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Petrol v diesel cars

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135

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    #62
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,386 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The op said xc 40, that's 40k, not a chance I'd be spending that on buying a petrol or diesel....

    Yes if your budget is 20k or thereabouts, you're not going to throw on 15 k to go electric. Bit if your budget is already electric price range , going petrol or diesel is madness in my opinion... throwing on 60 euro a week on fuel , more servicing and way more to go wrong....

    At least the XC40 is a nice car, the petrol or electric Kona is still a 20k car in terms of fit and finish and market segment.
    Not arguing with you in terms of the benefits if electric, but the costs per kWh of producing a battery have dropped dramatically in the past 5 years, but some manufacturers are limiting demand deliberately by charging crazy prices, Kona is a case in point.


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    #63
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The op said xc 40, that's 40k, not a chance I'd be spending that on buying a petrol or diesel....

    Yes if your budget is 20k or thereabouts, you're not going to throw on 15 k to go electric. Bit if your budget is already electric price range , going petrol or diesel is madness in my opinion... throwing on 60 euro a week on fuel , more servicing and way more to go wrong....

    When you spec a Tesla they go through the trouble of providing an estimate of this savings calculation for you on the webpage.


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    #64
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    At least the XC40 is a nice car, the petrol or electric Kona is still a 20k car in terms of fit and finish and market segment,

    Whatever about the finish of the Kona, the electric range/performance is not that of a 20k car.


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    #65
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Electricity as a fuel is virtually free compared to petrol or diesel... workplace charging often free. Put in a night meter at home and its what? 9c kwh?

    You have to factor in Vat and ground rent and PSO levies which puts it closer to 25cent ,so
    7.4 kw x 8 hours, assuming electric car owners charge 5 days a week I'm not seeing any saving over diesel.


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    #66
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Look at the likes of this, stunning cars ... what would they he here ? 50k ?

    https://www.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/

    https://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/motorsdrive/2020/06/07/news/safety-first-as-polestar-2-edges-closer-to-euro-launch-1923475/

    290 mile range, over 400bhp , 0-100 in 4.7 they represent excellent value for money if you plan Is to blow 40-50k on some petrol or diesel with the acceleration of a push bike in comparison


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    #67
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    mp3guy wrote: »
    Whatever about the finish of the Kona, the electric range/performance is not that of a 20k car.

    It's a 20 k car with a bad grill, electric motor isn't worth a premium over Petrol. If you want electric cars to sell they have to be in the same price range, no ones going to step down from a n A4 to an i20 with big wheels


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    #68
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Look at the likes of this, stunning cars ... what would they he here ? 50k ?

    https://www.polestar.com/uk/polestar-2/

    Closer to 75k for what looks like a Peugeot 508


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    #69
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,386 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    mp3guy wrote: »
    Whatever about the finish of the Kona, the electric range/performance is not that of a 20k car.

    Yes but you’re paying an extra €25k for that. State (I.e taxpayers) covering €5k of that and also not charging VRT - as well as employees (quite legally) dodging BIK.


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    #70
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    You have to factor in Vat and ground rent and PSO levies which puts it closer to 25cent ,so
    7.4 kw x 8 hours, assuming electric car owners charge 5 days a week I'm not seeing any saving over diesel.

    Not true, just work it out, even with worst case rural rates including VAT. Day/night standing charge is only about €60 extra per year, the PSO is unchanged. You can easily get an 8.5c night rate from most providers. Charging 7.4 kw every night for 8 hours is a lot of energy, call it 50kw a day, which in an efficient EV is probably around 300km. So for a year of that five days a week it's 52x5x300 = 78,000km. Efficient diesel you'll probably get 5l/100km, so 3,900 litres of diesel is around €4,500 at €1.15/l.

    The electricity would cost you 0.085*7.4*8*52*5 = €1,300, plus €60 increase standing charge, that's €1,360. Less than a third of the price. Plus you'll probably make savings running other stuff on night rate too (dishwashers, washing machine), > €3,000 a year saved. Drive less? Save less, but still save.
    RandomViewer wrote: »
    It's a 20 k car with a bad grill, electric motor isn't worth a premium over Petrol. If you want electric cars to sell they have to be in the same price range, no ones going to step down from a n A4 to an i20 with big wheels

    I love the grill. Don't want an A4 personally.


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    #71
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    mp3guy wrote: »
    Not true, just work it out, even with worst case rural rates including VAT. Day/night standing charge is only about €60 extra per year, the PSO is unchanged. You can easily get an 8.5c night rate from most providers. Charging 7.4 kw every night for 8 hours is a lot of energy, call it 50kw a day, which in an efficient EV is probably around 300km. So for a year of that five days a week it's 52x5x300 = 78,000km. Efficient diesel you'll probably get 5l/100km, so 3,900 litres of diesel is around €4,500 at €1.15/l.

    The electricity would cost you 0.085*7.4*8*52*5 = €1,300, plus €60 increase standing charge, that's €1,360. Less than a third of the price. Plus you'll probably make savings running other stuff on night rate too (dishwashers, washing machine), > €3,000 a year saved. Drive less? Save less, but still save.



    I love the grill. Don't want an A4 personally.

    You are trying to sell asupermini at a large saloon price, I used the A4 as it costs roughly the same, could have used a Tiguan or a crew cab Hilux to put things in perspective.


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    #72
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    You are trying to sell asupermini at a large saloon price, I used the A4 as it costs roughly the same, could have used a Tiguan or a crew cab Hilux to put things in perspective.

    I'm not selling anything, just pointing out people have different preferences for cars and value various attributes differently.


