Gardai find naked man whipped on crucifix in Dublin club, naked audience watch

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-who-denies-running-club-where-naked-man-on-crucifix-was-whipped-to-appeal-decision-striking-out-bid-to-join-legal-proceedings-39366679.html

The Circuit Court has been asked "to direct that Hilda Conway forfeit her tenancy of a basement night club at 127 Lower Baggot Street, Dublin, which [it is] alleged had been used as a brothel and for staging Sadomasochistic practices.

Conway, of Claremont Road, Sandymount, Dublin, denies having been associated with the running of such activities in the club"

when Garda Inspector Martin Mooney had led a raid on the club he had noticed a man, tied to a large crucifix, who was having his naked bum whipped in front of customers oddly dressed with few or no clothes on and wearing masks and carrying whips.

Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

KiKi III

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-who-denies-running-club-where-naked-man-on-crucifix-was-whipped-to-appeal-decision-striking-out-bid-to-join-legal-proceedings-39366679.html

The Circuit Court has been asked "to direct that Hilda Conway forfeit her tenancy of a basement night club at 127 Lower Baggot Street, Dublin, which he alleged had been used as a brothel and for staging Sadomasochistic practices.

Conway, of Claremont Road, Sandymount, Dublin, denies having been associated with the running of such activities in the club"



Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

I saw this headline earlier on and I wondered how long til I saw it here

KiKi III

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

St Patrick's Cathedral would be quite a venue.

Ray Donovan

For some reason this sprung straight to mind....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOKaqBfhcIE

Day Lewin

Really this court case was about a landlord misusing a tenancy.

but anyone who runs these kind of events should be doing so with great care.

They don't really raid every lap-dancing cub!

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

Is it just brothels you think should be illegal or prostitution in general?

Get Real

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

I agree. But the article is mostly about the landlord not wanting that on his premises. And as a landlord, he has the choice not to.

Particularly if it's an unregulated area, issues with a liquor licence, lack of insurance cover. It all comes back on the landlord.

There should be regulations allowing it if people want it. But it's not the landlords fault. He wants them out. What if there was a fire in the place at 4am?

The Inspector probably couldn't give a fiddler's what went on in there, but had to have a look if it was reported. And what he saw is of relevance to the landlords application.

KiKi III

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Is it just brothels you think should be illegal or prostitution in general?

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

DrSerious3

KiKi III wrote: »

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

It's a bit like the war on drugs. We have tried making it illegal, doesn't work. And also, if you're pro-choice then who are you to tell people what to do with their bodies?

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

Why shouldn't two people be able to agree to sex for money?

mouldybiscuits

KiKi III wrote: »

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

The thing about making prostitution legal is that then prostitutes would not be afraid to come and ask the authorities for help when they are robbed or worse. The push for legality is for the health and safety of sex workers. And since it happens regardless of whether it is legal or not there isn't really any positives in criminalizing it.

KiKi III

DrSerious3 wrote: »

It's a bit like the war on drugs. We have tried making it illegal, doesn't work. And also, if you're pro-choice then who are you to tell people what to do with their bodies?

The whole thing with sex trafficking is that the women aren’t choosing, dumb dumb.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

Yes, I believe trafficking is still a big issue in Holland, it would be interesting to know whether or not trafficking increases when prostitution is legalised. If trafficking neither rises nor falls, there's probably still an argument in favour of legalisation, because at least you can trace these women (to a greater extent), and health services can visit them for STI checks and the like.

Get Real wrote: »

I agree. But the article is mostly about the landlord not wanting that on his premises. And as a landlord, he has the choice not to.

For sure, but any of us who ordinarily live in Dublin will know spots that are brothels. There is one very well known one in Temple Bar. I'm convinced the Guards know about these if an ordinary punter does, but perhaps they take the view that there's no point in sending these further underground. I'm not sure.

One eyed Jack

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

The problem was it wasn’t above board. I know the headline and even the article reads like a something from a Russ Meyer movie, but the seriousness of the issue is somewhat lost in the comedy aspect.

I was going to suggest it was rather tongue in cheek, but... actually, no, I’m not one bit ashamed of an awful pun :pac:

Day Lewin

This club event was not about prostitution.

It was a Hallowe'en party with some BDSM activities - which are not illegal.

Sex taking place on the premises by paying customers, that is.

Spanish Eyes

A bit sleazy, but each to their own. Are there laws against masochism in a private place, I doubt it. Long as someone is willing and the participants are not trafficked or injured/killed, well join the dots.

