Failing to make progress

StonedRaider

Long 2.5mile stretch of road, 100km speed limit. Drivers pull out onto this stretch and then sit at 65-70kmh. Good road conditions and visibility, no hazards, no cyclist/pedestrians etc.

Can they be reported for driving without due care with dashcam footage?

I know a couple of friends and family that have failed their driving tests due to being marked down 5,6 or even 7 points due to 'not making sufficient progress'(actual quote from rsa testers).

The speed limit is not a target.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

StonedRaider wrote: »

Long 2.5mile stretch of road, 100km speed limit. Drivers pull out onto this stretch and then sit at 65-70kmh. Good road conditions and visibility, no hazards, no cyclist/pedestrians etc.

Can they be reported for driving without due care with dashcam footage?

I know a couple of friends and family that have failed their driving tests due to being marked down 5,6 or even 7 points due to 'not making sufficient progress'(actual quote from rsa testers).

It's a limit not a target.

Leave early if it's a regular thing.

If it's an open clear road can you not overtake?

Cork Trucker

100km/h speed limit is exactly that, a LIMIT. Not the minimum speed you can do.

StonedRaider

Why are the rsa testers using this as an excuse to mark new drivers down then?

Some comments seem to imply that I'm driving at the limit. I don't. I don't have to leave early as I'm not late.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

What minimum speed should they be doing?

90? 95? 99?

So a driver should be punished for driving below 99 km/h and fined for exceeding 100 km/h?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

StonedRaider wrote: »

Why are the rsa testers using this as an excuse to mark new drivers down then?

Some comments seem to imply that I'm driving at the limit. I don't. I don't have to leave early as I'm not late.

If you're not late then why do slower drivers annoy you?

If they are a regular thing as implied by your post, then allow extra time to reach your destination.

dmc17

65 in a 100 zone is a bit slow. Usually results in a lot of overtaking which is not ideal.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

dmc17 wrote: »

65 in a 100 zone is a bit slow. Usually results in a lot of overtaking which is not ideal.

Overtake when safe and legal to do so.

It's no different to coming up behind a cyclist or a hearse or a horse.

StonedRaider

So guards seem to agree with me. Drivers will be cautioned, my details taken if this were to go further.

micks_address

Failing to make progress is more people slow pulling out of junctions during their test... or stopping to long. They won't fail you for doing 20k in a 30km zone

knucklehead6

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Overtake when safe and legal to do so.

It's no different to coming up behind a cyclist or a hearse or a horse.

Speaking of horses, hows the view from up there on that high one??

65 in a 100 zone is a tad slow.
it would be frustrating to be caught behind someone doing 35 km/h below the speed limit

Hurrache

StonedRaider wrote: »

So guards seem to agree with me. Drivers will be cautioned, my details taken if this were to go further.

I don't believe this, or else they're palming you off.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

StonedRaider wrote: »

So guards seem to agree with me. Drivers will be cautioned, my details taken if this were to go further.

You called the Gardaí, they responded and you made a statement all within 13 minutes of your OP?

:rolleyes:

If you had already called the Gardaí then why didn't you mention that in your OP?

I highly doubt the Gardaí will caution anyone. There's a number of possible reasons that they might have been been driving slowly. A spare tyre might be one of them.

micks_address

StonedRaider wrote: »

So guards seem to agree with me. Drivers will be cautioned, my details taken if this were to go further.

3.692307692 minutes to do that kessel run @65km per hour
2.4 minutes @ 100km

you are loosing 1.4 minutes of your life that you will never get back

Why are people in such a hurry on the roads?

disclaimer... my maths might be wrong

StonedRaider

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

You called the Gardaí, they responded and you made a statement all within 13 minutes of your OP?

:rolleyes:

If you had already called the Gardaí then why didn't you mention that in your OP?

I highly doubt the Gardaí will caution anyone. There's a number of possible reasons that they might have been been driving slowly. A spare tyre might be one of them.

All done long before op. Just wanted opinions.

I didn't ask them to pursue. They made the decision after viewing footage. They advised me.

Hurrache

You didn't have a choice to ask them to pursue.

Duckjob

StonedRaider wrote: »

... no cyclist/pedestrians etc.

Ever?

If a) other road users besides people in cars are not prohibited from that stretch of road, and b) there's no facilities to cater for the safety of those users then the posted limit should be a lot lower anyway - probably 50kph max.

