The challenge in “Supporting Irish businesses”

theballz

Like most (I hope) I have tried to make more of a conscious effort in supporting local Irish businesses since the reopening from lockdown. Places like coffee shops, petrol stations, groceries stores and retail outlets.

However, since making this conscious effort it has been a bit of an eye opener. One thing Irish businesses have failed to do is adapt to change; the people of Ireland have been asked to spend local, however, I am now amazed at how many of these businesses do not accept contactless payment.

I don’t know the logistics or the costing associated to implementing this sort of capability and I can accept that smaller businesses may not be in a position to upgrade systems to offer this functionality. However, larger retailers such as Lifestyle sports do not support contactless - I was amazed to realise this.

Last week, for the first time i went shopping to pick up some sportswear as I return to training post lockdown. I visited lifestyle sports (despite them being a little more expensive than the likes of JD or sportsdirect) - I spent a good 30-40 mins picking out my items and when I got to the till I was told they do not accept contactless (I like many others haven’t carried a wallet in years and use Applepay instead.)

I had no choice but to go to JD sports (UK outlet) who would accept contactless.

We are also being encouraged to stay in Ireland and “stayaction” however, hotels, resorts have since hiked there prices up post Covid. I understand they have operated at a loss the last few months but surely this is not right? There has to be some sort of middle ground. The fact is, flying to Spain for a week is cheaper than 3 nights in Kerry now.

My point here is, businesses need to adapt to change and in the UK (and affair) they look to be doing so, however, in Ireland we are lagging behind here in a big way. I understand there is a stimulus package coming, however, I feel this is more of a cultural thing and the economy/people/businesses will suffer in the long run as a result.

What are your thoughts?

Eric Cartman

The amount ofpeople using contactless phone payments only is miniscule, most still carry a card.

However it would be rare enough for somewhere that takes card to not have contactless at this point as most terminals without it are gone at this stage.

Perhaps it was just that branch of the sports shop ?

Wibbs

One thing I have noticed down the years in business dealings in Ireland is that if times are tough so many raise prices to make as much as they can from the dwindling business, rather than drop prices to create more business. And it can become a thing within some businesses as most within the field will do the same from suppliers on down. I doubt this is an "Irish thing" but I have seen it happen a lot, during the boom, during the crash and here we are again. Personally I always dropped prices or gave more service for the same price to keep and expand business. Though to be fair I could do that as I didn't generally have the outgoings of so many and had no great issue with tightening my belt, rather than keep going as before on more and more credit as so many seem to do.

theballz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The amount ofpeople using contactless phone payments only is miniscule, most still carry a card.

However it would be rare enough for somewhere that takes card to not have contactless at this point as most terminals without it are gone at this stage.

Perhaps it was just that branch of the sports shop ?

Minuscule? There are three million contactless payment transactions made per week in Ireland.

https://irishtechnews.ie/there-are-now-more-than-three-million-contactless-payments-transactions-made-each-week-in-ireland/amp/

Far from minuscule.

Eric Cartman

theballz wrote: »

Minuscule? There are three million contactless payment transactions made per week in Ireland.

https://irishtechnews.ie/there-are-now-more-than-three-million-contactless-payments-transactions-made-each-week-in-ireland/amp/

Far from minuscule.

Never said that was, i said the amount of people exclusively carrying only a phone as a means of payment is miniscule.

theballz

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Never said that was, i said the amount of people exclusively carrying only a phone as a means of payment is miniscule.

Okay fair point. However, I am interested to understand how you have come to that conclusion? I work in e-commerce and I can assure you from the statistics we have, again, far from minuscule and the uptake post covid has been x11.

MrStuffins

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Never said that was, i said the amount of people exclusively carrying only a phone as a means of payment is miniscule.

I think you're wrong here.

Sure, most people carry card but the number just carrying phone now is much bigger than you think

Eric Cartman

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think you're wrong here.