The issue is the LL from what I see. It is certainly not a one off, but is largely hidden.

Day Lewin

Here's a thread by an Irish sex worker who isn't the slightest bit trafficked, and makes a living

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737

jam_mac_jam

DrSerious3 wrote: »

It's a bit like the war on drugs. We have tried making it illegal, doesn't work. And also, if you're pro-choice then who are you to tell people what to do with their bodies?

With drugs you are only harming yourself not using someone as a slave. Which does happen.

Maybe it should be decriminalised, however I don't think it should be legalized like it is in Amsterdam or Germany.

DrSerious3

KiKi III wrote: »

The whole thing with sex trafficking is that the women aren’t choosing, dumb dumb.

Pro-choice, as long as you agree with the choice they are making.

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

The whole thing with sex trafficking is that the women aren’t choosing, dumb dumb.

Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A bit sleazy, but each to their own. Are there laws against masochism in a private place,

I'm open to correction here but I think consent is a defence to assault, but there is a legal case which says it is not a defence to assault causing harm.

Day Lewin wrote: »

Here's a thread by an Irish sex worker who isn't the slightest bit trafficked, and makes a living

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737

I wonder sometimes when I see sex-workers speak about how much they enjoy their work, whether they're in the business themselves as proprietors or managers.

KiKi III

DrSerious3 wrote: »

Pro-choice, as long as you agree with the choice they are making.

Being trafficked into Ireland and forced into prostitution is not a choice.

KiKi III

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?

If you don’t know the difference between a massage and a hand job, I’m not sure I can help you with that.

DrSerious3

KiKi III wrote: »

Being trafficked into Ireland and forced into prostitution is not a choice.

I will quote a poster above as they have said it well 'Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?'

If someone obtains a license to engage in sex work and Gardai establish that they are not trafficked and they find it better to earn 100 an euro doing that rather than 12 an hour doing menial or physical work, why would you think you have the right to stop them? Very middle class thinking, especially if you consider yourself pro-choice.

bazza1

Hey Hilda....any chance of a refund on me membership?

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

If you don’t know the difference between a massage and a hand job, I’m not sure I can help you with that.

That's a very disingenuous answer. I know the difference the question was what's the difference in paying for either of them.

KiKi III

DrSerious3 wrote: »

I will quote a poster above as they have said it well 'Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?'

If someone obtains a license to engage in sex work and Gardai establish that they are not trafficked and they find it better to earn 100 an euro doing that rather than 12 an hour doing menial or physical work, why would you think you have the right to stop them? Very middle class thinking, especially if you consider yourself pro-choice.

You’re kind of obsessed with my opinion on abortion, an entirely different conversation, and it comes across a bit weird buddy.

I’m theoretically fine with an adult, consenting woman choosing prostitution. However, I’ve read and heard many harrowing accounts from women who were trafficked into Ireland, women in Direct Provision who felt forced into it by economic need to buy things for their kids, and addicts who were taken advantage of for their next hit.

Most prostitutes seem to be women in very vulnerable positions and I think as a society we should find ways to support them without selling their bodies, which can be corrosive to their mental and physical health.

Dante7

KiKi III wrote: »

In answer to your question, no, I don’t think brothels should be made legal. I used to think as you did; regulate it and tax it.

I thought it would be safer for women and lead to less sex trafficking. But looking at other countries where this has happened, there has been no corresponding reduction in sex trafficking to them.

I was the same. I used to be of the belief that whatever consenting adults did in privacy was their own business, and if someone wanted to sell their body for sex, then as long as it was voluntary, it was fine. But then someone said to me that in nearly every case of prostitution there has been an element of coercion along the way and that got me thinking differently about it. Now I don't believe that anyone has the right to pay someone else to use their body for sex.

suicide_circus

It's got to a stage in this country where a man can't even mount a crucifix to have his arse leathered in front of a roomful of his closest friends

Auguste Comte

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Why shouldn't two people be able to agree to sex for money?

An awful lot of the people doing it are seriously vulnerable. Of course certain types of people enjoy their pleasures even more if is subjects others to humiliation. That's the basis of a lot, but most certainly not all, of it.

Day Lewin

KiKi III wrote: »

Being trafficked into Ireland and forced into prostitution is not a choice.

