Help - dealing with nasty neighbours

David Hay

Hi all I am just looking for some advise in dealing with nasty neighbours, I have recently purchased a 40 acre block of land and it’s the neighbouring bachelors farmers of this piece of land that are causing me hassle.

I have 20 acres for grazing and 20 kept in for silage, there is a right of way to the 20 acres for grazing that goes through one of these bachelors farmers (In his late 70’s) farmyard, he has recently erected a gate on the lane, which now means I have 2 gates/stops to make before entering my property, I know it’s killing him to see me using ‘his lane’ and he has erected this gate with the intention of causing me hassle, I don’t close the gate after me as I deem it illegal what he has done, he shouts and roars at me and my father for not closing the gate when we meet him on the lane. (Pure abuse ) regarding this neighbour would it just be best to contact my solicitor regarding the gate he put up? Any help or ideas on what we can do with the verbal abuse coming from him? I have refrained from up rooting it with loader at the minute.

I am also a public servant so I feel I am very limited in what I can do (I know what I would love to him hence the username:), I just feel he has been let away with to much, he was even telling my father that he was going to erect a cattle grid on the lane so we could even walk our cattle to the land.

Regarding the second bachelor (late 50’s/early 60’s) farmer we only had one serious run in with him last year on the 20 acre grazing side, last year we had a digger in putting in new gaps, general tidying up on the farm, Etc. my self and my father were putting up a new gate we came storming up our land, all guns blazing he was shouting and roaring at us because the digger has put some bushes on his wire, this was a very hostile situation only we are very reserved and I feel like I let him get away one up on us again and we just .took the abuse from him (we did fence the whole boundary later in the year ) we don’t really have much contact with this individual now but would it possible to take him to court/civil case against him just on the serious threatening abuse we received from him that day ?

The 2 bachelors would be best friends.
PS thanks for taking the time to read all this.

Infernal Racket

Start recording the abuse by phone and on paper. If it's consistent you may have a harassment case to take to the Guards. If he threatens you physical harm go to them immediately.

ganmo

1. Dash cam
2. Notebook in the car to document any events.

Regarding the gate it might not be illegal, it's up to you to challenge that. In order to challenge it you will have to go to court but we have a right of way with a gate that we make the others close it.

Mooooo

They are going to be yer neighbours for years to come yet, obviously stand up for yerselves if need be but taking the higher road can give better dividends in the long run. Check out about the legality of the gate but if it's allowed be there what's the harm closing it? If yer own cattle get out at least it won't be down the road.
Talking things out generally works out better than fcuking matches and paying solicitors .....

893bet

I see two interactions

1) Where your digger threw bushes on his wire which give anyone annoyance

2) Where you won’t close the gate. He hasn’t locked it. It’s his lane. Close the gate.

Cop on with the talk of ridiculous court action. Just my 0.2c

David Hay

Thanks for responses everyone.

My issue with the gate is, there was never a gate on the lane before, what’s happens if one of children want to build on that farm ?

The gate was only erected once I bought the land.

Dinzee Conlee

David Hay wrote: »

Thanks for responses everyone.

My issue with the gate is, there was never a gate on the lane before, what’s happens if one of children want to build on that farm ?

The gate was only erected once I bought the land.

My understanding is if one of your kids want to build, they would have to have the right of way changed from agri to residential - so you would need permission from your neighbours in that case regardless of gate or not...

Not 100%, but you might want to check it out...

selectamatic

The lane is his though so he's allowed put gates on it and you should close them after you go through them if that's what he wants. You have a right of way and that is all. I can't imagine he'd be allowed put a cattle grid on it though.

He is obviously put out you bought the land but shur that's life just be courteous and carry on. Even give them a wave if ya see them on the road or while driving. Eventually things will calm and they'll get fed up of trying to hold the grudge.

hurikane

I’d be taking the side of the two aul boys. You sound like you’re making life difficult for them and now you want to take legal action against them? You need to take a look at what you’re doing.

Spanish Eyes

The Field. over and out.

Infernal Racket

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The Field. over and out.

Tis my field

ganmo

David Hay wrote: »

Thanks for responses everyone.

My issue with the gate is, there was never a gate on the lane before, what’s happens if one of children want to build on that farm ?

The gate was only erected once I bought the land.

Theres houses in behind our gate. It gets opened and closed everytime

K.G.

Without knowing the details.you were in the wrong if you threw bushes on his wire and if this is a right of way through his land he is entitled to put up the gate and you are bound to close it each time.obviously i dont know the details but buying land acessed through a right of way is very risky.