Sure, most people carry card but the number just carrying phone now is much bigger than you think

Pre covid id even feel stupid not carrying atleast 50 in cash in this country. The phone payment is dead handy but cant for the life of me see why carrying a card would be a problem for people. Atleast the card doesnt have a battery that dies...

theballz

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think you're wrong here.

Sure, most people carry card but the number just carrying phone now is much bigger than you think

AIB released numbers on this, interesting public facing read here: https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/banking/aib-data-shows-increase-in-contactless-and-digital-wallet-payments/

“ The data was compiled from over one million debit card transactions between 1st and 12th April - AIB notably increased its contactless card limit at the beginning of April.

Consumers also embraced Apple & Google Pay during the pandemic with average spending up 41% and 45% respectively.

AIB’s data demographically broke down spending habits over the period and interestingly revealed that customers over the age of 45 are spending 31% more using their digital wallets (Apple & Google Pay).

Apple and Google Pay at the same time accounted for one third of all in-store transactions from those under the age of 25, with the average in-store spend from this age group up 24% and 35% for Apple and Google Pay respectively.”

This is it

I can't remember the last time I used cash. Generally use my phone now which is handy, have started leaving my cards at home or in the car, thankfully I was only caught out once which was just a few days ago. Not sure what the issue was but the terminal refused my phone. Thankfully the car was just outside so I was able to grab my card.

I presume they can put through a charge manually using the card number anyway? Handy having Revolut card details on the phone.

I've only come across one local business that was cash only.

theballz

Wibbs wrote: »

One thing I have noticed down the years in business dealings in Ireland is that if times are tough so many raise prices to make as much as they can from the dwindling business, rather than drop prices to create more business. And it can become a thing within some businesses as most within the field will do the same from suppliers on down. I doubt this is an "Irish thing" but I have seen it happen a lot, during the boom, during the crash and here we are again. Personally I always dropped prices or gave more service for the same price to keep and expand business. Though to be fair I could do that as I didn't generally have the outgoings of so many and had no great issue with tightening my belt, rather than keep going as before on more and more credit as so many seem to do.

You’ve hit the nail on the head here too. I work for a US company, when the pandemic came we offered greater flexibility and wrote off more invoices for suffering clients than you’d ever imagine.

The business took the hit and our share price fell through the floor. However, I feel some Irish businesses take a more short sighted approach by uplifting prices. Which damages long term brand loyalty and ultimately hurts businesses in the long run. Our business is back to where it was pre covid and we can’t help but feel that clients appreciated how we supported them through this challenging period.

Conscious that the price uplifting is more prevalent in the SMB space and some businesses have no choice to do such in order to survive. However, the large businesses such as lifestyle sports should be able to adapt and should have done the market research around contactless payment for there customer demographic (60-80% under 35 years of age.)

It’s mind boggling and incredibly concerning.

Wanderer78

i think the banks are in trouble, hence the higher interest rates

The other side of the challenge in supporting local Irish businesses is the attitude of bricks and mortar smartphone shops and tech stores.

I asked to buy a Huawei y6 on display on the shelf in a "smartphone store of a service provider".

Assistant retorted back they had no y6's left in stock.

Then REMOVE IT FROM DISPLAY.

same thing happened me in pc world Jervis street many years ago when I wanted to buy a camcorder on display:

I chose it and the assistant came back from the stock room: the model in display was on display, not for sale.

I don't give a sh|t now for stores like that.

Remove the stuff from display if it cannot be bought.

Sheer window dressing and tbh pure cancerous for customer loyalty.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

The other side of the challenge in supporting local Irish businesses is the attitude of bricks and mortar smartphone shops and tech stores.

I asked to buy a Huawei y6 on display on the shelf in a "smartphone store of a service provider".

Assistant retorted back they had no y6's left in stock.

Then REMOVE IT FROM DISPLAY.

same thing happened me in pc world Jervis street many years ago when I wanted to buy a camcorder on display:

I chose it and the assistant came back from the stock room: the model in display was on display, not for sale.

I don't give a sh|t now for stores like that.

Remove the stuff from display if it cannot be bought.