Nor is being trafficked into Ireland and "employed" to clean hotels
or clean offices by dead of night
or manicure nails
or pick mushrooms

These jobs are full of foreign "workers" who can't produce a passport or any documents - or a payslip -

Yet I don't see the self-righteous demanding that these jobs be made illegal.
Even though some of them are far more like "slave labour" than a self-employed sex worker running her own (risky) business.

Samuel T. Cogley

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm open to correction here but I think consent is a defence to assault, but there is a legal case which says it is not a defence to assault causing harm.

I think you'd enjoy R v Brown.

Geuze

KiKi III wrote: »

Prostitution in general. It is almost impossible to disentangle it from sex trafficking.

Prostitution was legal in Ireland until a few years ago.

Leg End Reject

Prostitution will always exist, and yes, a lot of women who chose it are vulnerable. At least if it was legal it could be subject to inspection and the women involved offered help to leave, or more likely to seek help independently. Prosecuting people for the sale and/or procurement of sex is as effective as prohibition was.


Trafficking is a separate issue, it happens whether prostitution is legal or not and requires greater international cooperation. It's abhorrent that children and adults are traded like commodities into a life of misery and entrapment.

Man with broke phone

I think it should be legalized and ran by a government department. The CEOs 27 of them will be paid the market rate of 3500000 a year to ensure we have the best men and (chortle) women overseeing it and making sure theres no trafficking involved.
All punters must be Hilary supporters though to appease the feminists. Sure the prostitutes will get a pension able job for life and it would nearly have the ability to pay for itself but would run at a catastrophic cost to the state.
The prostitutes can threaten strike each year on the weekend between the schoolteacher and bus driver strike.
Everyone's a winner.

Samuel T. Cogley

Man with broke phone wrote: »

I think it should be legalized and ran by a government department. The CEOs 27 of them will be paid the market rate of 3500000 a year to ensure we have the best men and (chortle) women overseeing it and making sure theres no trafficking involved.
All punters must be Hilary supporters though to appease the feminists. Sure the prostitutes will get a pension able job for life and it would nearly have the ability to pay for itself but would run at a catastrophic cost to the state.
The prostitutes can threaten strike each year on the weekend between the schoolteacher and bus driver strike.
Everyone's a winner.

Can we call the Union Whorsa?

trashcan

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's got to a stage in this country where a man can't even mount a crucifix to have his arse leathered in front of a roomful of his closest friends

Those Christians, eh. What are they like ?

NSAman

.
when Garda Inspector Martin Mooney had led a raid on the club he had noticed a man, tied to a large crucifix, who was having his naked bum whipped in front of customers oddly dressed with few or no clothes on and wearing masks and carrying whips.

Well fair play to them.

Obviously they were playing safe and were not American tourists..;)

I went to a "posh" private school, and one of my classmates ended up being a prostitute, a madame, and got herself a damned lot of publicity over the years. Had been adopted by a middle class couple. She went into sex work as a result of having been sexually abused by her father since she was very young. Though innately intelligent, she couldn't focus on school studies, and I was put sitting next to her to be "a good influence". They didn't know why she was disruptive, what was happening. I told my mother about her almost daily, that she was showing me dreadful physical damage. Mum was in later years very upset that she didn't act upon what I had been telling her, thought she just had a personality problem as was making all of it up. Indeed she did have a serious personality disorder, which resulted from the abuse since a very young age. It made her very "at home" to have sex with anyone, and soon realised it could be a form of living. It was what she knew, what she had become good at. I am highly uncomfortable with people, especially men, saying people choose freely to become sex workers. There is often a horrific background to their personality formation.

I sadly knew of another person who was raped by her father, but she dealt with it differently. When she found her marriage breaking down (her husband had separate issues himself), she took her own life. Her father had been honoured by Pope JPII, Pope Francis removed it the minute the man appeared in court and admitted abusing boys he taught when he was a young man.

Auguste Comte

[Deleted User] wrote: »

An awful lot of the people doing it are seriously vulnerable. Of course certain types of people enjoy their pleasures even more if is subjects others to humiliation. That's the basis of a lot, but most certainly not all, of it.

I agree with you, but, surely the way to deal with the issues is to legalise and regulate the business, ie, take control away from the criminal pimps and do whatever is possible to give protection and rights to the sex workers.

Prohibition just puts the power into the hands of the criminals and I don't think that workers welfare is too high on their priority list.