David Hay

K.G. wrote: »

Without knowing the details.you were in the wrong if you threw bushes on his wire and if this is a right of way through his land he is entitled to put up the gate and you are bound to close it each time.obviously i dont know the details but buying land acessed through a right of way is very risky.

Regarding the bushes, I had a contractor in doing the job, they were not put on his wire by me (which was rectified after).

Interesting regarding the gate, but in my view it was put up there in badness, ie when previous owner had it - no gate, I buy it and then a gate is put up.

Who2

Did they ever own the land or were they under bidders on it, or was it family land or anything?

Mooooo

David Hay wrote: »

Regarding the bushes, I had a contractor in doing the job, they were not put on his wire by me (which was rectified after).

Interesting regarding the gate, but in my view it was put up there in badness, ie when previous owner had it - no gate, I buy it and then a gate is put up.

Could simply be the case he knew the previous owners and doesn't know you? Stand back and talk it out cos there'll be nothing but stress if he don't.

patsy_mccabe

I pulled back from buying a place once because there was only access via right of way. The solicitor I got to check it out tried to convince me the right of way would be no bother. I then told him about 6 different disputes I knew of within a mile radius of me, not all of which made it into a solicitors office. They are a fooking disaster. Only solicitors benefit from them.

K.G.

David Hay wrote: »

Regarding the bushes, I had a contractor in doing the job, they were not put on his wire by me (which was rectified after).

Interesting regarding the gate, but in my view it was put up there in badness, ie when previous owner had it - no gate, I buy it and then a gate is put up.

Ah yeah but he was working for you so it was still your .responsibility. my own view is mind your business and have little or nothing to do with close the gate and move on.you have to accept that buying land accessd through a right of way is not the same as direct acess and probably was reflected in the price.

selectamatic

David Hay wrote: »

Interesting regarding the gate, but in my view it was put up there in badness, ie when previous owner had it - no gate, I buy it and then a gate is put up.

You can be sure it was put up out of spite but the question is do ya want to play schoolyard bullsh1t with an elderly bachelor farmer who has all the time in the world for pettiness or do ya want to just get on with your own life.

It's not a case of letting him win there's never any winners out of this sorta carry on. And tbh you've already kinda won anyways because you bought the land.

tanko

Do these bachelors carry hammers around with them by any chance??

tanko

tanko wrote: »

Do these bachelors carry hammers around with them by any chance??

A hammer is one thing, a teleporter is a different ballgame.

mick087

Go and talk to them compromise, find out what there issue is? Maybe your causing a lot of hasstle for them and you dont know or you think its not your concern. If you dont sort it it will lead to thousands legal fees and it still wont be sorted.
Dont let it develop to an episode Neighbours from Hell.

lab man

I've a funny feeling this is in mayo there was a vid on Facebook there a month ago with a confrontation
And if you want to know he can put a gate up every 9 feet if he wants to with a lock in each but he has to give you a key for each and you'll have to open and close each gate and lock them if he wants you only have a right of way trust me I know about them the expensive way

lalababa

You are in the wrong in both instances. And not closing the gate is just acting the b#llocks. Cop yourselfs on and close the gate and don't put debris on his property, and start apologizing and be courteous in future.

Turbohymac

Well you're digging your own grave by not respecting the old neighbor and his new gate by not bothering to close it..some of these older people are very set in their ways.. if you had engaged your brain first it wouldn't hurt to close this NEW gate for the time being ..ie very short term until you get absolute definition on the legality of this gate and even if its illegal for the old farmer to have this gate then there's a few different ways to proceed..personally I'd always try the peaceful approach..but clearly even without legal advice you have rubbed this elderly resident up the wrong way..it will now be much harder to rectify.. start by closing the gate..you don't own this yard it's only a right of way ..to date most of the wrongs and aggression have actually been created by you and your father's actions to steamroll over existing landowners and theres 3 sides to every story..yours..the old neighbor and then the actual truth..

Cupatae

David Hay wrote: »

Hi all I am just looking for some advise in dealing with nasty neighbours, I have recently purchased a 40 acre block of land and it’s the neighbouring bachelors farmers of this piece of land that are causing me hassle.