Sheer window dressing and tbh pure cancerous for customer loyalty.

the world of marketing has little or no interest in your interests

theballz

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the world of marketing has little or no interest in your interests

That’s exactly what marketing is interested in.

dazberry

Deleted User wrote: »

same thing happened me in pc world Jervis street many years ago when I wanted to buy a camcorder on display:

I've had similar experiences at PCWorld, they are dysfunctional at the best of times.

Edgware

Even if hoteliers in Kerry and Galway reduced their prices by 30% most people would find them expensive. Luckily there are some very fine hotels in the less popular counties that offer great value and have plenty of attractions such as leisure centres, golf courses, arts centres to keep people occupied as well as providing fine restaurants etc

Wanderer78

theballz wrote: »

That’s exactly what marketing is interested in.

yup, its about manipulation

suicide_circus

Holidaying in Ireland is very expensive and poor value for money at the best if times. I can imagine now that we all now have no option but to holiday at home that we'll be seeing some nice price gauging.

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote: »

Holidaying in Ireland is very expensive and poor value for money at the best if times. I can imagine now that we all now have no option but to holiday at home that we'll be seeing some nice price gauging.

ryanair are still flying i think?

theballz

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ryanair are still flying i think?

Ryanair are advertising €39 flights to Spain on Newstalk radio. Yet, Newstalk have countless numbers of “experts” on everyday telling people not to travel outside of Ireland.

Again, says a lot.

Wanderer78

theballz wrote: »

Ryanair are advertising €39 flights to Spain on Newstalk radio. Yet, Newstalk have countless numbers of “experts” on everyday telling people not to travel outside of Ireland.

Again, says a lot.

ah shur, marketing is about lying, and ryanairs business model is fcuk everyone, particularly customers, wont stop people going though. sounds like newstalk are getting some good experts on

ra0044

My problem with supporting many " Irish " businesses is the lack of choice in what they offer. Went in to 3 different electronics stores today looking for a couple of things. All 3 stores sold exactly the same products at more or less the same price. They were all either very vanilla middle of the road or way over priced but nothing to justify the extra money.

The sales people looked blank when you mentioned anything that wasn't writte on the side of the box and certainly didn't have a notion of what a buyer would want.

It was the same earlier in the year when we were looking for a kitchen table. The majority of places were selling exactly the same ones within a few euros of each other. Other places wanted huge money for garish over the top nonsense. Ended up buying on line and getting what we wanted delivered.

Wanderer78

ra0044 wrote: »

My problem with supporting many " Irish " businesses is the lack of choice in what they offer. Went in to 3 different electronics stores today looking for a couple of things. All 3 stores sold exactly the same products at more or less the same price. They were all either very vanilla middle of the road or way over priced but nothing to justify the extra money.

The sales people looked blank when you mentioned anything that wasn't writte on the side of the box and certainly didn't have a notion of what a buyer would want.

It was the same earlier in the year when we were looking for a kitchen table. The majority of places were selling exactly the same ones within a few euros of each other. Other places wanted huge money for garish over the top nonsense. Ended up buying on line and getting what we wanted delivered.

retail, most definitely known for looking after its workers, particularly via payment and zero hour contracts!

suicide_circus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ryanair are still flying i think?

government advice is not to travel outside the state unless absolutely necessary

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote: »

government advice is not to travel outside the state unless absolutely necessary

yup, but ryanair are still flying, so people will still go, i know people going in a couple of weeks

theballz

suicide_circus wrote: »

government advice is not to travel outside the state unless absolutely necessary

Government advise is to wear facemasks too. Still don’t see many wearing them.

Advise and enforcing are different things. As long as flights are available people will go.

Geuze

Many Irish SMEs strike me as high cost, high price, high profit.

