Polish Presidential election

Bonniedog

Poll taken at midnight Polish time shows Duda the conservative candidate with 50.8% to the pro EU liberal Tzraskowski's 49.2%.

This is adjusted poll which takes into account first results and Duda's lead is twice what it was in initial IPOS exit poll.

Margin of error in latest is 1%. Duda is calling it for himself and looks to be right.

Brian Hartman

Well let's hope Duda has won.

riffmongous

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Well let's hope Duda has won.

Why? I doubt we'll see a proper investigation into the recent allegations of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church in Poland while he is in charge.

ILoveYourVibes

Duda Keeps pardoning convicted pedophiles and murderers...even when teh courts recommend against it. He is bent as ****.

It was very close tho....poland is divided.

Brian Hartman

Looks like he's going to win. I hope so, Poland is one of my favourite countries.

ILoveYourVibes

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Looks like he's going to win. I hope so, Poland is one of my favourite countries.

He wants to take it out of the EU ...

Brian Hartman

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He wants to take it out of the EU ...

Is that a bad thing?

Bonniedog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He wants to take it out of the EU ...

The brat

Perhaps if the EU stopped tried to force its policies on immigration and other areas on Poland it might be more popular.

PiS represents the main political faction that originated in the Solidarity union which overthrew the communists.

It is probably the most left wing government economically in the EU and has majority of working class and trade union support.

It has been criticised over its judicial reforms which were put in train in order to deal with the fall out from the previous corrupt Civic Platform government which appointed many of the current bench who are clearly opposed to PiS and have attempted to use their position for political purposes.

Richard Hillman

The EU have been trying meddle far too much with Polish internal issues. The need to start backing the fup off and let the Poles run their country the way they see fit. The Poles will never give up their homeland or their sovereignty. They have fought for far too long to let it go with a few strokes of a pen.

spurious

A Polish friend tonight described it as putting Poland back 40 years.

sameoldname

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The EU have been trying meddle far too much with Polish internal issues. The need to start backing the fup off and let the Poles run their country the way they see fit. The Poles will never give up their homeland or their sovereignty. They have fought for far too long to let it go with a few strokes of a pen.

Can we take back the €12.4 billion the rest of us in the EU give them every year? I'm sure their government will be willing to give that up so they can make gay people feel a little bit less welcome in their own country.

ILoveYourVibes

Brian Hartman wrote: »

Is that a bad thing?

Well if you want to visit poland yeah. He doesn't like the irish either.

strandroad

Bonniedog wrote: »

PiS represents the main political faction that originated in the Solidarity union which overthrew the communists.purposes.

This is incorrect. Kaczynski brothers were minor players at best, went on to become mortal enemies of Lech Walesa and his faction. When in power PIS appoints actual communist prosecutors to their judiciary panels.

Bonniedog wrote: »

It has been criticised over its judicial reforms which were put in train in order to deal with the fall out from the previous corrupt Civic Platform government which appointed many of the current bench who are clearly opposed to PiS and have attempted to use their position for political purposes.

Court stuffing US style was always a thing on both sides but what sets PIS apart is how they are dismantling the system of checks and balances through unconstitutional moves signed off on by Duda, Orban style. Poland is now heading Russia's way in the human rights department too, with "LGBT free zones" declared by local authorities and Duda targeting LGBT in his campaign specifically, especially as Catholic church sexual abuse scandals slowly come to light. With Trzaskowski now on his heels PIS will only accelerate the takeover, Duda and others would face legal responsibility otherwise. PIS support is largely due to game changing social transfers they directed to the people left behind by the neoliberal rule of Civic Platform (an FG equivalent basically) but inflation and rising costs of living have consumed those now hence the turn in support and the resulting turning up of the religious nationalism to make up for it.

Bonniedog

The fall from grace of Walesa was due to his being exposed as a secret police informer.

strandroad

Bonniedog wrote: »

The fall from grace of Walesa was due to his being exposed as a secret police informer.

Indeed, and yet it doesn't put the Kaczynskis nowhere near making a difference back in Solidarity times, it's a fable they perpetuated though. The story of Smolensk air crash is one of the most fascinating subjects in recent political history BTW.

PiS is effectively Sinn Fein economics with DUP morals and Russian/Hungarian playbook in hand.

ILoveYourVibes

Thing is with Duda ..he is stupid enough to take poland out of the eu.

The_Kew_Tour

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well if you want to visit poland yeah. He doesn't like the irish either.

What did he say about Ireland?

Bonniedog

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Thing is with Duda ..he is stupid enough to take poland out of the eu.

I daresay the Poles know a bit more about unelected foreign entities (the Stalinists and Nazis) trying to tell them what to do, than you might.

They are perfectly happy to participate in economic co-operation but refuse to be told - against the wishes of the Polish people - what their domestic legislation on immigration, transgenderism and so on ought to be.

strandroad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Thing is with Duda ..he is stupid enough to take poland out of the eu.

Duda is a patsy, a presentable face but an otherwise unintelligent man with no political backing or camp of his own. If Kaczynski deems him useless he's toast, but he's convenient to keep for a fall guy since it's his signature and not Kaczynski's underwriting all the unconstitutional legislation throughout.