Man with broke phone

There was a time I went into peoples houses and businesses and unblocked their toilets for a living. I wasn't trafficked or abused I just did it for the cash. I dont feel guilty. Most of them were nice and didnt make me feel threatened.

KiKi III

Auguste Comte wrote: »

I agree with you, but, surely the way to deal with the issues is to legalise and regulate the business, ie, take control away from the criminal pimps and do whatever is possible to give protection and rights to the sex workers.

Prohibition just puts the power into the hands of the criminals and I don't think that workers welfare is too high on their priority list.

There’s no evidence from countries where prostitution is legal that this works, or results in less exploitation.

Spanish Eyes

This kind of underbelly of society whilst legal (AFAIK) could be titillation for many who have never even heard of it.

My view is that as long as the participants are willing and not trafficked all good. Each to their own. A bit like the orgies that are now called Swingers.

LOL. Gwan now.

Auguste Comte

KiKi III wrote: »

There’s no evidence from countries where prostitution is legal that this works, or results in less exploitation.

You skipped my last question???

KiKi III

Auguste Comte wrote: »

You skipped my last question???

You didn’t ask a question.

Spanish Eyes

Deleted User wrote: »

I went to a "posh" private school, and one of my classmates ended up being a prostitute, a madame, and got herself a damned lot of publicity over the years. Had been adopted by a middle class couple. She went into sex work as a result of having been sexually abused by her father since she was very young. Though innately intelligent, she couldn't focus on school studies, and I was put sitting next to her to be "a good influence". They didn't know why she was disruptive, what was happening. I told my mother about her almost daily, that she was showing me dreadful physical damage. Mum was in later years very upset that she didn't act upon what I had been telling her, thought she just had a personality problem as was making all of it up. Indeed she did have a serious personality disorder, which resulted from the abuse since a very young age. It made her very "at home" to have sex with anyone, and soon realised it could be a form of living. It was what she knew, what she had become good at. I am highly uncomfortable with people, especially men, saying people choose freely to become sex workers. There is often a horrific background to their personality formation.

I sadly knew of another person who was raped by her father, but she dealt with it differently. When she found her marriage breaking down (her husband had separate issues himself), she took her own life. Her father had been honoured by Pope JPII, Pope Francis removed it the minute the man appeared in court and admitted abusing boys he taught when he was a young man.

Jayzus is there any part of life you don't know about!

Medical, social, etc. Good on you.

Retired Librarians know every facet of life. :P

Man with broke phone

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Jayzus is there any part of life you don't know about!

Medical, social, etc. Good on you.

Retired Librarians know every facet of life. :P

Retired librarians read alot. Some even try write their own fiction.

Tea drinker

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-who-denies-running-club-where-naked-man-on-crucifix-was-whipped-to-appeal-decision-striking-out-bid-to-join-legal-proceedings-39366679.html

The Circuit Court has been asked "to direct that Hilda Conway forfeit her tenancy of a basement night club at 127 Lower Baggot Street, Dublin, which [it is] alleged had been used as a brothel and for staging Sadomasochistic practices.

Conway, of Claremont Road, Sandymount, Dublin, denies having been associated with the running of such activities in the club"



Is it not time that we just allow these kinds of facilities to carry-on in trade, all above board, paying their taxes and giving enjoyment to the people? Honestly, what harm are they doing?

Garda find naked man whipped on crucifix in Dublin club, naked audience watch
But there was uproar in the thread where women in Ukraine were getting paid to have babies / suurrogacy. But sure whip them in clubs tis grand!

Auguste Comte

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Sex trafficking is already illegal, why do you object two people concenting to do a sex for money agreement?

What is the difference between me paying someone to give me a massage, or a hand job?

KiKi III wrote: »

If you don’t know the difference between a massage and a hand job, I’m not sure I can help you with that.

Auguste Comte wrote: »

That's a very disingenuous answer. I know the difference the question was what's the difference in paying for either of them.

Auguste Comte wrote: »

You skipped my last question???

KiKi III wrote: »

You didn’t ask a question.

I did.

Day Lewin

Tea drinker wrote: »

Garda find naked man whipped on crucifix in Dublin club, naked audience watch
But there was uproar in the thread where women in Ukraine were getting paid to have babies / suurrogacy. But sure whip them in clubs tis grand!

Some women like it - but I can assure you, a very large percentage of those who like having their bums whipped are male.

The person on the Andrew's Cross at the time (it wasn't a crucifix, for point of accuracy) - was a bloke.