Some of the high costs are outside their control, e.g. massive rents.

coinop

"What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone"


September 1913 by W.B. Yeats

Ireland has always been a rip-off country. Everyone only looking out for themselves. The cute hoor trying to scam the system out of a few quid was fine when the British were in charge. Nowadays the same mentality persists but we're ripping off our own. The gombeen man trying to squeeze every penny out of Dublin, racking up thousands in expenses that the taxpayer will pick up the tab for. The failed businessman selling out his own community by leasing his hotel to the Direct Provision system for millions of euro, despite the protests of his neighbours. Apologies if I've strayed off topic but stinginess is the worst trait in a person, and the Irish have it in bucket loads. Knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing.

biko

theballz wrote: »

What are your thoughts?

That there is no challenge in supporting local businesses.
By using Applepay only you are making things more difficult than they need to be.

Next time bring a card

Wanderer78

Geuze wrote:

Many Irish SMEs strike me as high cost, high price, high profit.

Sme's are the largest employers of the state, they are the most exposed, particularly during vulnerable times like now, they have very little protection, compared to other sectors such as mnc's, I'd imagine very few have high profits, some of course would

pgj2015

is it that big of a deal for you to take cash out from an ATM? if you want to support Irish business.

Wanderer78

pgj2015 wrote: »

is it that big of a deal for you to take cash out from an ATM? if you want to support Irish business.

oh dont worry, our politicians will be out in force soon trying to encourage us to spend our savings, while a shed load are still out of work and the rest of us wondering if we ll have a job by christmas, theres nothing stopping the government from creating the money and giving it to every citizen to spend, this might just prevent some businesses from going bust. if we dont support sme's, it could have a major negative effect on the rest of the economy as markets dont occur in a vacuum.

Darc19

So the op has an issue in ONE store and then applies that to all irish businesses.

Seriously?

And then goes for the old chestnut and compares a premium hotel in kerry to a high rise overcrowded slum in Spain.

heroics

pgj2015 wrote: »

is it that big of a deal for you to take cash out from an ATM? if you want to support Irish business.

Pretty much. I don’t carry cash anymore. Apple Pay for everything except Tesco as they have the same 50€ limit as contactless so have to bring a card.

Haven’t carried a wallet outside of the weekly shopping in months.

It’s dead easy to get a terminal that allows contactless now. No excuses for businesses not to have them.

lisasimpson

Always carry at least 50 in case card/contactless systems crashes (which can happen) ive seen this twice. Once in aldi last year and people just abondoned shopping as they had no cash.
Also some retail dont help themselves when it comes to customer service. Although its the bigger stores that are guilty of this. Staff talking away while serving you or too busy gossiping to notice you are waiting there to pay for goods. One example stands out years ago. A boots store one sunday clearly the girl had been out the night before with whats was left the night befores makeup still on. Open mouth chewing while talking to someone else. Even had to ask her for a bag for my items which she barely acknowledged.

Wanderer78

heroics wrote: »

Pretty much. I don’t carry cash anymore. Apple Pay for everything except Tesco as they have the same 50€ limit as contactless so have to bring a card.

Haven’t carried a wallet outside of the weekly shopping in months.

It’s dead easy to get a terminal that allows contactless now. No excuses for businesses not to have them.

is there charges on the businesses side?

Wanderer78

lisasimpson wrote: »

Always carry at least 50 in case card/contactless systems crashes (which can happen) ive seen this twice. Once in aldi last year and people just abondoned shopping as they had no cash.
Also some retail dont help themselves when it comes to customer service. Although its the bigger stores that are guilty of this. Staff talking away while serving you or too busy gossiping to notice you are waiting there to pay for goods. One example stands out years ago. A boots store one sunday clearly the girl had been out the night before with whats was left the night befores makeup still on. Open mouth chewing while talking to someone else. Even had to ask her for a bag for my items which she barely acknowledged.

retail is well known for its generous pay and conditions!

pgj2015

heroics wrote: »

Pretty much. I don’t carry cash anymore. Apple Pay for everything except Tesco as they have the same 50€ limit as contactless so have to bring a card.

Haven’t carried a wallet outside of the weekly shopping in months.