It's Kaczynski who wants Poland out of the EU so that his power grab can be completed unhindered but that's where he is actually firmly at odds with the public opinion in Poland; the EU membership support is at 80-90% levels for obvious reasons. Trzaskowski although quite conservative by Irish standards is firmly pro EU and his result must be a huge wake up call for Kaczynski.

Eric Cartman

Speaking to a polish friend Duda appears to be a spend spend spend socialist however with a nationalist twist trying to keep Poland distinctly polish and without multiculturalism, which I can respect, however being willing to leave the EU to achieve it is madness and this man may just do that.

On the other side we have a pro EU candidate who is sadly not strong enough on migration for the polish people, however is more about seeing better investment in Poland, more FDI and trading co-operation , which I completely agree with.

I can see why its so close , its a very conflicting pool.

Poland should stand firm against multiculturalism and its ills. Poland is one of the last countries in Europe thats almost completely free of the scourge of islamist activity, however embracing the EU trading block and FDI is the way to sustain finances.

Bonniedog

strandroad wrote: »

It's Kaczynski who wants Poland out of the EU so that his power grab can be completed unhindered but that's where he is actually firmly at odds with the public opinion in Poland; the EU membership support is at 80-90% levels for obvious reasons.

PiS has no plans to leave the EU. It is the EU pressurising them over DOMESTIC policy that is creating the fissure.

PiS attitude to the upper echelons of judiciary is quite justifiable given that the Supreme Court is batting for the EU against its own elected government! It is Supreme Court that is pushing the scaremongering regarding Poland daring to defy the Commission.

Poles do not want to be cut adrift from rest of Europe. If only because of their fear of Putin.

Of all people in Europe they realise the need for co-operation between democracies, but also the need to protect national sovereignty.


Irish "elite" is so abject in its grovelling to Brussels that it even ignored the verdict of electorate in two referendums and had them re-run!

If Duda ever said anything negative about Ireland he was talking about these slaves, not the rest of us.

biko

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He wants to take it out of the EU ...

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Thing is with Duda ..he is stupid enough to take poland out of the eu.

Keep chanting, maybe it'll happen.

biko

spurious wrote: »

A Polish friend tonight described it as putting Poland back 40 years.

How old is your friend? Do they remember the 1980s Poland?
Solidarność was created 1980.

Cordell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Speaking to a polish friend Duda appears to be a spend spend spend socialist

Yes, in the eastern Europe the populist socially conservative types are left leaning or even hard left economically.

biko

Poles voted with almost record turnout, reported at 68.12% by the commission.

According to the latest results, Mr Duda received 51.21% of the vote, while opposition candidate Rafal Trzaskowski got 48.79% of the vote.
The difference in votes between the candidates amounted to around 500,000.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0713/1152909-poland-election/

suicide_circus

According to wiki his annual salary is €68,000

Or to put it another way, 13% of Joe Duffy's salary.

Annasopra

Devastating for Polish LGBT people

Bonniedog

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Devastating for Polish LGBT people

Gay people have full civic and legal rights in Poland.

They do have an issue with attempts to introduce transgenderism into school courses.

Rather a different thing. Anyway, vox populi, and so on

Cordell

No, they don't, they can't marry, that will be a civic right they don't have.
Vox populi when used to refuse rights for a minority with no cost whatsoever for the majority is not democracy anymore, it's the tyranny of majority.

Seamai

Bonniedog wrote: »

Gay people have full civic and legal rights in Poland.

They do have an issue with attempts to introduce transgenderism into school courses.

Rather a different thing. Anyway, vox populi, and so on

Well they don't have the right to marry for a start. I've been there many times as my partner is part Polish (but never lived there) and attitudes towards towards the LGBT community are still back in the dark ages for many Poles

Annasopra

Bonniedog wrote: »

Gay people have full civic and legal rights in Poland.

You're just making things up...


His campaign reeked of homophobia

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Gay people have full civic and legal rights in Poland.

They do have an issue with attempts to introduce transgenderism into school courses.

Rather a different thing. Anyway, vox populi, and so on

Would you say the Nazi regimes treatment of minorities was "vox populi and so on ". They have an atrocious record on lgbt rights. You just seem to view it as something to be celebrated.

Geuze

Cordell wrote: »

No, they don't, they can't marry, that will be a civic right they don't have.
Vox populi when used to refuse rights for a minority with no cost whatsoever for the majority is not democracy anymore, it's the tyranny of majority.

The Irish people have decided to change the definition of marriage to include same-sex people.

If another country decides to not do this, I don't see any problem.

Das Reich

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Devastating for Polish LGBT people

Not many over there.

Bonniedog

Not everyone agrees that gay marriage is a "right."

strandroad

Seamai wrote: »

Well they don't have the right to marry for a start. I've been there many times as my partner is part Polish (but never lived there) and attitudes towards towards the LGBT community are still back in the dark ages for many Poles

Duda's campaign was on the platform of banishing "LGBT propaganda" i.e. any form of "promotion" including education or anti-bullying workshops in schools. Wondering what happens to Pride or other events now, they were already under assault from nationalists. As in, assaulted physically.

biko

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Devastating for Polish LGBT people

Yes, the majority of Polish people appears to have an issue with LGBT.