TheValeyard

Can be very frustrating when someone is driving well under the speed limit. I drive on a stretch of road that's 100K. One particular driver never goes above 35/40. Causes a build up of traffic behind him. He just sits there, one arm resting out the window.

Miscreant

StonedRaider wrote: »

Can they be reported for driving without due care with dashcam footage?

So you had already reported to the Gardaí and got an answer yet you still ask the question on an open forum of people who are not Gardaí?

I do agree that doing 65 in a 100 zone is slow (by a long shot) but it seems you now have 3 options here:
1. Let it go.... Sit behind them and fume for a couple of minutes lamenting the lost time and the many pleasurable activities you could have partaken in during that period.
2. Overtake them when it is safe and regain a few minutes of your life
3. Take your Dashcam footage to the Gardaí who said it was something they could do something about and follow up that they have done it.

You are entitled to report someone for Dangerous Driving or Driving Without Due Care as long as you are willing to put your name to paper, provide evidence and back it all up in court (AFAIK) so if you feel strongly enough about it, fire away.

Creamy Goodness

I know gardai get a bad rep a lot of the time but Christ they must have patience of a saint to have to put up with this request.

StonedRaider

Interesting.
What do people who drive for a living think?

Creamy Goodness

StonedRaider wrote: »

Interesting.
What do people who drive for a living think?

They’ll think the same as everyone else as majority of people who drive for a living are subject to their own speed limits that are less than the roads they travel. :rolleyes:

Pro tip: a dash cam is a great tool in the event of an accident or someone breaking the rules of the road; it shouldn’t turn you into a ball breaker.

micks_address

StonedRaider wrote: »

Interesting.
What do people who drive for a living think?

i don't drive for a living but i know a fair few people who are lets say less confident on the road, either they are elderly or might be learning or have issues that make driving more difficult for them. Should those people be banned from driving because they dont' feel comfortable driving at the top end of the speed limit? Im guessing on that 100km stretch most drivers would be doing 110 if they have a clear road.. it bugs the crap out of me to be stuck behind cyclists where i live its just a fact of life especially during the summer... its not quite the same but id take 65km most days..

i generally try and drive at the speed limit but im amazed at the number of people who drive significantly faster. Its like every time people get on the road its a race to see how fast you can get somewhere.

micks_address

i do have a friend who drives for a living and he's the most relaxed driver i know... he regularly cruises at 100km on the motorway when i hit 120 and leave it there.. he says its just a consequence of knowing he would be in trouble if he gets caught speeding in his work vehicle.. fair play to him... he saves on fuel and maybe it take a few minutes longer to get where he's going but he doesnt seem to be bothered

kadman

You would do better if you reported the speed freaks to the guards, with your dashcam as evidence, That
might actually save a life, speeders included.

I personally dont see the sense in reporting slow careful drivers

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

StonedRaider wrote: »

All done long before op. Just wanted opinions.

I didn't ask them to pursue. They made the decision after viewing footage. They advised me.

Ehhh you clearly asked in the OP whether they can be reported it not.

kirving

kadman wrote: »

I personally dont see the sense in reporting slow careful drivers

And on this end of the spectrum, some people think that doing 60km/h on a motorway is acceptable and perfectly safe.

The "Progress" section of the driving test is a de facto way of marking someone on their confidence behind the wheel. It's an attempt to put some parameters around what is often a personality trait, without saying as such.

You won't be marked down for driving below the limit necessarily. Part of my test was on an unmarked country road with blind corners, and an 80km/h limit. I was lucky to get over 40 I'd say and got no marks for progress.

On the wide 50km/h N road on another part of my test, I kept up with other traffic, above the limit, and while the tester mentioned this at the end, I got no marks for speeding either.

The RSA fail to mention this time and again, but there is much more to safe driving than speed, or indeed keeping up to the posted speed limit.

colm_mcm

Some amount of high horses in this thread!

It’s a limit not a target? - move over Grandad, I’ve places to go today.

Creamy Goodness

Also cause I'm curious; the time to do a 2.5 mile stretch at 65km/hr is 3 minutes, 43 seconds, doing the same 2.5 mile stretch at 100km/hr is 2 minutes, 25 seconds. A whole whopping 1 minute and 18 seconds*.


* this is just a quick calculation, doesn't account for conversion caused due to mixing imperial and metric measurements and assumes you were stuck behind this driver for the full stretch of the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGGfnLBTLdY

StonedRaider

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

I know gardai get a bad rep a lot of the time but Christ they must have patience of a saint to have to put up with this request.

