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Irish Times article about DeChambeau

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭ badabing106


    He hit two drives over 400 yards today. 423 yards on the first :D, 407 on 17th


  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭ paddythere


    He hit two drives over 400 yards today. 423 yards on the first :D, 407 on 17th

    I don't really see that as suspicious though. Certainly doesn't warrant an article like that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭ Golf is my Game


    Thats a shocker. Real gutter journalism there. Not sure if that that writers normal style but didnt think the Irish Time would print that kind of rubbish. He stops just short of suggesting weight itself affect distance. I doubt Bryson is on anything by the way even if Rorys says there no problem getting away with it if you did wan to. He was on track to be a top 10 world player aand earn millions anyway and tournaments and quite possibly majors so it would be the dumbest thing to take even a small risk going on that kind of juice. Gose to gym, puts on muscle, long hitter hits it even further. Big deal. Its not like Jamaicas sprinters where their all clearly at it. Im sure the lawyers checked that before it was published but it still seems wrong that they can write stuff like that. The real new is what are the R&A doing to bring golf back to the game it was where distance makes sense and courses play like they were build.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    I can’t read the linked article but assume it is about steroids, Keopke seemed to hint at it last week.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/did-brooks-koepka-just-suggest-bryson-dechambeau-steroids%3famp


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭ tobsey


    That article is bang on the money. The No Laying Up podcast quoted it and agreed. There is no other sport in the world where putting on 3 stone in 6 months and suddenly being the best at that sport (albeit it over a short timeframe so far) where it wouldn’t be at least questioned. That’s all the article says, it didn’t state he has done anything wrong, but that it’s reasonable to ask the question. Golf is known for being lax on doping, and there aren’t many sports where someone could transform their body to that extent and see an improvement in performance where there wouldn’t be questions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭ DH2K9


    Malachy Clerkin discusses this himself on the Tackling Sport podcast with Peter Lawrie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiJEuCrbiSU&t=4s

    He is simply asking why isn't anybody asking questions which I don't think is "slanderous" or "gutter journalism".

    As tobsey mentioned above, his article was also discussed on the No Laying Up podcast and they agreed with the point that he should at the very least be asked whether he has been drug tested since his return. Not unreasonable.

    As Rory McIlroy says himself - https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/36774868


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,811 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    tobsey wrote: »
    That article is bang on the money. The No Laying Up podcast quoted it and agreed. There is no other sport in the world where putting on 3 stone in 6 months and suddenly being the best at that sport (albeit it over a short timeframe so far) where it wouldn’t be at least questioned. That’s all the article says, it didn’t state he has done anything wrong, but that it’s reasonable to ask the question. Golf is known for being lax on doping, and there aren’t many sports where someone could transform their body to that extent and see an improvement in performance where there wouldn’t be questions.

    He hasn't put on 3 stone in 6 months, where did you read that?


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    He hasn't put on 3 stone in 6 months, where did you read that?

    You seem to be right, it’s closer to eight months and just under 3 stone. Some articles say he gained 20 pounds during the 3 month golf hiatus alone, and 40 since September when the PGA tour starts and the golfers give their stats, most if not all put his current weight at around 240lbs. Even if the articles/poster aren’t precise about the timescale/weight, I think most people get the gist of the debate, huge weight gain - short time frame.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/sports/golf/bryson-dechambeau-weight.amp.html

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/heavy.com/sports/2020/06/bryson-dechambeau-workout-diet-weight-gain-how/amp/

    While you don’t have to be an athlete to pile on 3 stone of extra weight during that time frame, adding 3 stone of muscle/maintaining an athletic physic while working out must be incredibly difficult.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    paddythere wrote: »
    Has anyone read this article in the Irish Times last week after DeChambeau's victory? Seems almost slanderous to me. Definitely out of order in my opinion.