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    #73
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,386 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    You would have loved this €30k car from back in the day
    43-D1-F10-A-A3-D8-44-E8-9-E16-F0-E18-F5-B135-F.jpg


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    #74
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    You would have loved this €30k car from back in the day

    Absolute perfection :p


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    #75
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    You would have loved this €30k car from back in the day

    I think my push mower has bigger wheels than that yoke.


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    #76
    Philb76
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    As far as the electric kona is concerned i know someone who has a brand new one says the claimed range is absolute bull**** and regrets getting one and is looking to get rid in the very near future


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    #77
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Philb76 wrote: »
    As far as the electric kona is concerned i know someone who has a brand new one says the claimed range is absolute bull**** and regrets getting one and is looking to get rid in the very near future

    the internet is full of website and reviews which tell the real range. If your going out to pay 40k and you don’t do research then you are an idiot

    Nothing wrong with the car....


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    #78
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    You have to factor in Vat and ground rent and PSO levies which puts it closer to 25cent ,so
    7.4 kw x 8 hours, assuming electric car owners charge 5 days a week I'm not seeing any saving over diesel.

    Where are you buying your electricity from? If your paying that your electricity company is absolutely fleecing you


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    #79
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Electric cars = 0% BIK
    Happy days.....


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    #80
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    Philb76 wrote: »
    As far as the electric kona is concerned i know someone who has a brand new one says the claimed range is absolute bull**** and regrets getting one and is looking to get rid in the very near future

    Sounds like manufacturer MPG for ICE cars tbh. Search online for any EV and you'll find some people getting worse than manufacturer range and others getting better. Nothing new or unique to any car really.


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    #81
    Philb76
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    mp3guy wrote: »
    Sounds like manufacturer MPG for ICE cars tbh. Search online for any EV and you'll find some people getting worse than manufacturer range and others getting better. Nothing new or unique to any car really.

    He knew the claimed range would be off by a bit just not that much getting around 190km driving it very easy


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    #82
    Philb76
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Electric cars = 0% BIK
    Happy days.....

    Well that's the end of that argument then


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    #83
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    Philb76 wrote: »
    He knew the claimed range would be off by a bit just not that much getting around 190km driving it very easy

    I'd love to know more details. Sounds like a 39kW model. Surely he can go to the dealer? Winter test here https://youtu.be/MN2cjKhkCqg, 90kmh 330km, 120kmh 250km at less than -10c.

    190 is less than half the quoted range, and if that's in Ireland's climate the last few months, not overloading/towing/roof rack there's something fishy.


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    #84
    Philb76
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    mp3guy wrote: »
    I'd love to know more details. Sounds like a 39kW model. Surely he can go to the dealer? Winter test here https://youtu.be/MN2cjKhkCqg, 90kmh 330km, 120kmh 250km at less than -10c.

    190 is less than half the quoted range, and if that's in Ireland's climate the last few months, not overloading/towing/roof rack there's something fishy.

    That's wot he's saying to be honest don't know which variant he has maybe someone on the forum has one who might be able to give their real world experience


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    #85
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Philb76 wrote: »
    That's wot he's saying to be honest don't know which variant he has maybe someone on the forum has one who might be able to give their real world experience


    Well he is talking s**t.

    I have a 36kWh battery and I can get 190km no problem in it. He has nearly double the battery. Is he charging the car? or leaving half the battery empty

    I was right the first time, he is an idiot


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    #86
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    mp3guy wrote: »
    I'd love to know more details. Sounds like a 39kW model. Surely he can go to the dealer? Winter test here https://youtu.be/MN2cjKhkCqg, 90kmh 330km, 120kmh 250km at less than -10c.

    190 is less than half the quoted range, and if that's in Ireland's climate the last few months, not overloading/towing/roof rack there's something fishy.


    Did they bring out the 39kWh Kona yet? I thought they only brought out the eNiro in 39kWh battery?


    I think a few porkies are been told somewhere along the line


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    #87
    Captcha
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭Captcha


    walshtipp wrote: »
    In my opinion diesel is still the best high mileage option.
    As for hybrids, their efficiency depends on type of driving. They are brilliant around town but on the motorway they are not all that efficient.

    A3 Audi 1.4 TFSI is quick with 150bhp and I get 60+ mpg on motorway, maybe 25 - 40 around the city... not sure if its a hybrid though, point is petrol can be very good on motorway


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    #88
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Captcha wrote: »
    A3 Audi 1.4 TFSI is quick with 150bhp and I get 60+ mpg on motorway, maybe 25 - 40 around the city... not sure if its a hybrid though, point is petrol can be very good on motorway


    That's a straight petrol, they do have a PHEV version of the A3 but weight is the issue, carrying around a large battery plus additional engine means you need to buy for your requirements. If your doing loads of motorway driving every day is doesn't make sense to be dragging around a petrol engine, fuel plus an electric motor plus battery.


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    #89
    Philb76
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Philb76


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Well he is talking s**t.

    I have a 36kWh battery and I can get 190km no problem in it. He has nearly double the battery. Is he charging the car? or leaving half the battery empty

    I was right the first time, he is an idiot

    Yeah your right hes a lying idiot who doesn't know how to charge his own electric car


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    #90
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Where are you buying your electricity from? If your paying that your electricity company is absolutely fleecing you

    I've been on to them, ordinary sized house, all appliances less than 3 years old, LED bulbs in all the light sockets, rarely use the oil heating, back boiler in stove, Bill averages 275-300 every 2 months.


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    #91
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    It's a 20 k car with a bad grill, electric motor isn't worth a premium over Petrol. If you want electric cars to sell they have to be in the same price range, no ones going to step down from a n A4 to an i20 with big wheels

    can't think of any car that size for 20 k bar a dacia duster?


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