Let's just say I deal with them on a daily basis in work. Something was said casually, and advice was given. Advice was taken.

kadman

My dad is 88 and has been driving for multiples of decades, he has probably covered 100's of thousand s
of miles. And he loves his driving, and maintaining his car. he is a great driver, and performs 100% om motorways all
over the country, as well as all through Dublin city centre, M50 too is a piece of cake for him.

He drove in England for years, and is a qualified PSV holder, and drove buses in London for years
And he likes nothing better than to take a spin out somewhere.

So spare him and folk like him a thought before you report him for basically interrupting your busy hectic schedule.
Our seniors are to be repected, not run off the road by others, because in their years they expect a less hectic daily routine.

After all, thats where we all are heading for.

I am 65 and into classic cars and motorbikes, and have been for years, would you like to see me ripping along
at over 110 mph on a bike, like I did in my youth, now at 65, or would you prefer I dawdle:p:p

StonedRaider

kadman wrote: »

My dad is 88 and has been driving for multiples of decades, he has probably covered 100's of thousand s
of miles. And he loves his driving, and maintaining his car. he is a great driver, and performs 100% om motorways all
over the country, as well as all through Dublin city centre, M50 too is a piece of cake for him.

He drove in England for years, and is a qualified PSV holder, and drove buses in London for years
And he likes nothing better than to take a spin out somewhere.

So spare him and folk like him a thought before you report him for basically interrupting your busy hectic schedule.
Our seniors are to be repected, not run off the road by others, because in their years they expect a less hectic daily routine.

After all, thats where we all are heading for.

I am 65 and into classic cars and motorbikes, and have been for years, would you like to see me ripping along
at over 110 mph on a bike, like I did in my youth, now at 65, or would you prefer I dawdle:p:p

65 and motorbikes? Do you pull wheelies mister?
I have a friend, similar age to yourself and rides a green Kawasaki 900 or a 1000cc.. and still pulls wheelies away from the lights:D

kadman

StonedRaider wrote: »

65 and motorbikes? Do you pull wheelies mister?
I have a friend, similar age to yourself and rides a green Kawasaki 900 or a 1000cc.. and still pulls wheelies away from the lights:D

Nuff said , you should have reported him to the guards, with your dashcam, as a responsible citizen:)

_Brian

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

You called the Gardathey responded and you made a statement all within 13 minutes of your OP?

:rolleyes:

If you had already called the Gardahen why didn't you mention that in your OP?

I highly doubt the Gardaill caution anyone. There's a number of possible reasons that they might have been been driving slowly. A spare tyre might be one of them.

I can imagine the guard having a good snigger and equating OP to Victor Meldrew or some other moaney busybody

Isambard

it's annoying but they are entitled to do whatever speed they want up to the limit. I'd hope they may move over when they get a chance and let people past. (forlorn hope usually)

cpoh1

kadman wrote: »

My dad is 88 and has been driving for multiples of decades, he has probably covered 100's of thousand s
of miles. And he loves his driving, and maintaining his car. he is a great driver, and performs 100% om motorways all
over the country, as well as all through Dublin city centre, M50 too is a piece of cake for him.

He drove in England for years, and is a qualified PSV holder, and drove buses in London for years
And he likes nothing better than to take a spin out somewhere.

So spare him and folk like him a thought before you report him for basically interrupting your busy hectic schedule.
Our seniors are to be repected, not run off the road by others, because in their years they expect a less hectic daily routine.

After all, thats where we all are heading for.

I am 65 and into classic cars and motorbikes, and have been for years, would you like to see me ripping along
at over 110 mph on a bike, like I did in my youth, now at 65, or would you prefer I dawdle:p:p

I'm a 100% behind the sentiment and the potential impact of old people having their independence taken from them when their car is gone. Had to do it recently with my own grandmother who has loads of experience, wits about her and can see fine but was just a liability on the road the way she was in traffic slow moving etc. and it was terrible.

However sometimes you have to take the emotion out of it. If someone is incapable of driving above 60-70kph due to nerves/comfort levels in perfect conditions on clear straight 100kph roads you would have to question their capabilities and suitability to be on the road.

Sure its only a few mins delay (over small distances) but can lead to huge tailbacks and indirectly lead to stupid decisions from others. Very easy to say overtake but what about when there are 10-15 cars behind? Theres a reason not making progress is an offence.

Not sure getting the cam footage to a garda is appropriate either however.

kadman

cpoh1 wrote: »

I'm a 100% behind the sentiment and the potential impact of old people having their independence taken from them when their car is gone. Had to do it recently with my own grandmother who has loads of experience, wits about her and can see fine but was just a liability on the road the way she was in traffic slow moving etc. and it was terrible.