    Has anyone got any thoughts on it?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/tipping-point-dechambeau-s-transformation-raises-questions-but-who-will-ask-them-1.4296716

    Author is fully aware of what is appropriate and not in such an article.
    It’s at this point where the libel laws insist that it is made clear that there is no suggestion that DeChambeau has done anything untoward in gaining all this bulk. His social channels have been all over his transformation from the start, posting footage of his daily gym sessions and so on. Every second reference to him on TV broadcasts seems to mention protein shakes and a revolutionary gym routine and all that jazz. Until we hear otherwise, that must all be taken in good faith.


  • Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭ SeeMoreBut


    If he has or hasn't taken a supplement in general USA don't give a care about drugs unless it hurts them. Just look at the punishment for taking stuff in baseball etc. Where if a Chinese got taken something they will scream for long bans. They still pick Gatlin to run when they could ban him


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,754 ✭✭✭ bren2001


    I don't see how any of the article is out of order. Bryson has put on a crazy amount of muscle in a short amount of time. Questions should be asked of Bryson and what testing has been done. He may well be innocent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    SeeMoreBut wrote: »
    If he has or hasn't taken a supplement in general USA don't give a care about drugs unless it hurts them. Just look at the punishment for taking stuff in baseball etc. Where if a Chinese got taken something they will scream for long bans. They still pick Gatlin to run when they could ban him

    That’s the thing, I think it would hurt the golf brand if he or anyone else tested positive considering the importance of driving distance. VJ had some trouble a few years ago and there was some commentary about DJs absence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    Harrington was on the Golf weekly podcast last week or the week before. He said Bryson always had the speed just he never used it. Mentioned him hitting drives with 195mph ball speed at the open last year. Was an interesting listen.


    He has not put on 3 or 4 stone of muscle either. He is in no way lean.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    etxp wrote: »
    Harrington was on the Golf weekly podcast last week or the week before. He said Bryson always had the speed just he never used it. Mentioned him hitting drives with 195mph ball speed at the open last year. Was an interesting listen.


    He has not put on 3 or 4 stone of muscle either. He is in no way lean.

    The most commonly quoted figure is 20lbs of muscle, that’s still a hell of a lot. He’s not exactly flabby either.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.menshealth.com/fitness/amp32890755/bryson-dechambeau-body-transformation-muscle-strength/

    Personally, Keopke’s comment is the most compelling. I always think the most insightful opinion comes from within a sport, team mates and peers, they know what it takes to operate at that level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ Rippeditup


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The most commonly quoted figure is 20lbs of muscle, that’s still a hell of a lot. He’s not exactly flabby either.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.menshealth.com/fitness/amp32890755/bryson-dechambeau-body-transformation-muscle-strength/

    Personally, Keopke’s comment is the most compelling. I always think the most insightful opinion comes from within a sport, team mates and peers, they know what it takes to operate at that level.

    Agreed, at an elite level the guys know what it takes to move the dial... The weight and muscle is do-able (unlike some in here have said) I have seen it with training but you will lose mobility and coordination doing it so fast as he would have had to eliminate long cardio (very hard walking around a golf course) and be in the gym huge amounts which in turn would take away from practice time and you cant just hit balls after heavy gym sessions as its likely to cause injury..

    The thing is the speed is one thing, there is loads of guys who will build up speed, its the accuracy and how it has not really affected other parts of his game that seems strange.. Golf is demanding on back/hips/legs with so much twisting and turning ontop of heavy heavy lifting its a recipie for injury at this pace ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭ A Shaved Duck?


    bren2001 wrote: »
    I don't see how any of the article is out of order. Bryson has put on a crazy amount of muscle in a short amount of time. Questions should be asked of Bryson and what testing has been done. He may well be innocent.

    I think just the small bit of the article below is out of line, fine the Journo has a bee in his bonnet butthe use of language to infer he on is on the juice but not actually say it is pretty cowardly.

    "DeChambeau is an interesting enough in other ways, especially given his recent, eh transformation. He has always come across as a bit of a tosser. It’s just that now, he’s a massive one."


