than €150 third party fire and theft ....... I'd still prefer to be 18 though !!!!

One of the best posts this year. :-)

Jimmy Bottlehead

zubair wrote: »

Good advice but I think the 400 is in the same or similar insurance bracket as the ninja etc.

It'd be worth the OP checking to see though, they're not sexy machines so they might be insurable. Again I got it no bother as my first bike.

And OP, if a CB400 does interest you, let me know. Mine is for sale and I can vouch for it being a solid machine that'll see you well.

ForestFire

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

The chicks won't know the difference whether it's a 125 or 250

I know everthing is gone metric now, but what's that in inches......!! ;-)......


Asking for a friend.....

OhToBeByTheSea

zubair wrote: »

Good advice but I think the 400 is in the same or similar insurance bracket as the ninja etc.

Oh, would it be? Jesus, they're not exactly beasts! They're a grand first bike with just the right amount of power for a new rider and hardy enough for the longer drives.

zubair

OhToBeByTheSea wrote: »

Oh, would it be? Jesus, they're not exactly beasts! They're a grand first bike with just the right amount of power for a new rider and hardy enough for the longer drives.

I meant the ninja 250 as the OP suggested this themselves, just in case you thought I meant the 600+.

Jimmy Bottlehead

OhToBeByTheSea wrote: »

Oh, would it be? Jesus, they're not exactly beasts! They're a grand first bike with just the right amount of power for a new rider and hardy enough for the longer drives.

They've a surprising amount of pep to them for a 400, and physically they look bigger than you'd expect from a 400.
Quick acceleration does start to run out of steam after about 80km/h, but I did a year commuting up and down the M1 at 120km/h on mine.
It's not ideal for longer drives due to the lack of wind protection, but they're absolutely savage for city driving and non-motorway roads.

The fact I was happy with mine for five years speaks to how good they are, so hopefully they're insurable for younger riders.
The chap I did my first IBT with said if it wasn't for insurance companies requiring newer bikes, he'd still be using the CB400s with learners.