However sometimes you have to take the emotion out of it. If someone is incapable of driving above 60-70kph due to nerves/comfort levels in perfect conditions on clear straight 100kph roads you would have to question their capabilities and suitability to be on the road.

Sure its only a few mins delay (over small distances) but can lead to huge tailbacks and indirectly lead to stupid decisions from others. Very easy to say overtake but what about when there are 10-15 cars behind? Theres a reason not making progress is an offence.

Not sure getting the cam footage to a garda is appropriate either however.

Fair point.
But dashcams do not automatically make us all Traffic Corp members

chrisd2019

StonedRaider wrote: »

Long 2.5mile stretch of road, 100km speed limit. Drivers pull out onto this stretch and then sit at 65-70kmh. Good road conditions and visibility, no hazards, no cyclist/pedestrians etc.

Can they be reported for driving without due care with dashcam footage?

I know a couple of friends and family that have failed their driving tests due to being marked down 5,6 or even 7 points due to 'not making sufficient progress'(actual quote from rsa testers).

Is this question one in the Garda Traffic Section application process aptitude test?

Wishbone Ash

cpoh1 wrote: »

.... Theres a reason not making progress is an offence. ...

Please tell us more about this offence.

tphase

StonedRaider wrote: »

Long 2.5mile stretch of road, 100km speed limit. Drivers pull out onto this stretch and then sit at 65-70kmh. Good road conditions and visibility, no hazards, no cyclist/pedestrians etc.

Can they be reported for driving without due care with dashcam footage?

I know a couple of friends and family that have failed their driving tests due to being marked down 5,6 or even 7 points due to 'not making sufficient progress'(actual quote from rsa testers).

doesn't happen often but you can be done for driving too slowly



https://www.mayonews.ie/news/5900-tractor-driver-banned-for-driving-too-slowly

hoodie6029

StonedRaider wrote: »

Long 2.5mile stretch of road, 100km speed limit. Drivers pull out onto this stretch and then sit at 65-70kmh. Good road conditions and visibility, no hazards, no cyclist/pedestrians etc.

Can they be reported for driving without due care with dashcam footage?

I know a couple of friends and family that have failed their driving tests due to being marked down 5,6 or even 7 points due to 'not making sufficient progress'(actual quote from rsa testers).

Driving without 'due care and attention' is a catch all offence that this would come under. A farmer causing a 5km tailback in Mayo with this tractor towing a digger at about 20kph was convicted under it. He wouldn't keep over and let the traffic pass.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html#:~:text=It%20is%20an%20offence%20to%20drive%20in%20a%20public%20place,and%20%E2%82%AC120%20in%20court.

StonedRaider

kadman wrote: »

Nuff said , you should have reported him to the guards, with your dashcam, as a responsible citizen:)

kadman wrote: »

Fair point.
But dashcams do not automatically make us all Traffic Corp members

Assumption is the mother of all fcukups.
What I caught on cam was a close call that I witnessed. I was not late, not speeding and the slow driver didn't bother me a bit(and also wasn't elderly). It was a female driver and at a guess mid 30's. Same driver also went on
doing 65-70kmh on a 100kmh limit dual carriageway in the right hand lane. But hey, it's not a target isn't it so I guess all's well and dandy.
I also have footage of an accident in the city between a cyclist and pedestrian, but that's for another day.

tphase

StonedRaider wrote: »

Same driver also went on doing 65-70kmh on a 100kmh limit dual carriageway in the right hand lane.

that's a penalty point offence on motorway, should be a similar one for dual carriageways

But hey, it's not a target isn't it so I guess all's well and dandy.

yep - that's the standard lazy argument thrown out on boards to justify selfish and inconsiderate driving

Austmcc

The RSA site is down for me at the mo, but disregarding any feelings and belief systems around speed limits and sticking to them, and how the actual driving test is marked, penalty points can be awarded for driving too slowly.

I believe, from memory the example is doing 80kph or less in a 120kph zone.

So yes, it's a ticketable offence, but I've never seen it enforced.

Edit: I see it states less than 90 on the outside lane of the motorway, but doesn't address other roads.

Isambard

Austmcc wrote: »

The RSA site is down for me at the mo, but disregarding any feelings and belief systems around speed limits and sticking to them, and how the actual driving test is marked, penalty points can be awarded for driving too slowly.