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,754 ✭✭✭ bren2001


    I think just the small bit of the article below is out of line, fine the Journo has a bee in his bonnet butthe use of language to infer he on is on the juice but not actually say it is pretty cowardly.

    "DeChambeau is an interesting enough in other ways, especially given his recent, eh transformation. He has always come across as a bit of a tosser. It’s just that now, he’s a massive one."

    His point isn't that Bryson is on steroids, it's that questions have not been asked. He cannot state Bryson is on steroids otherwise he'd be sued. We have pretty strict libel laws.

    The sentence you've quoted is out of line all right. I agree with him but still...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭ A Shaved Duck?


    bren2001 wrote: »
    His point isn't that Bryson is on steroids, it's that questions have not been asked. He cannot state Bryson is on steroids otherwise he'd be sued. We have pretty strict libel laws.

    The sentence you've quoted is out of line all right. I agree with him but still...

    Yeah to be fair its clear something could be going on, article just seems petty to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,523 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Author is fully aware of what is appropriate and not in such an article.

    Yeah, but when you have to put something like that in your article its obvious what the point of your article is...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    Thats a shocker. Real gutter journalism there. Not sure if that that writers normal style but didnt think the Irish Time would print that kind of rubbish. He stops just short of suggesting weight itself affect distance. I doubt Bryson is on anything by the way even if Rorys says there no problem getting away with it if you did wan to. He was on track to be a top 10 world player aand earn millions anyway and tournaments and quite possibly majors so it would be the dumbest thing to take even a small risk going on that kind of juice. Gose to gym, puts on muscle, long hitter hits it even further. Big deal. Its not like Jamaicas sprinters where their all clearly at it. Im sure the lawyers checked that before it was published but it still seems wrong that they can write stuff like that. The real new is what are the R&A doing to bring golf back to the game it was where distance makes sense and courses play like they were build.

    Saying they someone was top 10 and earning millions, is absolutely no reason to believe that they're not tempted to use Peds.
    There have been many world top 10 performers that have been Busted for Peds.
    The risk to "getting caught" is minuscule when you consider that there was only 5 out of competition drug test in 2019 and none in competition test.
    Remember the whole debacle that was the Zika virus and top players not wanting to play. I wonder would it have anything to do with heightened chance of getting blood tested.
    Interesting enough that a lot of the same players are playing in a hot bed of covid 19 ( a virus that could potentially kill them) at the moment.
    Interestingly enough you mention the Jamaica sprinters "saying what about them sure they're all at it" Do I belive that a small island with the same population as ourselves could be that genetically gifted, no absolutely not, and yes they have a ****e testing system, but also have had sprinters test positive. Golf has also a ****e testing system. And yet you infer that there no problem in golf. Maybe if they actually tested more then they might actually catch more.
    Of course this doesn't mean golf has a ped issue, but let's not be fooled into believeing that the potential to use Peds is not there. Equally to belive that the PGA want to protect their image.

    It also has to be remembered that the money there sprinters would have won is peanuts in comparison to what golfers can win.
    There will always be temptation to cheat. Whether that's through Peds, or moving a bit of sand with your club in the bunker, to the many guys out there playing that want to "mind" their handicap


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    Rippeditup wrote: »
    Agreed, at an elite level the guys know what it takes to move the dial... The weight and muscle is do-able (unlike some in here have said) I have seen it with training but you will lose mobility and coordination doing it so fast as he would have had to eliminate long cardio (very hard walking around a golf course) and be in the gym huge amounts which in turn would take away from practice time and you cant just hit balls after heavy gym sessions as its likely to cause injury..

    The thing is the speed is one thing, there is loads of guys who will build up speed, its the accuracy and how it has not really affected other parts of his game that seems strange.. Golf is demanding on back/hips/legs with so much twisting and turning ontop of heavy heavy lifting its a recipie for injury at this pace ...