I have 20 acres for grazing and 20 kept in for silage, there is a right of way to the 20 acres for grazing that goes through one of these bachelors farmers (In his late 70’s) farmyard, he has recently erected a gate on the lane, which now means I have 2 gates/stops to make before entering my property, I know it’s killing him to see me using ‘his lane’ and he has erected this gate with the intention of causing me hassle, I don’t close the gate after me as I deem it illegal what he has done, he shouts and roars at me and my father for not closing the gate when we meet him on the lane. (Pure abuse ) regarding this neighbour would it just be best to contact my solicitor regarding the gate he put up? Any help or ideas on what we can do with the verbal abuse coming from him? I have refrained from up rooting it with loader at the minute.

I am also a public servant so I feel I am very limited in what I can do (I know what I would love to him hence the username:), I just feel he has been let away with to much, he was even telling my father that he was going to erect a cattle grid on the lane so we could even walk our cattle to the land.

Regarding the second bachelor (late 50’s/early 60’s) farmer we only had one serious run in with him last year on the 20 acre grazing side, last year we had a digger in putting in new gaps, general tidying up on the farm, Etc. my self and my father were putting up a new gate we came storming up our land, all guns blazing he was shouting and roaring at us because the digger has put some bushes on his wire, this was a very hostile situation only we are very reserved and I feel like I let him get away one up on us again and we just .took the abuse from him (we did fence the whole boundary later in the year ) we don’t really have much contact with this individual now but would it possible to take him to court/civil case against him just on the serious threatening abuse we received from him that day ?

The 2 bachelors would be best friends.
PS thanks for taking the time to read all this.

Have yeah tried asking em is there anyway ye can come to a mutual agreement and stop the nonsense? Ask em what the problem is and say your trying ur best to avoid any sort of conflict.

Fighting fire with fire in this case just leads to more fire and sorts nothing.

ruwithme

If their was never a 2nd gate on the right of way in the recent past, a land owner cannot suddenly decide to install one on it.

that would be prohibiting your right of way. if this is the case you are completely right to not close it.

i assume their is a 1st preexisting gate which i believe you are closing.

Op our country has quite a bit of this kinda story.would be helpful if there was some kind of adjudicator system on the ground in each county.

matters could be resolved helping people avoid yearly/daily annoyance.

Sheep breeder

ruwithme wrote: »

If their was never a 2nd gate on the right of way in the recent past, a land owner cannot suddenly decide to install one on it.

that would be prohibiting your right of way. if this is the case you are completely right to not close it.

i assume their is a 1st preexisting gate which i believe you are closing.

Op our country has quite a bit of this kinda story.would be helpful if there was some kind of adjudicator system on the ground in each county.

matters could be resolved helping people avoid yearly/daily annoyance.

Regarding putting up a gate, you are correct about prohibiting your right of way, there was a case a number of years ago about putting a gate on a right of way which end up in court and broke the man that put it up and he had to take it down due blocking and interfering with right to travel freely over his due right.
In the local gaa pitch there was an old man who had a walking right of way down The center of the pitch and out the front gate and he exercised it every Stephen day at 3 o’clock.

_Brian

I think maybe you’ve shown some level of disrespect to both of these men.

Did you stack bushes under top of fence wire ?? If so that’s very bad form.

Others have said above, the lane isn’t 50/50, it’s his lame and you have a right to pass through it. I don’t think that prohibits him having a gate on it. You constantly leaving gates open is a disrespect.

Even if this went to court your the one constantly opening and intentionally leaving open gates on a farm lane. ThatS not a good position to be defending.

Personally I always take an non confrontational position with my neighbors. Yes they can be assholes sometimes but your stuck with them and no sense making the situation worse.

Close the damn gate every time. As for the other chap. Don’t be disrespecting his property.

Pkiernan

The old git can't put up gates on the right of way if there wasn't one there before him.

I'd remove them without damaging them.

Kylta

No point in having bad neighbours, why don't you don't you try get on with them, and if there on the land a lot longer than you show them a bit of respect. In regards to the gate and badness, maybe your just paranoid. Better to get on and have good relations instead of going through all the crap an animosity. You might need their help someday in a emergency.

Grumpypants

Close the gate.
Don't throw stuff on his wire.

Problems solved.

If you threat people with such disregard don't moan when they give out.

Del2005

Pkiernan wrote: »

The old git can't put up gates on the right of way if there wasn't one there before him.

I'd remove them without damaging them.

Having friends close to the land is better than making an enemy. Plenty of stuff gets lifted from farms and animals can escape even with the best of fences , piss off the neighbours and they won't let you know if anything happens.

_Brian

Pkiernan wrote: »

The old git can't put up gates on the right of way if there wasn't one there before him.

I'd remove them without damaging them.

I thought it was locked gates that weren’t allowed.

JeffKenna

Pkiernan wrote: »

The old git can't put up gates on the right of way if there wasn't one there before him.