I believe, from memory the example is doing 80kph or less in a 120kph zone.

So yes, it's a ticketable offence, but I've never seen it enforced.

Edit: I see it states less than 90 on the outside lane of the motorway, but doesn't address other roads.

It's my belief there are no minimum speed limits in Ireland. There is no offence of driving too slowly. I'll need to see the Law quoted before I'll believe you

tphase

Isambard wrote: »

It's my belief there are no minimum speed limits in Ireland. There is no offence of driving too slowly. I'll need to see the Law quoted before I'll believe you

it's my belief that there are minimum speed limits on a motorway (50kph?) and I believe there is a specific offence of driving at 90kph or less on the outside lane of a motorway but otherwise I believe you are correct, there are no minimum speed limits or a specific offence of driving too slowing.


However there is an offence of careless driving (driving without due care and attention) which would cover driving at an inappropriate speed such that it impedes traffic or causes an obstruction. If the slow driver was acting deliberately and thereby causing a dangerous situation, they can be arrested for dangerous driving. The fact that they are driving at under the speed limit would not be a defence.



"In a prosecution for an offence under this section or section 52, it is not a defence to show that the speed at which the accused person was driving was not in excess of a speed limit applying in relation to the vehicle or the road, whichever is the lower, under Part 2 of the Road Traffic Act 2004."


It's all in here

https://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/RevisedActs/WithAnnotations/HTML/EN_ACT_1961_0024.htm

tphase

this is from the AA UK website but it's a useful description of what constitutes careless driving

"In the jargon, you’re guilty of a careless driving offence if you drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place.
- Driving without due care and attention means driving in a way that falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver.
- Driving without reasonable consideration for other persons requires them to be inconvenienced by your driving."

https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/driving-without-due-care-and-attention

Isambard

tphase wrote: »

it's my belief that there are minimum speed limits on a motorway (50kph?) and I believe there is a specific offence of driving at 90kph or less on the outside lane of a motorway but otherwise I believe you are correct, there are no minimum speed limits or a specific offence of driving too slowing.


However there is an offence of careless driving (driving without due care and attention) which would cover driving at an inappropriate speed such that it impedes traffic or causes an obstruction. If the slow driver was acting deliberately and thereby causing a dangerous situation, they can be arrested for dangerous driving. The fact that they are driving at under the speed limit would not be a defence.



"In a prosecution for an offence under this section or section 52, it is not a defence to show that the speed at which the accused person was driving was not in excess of a speed limit applying in relation to the vehicle or the road, whichever is the lower, under Part 2 of the Road Traffic Act 2004."


It's all in here

https://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/RevisedActs/WithAnnotations/HTML/EN_ACT_1961_0024.htm

the minimum speed on the motorway is , I beleive,actually the designed speed. Thus the vehicle has to capable of doing the marked limit but doesn't have to actually do it. (Otherwise it would be an offence to move in a jam).

The motorway outside lane minimum I have never heard of (except in relation to vehicles with prescribed speed limits of less than 90 in Law being banned from the out side lane . Thus a Coach may be the outside lane but a truck may not.

tphase

Isambard wrote: »

the minimum speed on the motorway is , I beleive,actually the designed speed. Thus the vehicle has to capable of doing the marked limit but doesn't have to actually do it. (Otherwise it would be an offence to move in a jam).

The motorway outside lane minimum I have never heard of (except in relation to vehicles with prescribed speed limits of less than 90 in Law being banned from the out side lane . Thus a Coach may be the outside lane but a truck may not.

not sure I entirely understand your post but you seem to have conflicting beliefs


anyway, the OP's query was not about minimum speed limits rather if slow drivers could be reported for driving without due care and attention (with dashcam footage). They could although in the specific instance described, I doubt the Gardai would take any action unless there was evidence of deliberate/dangerous obstruction

Isambard

tphase wrote: »

not sure I entirely understand your post but you seem to have conflicting beliefs


anyway, the OP's query was not about minimum speed limits rather if slow drivers could be reported for driving without due care and attention (with dashcam footage). They could although in the specific instance described, I doubt the Gardai would take any action unless there was evidence of deliberate/dangerous obstruction

It's quite straightforward.

1) Only vehicles capable of doing a certain speed are permitted on the motorway. They are not required to maintain this speed , just be capable of it.

2) certain vehicles are limited as to their maximum speed by Law. Those whose legal maximum speed is at or below a certain level are not permitted to use the outside lane on a three lane. There is no minimum speed limit in the third lane