    The weight is for sure do-able, but that weight is not all muscle. I would say it is at least 40% fat. I've listened to a good podcast on this from Mike Carroll (Fit for Golf) I would tend to agree with his logic. But then again I could be wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭ Golf is my Game


    For me theres nothing to answer. He has put on muscle no doubt. But you can just see that he has put on fat too. You see young footballer do it too early in their careers when they make County as they try to bulk up to mix with the stronger lads. And they do it through the winter. Koepka actually looks more muscly but he came to prominence like this rather than us having seen much of him without those big biceps and shoulders but nobody asks it about him. It's just we seen Dechambeau change. It's a do about nothing and still say very bad journalism to be putting the boot on like that even if it's cleverly written and checked by lawyers to be able to squirm out of actually causing him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,754 ✭✭✭ bren2001


    For me theres nothing to answer. He has put on muscle no doubt. But you can just see that he has put on fat too. You see young footballer do it too early in their careers when they make County as they try to bulk up to mix with the stronger lads. And they do it through the winter. Koepka actually looks more muscly but he came to prominence like this rather than us having seen much of him without those big biceps and shoulders but nobody asks it about him. It's just we seen Dechambeau change. It's a do about nothing and still say very bad journalism to be putting the boot on like that even if it's cleverly written and checked by lawyers to be able to squirm out of actually causing him.

    PEDs dont stop people from increasing their fat content. His diet wasn't particularly clean for the weight gain so you'd expect a decent amount of fat to be put on alongside the muscle. It is no way indicative of whether he did or did not use steroids.

    While I'm suspicious of Bryson, I think the PGA have more questions to answer than Bryson i.e. how many times has he, or other golfers e.g. Brookes, Rory, Woods, been tested. That's what I took to be the point from Malachy Clerkins article.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,811 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    bren2001 wrote: »
    PEDs dont stop people from increasing their fat content. His diet wasn't particularly clean for the weight gain so you'd expect a decent amount of fat to be put on alongside the muscle. It is no way indicative of whether he did or did not use steroids.

    While I'm suspicious of Bryson, I think the PGA have more questions to answer than Bryson i.e. how many times has he, or other golfers e.g. Brookes, Rory, Woods, been tested. That's what I took to be the point from Malachy Clerkins article.

    But what sporting organisations will document each drug test? Do the GAA or the Premier league document who has been tested and how many times?


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,754 ✭✭✭ bren2001


    But what sporting organisations will document each drug test? Do the GAA or the Premier league document who has been tested and how many times?

    I'd be very surprised if the GAA, PL, or other organisations don't have records of who has been tested and when they have been tested. The GAA and other international organisation also release the figures in the annual WADA report. The PL records are available under the Freedom of Information Act.

    The PGA Tour doesn't disclose testing numbers. Up until recently, they didn't disclose if a test had been failed e.g. DJ's "voluntary" absence in 2014. I think it's fair to ask questions in relation to their testing policy. They are in no way transparent.

    Malachy was on the Tackling Sport podcast, he had a few numbers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    bren2001 wrote: »
    I'd be very surprised if the GAA, PL, or other organisations don't have records of who has been tested and when they have been tested. The GAA and other international organisation also release the figures in the annual WADA report. The PL records are available under the Freedom of Information Act.

    The PGA Tour doesn't disclose testing numbers. Up until recently, they didn't disclose if a test had been failed e.g. DJ's "voluntary" absence in 2014. I think it's fair to ask questions in relation to their testing policy. They are in no way transparent.

    Malachy was on the Tackling Sport podcast, he had a few numbers.

    Didn't DJ have 3 "Injury's" lasting 3 month, 6 months and 6 months?

    According to USADA they carried out 5 test in 2019 and these were out of competition test. And they don't disclose identity of who they test.
    At a guess if say there's upward of 120 players week in week out playing the pga tour at the highest level. To say that there wasn't even ONE in competition test is a joke.
    We in ireland are lucky to have a number of golfer in the top tier of golf. In 2017 there was only one test carried out and that was in Lpga..