I'd remove them without damaging them.

He can, it's his land. He does have to supply a key if the gates have a lock however.

patsy_mccabe

I know of a case that went the whole way to the high court and I know both families.

Cattlepen

David Hay wrote: »

Regarding the bushes, I had a contractor in doing the job, they were not put on his wire by me (which was rectified after).

Interesting regarding the gate, but in my view it was put up there in badness, ie when previous owner had it - no gate, I buy it and then a gate is put up.

I do have some sympathy for you but it would seem apparent that you are agitating on a certain level yourself. The contractor was under your instructions or should have been and not allowed to act recklessly. This you know well and cannot act innocent to. The man was entitled to have a bit of a tantrum by the sound of it even if it was rectified after. When it was rectified did you try to contact him to build a bridge? A peace offering maybe e.g a bottle of whiskey and shake hands.
The road you are thinking of going down will be expensive and pointless
I’ve been through this kind of situation and what worked out best was Gladstone’s quote about home rule “kill it with kindness “. Myself and the neighbours are the best of pals now

kollegeknight

What I can see: There are two separate things here.

1. Constant issue regarding a ROW

2. One off issue with fences and boundaries that was not dealt with.

My first advice, they will be your neighbours for a long time. Even after they are gone, your reputation as the bad neighbour could stay in their family.(from their viewpoint)

In the first instance, I would adhere to the closing of gates, and making sure I respect his land.

In the second, I would have apologised immediately, fixed and landed in with a voucher for local garage.

That may have solved the second issue and when the one was grousing to the other about you, farmer 2 may have said you were fair in the one interaction you had with him.

For the most part, I get on with my neighbours, some are very awkward. That was built on my father getting on with them for 70 years. You’ve to start sometime.

Unless you are equally stubborn as farmer 1 you will never beat him and there will be no worry about building houses on the land.

Buford T. Justice XIX

David, the first issue here is to find out if the first farmer has a right to put up a gate on the right of way. Your solicitor will find that out for you.

If he has the right to put up a gate then you will have to open and close it every time you go through it.

If he doesn't then you, and a witness, will have to go to the farmer in question and, very politely, explain that your solicitor says he doesn't have the right to erect a gate there and you would like it to be removed. If he refuses, then explain that you will open and close the gate as a courtesy and do not accept the gate as accepting his right to erect it. A bottle of (good) whiskey or some such as a token of respect might help a lot in this regard.

Unfortunately, if he refuses, it starts getting messy and will cost a lot of money to rectify.

The second farmer, well he's right, 100%. You need to head over to his farm, again with a bottle of whiskey and a witness, and offer it and your apology to the man and an assurance that it won't happen again.

I can't help feeling that you've gotten off to a bad start with your new neighbours, partly through your own fault, and it will take a lot of time and patience to get back on level ground here.

Rights and everything associated with it kinda fade into the background when you will have a good number of years having to work beside neighbours who have little time for you.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

David, the first issue here is to find out if the first farmer has a right to put up a gate on the right of way. Your solicitor will find that out for you.

If he has the right to put up a gate then you will have to open and close it every time you go through it.

If he doesn't then you, and a witness, will have to go to the farmer in question and, very politely, explain that your solicitor says he doesn't have the right to erect a gate there and you would like it to be removed. If he refuses, then explain that you will open and close the gate as a courtesy and do not accept the gate as accepting his right to erect it. A bottle of (good) whiskey or some such as a token of respect might help a lot in this regard.

Unfortunately, if he refuses, it starts getting messy and will cost a lot of money to rectify.

The second farmer, well he's right, 100%. You need to head over to his farm, again with a bottle of whiskey and a witness, and offer it and your apology to the man and an assurance that it won't happen again.

I can't help feeling that you've gotten off to a bad start with your new neighbours, partly through your own fault, and it will take a lot of time and patience to get back on level ground here.

Rights and everything associated with it kinda fade into the background when you will have a good number of years having to work beside neighbours who have little time for you.

If it were me, I'd do farmer 2 first. It's and easy win and give it a few days to talk to farmer 1. Hopefully they'll have had a chat in the meantime about the lad who apologised and gave him a present.

lakill Farm

my 2 cents

I would hate if David hay was my neighbour

Damaging fencing and leaving gates open with possibility livestock could travel to a busy road . And he inst a wet week in the place.

Feisar

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

David, the first issue here is to find out if the first farmer has a right to put up a gate on the right of way. Your solicitor will find that out for you.