It’s dead easy to get a terminal that allows contactless now. No excuses for businesses not to have them.

look you aren't a robot yet, if you can get into the shop im sure you can get to an ATM and use it. it will take you all of 5 seconds, you pass by them multiple times a day no doubt.

pgj2015

pgj2015 wrote: »

look you aren't a robot yet, if you can get into the shop im sure you can get to an ATM and use it. it will take you all of 5 seconds, you pass by them multiple times a day no doubt.

I don’t want to touch an ATM. So if a business doesn’t want to take contactless then they can go whistle, I’ll go elsewhere.

The whole idea of supporting Irish produce and business is just posturing anyway. None of these businesses would look after their own.

pgj2015

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is there charges on the businesses side?

of course there is.I pay 2.75% of card transactions to sum up. im in business and take cash and card. id say around 90% of people pay me with cash.

pgj2015

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I don’t want to touch an ATM.

and do you not touch other things like door handles?

KiKi III

theballz wrote: »

Okay fair point. However, I am interested to understand how you have come to that conclusion? I work in e-commerce and I can assure you from the statistics we have, again, far from minuscule and the uptake post covid has been x11.

I use Apple Pay now and then, but I also carry a wallet as does everyone I know. I've never heard of anyone using their phone alone, as you'd run into immediate problems if your battery died or the contactless reader wasn't working, as happens fairly frequently.

pgj2015

pgj2015 wrote: »

and do you not touch other things like door handles?

I have to touch things like door handles. Ridiculous clutching comparison.

Enough places take contactless to not have to bother with those that don’t.

lisasimpson

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I have to touch things like door handles. Ridiculous clutching comparison.

Enough places take contactless to not have to bother with those that don’t.

You not going to win this arguement. Its not that hard to carry a bank card

heroics

pgj2015 wrote: »

look you aren't a robot yet, if you can get into the shop im sure you can get to an ATM and use it. it will take you all of 5 seconds, you pass by them multiple times a day no doubt.

But why would I bother? So I want something in shop A. Instead of going to shop A directly. now I need to stop at an atm to get cash first. And if it’s anything like the one in the garage here it’s out of order half the time.

I also need to know how much I’m going to spend so I have enough cash.

Much easier to go to shop B that takes contactless.

lisasimpson

lisasimpson wrote: »

You not going to win this arguement. Its not that hard to carry a bank card

There’s no argument to be had, I’m 100% right for me. And like I said there’s enough places taking contactless that I’m not missing anything ignoring the others.

heroics

lisasimpson wrote: »

You not going to win this arguement. Its not that hard to carry a bank card

it’s not that hard for businesses to take contactless

_Kaiser_

I pay by card for pretty much everything. Tap whenever possible to speed things up.

2 issues though.

- It would be nice if the display told you how much "credit" you have left when tapping before you need to enter the PIN again
- I'd use my phone, but PTSB don't support Google Pay. Revolut does though and I use that when in the UK to avoid the higher fees

As for the question of "supporting local businesses". As others have said, I find local retailers generally sell the same limited stock at the same prices (especially in things like tech). Why would I limit myself to what they have in the store room when I could get a better product online for the same or little extra?
Online retail is something Irish stores really need to embrace more - and I don't mean like one or two of the UK chains slapping a .ie domain on their UK (Sterling priced) site.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I pay by card for pretty much everything. Tap whenever possible to speed things up.

2 issues though.

- It would be nice if the display told you how much "credit" you have left when tapping before you need to enter the PIN again
- I'd use my phone, but PTSB don't support Google Pay. Revolut does though and I use that when in the UK to avoid the higher fees

You don’t have to just use Revolut in the UK, you can use it here.

heroics

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I pay by card for pretty much everything. Tap whenever possible to speed things up.

2 issues though.

- It would be nice if the display told you how much "credit" you have left when tapping before you need to enter the PIN again
- I'd use my phone, but PTSB don't support Google Pay. Revolut does though and I use that when in the UK to avoid the higher fees

I’m ptsb and just transfer cash to Revolut and use that all the time on the phone. It’s instant from ptsb to Revolut.