    Anyone who thinks golfers are above taking Peds have their head firmly in the sand


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,754 ✭✭✭ bren2001


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Didn't DJ have 3 "Injury's" lasting 3 month, 6 months and 6 months?

    According to USADA they carried out 5 test in 2019 and these were out of competition test. And they don't disclose identity of who they test.
    At a guess if say there's upward of 120 players week in week out playing the pga tour at the highest level. To say that there wasn't even ONE in competition test is a joke.
    We in ireland are lucky to have a number of golfer in the top tier of golf. In 2017 there was only one test carried out and that was in Lpga..

    Anyone who thinks golfers are above taking Peds have their head firmly in the sand

    Yeah, that's the figure Malachy had. I didn't know where he got it from so didn't want to quote it.

    Just to contrast this, the GAA had 149 tests in 2018. An amateur organisation should not be out testing the PGA tour. I think it's fair to ask questions of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Yeah, that's the figure Malachy had. I didn't know where he got it from so didn't want to quote it.

    Just to contrast this, the GAA had 149 tests in 2018. An amateur organisation should not be out testing the PGA tour. I think it's fair to ask questions of them.

    I take your point re the Gaa, however the fact that it's an amateur organisation should have very little bearing on the amount of tests.
    As the Gaa get government funding and players get tax credits its only right and proper that they should be tested. Even if they are ONLY tested in competition.

    I'm not for a minute suggesting that golf has a ped problem, but agree 100% with you that if something doesn't look right, certainly question should be asked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    Ceepo wrote: »
    I take your point re the Gaa, however the fact that it's an amateur organisation should have very little bearing on the amount of tests.
    As the Gaa get government funding and players get tax credits its only right and proper that they should be tested. Even if they are ONLY tested in competition.

    I'm not for a minute suggesting that golf has a ped problem, but agree 100% with you that if something doesn't look right, certainly question should be asked.

    The mere whiff of PED’s would be enormously damaging to the PGA/R&A brand, the fact that one of the top players has hinted at it will set off alarm bells I would think. The distance the players are hitting the ball now is causing a big problem for the tours, Nicklaus spoke about it again last night, steroid use would really frighten them as more players may see the benefits of bulking up to hit the ball monstrous lengths. I suppose it was only a matter of time. When you think back on many of the more sensational doping cases, Michelle De Bruin being a good example, the sudden improvements in performance were followed by less than subtle hints by fellow competitors that something wasn’t right, the change in performance and body transformation was too sudden.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭ Ceepo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The mere whiff of PED’s would be enormously damaging to the PGA/R&A brand, the fact that one of the top players has hinted at it will set off alarm bells I would think. The distance the players are hitting the ball now is causing a big problem for the tours, Nicklaus spoke about it again last night, steroid use would really frighten them as more players may see the benefits of bulking up to hit the ball monstrous lengths. I suppose it was only a matter of time. When you think back on many of the more sensational doping cases, Michelle De Bruin being a good example, the sudden improvements in performance were followed by less than subtle hints by fellow competitors that something wasn’t right, the change in performance and body transformation was too sudden.

    But I wonder if the whiff you actually damage that brand. I don't think tennis suffered to much long term when Kournikova was Busted.
    There is no doubt that as we speak young up and coming golfers are in the gym trying to bulk up after seeing the results that Bryson has had even if he doesn't win every tournament.
    You also have to remember that even when people do take Peds only a very few of them get caught even when they are tested. Remember Michelle was never caught doping, as was the most famous of the all Lance.
    It's well known that only the stupid or the ones that can't afford the "good" doctors get caught.
    For all the flaws with testing it does catch a few but you have to test in the first place.
    American sport is rife with Peds, just look at Baseball, football, ice hockey, athletics, cycling swimming, ufc, boxing, never mind the bodybuilders etc that frequent the gyms . Are we nieve enough to believe with all the money and prestige that comes with golf that there isn't a temptation.....


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