If he has the right to put up a gate then you will have to open and close it every time you go through it.

If he doesn't then you, and a witness, will have to go to the farmer in question and, very politely, explain that your solicitor says he doesn't have the right to erect a gate there and you would like it to be removed. If he refuses, then explain that you will open and close the gate as a courtesy and do not accept the gate as accepting his right to erect it. A bottle of (good) whiskey or some such as a token of respect might help a lot in this regard.

Unfortunately, if he refuses, it starts getting messy and will cost a lot of money to rectify.

The second farmer, well he's right, 100%. You need to head over to his farm, again with a bottle of whiskey and a witness, and offer it and your apology to the man and an assurance that it won't happen again.

I can't help feeling that you've gotten off to a bad start with your new neighbours, partly through your own fault, and it will take a lot of time and patience to get back on level ground here.

Rights and everything associated with it kinda fade into the background when you will have a good number of years having to work beside neighbours who have little time for you.

The powers of an ould bottle can work wonders in softening lads up!

orchard farm

As far as the gate goes hes 100% allowed to do this,if he puts a lock on it he must give you a key. Keep his gates closed

solerina

The landowner is perfectly entitled to put up gates as long as long as they can be opened (or give you a key to any locks), you have a right to pass over the land, not to interfere in anyway with it, close the gate and be thankful that he doesn’t put up a few more gates.

minerleague

I cant believe the tone of most of the posts here, the landowner has no right to interfere with the established use of the right of way by putting up a new gate ( there may be valid reasons for a gate < robberies or dumping in the area > but the least he should do is consult with any users of the right of way. OP pay no heed to the snide " the Field" comments this is a legal dispute same as two neighbours in suburban dublin falling out over party walls etc. As for bushes falling on fence, this will happen with the best will in the world and no problems landowner being angry if they were left like that for some time but to come out immediately shouting ( op words ) is not on either. OP deal with the gate as soon as possible, legally and with garda witness as required. finally keep your whiskey for yourself

TheW1zard

Theres another law, the law OF THE LAND

copperhead

from the get go you have obviously got he auld lads back up
if i bought land where the only access was a right of way , id be down with a bottle of wiskey in me hand asap to introduce meself and ask the man the lye of the land, eg i will be passing up and down the lane every now and again in the tractor if theres ever anything i can give you a hand with dont be afraid to stop me etc.
next thing you should do is go and appoligise to the two men for getting off on the wrong foot and put things right, it will make your life a hell of a lot easirer in the years to come,
just my opinion

Pkiernan

Whats with the victim blaming ?

The old goat of a pissant farmer is completely in the wrong erecting g unnecessary gates.

Just acting the maggot.

Welding Rod

copperhead wrote: »

from the get go you have obviously got he auld lads back up
if i bought land where the only access was a right of way , id be down with a bottle of wiskey in me hand asap to introduce meself and ask the man the lye of the land, eg i will be passing up and down the lane every now and again in the tractor if theres ever anything i can give you a hand with dont be afraid to stop me etc.
next thing you should do is go and appoligise to the two men for getting off on the wrong foot and put things right, it will make your life a hell of a lot easirer in the years to come,
just my opinion

Exactly. And give him a hand unannounced with drawing in his bales ..... it’s a great way to meet the neighbours and have a bit of craic I find.
This farming lark, can be tough enough at times, without the added burden of falling out with neighbours. Life is way, way too short for that carry on.

copperhead

Pkiernan wrote: »

Whats with the victim blaming ?

The old goat of a pissant farmer is completely in the wrong erecting g unnecessary gates.

Just acting the maggot.

no no no
the man is entitled to put a gate on his lane, maybe he has been thinking about it for years, some johnny come lately then decides he dosnt like having to close gates and leaves them open, thats the problem here
the op mentioned he was going to put animals in one of the fields i wonder how he would feel if his gate was been constantly left opened
as for the other farmer wait until you are an older person and put up a fence or possibly pay for someone to come in and do it for you only to have someone to cover it .
the op is in the wrong here and by the talks of him going to take legal action etc i very much doubt he is going to make his or his neighbours life any easier

screamer

You have a right of way as in he can’t stop you accessing your land via his, but he can add gates or whatever he wants, it’s his land. Not closing the gate will just make things worse. TBH you do sound like you don’t really care what effect your actions has on your neighbours, do be prepared for the animosity to escalate. I’d be inclined to make peace with them have a chat, apologise if you pissed them off and try to have an amicable relationship. Otherwise, sell the land out to them. Either way, your current approach is going to bring you nothing only grief.