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Not everyone agrees that gay marriage is a "right."

Lgbt free zones, increases in attacks against lgbt groups.. Pretty reminiscent of other regimes but you're just gonna play it down.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200711-lgbt-rights-at-heart-of-poland-presidential-election-fight

Cordell

Bonniedog wrote: »

Not everyone agrees that gay marriage is a "right."

That's cool, so they won't marry a gay person, and that is their right.
Denying something to someone else, something that doesn't affect you in any way, well, that shouldn't be a right.

gmisk

Bonniedog wrote: »

Gay people have full civic and legal rights in Poland.

They do have an issue with attempts to introduce transgenderism into school courses.

Rather a different thing. Anyway, vox populi, and so on

Complete and utter BS.

LGBT people are regularly targeted in Poland.
It is not hard to find tonnes of examples of assaults, graffiti, poster campaigns etc.
Massive areas of the country declared as LGBT free zones

Some of his comments on gay people have been horrendous, this victory will likely make life for LGBT people in Poland even more difficult.

And people ask why pride exists.....what about straight pride eh right?!? Ffs

The one saving grace I can see is the younger age demographics were not voting for him.

riffmongous

He also wants to make sure gay people are never allowed to adopt

Cordell

Geuze wrote: »

The Irish people have decided to change the definition of marriage to include same-sex people.

If another country decides to not do this, I don't see any problem.

That's a totally different situation.
The Irish Constitution prevented gay marriage as a side effect of being too comprehensive, but that was not the intent, no one was thinking about same sex marriage when it was written.
Putting something in it on purpose to deny some citizens some rights is something totally different, and proper democracy should prevent this.

Bonniedog

Deleted User wrote: »

Lgbt free zones, increases in attacks against lgbt groups.. Pretty reminiscent of other regimes but you're just gonna play it down.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200711-lgbt-rights-at-heart-of-poland-presidential-election-fight

These only become "rights" (which didn't even exist 30 years ago) if population gets to vote on them. Which they don't in lots of place.

Bonniedog

riffmongous wrote: »

He also wants to make sure gay people are never allowed to adopt

Again, another spurious recently invented "right."

gmisk

Bonniedog wrote: »

These only become "rights" (which didn't even exist 30 years ago) if population gets to vote on them. Which they don't in lots of place.

Population get to vote on them?!
You don't need a national vote to give people rights. Ireland had to have a vote the vast majority of other countries don't have to.
E.g. when it came to gay marriage in Australia they held a totally non necessary postal vote which wasnt legally binding.

You also should not have the majority deciding if a minority can or cannot have equal rights imo.

riffmongous

Bonniedog wrote: »

Again, another spurious recently invented "right."

But yet people who are part of a paedo protecting organisation somehow automatically get that right? That's messed up

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

These only become "rights" (which didn't even exist 30 years ago) if population gets to vote on them. Which they don't in lots of place.

What I'm referring to is people getting attacked for being lgbt... They're being violently targeted in Poland... Duda is creating conspiracies about LGBT people to make them targets... So I'd say contrasts with totalitarian regimes is pretty apt.

Here's another one from earlier in the year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN21X2ZA

gmisk

Bonniedog wrote: »

These only become "rights" (which didn't even exist 30 years ago) if population gets to vote on them. Which they don't in lots of place.

Maybe ask yourself why you care so much?
How exactly does a same sex couple having the ability to marry effect you? Maybe you would be happier moving to Poland?

For the record I got married to my husband last year. We should be allowed the same entitlements any other couple has. Civil partnerships have a huge number of differences to full marriage equality. There has been a huge shift in Irish attitudes to LGBT people for a country where the Catholic Church still have such a big hold it is extremely heartening to see, hopefully Poland will have the same change.

The fact that duda won by such a small majority against a candidate who entered the race late, when his party literally controls the media is encouraging

biko

The Polish people have had Duda for 5 years already, and a slight majority choose him again.
This is how democracy works.

Many Polish families have been lifted out of poverty as a result of the government's policies, and, for the first time since the end of communism in 1989, feel there is a party that cares about their needs.
This is especially true in villages and small towns, where President Duda won an absolute majority of votes in the first round of the election two weeks ago.

Cordell

biko wrote: »

The Polish people have had Duda for 5 years already, and a slight majority choose him again.
This is how democracy works.

Yes, this is how it works and how it should work up until that point.
But he needs to be the president of all people, including those who didn't vote for him, including lgbt people, and he should fight for all of them equally. This is how democracy should work. He is not just an elected representative for a small constituency, he's the president of the whole country.

excludedbin

Hitler also took Germany from being an economic basket case to a powerhouse. Doesn't mean he was laudable or should be defended. Brutalising minority groups simply because they're different and are hated shouldn't be something any reasonable person excuses or defends.

Weird how the same people who scream and shout about predominantly Muslim countries' treatment of LGBT people are all too happy to defend the same when it's Europeans doing it.